The Campaign for Iron Sight Zoom

[fundan@gmx.de 82]

Pretty please.

[Nonapona2 26]

This is my number one biggest problem with the standalone. I can live with almost everything else. I can't live with this.

 

 

 

ARMA's excellent zoom mechanics have been monkeyed with and utterly ruined!

 

 

 

 

 

 

WHY DO WE HAVE ZOOM?

Some people have called the zoom unrealistic, "bionic" eyes, etc. So why do your player's eyes zoom in at all? Simple answer: they don't.

Check out this comparison of zoomed out, zoomed in, and the ACOG.

Look at the coloured boxes drawn around the oil derrick. As you can see, the "zoomed in" level represented your normal eyesight. "Zoomed in" is 1x. If there was no "zoom" feature, you couldn't see anyone past ridiculously short ranges.

Your eyes don't zoom in, they are zoomed OUT by default. The human eye has a way larger field of view and a way larger resolution than a little flat monitor can portray. The variable field of view is necessary for a realistic game, which is why the ARMA series has the "zoom" in the first place.

 

 

Note: for clarity I'm still going to refer to the 1x view as the "zoomed in" one for the rest of this post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IS THIS THE SAME IN STANDALONE?

Look at this comparison, using standard FOV for both games. The level of "zoom" is EXACTLY the same. No difference whatsoever.

 

 

 

 

 

However, the answer is no. It's not the same in standalone, and the reason why makes absolutely no sense...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WHY IS MY CHARACTER'S EYESIGHT TOTALLY INCONSISTENT?

In the standalone, your character's eyesight randomly changes for no logical reason.

Check out this comparison of the T3N red dot, and a bare iron sight. The T3N has the same magnification as the M68, which is supposed to be NON-MAGNIFIED.

Yet the image appears a full 40% larger!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WHY DOES A NON-MAGNIFIED RED DOT MAGNIFY?

 

It doesn't!

 

The red dot's "magnification" is the exact same as your character's normal 1x eyesight (described in WHY DO WE HAVE ZOOM?).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SO WHAT'S GOING ON?

 

What's going on is that iron sights have been limited.

 

Your character, for reasons unknown, can't see as far when using them. He can see properly with a red dot, or with an axe (ie, no sights), but the moment he looks down any iron sights - BAM - his normal "zoom" is restricted by 40%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HOW DOES THIS COMPARE TO ARMA?

 

ARMA made perfect sense - your "zooms" in iron sight mode were EXACTLY the same as your normal "zooms". You had the same two levels of "zoom" whether running around without any weapons, or when looking down the sights of an AKM.

 

In gameplay terms, you have less zoom. I hear some people have even tried not using the sights in order to get more "zoom". That wouldn't be necessary if your eyesight wasn't randomly limited.

 

 

 

 

Here's the standalone's Mosin vs ARMA's Lee-Enfield. we had 40% more zoom in ARMA... and still do in the standalone, except when using irons!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

 

This isn't just about zooming in. I want to zoom OUT as well!

 

Let's consider a scenario: say, room clearing. You don't want to be zoomed in for room clearing.

 

 

But in the standalone, if you're looking down the sights, you're ALWAYS FULLY ZOOMED whether you like it or not.

 

 

Look at this revolver comparison. The ARMA 2 revolver has a field of view that's over 40% wider, because like all guns in the standalone, the "Magnum" is always fully zoomed in! The only exception is the 2D long range scope.

 

I don't want to be forced into a zoom I don't need or want!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The difference in the above comparison may not be obvious enough - it feels terrible when playing - so consider this: like I said above, red dots zoom 40% more than iron sights.

 

What does that mean?

 

With a standalone red dot, you're going to have HALF the field of view you would have with an ARMA 2 red dot.

 

Half. That's awful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

GIVE US BACK OUR ZOOM!

 

 

 

It worked great in ARMA.

 

It made perfect sense.

 

It enhanced gameplay.

 

 

 

 

 

So what was wrong with it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want it back ASAP, and hopefully others do too.

 

But this isn't ARMA II, this is DayZ Standalone, its own game, yes, it does feature shittons from ARMA II but it is still not DayZ Standalone.

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

Seems like a lot of people don't get the point. I do and agree wholeheartedly with OP

The zoom speed is also something we NEED to be fixed. In Arma3 it's acceptable, in SA it's downright awful...so slooooooow

[GrappleX 354]

I <3 Gews.

[mercules 1290]

A lot of people don't get the point. 


Look, by default you have a few vision settings in DayZ:SA so to speak. 


