Logging Out - Expermimental Branch 114782

[execpro22 128]

you don't get it. the guy won't log - which means he doesn't combat log, which means, regardless of the player's intent, the mechanic worked.

 

do you want to punish people for their thoughts, or their actions?

 

 

 

Oh I "get it"

 

 

You think the fact that because you stayed in the game and changed your mind on logging only because you were "caught" that somehow makes it better.

 

 

 

What you don't get is that Rocket wants the system to punish you for making a bad decision such as logging in  a firefight.

 

 

Why should you be able to weasle out a making a bad decision in DAYZ?

 

 

 

Again Dayz is all about making those Life or death decisions and seeing them through to the bitter end.

[GrumpyFragger 67]

you don't get it. the guy won't log - which means he doesn't combat log, which means, regardless of the player's intent, the mechanic worked.

 

do you want to punish people for their thoughts, or their actions?

 

wrong, he wants to combatlog with the option that when on his way out a gun points on him he is able to cancel and gets a 2nd chance.

Edited January 30, 2014 by GrumpyFragger

[Zombie Jesus 723]

So how exactly does you getting into a firefight and logging out and leaving an avatar behind for 30 seconds, prevent you from logging out?  If you can see someone running up to you, and get away to talk about it, you deserve to.  If the person coming up to you is that bad, they shouldn't have been able to kill you, because you logged out, and left your body behind for 30 seconds.  Are you serious with that?  You really think that's the better way?  That person coming up to you SHOULD be able to just risk-free kill you?  Surely that's not what you actually believe.

 

Maybe you play as John Rambo and that is fine but if I know someone is in a building I might take more than 30 seconds to gauge the situation and put myself in a good position to kill them. So for your first part yes I could easily lay down cover fire, retreat, and then hope the person approaches with caution to be met by an empty room. 

 

Your second part of course I deserve to die for logging out while in combat. If you do not agree your real beef is with risk and the game in general. 

[Bubbajones 238]

wrong, he wants to combatlog with the option that when on his way out a gun points on him he is able to cancel and gets a 2nd chance.

 

and again... if he changes his mind, he never left - thus the mechanic worked?

 

and besides, if it is during a combat situation (and it won't always be) , he will be in a sitting position with no weapon and it takes at least 3-4 seconds to stand up again and draw a gun....does he really have a second chance?

[Bubbajones 238]

i think some of you guys need to take off the tinfoil hats and, using the doll, show the doctor where the bad man touched you....

[HazZarD87 166]

Again. The mechanic punishes for logging out in a dangerous situation. Log out in your secluded camp in the woods and you'll be perfectly fine. There is no reason to dislike this unless you use logging out as your way to survive risky situations. AKA combat loggers

[Bubbajones 238]

Again. The mechanic punishes for logging out in a dangerous situation. Log out in your secluded camp in the woods and you'll be perfectly fine. There is no reason to dislike this unless you use logging out as your way to survive risky situations. AKA combat loggers

 

 

i don't dislike it at all. i am looking forward to the rain of delicious tears from the people who log in dead going WTF? 

 

Only issue is if you log out (legitimately) and log back in the next day dead... how are you going to know it it was a player or dayz that killed you?

[frosti 2165]

i don't dislike it at all. i am looking forward to the rain of delicious tears from the people who log in dead going WTF? 

 

Only issue is if you log out (legitimately) and log back in the next day dead... how are you going to know it it was a player or dayz that killed you?

 

Maybe in future we wil be able to read a log if we were not killed by player inflicted damage but by server error/zombie.

 

Why not read a log when a player kill you? Becouse it would be exploitable to know that player was/were there.

[alaskafish (DayZ) 26]

It seems as though we are getting our first tastes of preventing combat logging in Standalone.  However, what the dev team has proposed for the next experimental branch/planned patch, is NOT beneficial to anyone besides KOS bandits.  I'm mostly referring to the change they made with avatars logging out.  In the next experimental branch, Rocket said that AFTER you log out your character will sit down and remain in game for 30 seconds.  If I misinterpreted this, please disregard this post.

 

 

This should be the exact opposite, you should have to be able to sit down FOR 30 seconds, in a safe location, BEFORE you can log out.  EQ1 used to have the same log out procedure, and it was integral to survival in the end-game.  To clear raid mob aggro, you had to zone out, or log out of the zone and character completely.  Once you did this, anything you had attacked or was coming after you, would stop doing so.  I believe this is what Rocket and Co are trying to set up, however, they're doing it the opposite way.

 

With their current design, you still "need" 30 seconds of safety to effectively log out with no risk.  However, with the current system, the 30 seconds you have to "wait" or "need" are AFTER you have any chance to make a decision or put up a fight.  Currently, someone could log out in a "safe" area, only to have someone server hop, or just log into their server, right at their location, and kill them, completely defenselessly.  If the system were set-up to be closer to the mod version of a log out timer, it would be much better for the players.  The current set up benefits bandits and handicaps defenseless players done with their session, in the most extreme disfavor.  If the log out system could be changed, so that like EQ1, your character must: F3 and sit, be seated for 30 seconds, and then after 30 seconds of being seated, when pressing ESC and accessing the menu, they will be able to click "Exit/log out".

Now!!  On the flipside!!! If someone DOES NOT wait and sit for 30 seconds and Alt+F4s, THAT'S when their avatar should stick around for 30+ seconds in game.   Now THAT would be a log out system.  For players combat logging, in the most textbook definition, they got shot at and know they can't find somewhere to hide to sit down for 30 seconds, so they just Alt+F4; their avatar would instantly stop and be stuck in game for another 30-60 seconds.  In all honesty, if someone combat logs like that with Alt+F4, I think it would be a great idea to have their character start making the in-pain noises.  That way if they did manage to find a hiding spot, but chose not to take the 30 second chance wait, they would be stuck in game and would be making noise for the pursuing players/zombies to hear and find them.

 

So far everything's been tracking well, and to be honest, this is the first actual developmental aspect of the game that I have seen that I think is going in the wrong direction.  The currently proposed log out system will greatly benefit bandits and leave survivors completely defenseless, AFTER they have left the game.  If the system were set up to be Sit for 30 seconds, and THEN you can log out, at least then the player would stand a chance to protect themselves if something dangerous presented itself within that 30 second window.  With the current system, the player will  never have any idea something dangerous came along, because they'll log back in dead.  This would also pose issues for reporting random character loss from the database, if people die when they're logged out, they'll have no idea if their character got randomly wiped, or if they died while they were logged out sitting down for 30 seconds.

 

TL;DR - read the bold sections.

 

Should be both. 

 

Sit down for 30 seconds, logout, character stays on server for another 30 seconds. You can't connect to another server in those 30 seconds. Stops combat logging, ghosting, and some server hopping.

[autoloon 285]

Now that all is revealed of the new measures I could not be happier.

Literally anyone trying to complain about the husk timer is a combat logger. It's a perfect system.

[GrumpyFragger 67]

i think some of you guys need to take off the tinfoil hats and, using the doll, show the doctor where the bad man touched you....

 

Its more like the OP is in fear to get touched by the bad man, the chances the bad man finds me in my bush on a 225km² wide map with my pants down are slim to none while the OP (combat)logging on the hospital roof in Elektro may not be that safe from the bad mans itchy fingers :D

[Dr. Goner 661]

i don't dislike it at all. i am looking forward to the rain of delicious tears from the people who log in dead going WTF? 

 

Only issue is if you log out (legitimately) and log back in the next day dead... how are you going to know it it was a player or dayz that killed you?

 

What about the countless amount of other scenarios that could happen?

 

What if your buddy watches your back while you log out and it's perfectly fine?

 

What if some dude tries to log out when you legitimately surprise him looting a barrack and you smoke him and take his stuff?

 

What about the hundreds of times you log out in the woods and nothing bad happens at all?

 

What about the fact that Rocket has already mentioned a different system that will be enabled after tents and camps are set up?

 

What about the game being in alpha?

 

What about the fact that this solution deals with one of the number one complaints that people have about DayZ?

[blindwuzi 37]

True...McG2 I think we all understand the flaws of your ideas for the fix and the flaws of the fix currently being implemented. You can list hypothetical scenarios that show what's "wrong" with both ideas.

However, what rockets intentions are that you log out in a "safe" place. That means running for 10-15 min in the middle of no where, to log out, in a spot where no one has the slightest chance of finding you. Just like you would in real life if you were to find a place to sleep. Any place different is the risk you take.

[moparspanky 9]

I think having the option to cancel the log out (ie. being in game during the log out timer) would be nice, however I don't think it will personally effect me in any material way to be out of game for those 30 seconds, as I always find a safe place to log out anyway, for the obvious reason that I don't want to come back in-game in a potentially dangerous situation.

[weedmasta 784]

Naw, the way they are doing it is the right way, well at least the right direction. Eve Online does this in a similar fashion.  When you log out without any aggro in space you remain in space for about 30-60 seconds after doing an emergency warp. Besides I don't think you can make a system where the game can differentiate between logging off normally and logging off with Alt+F4 or killing the game from the task manager.

 

Also for those of you who are saying "Yea what if a guy sees me going into a bush and thinks I am logging off, stalks me and kills me while I can't do anything about it",,,well then it wasn't a safe spot now was it?

[ChiefMasterKush 321]

 

Besides I don't think you can make a system where the game can differentiate between logging off normally and logging off with Alt+F4 or killing the game from the task manager.

You mean like a countdown?  Starting at 30 going to zero.  When at Zero does not leave your character in game any longer, if not at zero leave character in game for 30 seconds.

 

 

Also for those of you who are saying "Yea what if a guy sees me going into a bush and thinks I am logging off, stalks me and kills me while I can't do anything about it",,,well then it wasn't a safe spot now was it?

Nope, but you'd have the chance to be able to do something about it.

Edited January 30, 2014 by ChiefMasterKush

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

Wow, this log out system blows. As a player that cares more about surviving than death matching, I'm gonna have some interesting words from the wife/daughter while trying to find the perfect place to log out lol.

 

That said, I am not a combat logger, never have, never will, I just don't understand why we all need to be treated like one. I guess Rockets vision for this game really is a giant death match, oh well.

 

Regards.

[Window Licker 504]

Hi.

 

Wow, this log out system blows. As a player that cares more about surviving than death matching, I'm gonna have some interesting words from the wife/daughter while trying to find the perfect place to log out lol.

 

That said, I am not a combat logger, never have, never will, I just don't understand why we all need to be treated like one. I guess Rockets vision for this game really is a giant death match, oh well.

 

Regards.

That's just confusing can you please #sarcasm and #serious cos I'm not sure whats where.

Hi.

Wow, this log out system blows #sarcasm. As a player that cares more about surviving than death matching #serious , I'm gonna have some interesting words from the wife/daughter while trying to find the perfect place to log out #superserious lol.

That said, I am not a combat logger , never have, never will,#serious I just don't understand why we all need to be treated like one #sarcasm. I guess Rockets vision for this game really is a giant death match, oh well #supersarcasm.

Regards.

sorry to deface your post like.

[Capo 323]

 

 

if you log out in a "safe location" and someone spawns next to you or can easily find you without knowing where you are, its probably not that safe.

 

this basically. 

[bigfrak 116]

Here is my thing the only people who have to worrie about being killed in that 30sec should be combat loggers, bc there the ones that will log in danger, the rest of us..... well i know i do, i always log off some where safe, not talking about in a house or in a town im talking safe like way the hell in the woods, and all rdy wait for like 1min to see if i have been followed than log, thats all you have to do and you will be good. But i see points on both sides but dont think it is the end of the world, just play it safe and hide your ass thats all

[GrumpyFragger 67]

Hi.

 

Wow, this log out system blows. As a player that cares more about surviving than death matching, I'm gonna have some interesting words from the wife/daughter while trying to find the perfect place to log out lol.

 

That said, I am not a combat logger, never have, never will, I just don't understand why we all need to be treated like one. I guess Rockets vision for this game really is a giant death match, oh well.

 

Regards.

 

I guess the players that have to listen to their wifes and dauthers right in the moment when bullets zipping in their direction is by a huge margin in the minority so its unlucky for you but a long needed step in the right direction.

[BCKane 5]

I understand why people don't like ghosting, i don't do it and never even think of doing it while playing ... but in true Dayz fashion ... isn't it the players fault if they get killed by a ghoster for staying in the same position for so long and camping that spot? I know i'm causing trouble, but after so many "deal with it" responses and the automatic assumption that anyone who doesn't like this change opposes it because they only log to ghost, then wouldn't it be reasonable to state that only people who are campers have trouble with ghosters?  I personally move every time i fire my weapon so that people can't get a bead on where i'm at, am i doing it wrong?   :D 

[dodas 47]

This is the only way to do it ,so or you find a really safe place to logout and deal with it or you cry about it ,they disable this feature but ....you mustn't complain ever again about combat loggers ,ok? The only thing that is a problem with this is the timer which can be changed anytime easy.

