The most common 'cheat' used in DayZ...

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

But our opinion is that it is not cheating...see how it becomes a circular argument? People have stated why it is not cheating and you have a different opinion. Objectively it is not cheating since there is no rule against the use of VoiP and there is no punishment. On a subjective level I guess it is up for debate but I would still disagree with your characterization of it being a cheat but would be unable to show that 100%. So by the only objective measurement available, rules, it is not against the rules meaning it is not cheating. 

 

Exactly. There's no point in getting worked up over the terminology used when it boils down to us having different opinions.

 

The point isn't that I call it cheating, so it's cheating. The point is that I consider it cheating. The reason I consider it cheating doesn't disappear when it's called by another name. I don't think it's bad because of the term used, I use a negative term because I think it's bad.

 

It's like server hopping and combat logging. I don't see any rules that explicitly state that those acts are cheating. Yet the majority of the community looks negatively upon those acts. I personally consider them cheating, you might have another term. No matter what they're called, the actions are still the same.

[Firstbornchicken 34]

Lets get this out of the way first: There is nothing currently in place that makes using a 3rd party chat cheating.

 

The second thing we need to get out of the way is, they will never be able to enforce such rules. Skype, and many other "voip" services are protected under law as a phoneline or an email account, depending on the country. 

 

In Denmark for example, a tos or eula saying you need to withdraw such rights are by default null and void.

 

But this entire nonsense aside... what do you anti voip people think about people playing together in the same room? what now?

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Exactly. There's no point in getting worked up over the terminology used when it boils down to us having different opinions.

 

The point isn't that I call it cheating, so it's cheating. The point is that I consider it cheating. The reason I consider it cheating doesn't disappear when it's called by another name. I don't think it's bad because of the term used, I use a negative term because I think it's bad.

 

It's like server hopping and combat logging. I don't see any rules that explicitly state that those acts are cheating. Yet the majority of the community looks negatively upon those acts. I personally consider them cheating, you might have another term. No matter what they're called, the actions are still the same.

 

Hopefully I do not seem worked up. Calling people cheaters will get some people worked up I just pointed out that I disagree with both the concept and the word choice. 

 

As far as server hopping and combat logging I would call them very bad examples of exploiting an unfinished game that does not have features to combat these exploits implemented yet. So I would use the term exploiting, although combat logging is one of the worst examples of exploiting currently in the game since it ruins a great deal of the purpose of the game. Servers in the mod that made it against the rules it would be called cheating and there were often temporary or permanent bans attached to that action. 

[BL1P 252]

Lets get this out of the way first: There is nothing currently in place that makes using a 3rd party chat cheating.

 

The second thing we need to get out of the way is, they will never be able to enforce such rules. Skype, and many other "voip" services are protected under law as a phoneline or an email account, depending on the country. 

 

In Denmark for example, a tos or eula saying you need to withdraw such rights are by default null and void.

 

But this entire nonsense aside... what do you anti voip people think about people playing together in the same room? what now?

 

Eliminating some of the problems is a step forward ignoring the problem is not.

 

Your first statement was that nothing in place makes using TS a cheat could be construed as wrong if you consider the devs placed a radio in the game with the intent that it be used to communicate while ingame.

If the devs envisioned that we could talk any distance to anyone they would have made the radios function like the side chat did.

because they placed restrictions on how the radio works suggests that the devs wish for a better system of communication in the game than what TS or any other voice prog currently offers.

I myself wish for a better system of communication without the ability to bypass that system.

I would consider checking if the player was using another voice communication program the same as checking for a cheat at that point. 

Edited January 28, 2014 by BL1P

[crazywolf5150 17]

I sure as hell wouldn't want this to be prevented, because I use it all the time with fellow clan members. Just last night we were looting the NW airbase, I was providing sniper support from the ATC and someone shot at me and hit the window, so I alerted the others and we killed the bandit. That is just one of many examples when I found teamspeak to be vital.

[BL1P 252]

I sure as hell wouldn't want this to be prevented, because I use it all the time with fellow clan members. Just last night we were looting the NW airbase, I was providing sniper support from the ATC and someone shot at me and hit the window, so I alerted the others and we killed the bandit. That is just one of many examples when I found teamspeak to be vital.

 

I too use it all the time.

Although your example is a prime example of how an external program assisted you and your team far above how the games internal communication system was intended.

[ninjacalypse 551]

Hello there

 

I too think that TS is "cheating" as it doesnt allow for distance etc.

 

What we need to combat apps like TS is a more robust and fun in game system to use.

 

The problem is, if the devs make an amazing radio system, the "instawin" folk out there will just use TS and negate any radio effects.

 

Tying the game into TS like ACRE might be a solution. But there could be a monopolies issue with that. (Ill need to chat with my legal team)

 

I dont think using TS is as evil as proper cheating, rather I find it a shame folk wont use the in game viop.

 

The thing is it's not just TS though...it's TS and Vent and Mumble and Raidcall and Skype and hell, even Steam has built in VoIP that you can use externally just by shift-tabbing in-game. Any attempt to lock down TS, might annoy people who favor using TS but they would just use another VoIP program of which there are countless, if they really wanted to.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Hopefully I do not seem worked up. Calling people cheaters will get some people worked up I just pointed out that I disagree with both the concept and the word choice. 

 

As far as server hopping and combat logging I would call them very bad examples of exploiting an unfinished game that does not have features to combat these exploits implemented yet. So I would use the term exploiting, although combat logging is one of the worst examples of exploiting currently in the game since it ruins a great deal of the purpose of the game. Servers in the mod that made it against the rules it would be called cheating and there were often temporary or permanent bans attached to that action. 

 

Nah you weren't getting worked up, but your posts were getting others worked up, the point of personally insulting me.

 

 

I sure as hell wouldn't want this to be prevented, because I use it all the time with fellow clan members. Just last night we were looting the NW airbase, I was providing sniper support from the ATC and someone shot at me and hit the window, so I alerted the others and we killed the bandit. That is just one of many examples when I found teamspeak to be vital.

 

Wouldn't it have gone down the same way if your clan were carrying radios turned to the same frequency?

[DKR 104]

when you say "in DayZ"...you mean exclusive to DayZ.

 

The most common fucking cheat in DayZ right now is looking through walls, shooting through walls, and glitching into walls like in the jail.

 

Its BS

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

"Cheating" is a word thrown around far too much on this forum.

[Firstbornchicken 34]

Eliminating some of the problems is a step forward ignoring the problem is not.

. 

 

You say it is a problem. I say it is something so common to the gaming world, that any sane developer would stay far away from calling it cheating, or unwanted. The people want to be able to communicate freely, regardless of what game they are playing. 

 

You are right, that the game contains radio mechanics. I would argue they are for immersion and not as a game limit. When there is functioning radio system up and running, i will sure as hell be having fun with it. Regardless of my ability to communicate outside of the game.

 

Restricting peoples ability to use outside communication is a bad move. You just wait and see, if the developers ever talk about this, they will surely agree.

 

And for the last time. It is not cheating. It might not be fair play. But nothing makes it cheating, other than you not liking it!

Edited January 28, 2014 by Firstbornchicken

[BL1P 252]

You say it is a problem. I say it is something so common to the gaming world, that any sane developer would stay far away from calling it cheating, or unwanted. The people want to be able to communicate freely, regardless of what game they are playing. 

 

You are right, that the game contains radio mechanics. I would argue they are for immersion and not as a game limit. When there is functioning radio system up and running, i will sure as hell be having fun with it. Regardless of my ability to communicate outside of the game.

 

Restricting peoples ability to use outside communication is a bad move. You just wait and see, if the developers ever talk about this, they will surely agree.

 

 

Sad but true :)

 

If they teamed with TS and created a DayZ ACRE that might work well.

Server admins could regulate that how they wished as well.

[OrLoK 16182]

The thing is it's not just TS though...it's TS and Vent and Mumble and Raidcall and Skype and hell, even Steam has built in VoIP that you can use externally just by shift-tabbing in-game. Any attempt to lock down TS, might annoy people who favor using TS but they would just use another VoIP program of which there are countless, if they really wanted to.

Hello there

 

I agree.

 

Again, I think using any form of external reference makes the game easier and TBH the only person one is truly cheating is oneself.

 

Ie, as was mentioned earlier, words to the effect of "I use TS to find my mates", well, for me, this is losing you half the fun of being lost and finding your way to each other which is an adventure in itself.

 

I live in a dream world where id like folk not to use external web maps. apps and ts etc rather experience the game as it is intended.

 

Cheating is too harsh a term. Spoiling? perhaps.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Firstbornchicken 34]

 

Again, I think using any form of external reference makes the game easier and TBH the only person one is truly cheating is oneself.

 

Ie, as was mentioned earlier, words to the effect of "I use TS to find my mates", well, for me, this is losing you half the fun of being lost and finding your way to each other which is an adventure in itself.

 

 

I am not overly fond of people who think they know the "better" or "right" way to play a game.. Especially a sandbox game like this..

 

I am sorry, and this might sound harsh, but you people really need to get over yourselfs. Your opinions do matter, but outside communication is not really something a developer can, or should ever tread on. So this whole debate can never equate to more than a lot of people getting mad at eachother

Edited January 28, 2014 by Firstbornchicken

[OrLoK 16182]

I am not overly fond of people who think they know the "better" or "right" way to play a game.. Especially a sandbox game like this..

 

I am sorry, and this might sound harsh, but you people really need to get over yourselfs. Your opinions do matter, but outside communication is not really something a developer can, or should ever tread on. So this whole debate can never equate to more than a lot of people getting mad at eachother

Hello there

 

I want to play the game as intended. I see nothing wrong with that. If the devs are going to lengths to create an in game comms system with radios and batteries etc etc it seems odd to bypass them.

 

Am I forcing you to play "my" way? No.

 

You do what you will.

 

I just think folk who use external apps like the dayz loot maps etc are spoiling their own fun.

 

Its fine to disagree and you dont have to be fond of me or my personal opinions.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I am not overly fond of people who think they know the "better" or "right" way to play a game.. Especially a sandbox game like this..

 

I am sorry, and this might sound harsh, but you people really need to get over yourselfs. Your opinions do matter, but outside communication is not really something a developer can, or should ever tread on. So this whole debate can never equate to more than a lot of people getting mad at eachother

 

Let's pretend we live in a totalitarian dictatorship where everything can be controlled. Why shouldn't this be controlled? What's the benefit in not controlling it? Why is circumvention of game restraints a good thing for us?

[Bubbajones 238]

Hello there

 

I agree.

 

Again, I think using any form of external reference makes the game easier and TBH the only person one is truly cheating is oneself.

 

Ie, as was mentioned earlier, words to the effect of "I use TS to find my mates", well, for me, this is losing you half the fun of being lost and finding your way to each other which is an adventure in itself.

 

I live in a dream world where id like folk not to use external web maps. apps and ts etc rather experience the game as it is intended.

 

Cheating is too harsh a term. Spoiling? perhaps.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

i understand what you're saying Orlok, but some of us have friends that we play games with - and we're not all sitting in a game studio at a round table. my friends are around the world. 

 

what am i suppose to do? go into team speak, shoot the shit with my friends, then say,

 

"ok guys... going into Dayz... disconnecting from TS3... hope to bump into you sometime! i'll be in a pink hoodie!"

 

people who choose to play the game solo have to understand that many of us game hobbyists play with clans. we're not going to give up the comradery and obvious benefits that voip gives to make the not-haves feel better about themselves.

 

i've been gaming with voip since the 90's. i'm sure there are oodles of people like me that think it is a natural part of their gaming experience.

 

That isn't going to change and removing that aspect of gaming will only cause a huge portion of the playerbase to move on to something else.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Bubbajones

[Firstbornchicken 34]

Let's pretend we live in a totalitarian dictatorship where everything can be controlled. Why shouldn't this be controlled? What's the benefit in not controlling it? Why is circumvention of game restraints a good thing for us?

 

I don't see outside communication as circumventing a game restraint. I find that notion foolish at best. I regularly play with my friend physically near me. 

 

So the question that really needs asking is, what benefits will the game get by arbitrarily limiting something that seems natural to the gaming scene?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Firstbornchicken

[DirtyscumbagLith 270]

get some friends to play with. see how long you last typing things to them or using in game voip. lol. noob!

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

 

I too only play with mates around the the world, I can only dream of  being in a game studio.

 

I also play by certain rules when gaming. Ie if in RO2 Im shot dead, I remain silent until I respawn. I could be of a huge help to my teammates by yelling out who killed me and where but I/we feel if ones toon/avatar cannot function nor should the player.

 

I just dont TS with mates when I DAYZ.

 

Should you? Well, that's your descision.

 

If I want to chat, then ill chat, if I want to play then I play.