Running around without anything pressed you have an unfocused view which gives you a wider field of view and allows you to better see all around your character. When you use the "zoom" button your character focusses in and you get what would be a normal level of viewing for most of us in real life. Various scopes allow you to go beyond what we can see with the naked eye but what some are calling zooming is what you can see with the naked eye. You can also further unfocus and zoom out a bit to take in even more of your peripheral vision. 

I agree with Gews and think having both is the best however if they don't want both they could at the very least go with consistent. Some guns narrow the focus when you look down the optics and some don't and it is really annoying. 

[bonesnap 75]

inb4 binoculars

[infiltrator 275]

Agreed on all points.

[klesh 2423]

You are straight up nerdtastic with all this gun analysis I've seen you doing Gews.  Keep up the great work.  Analysis like this is what gets the game fixed.

[Bambit (DayZ) 0]

Amazing post. I have no clue why the would change the gunplay from ArmA 2 I'm fairly sure that is the one thing no one ever complained about.

[finalstraw 193]

DayZ does have some issues with FOV and ADS. The 'zoom' on iron sights and scopes needs to be cleaned up, but the game is still early days obviously . Aimed weapons should be locked to x1 with the various scopes then adding the correct magnification.

 

I'm not a massive fan of the zoom feature out of ADS. I find it overpowered and a very artificial mechanic despite the arguments that claim it's to represent 'focus'. I don't think it should be removed but certainly toned down so I don't feel like my character has cybernetic eyes.

 

If you want to clearly identify things far in the distance then you need items like binoculars, if not you need to use take caution as you would in reality. Perhaps how these system will be finally implemented could also depend on Regular/Hardcore, with hardcore having the most accurate but locked down method.

[soulfirez 901]

i find it almost sad that on the dayz forums a campaign for proper vision when using gun sights has 2 pages after a month but something trivial like what percentage girls ya da ya da gets to 4 pages in less than a day....

 

Give me my proper focus both in and out so that gun play is at its optimum forget if you can meet girls playing this game and start caring about making the most out of the game!!!!

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

Signed.

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

Take all dem beans OP.

 

Very good post. It is an issue that definitely needs to be cleaned up.

[Bubbled Luff 27]

Never knew this was why things felt wonky with the shooting until I read this thread; just put a couple of hours playtest in subsequently and now it is obvious.

Great analysis OP, definitely needs straightening out by the devs.

[Faceshooter1 0]

This makes absolute sense. Convinced on all points. Keep this thread right at the top until something's done.

[Samuri_Bake_Pie 96]

The father of all future gun updates right here. 

[soulfirez 901]

upvoted....

 

Gews perhaps change the title from the zoom word to focused view perhaps people will understand better people think zoom and go thats not realistic when they dont realize our view is being zoomed ( retracted) back to give us closer to normal peripheral view( still less than we actually have)

[victusmortuus 1074]

I couldn't agree more, hopefully Rocket sees this.

[guyver1 70]

I agree with Gews completely.

 

Don't force me into a zoom I don't want! I want to zoom when I want to!

[deebz1234 243]

i am re approving this as well.

 

I was so annoyed last night playing with zoom and lack of zoom on irons and the fov slider...come on

 

Can the Dev's please acknowledge this and confirm its being worked on?

 

 

Edited March 3, 2014 by deebz1234

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

Can iron sights magically let you zoom IRL?

No. So why should it let you in a game were realism is so important?

I think zoom in general should be nerfed.

RDS should not have a zoom at all.

You should only be able to zoom while standing still, if you zoom while running the head bob should be extremely high and everything should shake and be hard to focus on.

[Window Licker 504]

Nice work Gews

[FrostDragon 4]

Agree with Gews.

 

Can iron sights magically let you zoom IRL?

No. So why should it let you in a game were realism is so important?

 

Me personally like to think of "zoom" option when you use iron sight as when you close your second eye and aim just with one eye. It makes sence and it's totally OK with realism. In-real life closing one eye limits your FOV like to 60% from normal. But eye have non-limited resolution, so you can't just put shade on 40% of your screen and say: "Look! It simulates one-eye vision!" - that would be totally unrealistic, because your monitor has resolution and it is not high comparing to your eye.

For those who think that zoom is unrealistic - think of it as of focus of you eye on distant object. It limits you FOV in-real life. Thats why simulating it as zoom looks realistic.

 

So having zoommed in and zoomed out positions for aiming with iron sight is similar to aiming with one eye opened and with two eyes opened respectively. In my opinion this should be done for all weapons, including PU scopes and red dots.

Edited March 10, 2014 by FrostDragon

[nuggit 246]

bump.

 

Gews, you have some good insight here  :beans:

[Hetstaine 10852]

Nice post Gews  :thumbsup: