the 7 SIN of STANDALONE

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

If someone pays money to host a server, they should be allowed to admin their server their way. End of story. 

 

No, it's not the end of the goddamn story. Just because you pay for something does not make you immune to the rules. I pay to rent my apartment, that doesn't mean I get to turn it into a Meth distribution center. Just because I pay for a cab doen't mean I get to shit in the backseat.

 

Rules are rules, and if administrators aren't willing to follow them then they shouldn't rent servers. "End of story."

 

 

If you don't like that server's admins, don't play there.

 

And how exactly do you expect me to tell if a server's administrators are cheating, abusive assholes before I play there?

 

You're basically asking me to wait and see if I get subjected to abuse, and then take note of the servers I'm on so I know not to go back there?

 

No. How about administrators just obey the rules? Why is that such a difficult thing to ask?

 

 

You may not have experienced this if you are a new gamer, past 5 years really.

 

I'm 34 and I've been gaming since 1986. I've also been working in the industry since 2003. So no, I'm not exactly a "new gamer."

 

Your argument that because things have happened in the past they should be allowed to happen in the future is just goofy. What does it matter how other games were run? This is DayZ. Let's talk about DayZ, not Quake 2. Especially because games in the past did not run on the same principal. There was no "central hive" in Quake or Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, and no character persistence over time. Those are major differences, and very relevant.

 

 

Also, there's a big difference between "deciding how your server is run" and breaking the rules. Administrators get to decide on plenty of options, but cheating like a pack of assholes should not be one of those options.

 

Abusive administrators hurt the game, period. I should not have to keep a list of servers run by corrupt, abusive people so I know to avoid them. Why should that burden be on the players? The administrators agree to follow the rules when they rent a server. It is their responsibility and the responsibility of the development team to see that those rules are followed and, when they are broken, that punishments are enforced. Otherwise, what's the point of having any rules at all?

Edited January 9, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Ineedscoffee 464]

Actually, you can shit in the backseat. There are consequences tho. If I pay for a server, that no ones donated for, I will admin as I see fit.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Actually, you can shit in the backseat. There are consequences tho.

 

Right. Just like there are consequences for breaking server administration rules? So we're in agreement then. Paying for something doesn't give you the right to break the rules without consequence.

[SubSt8 35]

No, it's not the end of the goddamn story. Just because you pay for something does not make you immune to the rules. I pay to rent my apartment, that doesn't mean I get to turn it into a Meth distribution center. Just because I pay for a cab doen't mean I get to shit in the backseat.

 

Rules are rules, and if administrators aren't willing to follow them then they shouldn't rent servers. "End of story."

 

 

 

And how exactly do you expect me to tell if a server's administrators are cheating, abusive assholes before I play there?

 

You're basically asking me to wait and see if I get subjected to abuse, and then take note of the servers I'm on so I know not to go back there?

 

No. How about administrators just obey the rules? Why is that such a difficult thing to ask?

 

 

 

I'm 34 and I've been gaming since 1986. I've also been working in the industry since 2003. So no, I'm not exactly a "new gamer."

 

Your argument that because things have happened in the past they should be allowed to happen in the future is just goofy. What does it matter how other games were run? This is DayZ. Let's talk about DayZ, not Quake 2. Especially because games in the past did not run on the same principal. There was no "central hive" in Quake or Counterstrike or Unreal Tournament, and no character persistence over time. Those are major differences, and very relevant.

 

 

Also, there's a big difference between "deciding how your server is run" and breaking the rules. Administrators get to decide on plenty of options, but cheating like a pack of assholes should not be one of those options.

 

Abusive administrators hurt the game, period. I should not have to keep a list of servers run by corrupt, abusive people so I know to avoid them. Why should that burden be on the players? The administrators agree to follow the rules when they rent a server. It is their responsibility and the responsibility of the development team to see that those rules are followed and, when they are broken, that punishments are enforced. Otherwise, what's the point of having any rules at all?

I will grant you that it is annoying joining a server with abusive admins, but if you have the history you have then you know that no server with an abusive admin ever survives long. I am always for more freedom in my games and that means my admins also. I hate when game developers start trying to tell me how to play my game. It's annoying and cumbersome especially when I pay for the service. 

We can strike an easy balance here. If the server admin chooses to run their servers differently from the main guidelines set by the game developers then their server must be on a private hive. But if you wish to have your server run on the main hive then you must follow their guidelines. Simple and elegant solution that allows admins to admin their servers their way, while not endangering players characters on potential abusive admin's servers.

[SubSt8 35]

When it comes right down to it I feel that if someone pays to host a service for others to use, they should be allowed to set the rules. I host my own teamspeak server and if someone came in and told me I am not allowed to use a certain codec, or name a channel a certain way then I would probably just stop hosting the teamspeak server. It's not worth the hassle or money to have no control over a service I am providing other players for free.

You say admins still will have a lot of power, even if we force them into a certain set of guidelines. I doubt that, when I look at past games and see how server owners are treated by the game developers as nothing more then their way of hosting servers without having to pay for them themselves. This is becoming an industry STANDARD now, when you wish to have your own game server you are allowed very little freedom for that server. Take Battlefield 3 and 4, a server owner is allowed to choose the name, the MoTD and the map cycle. That is it. But Counter strike servers that I have hosted in the past I could control every aspect of the game, from serious concerns like maps and guns to silly things like gravity and friction. 

The point is that I see game developers going down this dark path and I am hopeful that this game doesn't follow suit. I have no interest in owning a server or admining for a server that I am given very little control over except that I am forced into the responsibility of paying for the server and making sure there are no cheaters.

I have no issue with owning those responsibilities but if I want to kick an ass-hat for being an ass-hat or make it so every other week we only use pistols on the server, I want the power to be able to do that. You say we will still be able to, but history proves you wrong.

[Sinphaltimus 262]

Read the thread. We literally just got done talking about why that's not going to happen.

I did and read a lot of what people think about it but that doesn't mean it will never happen. I've played the mod outside of steam and when released on steam and now the alpha standalone. I'm also a developer. As much fun as it is to develop a game you love and you know others are loving also, the profit is what matters and player options well draw in more customers without money grabbing gimmicks.

Allow day light out night time only servers, put the server time in the server browser and if you want to encourage a certain type of behavior, add achievements. People love achievements. Make some only achievable at night or during the day or any way possible. It's alpha, I don't think anyone dating "they'll never do that" is a very open way to discuss development and ways to make it an even bigger success than it already is and will become.

For instance, hardcore only servers for those who want the super real hard as Hell game experience.

P.S.- on my phone. Sorry for autocorrect typos. More of a pain to fix than leave.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Sinphaltimus

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

When it comes right down to it I feel that if someone pays to host a service for others to use, they should be allowed to set the rules.

 

Then we will always fundamentally disagree on the role of server administrators for DayZ. Administrators pay to host the game; they are not members of the development team or game designers. The only powers they should have to decide how the game gets played are the ones directly granted by the developers themselves - 1st/3rd person, number of slots, etc.

 

They should not be permitted to "set the rules." That's the job of the designers of the game. As soon as you allow administrators to do it, then you get rules like "No PvP" or "Only Clan Members Allowed" or "No Snipers!" and these fundamentally undermine the spirit of the game and corrupt the designer's intent which could easily, over time, weaken the franchise.

 

If you want to decide how the game gets played, put an application in at Bohemia or start your own company.

 

You say we will still be able to, but history proves you wrong.

 

I actually didn't say that, nor do I think you should have those powers. It's not your game to modify as you see fit.

 

If you're "not interested" in hosting unless you can tinker with the game until it's not even really the same game anymore, then just don't do it. But don't act like it's your inalienable right to do so, or that it's somehow evil or corrupt for Bohemia or Dean to want people to run DayZ servers in a certain way.

 

It's their franchise, and they should get to decide how it is experienced by customers.

[Tyrael75 (DayZ) 21]

here is my 7 sin for standalone IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER ;)

 

#1 combat logging

 

#2 server hopping

 

#3 gamma exploiter

 

#4 ghosting

 

#5 script/hack cheater

 

#6 gear duping

 

#7 admin loot cycle restart player kick abuse

 

 

all this is unacceptable for me and if you doing any of this i hope you feel maximum shame :blush:

 

so what you think about when you seeing this list?

 

is possible for devs to make fix every one? :)

 

is some we need to accept is here for ever never stop? :|

 

do i miss some? :huh:

 

what is worse thing for you guys?

No offense but do you ever get tired of typing? No really... do you ever stop bitching and complaining? Threads/posts you make are relatively annoying, instead of bashing and flaming everyone else, why not actually suggest ideas or not break some of the rules the forums have?

[Mdogg2005 447]

If someone pays money to host a server, they should be allowed to admin their server their way. End of story

 

Lol no. 

[Element47 2480]

admin abuse is the trade off of community-hosted servers.

 

no matter how strict the policing, it will always be reactive. no matter how fast the servers get abandoned by the community, there will always be the next admin that acts far out, and thus will ruin a day or two for some players. its a fact, its been so since the dawn of online interaction, there has always been admin abuse, be it BBSes, MUDs, IRC networks, mailing lists, or more recently all kinds of modern online games.

 

it doesnt really matter if it is a server with its own private hive. but servers connected to the public hive impact everybody playing this game. an abusive admin who kicks strangers to play with his peers will embrace the fact, that strangers do not join his server anymore. he and his group will be able to take advantage of an isolated, "private" server and then join other servers at their leisure, thus creating an unfair advantage. if you or me change every single aspect of our q3a, hl2 or cs server, we do not potentially affect every other player on every other public server. dayz admins on public hive however can create a tremendous imbalance, like securily equipping and transporting a squad to a certain spot within minutes, then joining another server to cause mayhem.

 

 

 

If the server admin chooses to run their servers differently from the main guidelines set by the game developers then their server must be on a private hive.

 

we are in agreement here. we will see private hives with its own rules and mods and additions in the future. but official servers need to adhere to certain rules to be able to offer a consisitent service to all players, which is only fair.

 

as for managed hosting becoming the industry standard, i cant really blame them. with the advent of social networks and the shift of video games into the mainstream of entertainment, bad reputation can make or break companies. its understandable, that they want to control every part of the user experience, and managed hosting with large companies allows them to do that. giving out dedicated server files and thus allowing server performance and thus, user experience vary massively is a gamble. i used to host trackmania servers among others, and it was fascinating to witness how two servers on machines in the same rack could offer massively different performance based on the way they were admined. i knew people who ran fxp sites on the same machines they ran their gameservers, you can imagine how network performance varied there.

[SubSt8 35]

 

Then we will always fundamentally disagree on the role of server administrators for DayZ. Administrators pay to host the game; they are not members of the development team or game designers. The only powers they should have to decide how the game gets played are the ones directly granted by the developers themselves - 1st/3rd person, number of slots, etc.

 

They should not be permitted to "set the rules." That's the job of the designers of the game. As soon as you allow administrators to do it, then you get rules like "No PvP" or "Only Clan Members Allowed" or "No Snipers!" and these fundamentally undermine the spirit of the game and corrupt the designer's intent which could easily, over time, weaken the franchise.

 

If you want to decide how the game gets played, put an application in at Bohemia or start your own company.

 

 

 

I actually didn't say that, nor do I think you should have those powers. It's not your game to modify as you see fit.

 

If you're "not interested" in hosting unless you can tinker with the game until it's not even really the same game anymore, then just don't do it. But don't act like it's your inalienable right to do so, or that it's somehow evil or corrupt for Bohemia or Dean to want people to run DayZ servers in a certain way.

 

It's their franchise, and they should get to decide how it is experienced by customers.

 

If you wont allow server owners to run the server the way they wish to, how do you propose they incentivize people to buy servers? Game developers should decide MANY of the games major factors. But in a sandbox type game like this, the server owners need to set a great amount of the rules also. Other sandbox games that do this right? Minecraft, Garrys Mod, Terraria, Starbound, GTA. GTA does the servers just about perfect, from what I remember of GTA 4, making a game consisted of either choosing several game types, choosing the guns, cars, weather, ect. This was a structured way to give server admins (you didn't own a GTA server, you run ran one really) power to decide how their game would be played. And then there was the sandbox game type that just allowed you to do what ever you wish.

Oh and DayZ mod also. How silly of me to miss that game, being able to run a server there you could have the server settings however you wished, and do what ever you wanted, AND had stupidly powerful admin tools that LITERALLY allowed admins to cheat, if they wanted.

What you want and are asking for are servers to be run as if this game was an MMO. It isn't. If this WAS an MMO then they would host all their servers, people couldn't spend money to setup their own servers. They would have 100% control of the game and how it is played. This isn't how they want to run their game and asking for them to suddenly enforce global rules on all servers is just ridiculous. People wouldn't choose to spend money on the servers, that support their game, if they couldn't run them the way they see fit.|

We wont ever see eye to eye, but I don't want you to think this is just a cop out. We have to agree to disagree on this and see how rocket and bohemia choose to handle the situation. My money is that they will side with what they have been doing, allowing server admins and owners to decide how to run those servers.

[JPWiser 251]

Ugh, that's bullshit. Admins shouldn't be paying for the right to abuse the rules. Allowing it is just going to encourage it; the more people see admins getting away with whatever they want, the more they're going to want to rent a server so they and their friends can turn around and be abusers. It will be a vicious cycle and have long-term implications for the health and integrity of the title.

 

Admin abuse is easily managed; there's no reason we should let admins just run rampant across the game as a "trade off" for their hosting. There are plenty of honest, rule-abiding hosts willing to put servers up without the intent to use their position for an advantage.

 

First of all, loot should not be tied to server restart. Servers should restart completely empty as I suggest in my thread "Loot: Mysterious and Unpredictable." There should be no advantage gained by a restart. In fact, it should be disadvantageous (i.e., loot should take longer to spawn at first than it does on subsequent cycles).

 

Second, all kicks, bans and restarts should be tracked by the hive and audits should be conducted occasionally on servers which come in high above average for any one of these categories. Some servers probably have 5-10 times the number of restarts as "normal" servers, so they would be easily identified and isolated and if abuse is found, hive access should be suspended and eventually revoked. Same with kicking. Most servers should kick a few players each day, maybe a dozen tops. Servers that come in with 100+ kicks are obvious abusers.

 

All the team has to do is show a little balls and stand up to Admins.

 

Would never rent a server if I was told I am not allowed to restart it as I saw fit.  Or kick someone I thought should be kicked etc.  If you want to rent a server and be the only person to ever play on it that should definitely be an option for you if you chose to do so.  Without being able to password your server your only left with a couple options.  If you get kicked from a server cause that specific admin would like to have a lone wolf server just for himself, its his dam money and he should be allowed to without question, I mean there is only what? Hundreds of other servers to chose from.

 

Why would you even want to play on a server where the admin doesnt want others to play on it?

 

/boggle

[JPWiser 251]

Id also like to add, is there a rule somewhere that a server admin is not allowed to kick someone, or reset his server?  I must have missed the fine print.

[PongoZ 127]

The intent is not to allow you to avoid night servers, so I seriously doubt they're going to give you a way to do so.

 

In fact, I suspect the new server queuing system is going to make it quite difficult to keep playing the game like this.

 

My question to you is are you logging out immediately upon joining a server?

 

Night time is far brighter now than it ever was in the mod. I have not seen ANY "pitch black" servers.

 

However, you must give your eyes time to adjust. After logging in it can sometime take 5-15 seconds before I can see properly, but it always comes around and it's never inky black anymore.

Sure hope your wrong.

[Hetstaine 10852]

It won't, and it shouldn't. You're both doing the same thing. One person is hopping for loot, one is hopping because they're too scared to play at night.

 

Neither of these practices should be allowed or encouraged.

 

(Sorry for double I thought I was editing).

 

 Agreed.

[djporternz 644]

New thread, same old crap. Nothing new here!

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Id also like to add, is there a rule somewhere that a server admin is not allowed to kick someone, or reset his server?  I must have missed the fine print.

 

It's not fine print. It's regular-sized print in the server hosting rules. You're only allowed to kick for racism, hate speech or cheating. You can't just kick whoever you want.

 

Would never rent a server if I was told I am not allowed to restart it as I saw fit.  Or kick someone I thought should be kicked etc. 

 

Then don't rent a server, dude. If your only motivation is to be a little cheating ass, then the game is better off without you as a host.

 

If you get kicked from a server cause that specific admin would like to have a lone wolf server just for himself, its his dam money and he should be allowed to without question

 

No, he definitely shouldn't. It's his money but not his software.

 

Why would you even want to play on a server where the admin doesnt want others to play on it?

 

I don't want an admin and 10 of his friends to play on a server alone, gear up until they have unlimited ammo and all the best items, then go out into the regular servers and trounce all over people.

[SyrupCakes 1]

This is all that needs to be said:

 

Administrators should have all powers except for those that give them an unfair advantage over the rest of the community.

 

For example they should have the ability to:

 

Decide if it is night or day

Decide if it is 1st person or 3rd person

 

Examples of things they should not have the ability to do:

 

Create a server that is private, gain equiptment, and then hop over to a public server.

Spawn things for themselves or others

Adjust the amount of Zombies on a server (Making loot easier to obtain).

 

The idea of this game is to create an experience where gaining equiptment and status means something. Being able to cheat or make a game easy is just going to ruin the game for everyone. Plain and Simple.

Edited January 10, 2014 by SyrupCakes

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

When I buy DayZ, the game,  and use it to connect to a random  DayZ server I'm entitled to a standard, vanilla DayZ experience representing Developers vision every time. No friends only, no 24/7 day, no 1000+ vehicles. 

 

I also think modders should not be able to use DayZ name in their mod as it may deviate from standard experience, same way as Arma 3 Breaking Point and Arma 3 Epoch have dropped DayZ from their names.

[Chiapet 3]

I currently disagree with the night. I cant see anything, and i mean ANYTHING, and to me thats not fun nor realistic. Ive been out in BFE with no lights around and can still see way better then in this game, the stars and especially a moon give decent light, i just tried pumping my gamma and brightness to top levels, and it was just BARELY playable. I could see stuff kinda around me, but a zombie with a tree or any object behind it would be invisible. was plenty scary, had no idea where i was going, had to use my light when searching for stuff in houses, and was perfect for the mood and playable. maybe its my monitor that makes it that hard to see, i dunno, but currently all i can make out is the difference between the sky and ground( and only because of the visible stars).

 

So until they make night exceptable ill be force to crank up my lighing and gamma, and since i dont like that, I just avoid night servers currently. 

[ninjacalypse 551]

Kamikaze turbo running fresh spawns.

 

...is hilarious...especially when they're humming Sonic music. :P

 

[Mcleane 24]

I would consider hacking to me the mortal sin in this list, although comparing to the mod I have not seen that many hackers in my personal experience of the game so far or anything that i can instantly say is a hack and is not just a bug, a lot of my friends say they same so in comparison to the mod I think hacking has been greatly reduced even though people still come on the forums to moan about it which I can understand I still think there cases are rather isolated.

 

I can imagine though that all your list can at least be reduced if not totally fixed e,g play on a 1st person server to stop ghosting

[beani5003 28]

I'm in a clan, we want to run a server, a PRIVATE server that anyone can join that is not connected to the hive.

As we are paying for it, and me specifically, I want to control, everything, and i mean everything.

I want to edit the map, if it strikes me i want to be be able to put a line of barracks from elektro to berezino, not that I would but you get the point.

I want to be able to add scripts onto it, I want to be able to set the time etc.

Hell, i want to be able to determine whats in the loots tables for where, or spawn stuff in if I need it.

I know this sounds like an entitlement rant, but its not, if I pay for a server, that's not connected to the hive, why can't i do whatever i want with it?

As for servers that are connected to the hive, that's a privileged that should come come with responsibility as you would gain traffic coming through your server due to being connected to the hive. So you shouldn't be able to edit the map, run scripts or have admin tools, you should however be able to kick/ban people at will (this would have to be monitored, if abused you lose the right to do it) or set the restart cycle (minimum of 2 hours up time before restart) or have 1PP and 3PP only settings.

just my 2 cents

[DayzForumer 284]

here is my 7 sin for standalone IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER ;)

 

#1 combat logging

 

#2 server hopping

 

#3 gamma exploiter

 

#4 ghosting

 

#5 script/hack cheater

 

#6 gear duping

 

#7 admin loot cycle restart player kick abuse

 

 

all this is unacceptable for me and if you doing any of this i hope you feel maximum shame :blush:

 

so what you think about when you seeing this list?

 

is possible for devs to make fix every one? :)

 

is some we need to accept is here for ever never stop? :|

 

do i miss some? :huh:

 

what is worse thing for you guys?

Gamma exploiting isn't really that effective, just makes the game look like shit.

[wild_man 4442]

Gamma exploiting isn't really that effective, just makes the game look like shit.

I agree 100% is make game looking like shit :D

but also is very effective making everything easier for see :|

this is double with no moon black night time what happen sometime player who do this NEVER NEED FLASHLIGHT

 

so is powerful exploit when use against players who doing honest way >:(

Edited January 10, 2014 by KoS