 

Edit: the system cannot understand if you log out normally or you alt-f4. Thats why this is the best idea

Edited January 31, 2014 by Polyandras

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

It seems as though we are getting our first tastes of preventing combat logging in Standalone.  However, what the dev team has proposed for the next experimental branch/planned patch, is NOT beneficial to anyone besides KOS bandits.  I'm mostly referring to the change they made with avatars logging out.  In the next experimental branch, Rocket said that AFTER you log out your character will sit down and remain in game for 30 seconds.  If I misinterpreted this, please disregard this post.

 

 

This should be the exact opposite, you should have to be able to sit down FOR 30 seconds, in a safe location, BEFORE you can log out.  EQ1 used to have the same log out procedure, and it was integral to survival in the end-game.  To clear raid mob aggro, you had to zone out, or log out of the zone and character completely.  Once you did this, anything you had attacked or was coming after you, would stop doing so.  I believe this is what Rocket and Co are trying to set up, however, they're doing it the opposite way.

 

With their current design, you still "need" 30 seconds of safety to effectively log out with no risk.  However, with the current system, the 30 seconds you have to "wait" or "need" are AFTER you have any chance to make a decision or put up a fight.  Currently, someone could log out in a "safe" area, only to have someone server hop, or just log into their server, right at their location, and kill them, completely defenselessly.  If the system were set-up to be closer to the mod version of a log out timer, it would be much better for the players.  The current set up benefits bandits and handicaps defenseless players done with their session, in the most extreme disfavor.  If the log out system could be changed, so that like EQ1, your character must: F3 and sit, be seated for 30 seconds, and then after 30 seconds of being seated, when pressing ESC and accessing the menu, they will be able to click "Exit/log out".

Now!!  On the flipside!!! If someone DOES NOT wait and sit for 30 seconds and Alt+F4s, THAT'S when their avatar should stick around for 30+ seconds in game.   Now THAT would be a log out system.  For players combat logging, in the most textbook definition, they got shot at and know they can't find somewhere to hide to sit down for 30 seconds, so they just Alt+F4; their avatar would instantly stop and be stuck in game for another 30-60 seconds.  In all honesty, if someone combat logs like that with Alt+F4, I think it would be a great idea to have their character start making the in-pain noises.  That way if they did manage to find a hiding spot, but chose not to take the 30 second chance wait, they would be stuck in game and would be making noise for the pursuing players/zombies to hear and find them.

 

So far everything's been tracking well, and to be honest, this is the first actual developmental aspect of the game that I have seen that I think is going in the wrong direction.  The currently proposed log out system will greatly benefit bandits and leave survivors completely defenseless, AFTER they have left the game.  If the system were set up to be Sit for 30 seconds, and THEN you can log out, at least then the player would stand a chance to protect themselves if something dangerous presented itself within that 30 second window.  With the current system, the player will  never have any idea something dangerous came along, because they'll log back in dead.  This would also pose issues for reporting random character loss from the database, if people die when they're logged out, they'll have no idea if their character got randomly wiped, or if they died while they were logged out sitting down for 30 seconds.

 

TL;DR - read the bold sections.

No this process is fine.

Just log out somewhere safe, in a bush away from loot, not right on top of a hot spot. The solution they came up with is the simplest and more egalitarian one that completely eliminate any potential for abuse.

 

I'd say 30 seconds is VERY generous, I'm in favor of 15 minutes, which was the standard on ultima online.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[fitzee 248]

I guess the players that have to listen to their wifes and dauthers right in the moment when bullets zipping in their direction is by a huge margin in the minority so its unlucky for you but a long needed step in the right direction.

 

HaHa. Yea I get it. Somebody doesn't like the way its implemented means he must be a logger. Are you really that brain numb? I've been playing this game engine since 2001, trust me, there is nothing hard about killing people. Especially the typical DayZ crowd 3PP players who can't figure out why they shoot the ground when prone :D

 

I just don't understand why they can't come up with a system that flags people that are actually in combat, instead of just assuming everybody is. It will truely suck losing a 6 month old character because you didn't have time to go deep enough into the woods or some shit, before logging out. If your goal in DayZ was to survive a long time, rather than death match in elektro you might actually understand my point of view.

 

Regards.