We NEED some way to identify heros and bandits.

[skypig 139]

part of what makes this game fun is the unknown... is that fully geared dude coming down the road towards you friendly or not?

should your newly spawned character hide in the bushes or take a chance and step out into the road?

I enjoy helping new spawns.. sometimes I'll grab all the tuna I can carry and drop them on the road near spawns.

but then there's times you just get pissed off at them... was helping a freshie that was being chased by 3 zombies.. killed them and turned around to ask if he needed anything.. just in time to see him sitting down in the log out pose.. whacked him a few times till he went unconscious and left him alive to log..

there is no pure hero or pure bandit

[kichilron 8550]

If there was a real Zombie apocalypse, break down of law etc etc, would most people run round shooting people on sight willy nilly ? No. By the way, I have a knack for reading people like a book and I can smell a C*** a mile off.

 

 

I mean seriously?? you resort to insult because you can't have what the devs have already stated will NEVER be in the game??? get over yourself and your idiotic self-importance - you are just another noob that can't take the heat in the game and you sir represent a tiny minority as evidenced by the overwhelming NO to this idiotic idea. I do so hope I find you ingame so I can just shoot you in the face with no dialog just so I can hunt down your new spawn and do it again... lather, rinse, repeat.

 

 

Both of you. Stop now. I have just been in here to dish out warnings. Don't make me go any further.

[cgz_uk 19]

I mean seriously?? you resort to insult because you can't have what the devs have already stated will NEVER be in the game??? get over yourself and your idiotic self-importance - you are just another noob that can't take the heat in the game and you sir represent a tiny minority as evidenced by the overwhelming NO to this idiotic idea. I do so hope I find you ingame so I can just shoot you in the face with no dialog just so I can hunt down your new spawn and do it again... lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Sorry Elle, that wasn't an insult and definitely not one directed at you. It's just a silly Northern UK mans term for saying I can smell an idiot a mile off and I certainly did not mean that you were the idiot. You say I represent a minority, however there are tonnes of posters saying the same thing about KoS being out of control.

 

Lets not make this personal because I wasn't attacking you, even though it may have seemed that way.

 

 

Let me just add one final comment to this topic in which the op's suggestion was popular. If we shouldn't be able to spot heros and bandits, we should, at the very least be able to see / spot / recognise our friends.

Edited March 27, 2014 by cgz_uk

[Elle 562]

Sorry Elle, that wasn't an insult and definitely not one directed at you. It's just a silly Northern UK mans term for saying I can smell an idiot a mile off and I certainly did not mean that you were the idiot. You say I represent a minority, however there are tonnes of posters saying the same thing about KoS being out of control.

 

Lets not make this personal because I wasn't attacking you, even though it may have seemed that way.

 

 

Let me just add one final comment to this topic in which the op's suggestion was popular. If we shouldn't be able to spot heros and bandits, we should, at the very least be able to see / spot / recognise our friends.

people saying KoS is out of control and people saying we need some kind of identification method are 2 completely different things - you know - apples to oranges - I agree with the devs that this whole idea of identification is a bad idea - if you want to identify your friends then adopt a uniform of sorts from the items already in the game - it happens all the time - there is a group that only runs with red backpacks, they make nice vids. as for KoS - this is not the thread to even discuss it. I will say this on the subject however - KoS is now and forever part of the game, get used to it or go do something else.

 

back on topic and to reiterate what the devs have already said: identification systems are a bad idea and have no place in SA. so stop pushing a stupid idea that will never happen.

 

edit: furthermore if you have such incredible skills at "reading people like a book" then you don't need an identification system. why would you want a crutch??

Edited March 27, 2014 by Elle

[Elle 562]

Both of you. Stop now. I have just been in here to dish out warnings. Don't make me go any further.

roger boss, sorry I posted before I saw this. oh and gratz on making moderator ;)

[pillock 850]

If you see DayZ as "Heroes vs Bandits", then I can understand why you'd want a "humanity ranking" system. It makes sense, and assists that sort of gameplay.

 

But is DayZ a "Heroes vs Bandits" deathmatch? Not to me it isn't. To me, it's an apocalypse survival game - a humanity system is not just unnecessary in an apocalypse survival game, it is positively detrimental to gameplay.

 

People complain that KoS is too prevalent, and a humanity ranking system allows people to be accountable for their actions; but in an apocalypse, people are NOT accountable - there is nothing or noone to hold them accountable. The only reason for an arbitrary in-game "humanity" ranking system is so that people can justify to themselves the fact that the people they KoS are bad. It's utter hypocrisy: if you don't approve of KoS, then don't do it. Don't ask for the game to tell you it's ok to KoS certain people, but not others. And don't ask the game to tell you which people to approach, and which to avoid - if you're that paranoid, you should probably just avoid everyone.

 

The point is, you never know if you can trust someone until you get to know them. And in an apocalypse, it's more of a risk getting to know someone. You either take that risk, and accept the consequences, or you reduce the risk by avoiding or killing any other survivors you see. That's your choice: that is the game.

[Mr Sinister 167]

Where do you get those numbers? Not doubting them, just curious.

I'm not against skinning bandits. Wouldn't bother me to have targets, but the bandits here cry about that.

As long as you're playing on "official" servers, the mod system of skinning would work.

It would need some tweaking.

Those against it are simply murderers and griefers. Then you have tactical teams.

If your numbers are right, the game will soon have them playing against each other.

Basically tactical "kill teams." A few people who want some "balance" will come - and go.

OH, just by watching it on steam bud, on the front store page you have that graph of people online if you click on that it goes  through all the top played games and how many are playing them, current and peak daily. I think the skin idea is a good one really, and people cant say oh no about it really on the grounds of realism", because, this literally is not real, proved by 9/10 blowing you away on sight. When if in real life probably 1000/1001 would just be over joyed to find another human being. They dont want to paly it as realistic as it should be, so be it, give them skins. 

[Mr Sinister 167]

If there was a real Zombie apocalypse, break down of law etc etc, would most people run round shooting people on sight willy nilly ? No. By the way, I have a knack for reading people like a book and I can smell a C*** a mile off.

Not condoning you guys argument, lol. But, your right in this and even the devs are wrong if they are throwing it out on the grounds of "realism", quite simply it isnt realism. None of these arm chair psychos would be like this in a real world breakdown, infact they probably would be dead in two weeks most likely because tesco was closed. lol. Unfortunatly, this isnt realism and most likely never will be. We really gonna go hunting everyone?, oh yeah, lets, hunt that deer, take our time on the shot, skin it, carve it, oh its ready for the pot now..... *BANG* *black screen* you are dead. *sound of foot steps* *childish laughter* "thanks for the loot noob". Yeah, realism........................................................

Edited March 27, 2014 by Mr Sinister

[Darke (DayZ) 7]

NO, this doesn´t even need more explanation, simply no.

[frosti 2165]

YES this doesn't even need more explanation, simply yes.

[gibonez 3633]

I got an easy way to do it without restricting how the player looks.

 

2 seperate animation sets.

 

Red orchestra 2 does this the germans and the soviets have 2 completely different animation sets for everything from sprinting to aiming the weapon.

 

This was done to avoid friendly fire and quickly identify small characters from long distances.

 

This could be done in dayz to separate bandit from  hero.

[kichilron 8550]

Topic cleaned. Please read the rules.

[StrikeEagle 7]

There doesn't need to be a distinction really, not knowing who you're dealing with is one of the main selling points behind the game - if you take that away the game descends into almost team deathmatch from the off. I don't know if any of you have played Breaking Point for Arma3, but having the class systems over there (for me personally I should add) just doesn't seem to work - there's virtually no communication in-game as the class skins instantly tell you who to avoid and who to shoot. It pretty much loses the tension and fear over the situation.

 

Perhaps they could add some clothing that anybody is free to wear that symbolises people wanting to play as 'Heroes' - such as those arm patches / wristbands that Army Medical staff wear. Seeing as there's already UN gear in the game, adding a few more UN style clothing or badges would fit in ok. This would also allow those players who wish to wear such an item but be a bandit still do so, but it's a better solution than just solid Bandit / Hero skins.

