What Alpha Is Supposed To Be (A Discussion On Dev Direction And If The Game Will Ever Be Completed)

[Soupee 57]

I will point out I completely sidestepped your flame at the beginning and discussed industry trends on early access ie Alpha and the pros and cons. I then posted about getting free press being smart and anyone who is not completely devoid of economic sense can see why developers need good press in this circumstance. Then I posted about the concept of concurrent development since you found it so absurd that a shotgun and spray paint can be added before major bug fixes. 

 

 

I'm not a game developer, but I'm an engineer and work on some pretty large projects.  There's a bunch wrong with adding in things at times.  First, which affects the player base the most in terms of "anger" is perception.  I feel like maybe the team is working on giving people tidbits (new guns, clothes, spray cans, etc) because the bigger milestones are so far away.  And possibly even the bug fixes are so far away.  So instead of letting it appear that the game isn't "moving forward" the team drops these small bread crumbs in an attempt to make it appear the game is progressing in development.  And from a player's perspective, new guns makes it look like the game is going somewhere... when in reality it's a new model and some attribute tweaks for the most part. 

 

Second is it can certainly add in ADDITIONAL bugs, without a stable "start up, run around, grab loot, shoot zombies" base, every minor change can break things that are currently unbroken.  I understand that major bug fixes and item additions are two different teams.  But in many many ways they can actually work against each other unintentionally.  Especially if both teams are allowed to basically work in a "bubble".  Any time the team touches something they should really test it through at least its sphere of influence.  For instance, painting the Mosin and not at least making sure it still shoots is pretty ham-handed.  It would be like repairing a traffic light and walking away as soon as you saw that the green light worked.  You really need to watch it cycle fully at the very least.  Then let the alpha testing public do it 10,000 times and see if there's any odd one-off bugs you need to fix.  I don't care what state the game is in, the folks playing an Alpha shouldn't be the first ones to find out a gun doesn't shoot after you paint it when it's one of the biggest "features" added in a patch.

 

 

It has little priority. I would actually find it odd if they had tested it instead of more important things. Why waste time on a low priority feature, when the community can help test it instead?

 

Completely false for reasons stated above.  If the low priority feature is such a low priority that you can't even make sure the item still works at its most basic level (gun loads and fires) once you've used the new feature on it... then it isn't high enough priority to even consider adding at that time.  Like I said, it's ham-handed.  But it is a learning experience (I hope).

 

To a certain extent it feels like the DayZ team is still learning exactly what it means to make a full game.  Like I said, I'm not a game developer, but I work on large projects and there is a big learning curve on your first/early attempts at anything.  And let's not lose sight of the fact that DayZ is a very ambitious project.  It isn't like they're making some cookie cutter game like many of the major titles around these days.

 

A lot of this may be driven by the amount of interaction that Dean had with the community from the beginning.  Truthfully, when he started the mod he wasn't really dissimilar to many of us in the community.  So I think he had that connection with the players that few game-makers do.  That is very much a two edged sword.  While it's great that he has that background, it may also be detrimental when the player in him wants to see something new or progress.

 

Whenever I modify a multimillion dollar piece of equipment the focus is always "let's get it running like it was when we started".  Then we can talk about adding all the nice-to-do's and making improvements.  To implement or focus on anything other than core functionality at this point feels like a bit of a folly.

 

Disclaimer: The above is my opinion/experience... not intended to accuse BI, Dean "Rocket" Hall, or any of the dev team of anything.  :)

Edited January 29, 2014 by Soupee

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

As a fellow developer of AAA titles, an own company and billions and billions of dollars, I wanted to make my own concerns heard as well as those of my dogs and my hamsters, but honestly these following sentences are made up just by me. If you don't believe me, I have a GameDev Tycoon save that will show you. And it sounds better, when I say that I speak for other people.

And I have no problem, getting the pizza served as long as there are no anchovys on it.

 

I believe that one of the three things happened to you:

 

1) You ARE a developer that developed a "AAA" title, but discovered that your headtorch needs 9V and not AAAs so you failed hard and millions of dollars are gone now, as is your job, because the title you were in charge of, was put on hiatus forever. We "fanboys" label that "butthurt", biblereaders have recently discovered that the reason for this is most of the times envy. And no developer speaks of "development hell"...wait...Sergey, is that you?

 

2) You are drunk, high or in another way non compos mentis and have lost your direction in life or are a troll.

 

3) You are some kind of troll or have the name Sergey. Probably both (Not likely).

 

What this post means to be

 

Typically a post in a forum has a question, something to start a discussion or want present an opinion. When enough people are interested, some will comment on it (normally by saying "Alpha", which is slang for: "Oh my god, use your brain you are not a goddamn zombie").

Nothing of your post is in any way helpful, asking or even useful for a discussion, it's just starting a flamewar and makes people cry. You made peoply CRY! Are you happy now?

 

The Evidence

 

Pizza, rumors and opinions presented as "Evidence", Tears.

 

If that is not an evidence for bringing absolute bullshit up, I don't know what it is. I have read an seemingless endless amount of posts about how you spread useless bullshit all over the forum. And when speaking to my fish he keeps blubbing.

 

 

Not Listening To The Community

 

Sergey, I mean, the OP, states over and over again that he would listen to the community. There are two problems that I've already found with this.

 

1) He has been told 512 times (I counted it, 511 times I did say it while writing the post) to please don't  bring up rumors as facts and evidence, but he still did it

 

2) He doesn't answer all of the people that answered him, not even the people that only came here, thought "tl;dr" and wrote "Alpha"

 

Empty Promises/No Sense

 

You promised a discussion. It didn't happen while I was writing this post (...wait for him to get the analogy...). And open words but instead it was just whining and spreading fear. You know which political party also was successfull with spreading fear amongst the people? The Nazis. Is that an evidence, that you are one? I'd think not...

 

As a point that's a bit off topic: If you don't undertand why this post is the way it is, go back and read the OP post one more time, I'll wait here.

 

 

To the OP: I like it when people are using their brain and think critically and question things. But (and this is important) the way you did it was just not correct. Empty words and propaganda, rumors and opinions sold as evidence. I just want you to think critically - something you can obviously do - about your own post and the things you write. - because maybe people believe what they read and in that case you don't want something written in such a wrong way.

 

Yes, I DO have concerns regarding DayZ and I understand yours. I just can't stand the way you brought them up.

Edited January 29, 2014 by LaughingJack

[OrLoK 16182]

<snip>

 

To the OP: I like it when people are using their brain and think critically and question things. But (and this is important) the way you did it was just not correct. Empty words and propaganda, rumors and opinions sold as evidence. I just want you to think critically - something you can obviously do - about your own post and the things you write. - because maybe people believe what they read and in that case you don't want something written in such a wrong way.

 

Yes, I DO have concerns regarding DayZ and I understand yours. I just can't stand the way you brought them up.

Hello there

 

Perhaps I should have been less bitey and phrased my issues like the last section of the post above.

 

Whilst im not fond of the "hilarious" parody post Jack makes a sound point.

 

We ALL have concerns and issues to a degree, it was the way you flew in and stated falsehoods as certain fact, did rile me. 

 

So apologies for my harshness, but no apologies for the argument.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[louist 163]

It has little priority. I would actually find it odd if they had tested it instead of more important things. Why waste time on a low priority feature, when the community can help test it instead?

Lets step back a bit and look at it.

No new feature consisting of new code, would be implemented without some cursory internal testing. Priorities or no, when you write up code for a new aspect of a program with the intent to publish, you also do a quick test to make sure it works. To not do that check is worse than laziness, it's negligence. This is true of both large and small teams.

Now, lets look at the spray can feature itself. a player using the spray can itself both removes and creates items. A problem in either of those steps could constitute a fairly major bug: if the gun disappears but doesn't reappear, the backlash would be loud and constant, and this would generate bad press. If the gun didn't disappear but a new one was spawned, you'd have created a new duping exploit. Those are two serious problems that could very easily be avoided by a ten second check to see that using spray can on a gun does indeed remove it, and does indeed spawn in the painted variant. I don't doubt some one completed that step. But again, I find it odd that the se dev didn't pick up what he had spawned and made sure it behaved as it should. It would have taken him or her just a few seconds. And if it didn't work, don't publish it and leave it for later.

The potential problems asside, this isn't really the sort of bug you would leave for the community. This is a quick check of the fundamental workings of a small bit of code, and the number of checks you would need to do, is test the number of colours on the number of paintable objects. There aren't many. This isn't a new food item or weapon, which slot into existing (and largely working systems), which may have some odd bugs that aren't immediately apparent, and which testing the various variables of constitutes a fair amount of time. This is a small, almost closed system of which testing would take moments, and using mechanics which, if not working as intended, would have fairly major repercussions.

As for priorities, let me counter that by agreeing with you. It is a low priority feature. No one was clamoring for it. I'd doesn't address any problem, or have any immediate necessity. It isn't something that fleshes out the core mechanics and systems. It isn't even adding content to those areas that could use some fleshing out. It is purely a "cool" but largely pointless novelty. So, you're right, there are way more important things to work on. My question is then: so why were they working on it at all?

[jovlon 32]

Hello there

 

Perhaps I should have been less bitey and phrased my issues like the last section of the post above.

 

Whilst im not fond of the "hilarious" parody post Jack makes a sound point.

 

We ALL have concerns and issues to a degree, it was the way you flew in and stated falsehoods as certain fact, did rile me. 

 

So apologies for my harshness, but no apologies for the argument.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

I was going to only pm you to resolve this. I "retired" because I needed to step out of the situation to gain a fresh and less aggressive perspective on this thread. I'm sorry if doing so disappointed you somehow. And I talked down only to those that attacked and talked down to me first. Yet you're making it seem like I'm the only guilty party as usual. How would that not frustrate any person.

 

And I can agree with Jack outside of the nazi joke. That is the most offensive thing you could say. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I didn't mean to accuse or state fact. The reason that some people, especially those in RL understood what I was getting at is because I think that perhaps they got that I was making the general point that there appears to be internal mismanagement. I only offered up three scenarios that happen commonly when it comes to any multi-million dollar media project without thinking anything of it. Because I wanted to make a general point of mismanagement. 

 

The evidence was meant to show why I'm concerned. That there are lofty goals with an extremely ambitious time frame. That they've committed to attempting to have rather quick updates. Each update will cause expected behaviors and unexpected behaviors when it comes to gameplay. The interaction with an object could completely change as was the case with the spray can being introduced.

 

I meant to make the point that they should slow down not speed up. But that if they decide to go on this pace that they'd almost have to go into crunch time often to ensure a successful rollout. There actions haven't matched what they're aiming to do thus far which is implement huge features in a functional and stable way in a short amount of time. Somehow that morphed into I wanted them to implement everything more quickly when the most critical point that I'd made was just the opposite.

 

And that I wanted them to read every single post and implement every single thing that every single poster asked for in the community. Do you honestly think that I was saying that? Come on now. If this thread shows anything, it's that we all agree that even at the present $30 was worth it because even in it's current version it's fun. But the community has also voiced concerns over this and that. I think that as we're satisfied with the game currently they shouldn't attempt to pump out updates that will produce unpredictable behaviors but that they should slow the updates and release major stable updates. 

 

As other's have pointed out it appears that the updates are being rolled out without being tested or reviewed and that at a few moments the devs appear to be out of touch with how these updates are functioning in-game. That's not to say that they aren't aware about some of these things. But that does worry me about internal organization and mismanagement. 

 

People have said that I'm bitter from my experience. I brought it up to make the point that I know what it's like to go from a smaller team to having more heads under the hood sort of speak. Yes it's only been released for a month but you must know that they've been working on it much longer. At this point it still from the outside it feels like they're still trying to define roles within the team. Dean has a vision that he's pushing in public but how much power has he been given to drive that vision as an example. 

 

This was and still is viewed by many as being the type of game that could further empower the indie movement. And that's why it's become such a topic around the development community. We want it to succeed (again somehow people have gotten the opposite impression and for that I'm sorry). But we also understand that you must have strong internal management and organization especially when you know that you aren't going to a major company backing you with more money. As stated they'll still get some new players here and there but I'd guess that most of the players that were going to purchase the game (even those that haven't bothered to play it yet) have. The resources (money, etc.) that they have right now is what they will likely have moving forward. So it concerns me and others that I've talked to that even after working on the project for some time now, they don't seem to have a clear focus on what they'd like to do, how they want to develop, and the realistic pace at which they should develop this game. 

 

Yes they could implement a lot of features quickly, go into beta before they should, and be in bug hell for months or even years (we all know those games that just never seemed to fix their bugs even years after implementing cool things) or they could slow down and get this thing right. 

 

I hope that you better understand where I'm coming from now. 

Edited January 29, 2014 by jovlon

[weedmasta 784]

 

Lets step back a bit and look at it.

No new feature consisting of new code, would be implemented without some cursory internal testing. Priorities or no, when you write up code for a new aspect of a program with the intent to publish, you also do a quick test to make sure it works. To not do that check is worse than laziness, it's negligence. This is true of both large and small teams.

Now, lets look at the spray can feature itself. a player using the spray can itself both removes and creates items. A problem in either of those steps could constitute a fairly major bug: if the gun disappears but doesn't reappear, the backlash would be loud and constant, and this would generate bad press. If the gun didn't disappear but a new one was spawned, you'd have created a new duping exploit. Those are two serious problems that could very easily be avoided by a ten second check to see that using spray can on a gun does indeed remove it, and does indeed spawn in the painted variant. I don't doubt some one completed that step. But again, I find it odd that the se dev didn't pick up what he had spawned and made sure it behaved as it should. It would have taken him or her just a few seconds. And if it didn't work, don't publish it and leave it for later.

The potential problems asside, this isn't really the sort of bug you would leave for the community. This is a quick check of the fundamental workings of a small bit of code, and the number of checks you would need to do, is test the number of colours on the number of paintable objects. There aren't many. This isn't a new food item or weapon, which slot into existing (and largely working systems), which may have some odd bugs that aren't immediately apparent, and which testing the various variables of constitutes a fair amount of time. This is a small, almost closed system of which testing would take moments, and using mechanics which, if not working as intended, would have fairly major repercussions.


As for priorities, let me counter that by agreeing with you. It is a low priority feature. No one was clamoring for it. I'd doesn't address any problem, or have any immediate necessity. It isn't something that fleshes out the core mechanics and systems. It isn't even adding content to those areas that could use some fleshing out. It is purely a "cool" but largely pointless novelty. So, you're right, there are way more important things to work on. My question is then: so why were they working on it at all?

 

 

That is a lot of whats and ifs. Also knowing the bugs and saying they would be easy to figure out and actually testing an item/feature without knowing about bugs or possible bugs are two completely different things. "What is the purpose of the item? To paint other items. Does it do this? Yes. Check. Next." is what I imagine went down, which is fine by me considering that this feature has very low priority.

 

Is it a major bug? Definitely not, as it isn't gamebreaking to the point that it hinders you from actually playing the game. I do however have the same question as you even though I do like the idea of painting items with the color I desire. Why work on something so trivial so early in the public alpha stage?

Edited January 29, 2014 by weedmasta

[shadowjack 254]

WORDS

 

I'd like to hear your feelings on this. 

 

A few points

 

You list 3 options - all very negative - this lack of objectivity shows your intent and pretty much negates anything you say.

 

Well i had a few points but after reading my first point there is no reason to continue.

[jovlon 32]

 

 I do however have the same question as you even though I do like the idea of painting items with the color I desire. Why work on something so trivial so early in the public alpha stage?

 

[louist 163]

If I had to guess, and guess is all I can do, I'd say that the spray cans were either a specific dev's pet project, or, as the OP suggests, it's nothing more than a popularizing feature--something to garner attention as a "cool" feature.

I don't dislike it, and I think it has a place in the game. But it is something that doesn't need to exist so early on, when so many things-so many fundamental and absolutely necessary things-are still absent or in the earliest stages of implementation.

We don't need little treats and placations. We're here (in theory) to test and give feedback. So I don't really understand the reasoning behind adding spray cans, or burlap hoods, or even radios at this point in development.

[Nebulae3 420]

I'm worried about Indie companies in general.. 

Are you people aware it takes like (4-5) years to develop a finished game like

Destiny, or Skyrim? And they have (400-500) employees?

So I don't expect much concerning development, fixes in future patches. 

 

However, I really like the game concept and it's exciting, well, somehow different to play

it compare to the same old pattern (wow style) set in stone type of mmo's.

And I welcome that alteration, so it will be interesting to follow the development.

 

Edit; I would like to mention something; it might seem harsh words, but reasonable and logic thoughts consider time scale on things, but even games like Skyrim was far from perfect. I remember the launch and it had its own issues and some would probably utter it was almost unplayable without mods.

 

-Ori

Edited January 29, 2014 by Ori42

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

orlok: "Whilst im not fond of the "hilarious" parody post" .....why the quotation marks? :P ANd...*glances at his avatar* ...you know... ;)

 

jovlon: Now thats what I call a good man. Reads dumb jokes and a mean parody, but instead of being insulted he sees the point I was trying to make and answers clear and friendly. And sorry for the Nazijoke (more a too strong exaggeration than a joke) - I thought about it after i posted and thought that it was unappropriate, sorry for that again.

 

Mismanagement and is always a danger for any bigger project afaik. And its good that you try to reason and show it, so that maybe something can be done against it - if it is as you assume and not too late.

 

Well these "lofty goals with an extremely ambitious time frame" is just what we know - I haven't seen the intern roadmap or the milestones, so I can't really say something about this.

 

"Each update will cause expected behaviors and unexpected behaviors when it comes to gameplay."  - true. Thats why it is first in experimental and if it doesnt crash everything, after that still...in an alpha ;)

 

"I think that as we're satisfied with the game currently they shouldn't attempt to pump out updates that will produce unpredictable behaviors but that they should slow the updates and release major stable updates." - I totally understand you, but again: It's an alpha. As you know, yon't play an alpha normally just to play the game - you play it to help finding bugs and issues, bring suggestions and let your voice been heard. The fact that DayZ is already fun while still in Alpha is a bonus ;)

 

"Yes it's only been released for a month but you must know that they've been working on it much longer." -also true. But as far Aas I'm informed the main points that they were working on for the last year before the alpha release was the Engine, Server-client architecture and the agents.

 

This was and still is viewed by many as being the type of game that could further empower the indie movement. And that's why it's become such a topic around the development community. We want it to succeed (again somehow people have gotten the opposite impression and for that I'm sorry). But we also understand that you must have strong internal management and organization especially when you know that you aren't going to a major company backing you with more money. As stated they'll still get some new players here and there but I'd guess that most of the players that were going to purchase the game (even those that haven't bothered to play it yet) have. The resources (money, etc.) that they have right now is what they will likely have moving forward. So it concerns me and others that I've talked to that even after working on the project for some time now, they don't seem to have a clear focus on what they'd like to do, how they want to develop, and the realistic pace at which they should develop this game.

 

Again, I can only make a parody or jokes about that, but I'm missing the inside view to really discuss this - if they have a clear focus etc. I mean...what is the Vision of a Sandbox-Game? Make it as good as possible? Make it like the Mod was but with a totally different architecture and new engine and all the cool things that the Mod-mods had? I don't know. And the Mission? Well, Beta at the end of the year. And I'm pretty sure that they have milestones that define that step..

[dallas 5195]

Being there at the start and then being able to use the finished product and remember all of the bumps throughout the journey, is simply unmissable.

What I loved most about the mod and what I looked most forward to in the Standalone.

 

After a few weeks, where the zombies didn't spawn correctly, Rocket released a zombie patch, increasing the spawn rates(1.3?) and the zombie spawns went crazy in the mod. Each spawn zone would just continue to spawn zombies and players were getting overrun and killed. The forums were filled with tears and burning bras all afternoon and then players simply started adapting to the new situation and overcome the crazy waves of zombies. 

 

Loved it.

[jovlon 32]

Again, I can only make a parody or jokes about that, but I'm missing the inside view to really discuss this - if they have a clear focus etc. I mean...what is the Vision of a Sandbox-Game? Make it as good as possible? Make it like the Mod was but with a totally different architecture and new engine and all the cool things that the Mod-mods had? I don't know. And the Mission? Well, Beta at the end of the year. And I'm pretty sure that they have milestones that define that step..

 

"But I'm missing the inside view to really discuss this" 

 

I think that this has been my key flaw. With anything if you discuss it with a certain group of people there becomes an understanding... You move past certain points within the topic. There's been so many discussions surrounding this game for seemingly forever now within my world that there's so many key points that I've moved past. 

 

For a while there was the discussion of funding for this game. It's an ambitious project that could be the next great PC game (there's so few left). That it's an MMO with limited funding was a big point of discussion months ago now. So I made the mistake of overlooking explaining those aspects... of explaining the long process that lead me and others to our collective concerns. And that is as I said a huge oversight on my end. My brain thinks in a certain way which is why I originally wanted different perspectives. And that's why I believe that some have understood more clearly what I'm saying than others. They may be looking at all of the factors that I'm looking at but didn't voice and seeing where I came from on that front. 

 

As for my opinion, a sandbox game is meant to be a world in which the players can make their own. They should be able to do and play as they please. There is no singular objective. Within that frame of mind I'd say that as a developer you'd hope that you could provide the tools for players to make the world and grow the world as they please. This is why I couldn't criticize KOS (which I think is the best element as it forces you to make a split second decision) or something like 3rd person view (I don't agree with it but I don't mind it at all and there are servers that are 1st only). That to me would be discussing the very foundation of a sandbox. But when developing an open-world MMO I'd argue that the focus should be on issues of greater impact. Even if they continued to add new models (guns etc.) that I could at least say will be something that greatly impacts the game and how a player plays down the road. Yes something such as a spray can or new sodas will also eventually be important (perhaps) but at this time are they really tools that allow the players to alter the world or their play style? And should something like that generate a bug (though not gamebreaking) that could effect how some players play? Because then you're taking away the concept of what an open-world sandbox is.

 

And I agree that have experimental builds are great. I must have forgotten to add this part in the previous post. I also believe that they should use those that play experimental builds almost as their Early Access Test group. I see it as advantageous to have longer experimental builds (seeing as only x amount of players can play) to test them, fix the bugs, and then release them as stable builds. If I were fortunate enough to play with the new features, I'd understand that in doing so for however long I choose I'd be working with raw buggy features that others won't have when the update rolls out in x amount of weeks. And that's a fair trade off that allows the hardcore players to be a big part of the implementation process while allowing those that want more stabilization what they want. 

 

I'm sure that somebody will attack that suggestion. But in all of this I've also tried to look at what they're committing to doing and making suggestions based off of that. 

[capt. beefsteak 95]

So the new patch means that they quit? Ok?

[Sula 1205]

Dear those of you who like to argue and bite at each other,

 

I'm not going to bother to read those far too long and, in my view, pointless posts.  I don't care what anyone writes just as long as it is within the rules.  Make sure you are familiar with our rules or don't be surprised if your threads/posts are removed and you get warning points or a temporary ban, if you use insulting references to people's races, cultures, sex or sexual orientation.

 

 

Dear those of you who enjoy healthy, friendly and polite discussion,

 

Carry on and have a good evening!

 

Sula

Edited January 30, 2014 by Sula

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

That's so straight, you must be a straight black girl from Australia.

Something like this example I gave is forbidden? Just asking and checking if you still dont read posts...

(Disclaimer: I hate all people the same, no matter what culture, sex, sexual orientation, race or beliefs they have, it doesn't matter to me, even if you are a blue dendrophile hermaphrodite from the moon. Except for Anchovys. Bah. And Misanthropists. Whats wrong with them?)

Nah, I'm just playing, sry couldn't resist, but the "I'm not going to bother to read those far too long and, in my view, pointless posts" thing was again something that confused me. I don't wanna tell you how to behave as a a part of the Forum team or anything, but writing something like this is shooting yourself in the foot, in my honest opinion...sure its too much to read and too much useless trash (and the fun thing: since nobody is able to use the search function its the same useless trash over and over again! Yay!) in this forum, but saying that you dont read too long posts is strange for a FTM. btw. the too long posts - except for my first one which was 90% a parody - are about the point that is discussed in the thread, so they are not pointless...

 

Back 2 business:

 

@ Deepfryer: Maybe you want to read the latest posts before you reply. I was also...well let's call it "not noble" to jovlon because of his choice of words and his assumptions, but especially in his last post he explaines a lot, that may help you understand him. I still not share the beliefs in the OP but I can understand his concerns.

 

@Jovlon: Yeah, I know that: You discuss something with friends and colleagues and then write about it, without mentioning some things that would be important for the readers to understand because they are total basics to you, just because you discussed them over and over.

 

As for my opinion, a sandbox game is meant to be a world in which the players can make their own. They should be able to do and play as they please. There is no singular objective. Within that frame of mind I'd say that as a developer you'd hope that you could provide the tools for players to make the world and grow the world as they please. This is why I couldn't criticize KOS (...) 

But when developing an open-world MMO I'd argue that the focus should be on issues of greater impact. Even if they continued to add new models (guns etc.) that I could at least say will be something that greatly impacts the game and how a player plays down the road. Yes something such as a spray can or new sodas will also eventually be important (perhaps) but at this time are they really tools that allow the players to alter the world or their play style? And should something like that generate a bug (though not gamebreaking) that could effect how some players play? Because then you're taking away the concept of what an open-world sandbox is.

 

First sentences: Yes, totally agree with you. Second Part...again: only from what I read here, on reddit, twitter and heard in streams, the focus of the team is...well...

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/156129-confirmed-upcoming-features-for-dayz/

I'm pretty sure you know that, but I bring it up, because it shows (I interpret it that way) the focus of the team. Everything else - sodas, shorts, spraycans - is nice and good to have, but not made by the core programmers (see my signature ;))

 

Regarding experimental builds: There are just a few testserver, so there is a limitation. And if it doesnt crash anything real bad (Like it happened this time - no spawning possible ;)) it will go into stable branch of the alpha so that it will be tested with a large group in a huge variety. As said before - its an Alpha. As customer of the Alpha, we test the updates and report back. And play ;)

Edited January 30, 2014 by LaughingJack

[Shoodbworkin 1]

I haven't read so much that said so little since high school

[Geosis 0]

You'd be mad to think this game will never be completed.

And why would he be mad? Need I remind you that the devs are not legally obliged to finish this game, or that dayz mod is still an alpha too which serves as a good example imo.

[dallas 5195]

 

And why would he be mad? Need I remind you that the devs are not legally obliged to finish this game, or that dayz mod is still an alpha too which serves as a good example imo.

Yeah and we played hundreds of hours in the DayZ mod and we had a riot playing it through out it's development.

 

BI games are always a work in progress. 

 

This isn't about the end result, this is about the journey. 

 

If you only care about the end station, you got on the wrong train.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Dallas

[Furtherado 100]

I don`t get what the fuzz is all about

 

It`s 30 dollars, and if you shell that out even though you see the warnings, have every possibility to watch some Let`s Plays and maybe do some research on the forums, you could piece together whether or not buying this game in this early state is an option for you, or if you`d rather wait. Yes, the dev team has earned over 30 million bucks from us all collectively, but it is up to each and every one of us to do our duty as customers. 

 

I realize wages are very different in the world over, but 30 bucks in most NA and European countries is at worst 2-3 hours of work, and that is a burger-flipping job. I would still get mad if someone scammed me of that money, but in this case i think you get warnings enough, so that you can easily make an educated choice. 

 

I understand your concern about people buying this game because it`s the hot next thing to do and then getting dissapointed, but when were talking about 30 bucks from each customer i feel it is natural selection in the customer world, and not an evil scheme. After all, woudl you feel sorry if someone shelled out 1200 bucks for a computer wiithout doing any research whatsoever and then get dissapointed when it can`t play high-end video games because they didn`t check what kind of processor it had?

Edited January 30, 2014 by Furtherado

[real meatshield 424]

I think the OP makes some valid assumptions, based on the fact that we take it on faith he actually *is* a developer himself. However, he doesn't lay out who he works for- which is cool, I get it, but at the same time the tone of his assumptions could clearly be tainted by whomever his employer is.

If he is working for a developer that is in bondage to one of the demon publishers- EA or Activision- chances are good he works under the conditions he assumes BIS *should* be implementing as well. However, it seems to me (assuming here) that BIS is not beholden to, therefore does not behave like, those console-bound mega-publishers. Rocket took a bit of vacay to go climb Everest, and communicated with the team via satellite. Giving the crew the weekend off before a big release? Actually seems to make a ton of sense, allowing the crew to blow off some steam and relax a bit before the meltdown.

 

We all know Valve. We all use Steam, so Valve is an integral part of the game we are playing here. Do we all know about "Valve Time"? https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time "Soon" is their mantra, and "soon" has not kept Valve from dominating the PC gaming market. Rocket and crew may not be dropping the "soon" on us, but they are likely implementing that style of development- and if it takes til this time next year to reach beta, so what, if the end result is what we all hope it to be?

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

I don`t get what the fuzz is all about

 

It`s 30 dollars, and if you shell that out even though you see the warnings, have every possibility to watch some Let`s Plays and maybe do some research on the forums, you could piece together whether or not buying this game in this early state is an option for you, or if you`d rather wait. Yes, the dev team has earned over 20 million bucks from us all collectively, but it is up to each and every one of us to do our duty as customers. 

 

I realize wages are very different in the world over, but 30 bucks in most NA and European countries is at worst 2-3 hours of work, and that is a burger-flipping job. I would still get mad if someone scammed me of that money, but in this case i think you get warnings enough, so that you can easily make an educated choice. 

 

I understand your concern about people buying this game because it`s the hot next thing to do and then getting dissapointed, but when were talking about 30 bucks from each customer i feel it is natural selection in the customer world, and not an evil scheme. After all, woudl you feel sorry if someone shelled out 1200 bucks for a computer wiithout doing any research whatsoever and then get dissapointed when it can`t play high-end video games because they didn`t check what kind of processor it had?

20 million? Methinks you need to recalculate that. Much more than 20million for quite a while now

[Bubbajones 238]

There is no shortage of armchair quarterbacks on this forum.

 

As 99.99% of us are neither Bi employees, nor are we empaths, telepaths, or psychics, here are our options:

 

• shut up and play
• shut up and don't play
• pretend we know shit we don't
• blueberries.

 

pick one.

 

 

Arguing on the internet is like participating in the special Olympics; even if you win, you're still retarded.

[DKR 104]

"Bohemia Interactive is only using this as a publicity stunt and way to generate quick revenue. It was never their intention to allow the dev team to create a finished game. The game will eventually be put on permanent hiatus. (This happens often. It happened on the last would be AAA title that I collaborated on)"

Been playing games religiously for over 15 years and stay current on news/information on upcoming titles. Never heard of very many games (that mattered) put on hiatus. I don't think it happens often at all. "Often" means many times, frequently. CoD games are often released. I poop frequently. Triple AAA games that go on hiatus, in my opinon, don't fall under the category of "often".

 

"The development team has no clear direction or goals. Essentially there's no clear focused way to their developmental habits which also spells doom for the game."

There have been 5 updates since release and another one on the way. A ridiculous amount of information on their plans and goals can be found in YouTube videos, DevBlogs, etc. You can also view their game plan by reviewing a post entitled "Confirmed Upcoming Features for DayZ". Add this to the plans that have been verbally communicated in videos and written in text...I don't think you can conclude that they "have no clear direction or goals". > Also, who knows what they discuss in meetings at their studio? This is just what they're making public.

 

"The developers aren't listening to the community." > They read our suggestions. They have SAID that they have read our suggestions. If you're a developer, then you're probably an adult. As an adult, and a game developer, you're probably (hopefully) aware of the number of children who can now, in the age of the internet, voice their opinion. Add in internet anonymity, and you have to account for brats online, which will always go ignored. They're listening....but only to people that can make clear, calm, and useful suggestions.

 

"How many features have been implemented or reduced when it's been generally agreed on by the public?" > First off, there's hardly anything at all that's completely agreed upon by ANY gaming community. Asking "how many features" is meant to direct attention towards their lack of features, in your mind, that have been collectively demanded by the public. Last I checked...we're getting guns, camping, crafting, more cities/towns, vehicles, more animations, combat log fixes, and multiple other desired features. You're not seeing all of them yet because....man I hate to do this..but, well...its just an early Alpha dude. They're coming. They ARE implementing features that people want. As a developer, surely you know they can't implement ALL of them.

 

"How many community suggested gameplay elements have been introduced at all from any of the updates?" > Again, you're directing attention to their lack of features at this point in development. Good for you. *clapping* I don't think you've been following this game closely enough to question their intentions. They're adding more player gestures...they're talking about adding in badges for identifying friendlies...they're discussing how to implement vehicles. CRAFTING was a desire of the community. They started implementing that didn't they? People want more guns don't they? They've started adding more of those as well. Impatience man. They LITERALLY ARE implementing what players want. And they're working on the rest of it. Its so early to complain about their development pace. Even combat loggers will go extinct soon....actually, the new pending patch actually applies a timer. That is SPECIFICALLY what the community wanted, or at least a version of it. C'mon dude

 

"The updates feel like they're meant only to increase the amount of players. Who could honestly say that any of their updates have fixed or even mildly addressed any of the massive glaring holes in gameplay? So what have they introduced?"

Have you even played the game or stayed current on the Changelogs? From rubber banding, to server crashes, to various types of glitches and balance issues, they have touched on a ton of stuff. The list is huge on what they've done to address all of the "massive glaring holes in gameplay". There is still more to do and they're still working on it. Jesus.

 

"They've introduced what I call player's features. Features that players will become excited about for a time. Features that will receive a lot of press and ultimately bring new players."

I'll just let you read a quote from Rocket himself. Maybe that'll help?
 

"Why has <insert any bug> not been fixed yet when there is new content coming in?

While priorities are very important when assigning work, there is a limit to how many people can work on a complex task without making it even more complex. Also, many of the team are focused purely on content/design so while the important stuff is being fixed, they continue to provide content and design updates."

 

"Dean has promised vehicles and a lot of other features that have players foaming at the mouth but given the development of the game and his refusal to set any sort of timeline (other than 6 months) I doubt that they will be able to reach this goal so quickly."

You want a "hard date"? Yea, hey Dean, tell us the day and time when you're going to be finished. They've outline their basic plans and timeline in the Announcements thread. Why so serious about absolutes? Relax, its a game. First-world problems...lol

 

"With this last update Dean stated something like "Every developer has been forced to go home for the weekend". Anybody who has worked in the industry knows about crunchtime... the time before any update or before the game releases when the dev team works overtime to ensure that everything rolls out as planned. It's unusually and disheartening to me that they've done this and similar things that have raised concern from the player base in the past."

They are not in crunchtime. Each team in their studio has their responsibilities, and while they work together ultimately, they each push things out at different times.  You're condemning them for "going home for the weekend"...and ironically, hilariously, the next day after your post this critique of their work ethic, they have a new Pending update announcement. They're not slacking. They're not being lazy. Slow your roll, calm down, and just stay current on their announcements.

 

>>>>>>>

 

Proposing solutions and making suggestions are wonderful, especially from a developer, but doing so in a negative, suspicious way makes me suspicious of YOU. You're only here to drum up drama and controversy about the development of DayZ. We've ALL read countless threads from impatient people and read all the complaints. You're late to the party. Almost sounds like, from your writing, that you could be a competitor of DayZ and you're trying to inject controversy into the development process. That being said, I have one question for you:

 

Did you work on WarZ and now work on Nether?

Edited January 30, 2014 by DKR

[Invisy 0]

Dean was asked on reddit what one of the most important things he has learned with developing/public interation or something like that, and his response was to never set a date for something unless you are extremely sure it will make it in time. This is likely why he is reluctant to set dates for things like vehicles...