All guns one shot kill = more authentic

[wgaf 251]

It should be extremely hard to survive a gunshot wound in dayz. 

 

"bandage + saline bag = 100%" is really really bad design. 

 

It might not be right to have it be "one hit and you're down," but you should succumb pretty quickly. 

Edited January 13, 2014 by HCHellCaptain

[TheMachine 803]

When someone has a MLP avatar, I can't take them or anything they say seriously.

[combatcomm1 234]

Your idea of "authenticity" seems to fall under the same category as a lot of gamers file their idea of "realism", where instead of actually making things realistic and/or authentic they simply try to make things artificially harder. No one shot kills anywhere on a human is not authentic, we'd have a lot less people on this planet if it was.

 

The human body doesn't exactly like having a small chunk of lead blow a hole in its cleverly constructed self, but its not an automatic kill switch. Organs can rupture from shockwave or impact, arteries can be severed and blood can be lost, but bullets can also pass through with relatively minor (all things considered) damage. Blood clots, tissue heals, and we are incredibly resilient piles of organic matter. Hell people survive being shot in the head.

 

However calculating and efficiently modelling all of that is incredibly costly and time consuming, so for now games resort to standard "hit here, do this much damage" models; the more "advanced" ones even going into "hit here, exit here, with this from this distance and do this much damage". Expanding on this and simulating virtual organs (not rendered, but calculated in the hit detection) is probably the most authentic we're going to get in video games for a little while. And even what we have now is certainly more elegant and makes MUCH more sense than this one hit kill everywhere nonsense.

 

 

Gabby Giffords comes to mind. Shot in the head, still walking and talking (with a lisp mind you) and living her life. 

 

 

When someone has a MLP avatar, I can't take them or anything they say seriously.

 

 

RIGHT??? lol

Edited January 13, 2014 by VictorM

[Flagella 69]

The only reason I wouldn't want this in is cause the amount of kos thread would double

And there's already enough...

[gannon46 788]

Dean says he wants the game to be "authentic" rather than strictly realistic. What does that mean? I think it means provoking certain emotions in players. One of those is fear.

 

Guns are serious shit. Having a muzzle pointed in your direction is not a pleasant experience. Fortunately this is a game, but that also means players don't take things as seriously. Roll off a roof? Laugh about it. Knocked out by a fresh spawn? Laugh about it. Get shot...?

 

Getting shot at is serious business, getting hit even more so, and in the zombie apocalypse without adequate medical care it's only going to that much worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine if every single gun was an instant kill anywhere on the body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seeing someone with a gun would be a  hell of a lot more nerve wracking, and nerve wracking it should always be. Suddenly it's not a wee M4 peashooter anymore, in your mind it transforms into a full-auto M107. A Makarov would be damn serious business.

 

 

 

 

The emotions that end up being created are suddenly a lot more "authentic" eh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is certainly NOT a suggestion, just some musing on weapon damage and the meaning of "authenticity".

 

Fun fact: in ARMA 2, even the 5.56mm is a one-shot-kill anywhere on the body out to at least 800 meters on civilian characters

that a dumb idea really, a 5.56 will not kill with one shot in real life its not guaranteed. i know guys who have been shot in the line of duty by an AK, and they are alive. you just need to improve your aim i bet you sit around on mountain tops and get angry when you snipe a new spawn and hit him in is ass and he doesn't die. and by your logic a 22. caliber weapon would technically be the most dangerous weapon in the game. because of fragmenting and the bullet bouncing around your insides etc. have you even fired a weapon before do you know how they work or the physics of weapons. you should do some reading.. if you want one shot kills from shotguns(except point blank) and stupid double headshots and OP equipment then like all the others who say this on here GO BACK TO CALL OF DUTY. and i assume your a troll. so go back under your bridge.

Edited January 13, 2014 by gannon46

[somethingbloody 118]

The health and nutrition mechanics alter your chance and duration of knockout, I believe. This might effect the one-shot potential of guns.

I am not in favour of one-shot kills for everything. The ballistic helmet should be able to stop a pistol bullet at range, and a 357 round at extreme range. The rifle calibers, especially the 7.62 should be able to punch through one.