 

Perhaps I am too extreme in my playstyle for most. Then again Im not forcing folk too, but I do have an opinion like everyone else.

 

I still think half the beauty of DAYZ is the aloneness and for me, TS would spoil that for me.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

Edited January 28, 2014 by orlok

[execpro22 128]

OP clearly states there's no winning this battle, but people still feel the need to say that if something can't be stopped, we should welcome it with open arms. I disagree. Just because we can lie cheat and steal, doesn't mean those things are good and should be defended.

 

Some people need to step back and think about why they get so defensive whenever third party voice software is even brought up. Even the slightest mention of it being negative sets people off on 'just a game' or 'can't be stopped' rants. We can't stop scammers in Africa from taking advantage of naive people, does that mean we should all move to Africa and scam people?

 

Radios are in-game, what is your excuse now player?

 

 

 

Funny cuz Dean (the creator of the frickin game) Hall was seen in one of Sacriels youtube videos using a third party VOIP to talk in game to Sacriel.

 

 

 

If its good enough for the creator of the game to use I really dont think you can call it it "cheating".

 

 

Unless you are now telling me that the creator of the game is also a cheater too....

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Cheating is too harsh a term. Spoiling? perhaps.

Spoiling is the word I'd use to describe it. Using VOIP spoils any immersion you'd get from using the in-game DC or radios (makes the latter entirely redundant too), which is a shame. However, there's the square root of fuck all that can be done to stop the use of VOIP and I'm pretty sure if DayZ had code that blocked VOIP, Bohemia would soon find themselves dragged before a judge.

 

Game breaking? No.

Game spoiling? Personal opinion, but I'd vote "yes".

Can it be changed? No.

What should people do about it? Suck it up and carry on.

[OrLoK 16182]

Funny cuz Dean (the creator of the frickin game) Hall was seen in one of Sacriels youtube videos using a third party VOIP to talk in game to Sacriel.

 

 

 

If its good enough for the creator of the game to use I really dont think you can call it it "cheating".

 

 

Unless you are now telling me that the creator of the game is also a cheater too....

How about pseudo interview rather than gameplay?

 

Anyhoo, I dont believe in game comms are complete yet, so we need to see what happens at a later stage. Still a worthy discussion though.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Hello there

 

I want to play the game as intended. I see nothing wrong with that. If the devs are going to lengths to create an in game comms system with radios and batteries etc etc it seems odd to bypass them.

 

Am I forcing you to play "my" way? No.

 

You do what you will.

 

I just think folk who use external apps like the dayz loot maps etc are spoiling their own fun.

 

Its fine to disagree and you dont have to be fond of me or my personal opinions.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

Who can not be fond of Orlok? Even when disagreeing you are abundantly nice. 

 

I agree on the loot map part although I was guilty when I first started. When the new maps came out I would try to navigate without loot maps and I found it fun, although being a DayZ veteran helps with navigation in general. 

 

I just think this is an issue of practicality. There is no way to actually meet up with friends without using some form of external communication, even setting a meeting place on an outside source is playing the game in a way not intended. Plus we all know DayZ can be long stretches of boring activities punctuated by brief moments of action and that time is easier spent joking around or talking on these outside programs. Like most of these forum disagreements both sides have valid points to make but since it is an online forum it often devolves into cursing and anger that seems way out of proportion to the subject at hand. Frankly I am not sure how you baby blues handle it. 

[Bubbajones 238]

Hello there

 

I too only play with mates around the the world, I can only dream of  being in a game studio.

 

I also play by certain rules when gaming. Ie if in RO2 Im shot dead, I remain silent until I respawn. I could be of a huge help to my teammates by yelling out who killed me and where but I/we feel if ones toon/avatar cannot function nor should the player.

 

I just dont TS with mates when I DAYZ.

 

Should you? Well, that's your descision.

 

If I want to chat, then ill chat, if I want to play then I play.

 

Perhaps I am too extreme in my playstyle for most. Then again Im not forcing folk too, but I do have an opinion like everyone else.

 

I still think half the beauty of DAYZ is the aloneness and for me, TS would spoil that for me.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

 

fair enough.

 

Dayz takes care of the dead reporting anything with the black screen when unconscious or dead.

 

i respect your opinion, but i disagree with the Op calling Voip cheating and his idea that it should be somehow prevented.

 

it would be a disaster to the game.