[frosti 2165]

 

There doesn't need to be a distinction really, not knowing who you're dealing with is one of the main selling points behind the game - if you take that away the game descends into almost team deathmatch from the off

 

And "team deathmatch" will be somehow worse then regular deathmatch that we have now?

 

PS.

 

And no, it will not be a team deathmatch becouse teams will not be equal.

 

Bandits will be in minority becouse bandits will shoot other bandits while survivors and heroes will not shoot each other and will be somehow in majority, the bigger team.

 

So "normal" and friendly people will gang up and remove killers/murderers/psychos/bandits ....just like in real life.

 

And this is why KoS deathmatchers are so affraid of hero/bandit skins  and humanity system covering it in "muh sandbox" "muh real life" bullshit,

Edited June 29, 2014 by Frosti

[StrikeEagle 7]

And "team deathmatch" will be somehow worse then regular deathmatch that we have now?

 

Well the the deathmatch will never disappear no matter what you add into the game, but adding in specific clothes just cuts down on the interaction in the game. People will always KoS regardless, but forcing people to wear certain kinds of clothing due to choices - and a choice that could have been out of self-defence and wasn't wanted - will just cause more issues. It just needs to be left as it is; if people want to dress as a bandit then they can, but if they don't and would sooner dress as a police or something more friendly then they can do that too.

[TiggyPooh 134]

Perhaps they could add some clothing that anybody is free to wear that symbolises people wanting to play as 'Heroes' - such as those arm patches / wristbands that Army Medical staff wear. Seeing as there's already UN gear in the game, adding a few more UN style clothing or badges would fit in ok. This would also allow those players who wish to wear such an item but be a bandit still do so, but it's a better solution than just solid Bandit / Hero skins.

 

Did you think this through? I mean really think about it!

 

What would stop a bandit from wearing such a hero item to lure you into a trap/ambush?

 

Next argument will be a humanity system and we all know that doesn't work either, because even hero's have to sometimes shoot non bandits, because they are being a threat.

[frosti 2165]

 

People will always KoS regardless

 

No, heros will not KoS other heroes or survivors. Only freshpawn survivors that are aspiring to be bandits will KoS, if humanity and skins were added to the game.

 

Bandits will always KoS regardless and this is that.

[frosti 2165]

Next argument will be a humanity system and we all know that doesn't work either, because even hero's have to sometimes shoot non bandits, because they are being a threat.

 

If you have to do that and can't deal with such situation in other ways then shooting non-bandits becouse they are "threat" to you then maybe you don't deserver hero skin you know? Think about it.

[gibonez 3633]

There doesn't need to be a distinction really, not knowing who you're dealing with is one of the main selling points behind the game - if you take that away the game descends into almost team deathmatch from the off. I don't know if any of you have played Breaking Point for Arma3, but having the class systems over there (for me personally I should add) just doesn't seem to work - there's virtually no communication in-game as the class skins instantly tell you who to avoid and who to shoot. It pretty much loses the tension and fear over the situation.

 

Perhaps they could add some clothing that anybody is free to wear that symbolises people wanting to play as 'Heroes' - such as those arm patches / wristbands that Army Medical staff wear. Seeing as there's already UN gear in the game, adding a few more UN style clothing or badges would fit in ok. This would also allow those players who wish to wear such an item but be a bandit still do so, but it's a better solution than just solid Bandit / Hero skins.

 

It does not have to be an immediate visual representation.

 

They can do it with animations. Have completely different animations that are quite different for bandits and heros. then when you see someone from even a distance you can tell if he is a bandit or a hero by how he moves.

[TiggyPooh 134]

If you have to do that and can't deal with such situation in other ways then shooting non-bandits becouse they are "threat" to you then maybe you don't deserver hero skin you know? Think about it.

 

We sometimes have to make choices to survive ...  :beans: or  :emptycan:  B)

Someone calling "Friendly Friendly" means nothing in this game.

[frosti 2165]

It does not have to be an immediate visual representation.

 

They can do it with animations. Have completely different animations that are quite different for bandits and heros. then when you see someone from even a distance you can tell if he is a bandit or a hero by how he moves.

 

Well from a  distance it's not a problem really. But problem starts when you bump onto each other in a building. This is really where you need a system that will let you identify bandit/hero/survivor very fast or anyone who will not shoot and ask questions later will be an idiot.

[darth_vaizard 42]

This doesn't allow for a change of heart in the player.  When I played the mod and played as a bandit for a while to see what the buzz was about, I noticed that I had a noticeable amount of unwanted turban.  When I decided that this way of playing was not for me, I couldn't do a damn thing about it because of the way I looked.  People shot me on sight because I looked different from everybody else...  This was always a major gripe of mine about the mod.
 
That being said, bandits and heroes should be able to wear certain things that everybody has access to in order to distinguish themselves if they see that as something they need to do (I always envision biker gangs, or the horrible, wretched, pantless clown thugs).  All they need to do is add more clothing options and peoples creativity, or cruelty, will take care of the rest.

[frosti 2165]

 

This doesn't allow for a change of heart in the player.  When I played the mod and played as a bandit for a while to see what the buzz was about, I noticed that I had a noticeable amount of unwanted turban.  When I decided that this way of playing was not for me, I couldn't do a damn thing about it because of the way I looked.  People shot me on sight because I looked different from everybody else...  This was always a major gripe of mine about the mod.

 

Humanity system in the mod was kinda flawed and exploitable and was fixed by community made mods, for exemple in one of the custom humanity system you could redeem yourself as a bandit by becoming hardcore zombie hunter (you had to kill alot of zombies, not crazy much but enought to feel sorry for player killing) or you had to walk/run thought certian amount of kilometer to become survivor again.

[StrikeEagle 7]

So how would you acquire those skins then? A humanity system? A system that completely ruins the idea of self-defence and gives free reign for people to attack others knowing they can't fight back? Or how about when you spawn in you select whether to be a hero or bandit...but then people will just choose Hero...and still kill people.

 

Animations is fine so long as you're at a distance to see it, up close it won't change a thing.

Edit: You posted after my post. Yes, if you can change simple animations to show people standing then that's almost viable, but again, how do you achieve it? A points system or a Kill system?

 

Adding in clothes that only certain people can wear, how do you achieve that? If you kill 5 people you can no longer wear a Press Vest maybe?

 

None of the solutions actually work, none of them will change anything as people will still cut around it. Take the humanity system; what's to stop two people healing themselves up on one server, becoming heroes and gaining the hero skin then going onto another server or elsewhere in the map and slaughtering fresh-spawns because they looked like good, helpful people?

 

The only viable solution is to just add in items of clothing that look peaceful or items that bandits would wear. If you make the items only carry specific things then it might help. Maybe put in some UN Peace-Keepers uniforms but they can only hold Food / Medical supplies (like the Medical Bag) and then add in some Black Leather Riders Jackets that can only hold Grenades / Ammo for the bandits.

 

It WON'T stop KoS but it might give a fair way of telling people apart. At the end of the day though, those of you wanting to play as a Hero are playing a very difficult game where you'll need to be wary of everybody and regardless of skins, clothing or anything, that won't ever change.

 

Did you think this through? I mean really think about it!

 

What would stop a bandit from wearing such a hero item to lure you into a trap/ambush?

 

 

Yes I did as I even stated that in the post you quoted but clearly didn't read thoroughly.

Edited June 29, 2014 by StrikeEagle

[gibonez 3633]

Well from a  distance it's not a problem really. But problem starts when you bump onto each other in a building. This is really where you need a system that will let you identify bandit/hero/survivor very fast or anyone who will not shoot and ask questions later will be an idiot.

 

Animation system takes care of that too.

 

I am talking about 2 completely different sets of animations even the standing animation.

 

It should in a way that you immediately notice if the person is a bandit or a friendly just by the stance.