If you instituted a one shot kill mechanic the medical system would lose it's value. You would only need medicine after fighting a zombie, and they don't require more than a bandage.

[gibonez 3633]

If you instituted a one shot kill mechanic the medical system would lose it's value.

 

 

 

Thats the reason why I wish Stand alone had the mods damage model instead.

 

Nothing was really one hit kills and when you got engaged there was always a sliver of hope to come out alive.

Edited January 13, 2014 by gibonez

[paulusrojo 25]

whoa...some people don't get the whole "keep it civil" thing, do they.

 

That being said, the human body is actually not made of glass, and will not break or succumb easily. I worked as an Operation room technician for three years. I saw some horrible injuries, way worse than gunshots, and people still survived.

 

There are thousands of cases of people being able to survive multiple gunshots. Even without protective gear.

 

But this is a game, and in a post-apocalyptic world. Even if you can survive wounds from a gun, you will need medical treatment. A bandage isn't enough. And it's not like you can admit yourself to the nearest hospital.

 

All in all, making guns 1 shot kills wherever you hit is illogical. Right now the Mosin should be 1 hit kill if you hit in the torso (or head obviously), and the magnum is also quite powerful (have you ever fired one? Its awesome). The damage system is fine. Maybe they could implement a system that hurts the arms or legs if you're hit there, but I don't think it should be a priority.

[djporternz 644]

That doesn't address my point: guns would be more threatening if they were all one shot kills, guns and gunshot wounds being more threatening that they are currently would be more "authentic", in that way one shot kill = authentic.

 

Like I said this wasn't an actual suggestion.

Guns aren't threatening. People holding guns are threatening. and that has nothing to do with the gun they're holding.

 

Anyway, one shot kills are pretty rare IRL. That's why you train to double tap your targets. And then you get to go check that they aren't going to get up.

 

IRL people are more likely to comply with a perp with a knife than a perp with a gun.

[frosti 2165]

So we are going for more realistic gun shots while we keep ultra stamina and infinite jog huh?

 

First step towards realism is limiting the unlimited running. This is where realism should start at. First limit jogging then go for more.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Frosti

[paulusrojo 25]

So we are going for more realistic gun shots while we keep ultra stamina and infinite jog huh?

 

First step towards realism is limiting the unlimited running. This is where realism should start at. First limit jogging then go for more.

I agree, but as long as there is no vehicles, it's going to be a real pain in the ass to have to walk everywhere!

 

So maybe wait until vehicles are implemented, then do something about the unlimited running.

[kohmelo 4]

The health and nutrition mechanics alter your chance and duration of knockout, I believe. This might effect the one-shot potential of guns.

I am not in favour of one-shot kills for everything. The ballistic helmet should be able to stop a pistol bullet at range, and a 357 round at extreme range. The rifle calibers, especially the 7.62 should be able to punch through one.

If you instituted a one shot kill mechanic the medical system would lose it's value. You would only need medicine after fighting a zombie, and they don't require more than a bandage.

 

That 7,62mm thing is really dependant of what helmet we are talking about and are you talking about 7,62x39 or 7,62x54.

 

Most western military helmets are build to limit effectiveness of most military ammunition at "normal" combat ranges. Materials, shape and even straps are designed to help prevent head trauma.

If the helmet is a modern western military helmet, hit to it would render it useless and the helmet  has a chance that it would not be on your head anymore.Most straps on helmet are build to open when helmet is hit by heavy blow, meaning that helmet would start to move when bullet or huge sharpnel hits it.

 

Most assault rifle ammo is able to penetrate if angle and range is right but i would not say it would not kill every time but the hit trauma would make victim disoriented.

 

But if we are talking about steel helmet and like I'd say not a single chance to survive a head shot with assault rifle.

[ThatSwoleGuy 22]

I think fear is easily already simulated. The only players who don't jump at the sound or sight of a gun would be combat loggers and hackers.

Aside from that I don't even like 1 shot kills being mentioned. If we are simulating blood and broken bones then by NO means should we be unrealistically downed by 1 shot. In reality there is a very low chance that one bullet is going to instantly incapacitate you.

[razgriz93@gmail.com 228]

When someone has a MLP avatar, I can't take them or anything they say seriously.

+1

[dgeesio 1034]

making guns one shot anywhere removes any skill and just makes it pointless.

 

i think the mod had this better than standalone currently which is too easy too kill.

 

pistol shots should take 4 or 5 to body same as other guns not one bullet one kill thats xbox shit !

 

make vital organ hitboxes for one shot kills and other parts more hits.

[PhillyT 554]

Bullets are both more and less lethal that games and Hollywood pretend.  There is no such thing as a flesh wound, but there are slso times when people have been hit multiple times and not even noticed due to adrenaline.

 

One shot kills outside of head or heart shots aren't really a thing.  Yes, you can incapacitate someone and have them bleed out within a matter of seconds or minutes, but that it sort of what the unconsious mechanic is for right?

[gingatsu 68]

Well ok I just think back at my military life and remember scenes where I had seen people get shot or even people I shot myself...

 

The thing is the concept of the caliber and what it was designed for. 7.62 is mostly a killer caliber, but as said before, people dont die from a shot instantly (that depends on the spot where you got hit, the human body is really some weird thing) I have seen a colleague got shot from an AK47 at long range to the head but he survived (but yes he got unconscious by the shot and we had to carry him urgently out of the field which prooved pretty damn hard under fire, then he was transported out with heli and got operated... lucky for him, the doctor was a professional and he managed to keep him alive) But I can definitely say that he would die if he would have been hit by a Heckler&Koch G3. If you take it technically it is a matter of the rifling (numbers of groove) too... an ak 47 has 2 grooves an Heckler&koch G3 has 4 grooves so that just makes the entrance and exit of the lead more smooth or destructive. Thats one of the reasons too why 5.56 has been implemented by the NATO as regular ammo. The higher ups realised that carrying out a wounded mate out of field would take manpower and precious firepower which would weaken the enemy front (easily explained) So wounding an enemy soldier rather than killing him is more effective in the field. And you have various benefits from this, like if you be able to capture the enemy soldier, you're able to interrogate him and get precious info too.. But a hit with 5.56 to the head or to the heart or some main artery can cause quick death too... Some people are just resilient, but some people just die from shock too... so its really a hard thing about calling a shot a kill or not.

 

so what's my opinion to the matter of damage in game? it really should be worked over... the way it is now is really not realistic, nor logical at all... if I need more than 20 bullets to pump into someone just to get him killed with a m4 that is a serious problem in my opinion.And what I dont understand is I managed to kill someone with 2 shots of m4 too... so what is it about that takes 20 bullets on some and just 2 shots on another?

 

the second thing is the outcome of the damage should be more realistic too.. for example; if you shoot someone in the arm (depends on left or right) he/she shouldn't be able to use that arm, which should lead to the fact, that if you have a weapon at aim that your aim should be shaky as hell, or that you cant aim at all... if you shoot someone in the leg, he/she shouldn't be able to sprint, nor even run! he/she just should be able to hump at most... not every shot into the leg or arm leads to broken bone but to a specific percentage and the caliber of the gun it should be implemented into game.

 

And I have made this suggestion some times before but I think that the character generation as it is now is totally unrealistic. The person can make first aid like a professional medic/doctor, can loot parts from cars and helis and build those vehicle's and operate them as a master mechanic, and have the accuracy with a weapon like a soldier. In my opinion there should be classes where people has the ability to choose from professions, which makes them good at one field but not that good at the other fields. So co operation with other players becomes more important because someone who takes soldier build for example cant heal his major injuries like broken leg or weapon wound and so on (the game developers should implement chirurgical instruments into game with which you can operate the bulletwound and not otherwise... so what happens till then? you bandage and try to stop the bleeding till a professional comes) this way it makes things more realistic and more interesting... why? well because that leads people to act with other people and not KoS, they dont risk to get hurt which would lead them to die or even worse to suffer. That would stop banditry/murdering to a degree.

 

how would the professions affect the game? those with medical or mechanical background does not have an accuracy like a soldier but they do have the skills for mechanic or medical treatment which is important for survival... its like a trade between classes and logical too, make the doctor a civil doctor who got stranded somehow, make the mechanic a civil mechanic that stranded somehow so that explains why their accuracy is low (they are support classes if you want to understand this way) and the soldier has the most accuracy in game but he/she doesn't have the skills for injuries or mechanical settings (that means he can basically bandage an open wound but cannot amply medicine, because he does not have any clue how it would affect him and overdose or morphine can kill too, or overdose of medicament can kill you trough poisoning. And no one can tell me that he/she can take out a bullet out of him/herself while conscious and without shaking hands AND withstanding that hellish pain, which would result in more damage done than just removing the lead) See? everyone benefits from the other, people are more in need of interacting with each other, and senseless KoS lowers gradually coz people do not want to risk being injured.

[frosti 2165]

 

so what's my opinion to the matter of damage in game? it really should be worked over... the way it is now is really not realistic, nor logical at all... if I need more than 20 bullets to pump into someone just to get him killed with a m4 that is a serious problem in my opinion.And what I dont understand is I managed to kill someone with 2 shots of m4 too... so what is it about that takes 20 bullets on some and just 2 shots on another?

 

Damage of bullets is very random.

 

One time I was shooting a guy in Solnichniy town in the chest/shoulder area, from 10 meters, he took about like 5 bulelts, started bleeding like a fountain but he managed to run away.

 

Another time I shoot a single bullet from scoped m4 in the ass of a guy that was on bronken tanker from 300 meters and he insta died.

 

Anyway I like to see more bleeding/uncoucious/broken limbs effect then insta 1 shot deaths.

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

Roll off a roof? Laugh about it.

Errrr except in SA falling more than a meter results in insta-death

[frosti 2165]

Errrr except in SA falling more than a meter results in insta-death

Only if you don't want to.

 

Once I tried to commit suicide in Solnichniy town by jumping from tower and I had to do it 3 times to finnaly die.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

Imagine if every single gun was an instant kill anywhere on the body.

I did say this is NOT a suggestion because I have the same opinion, in terms of realism it would be stupid.

 

Then I'm struggling to see the point of this thread.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Monkfish

[Lorax 99]

I agree, but as long as there is no vehicles, it's going to be a real pain in the ass to have to walk everywhere!

 

So maybe wait until vehicles are implemented, then do something about the unlimited running.

That's the point according to Rocket, once they are there speed and duration will be limited

[rybo 171]

Only if it's totaly realistic. I know for a fact that at times it can take 2 or more 556 rounds just to put down a coyote.

 

It's all about shot placement. If its magical one shot gut kills then hell no....

Edited January 13, 2014 by RyBo

[Zollicoffer 200]

Off topic: getting shot in the gut is not a fucking joke.

[melancholymastermind 33]

Years ago when I was working on the Ultimate AI mod for Operation Flashpoint Dragon Rising (lets NOT get into a talk about this game please) and I was faced with this issue as well.

 

In the original game, getting shot, even on "hardcore" was not very realistic.  You could take more bullets than any man could and keep fighting.

 

I spent MONTHS tweaking and testing, and the end result system was mostly accepted by the players of my mod.

 

Basically, if you got hit by a bullet graze in a limb, it was a fair effect on your ability to handle your weapon, or run long distances.

A solid hit on any limb would all but put the limb out of action. An arm would see innacurate weapon fire and large sway.  Leg damage would cause even slight jogging to use all your energy (basically meaning you cant run)

A solid body hit on any non limb (that passed/missed your armor) was almost always a death shot.  Should you not die instantly, you would be bleeding and fast.  Generally you had only around 5-10 seconds to bandage yourself before the bleeding killed you. 

 

It also gave the added side effect that often you would get hit by a heavy grenade or mortar blast, but survive, only just long enough to see yourself bleed out in a second or so.  It was an effect people really liked as it felt reaslistic.  you were not instantly killed by the blast, but you are not going to survive it