Accuracy comparison: DayZ vs ARMA 2

[libertine 351]

Why is an AR-15 more accurate than an M4, aren't they the same more or less?

 

Just occurred to me that i wouldn't mind an increase in accuracy in exchange for not returning the recoil back down at all.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Thane

[Chiapet 3]

Why is an AR-15 more accurate than an M4, aren't they the same more or less?

 

Just occurred to me that i wouldn't mind an increase in accuracy in exchange for not returning the recoil back down at all.

 

 

no they are not. military wise the M4 has looser specs then something you might buy at a sporting goods store or gun shop.

the AR15 is semi auto. this means you only put rounds through it as fast as you pull the trigger. you can get heavier barrels for the AR15 as well, crome lined cryo cooled etc.

 

the M4 Has a heavy barrel, but it is "looser" this is because it is a fully auto rifle( the ingame rifle being the M4A1) if the barrel were tighter it would heat up and destroy the barrel much faster. thus it has to be loose in order to shoot as fast as it does. the M16 military spec rifle originally was only required to have like an 8 MOA, or so I have read. again this is for mass produced military spec. many times a m4 may have better then 4 moa, even 3 and rarely 2,but its spec was like 4. the M4A1 was built and specced for CQB engagements because the M16 barrel was considered to long for that role effectively. Its made for basically breaching and such where maneuverability and lots of lead are key.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Chiapet

[Celt (DayZ) 30]

I like the system as it is now. Snipers are acurate enough to shoot static target on reasonable distance, and M4 is not just about point and click. You have to think how to move properly with it, how to close distance on your target, and it makes you think if and how you want to fight groups of people.

I don't like the idea of more swaying of the croshair some people are suggesting. For me it's just annoying as hell, and weird. Its not a problem to point at something - try that with a laser pointer. I guess inexperienced shooter would have much more trouble with staying on target while pulling the trigger, especialy with handguns.

I prefer being able to point at my target quickly and miss certain percentage of shots when not in favourable position over spending time chasing crosshair on my screen. Especialy when different weapon accesories dictate different usage of weapon.

The main difference here is that with sway and recoil, you can tell when you're going to be less accurate. It may be annoying, but I think that it's more annoying to not know what to expect when I pull the trigger.

 

When it comes right down to it, the whole trick of firearms is being able to point at something. It's a lot harder than you might think, especially since a typical gun is heavier and bulkier than a laser pointer, and what you're aiming at is probably a good bit further away.

 

As long as sway is controllable (through breath control and stance) you shouldn't have too much of a problem lining up a shot. Getting a quick shot off may be difficult, but that's kinda the point- accuracy isn't just a cone of fire, it's about how you handle the gun.

[korpisoturi (DayZ) 127]

Accuracy is fine, come on MP parts for m4 are really really easy to find and make the gun really accurate. Just shot a zombie from 700m with m4 so this thread is useless.

[gibonez 3633]

the M4 has a MOA of around 4 at 100 yards.

 

 

M4 is substantially more accurate than that.

 

Even the ak47 and ak 74 are around 3 moa.

 

M4 with mil spec ammo is about 1.5 moa to 2 moa.

[Chiapet 3]

M4 is substantially more accurate than that.

 

Even the ak47 and ak 74 are around 3 moa.

 

M4 with mil spec ammo is about 1.5 moa to 2 moa.

 

um no.

[Celt (DayZ) 30]

Accuracy is fine, come on MP parts for m4 are really really easy to find and make the gun really accurate. Just shot a zombie from 700m with m4 so this thread is useless.

 

Main issue is how inaccurate the M4 is by default.

It's a frustrating change from realistic ballistics and sensible effects in Arma 2 to a RPGish, nonsensical use of attachments.

[silversx 75]

yea the m4 default is way fucked up .. not so much the other guns but stand 20 meters from a wall and shoot it down sight with default m4 and you'll lol cuz it's like a shotgun 

[Solopopo 330]

I think the accuracy is so bad because there are many new things that influence accuracy. If you are laying prone with an m4, with a pristine bipod and scope, and you are not out of breadth, and you are perfectly healthy, you won't miss. I'd like to see a test performed where these factors are considered. 

Edited January 11, 2014 by Solopopo

[Solopopo 330]

edit: double post

Edited January 11, 2014 by Solopopo

[korpisoturi (DayZ) 127]

I just shot a zombie from 700m with m4. All  MP parts, pristine acog and bipod. These parts are not that hard to find and they make the gun accurate enough.

Regular parts m4 and its inaccuracy affects gameplay and forces people to either getting closer or prolonging gun fights, which I think feels better than *bang* your dead in 10 sec gunfights. Even though the "losing" side dies and loses his stuff, he still gets to feel that he actually fought back.

 

This accuracy was rockets gameplay decision, and in my opinion a right one. Stop complaining about it so much and learn it, use it. Go one time to mil spawn and get all MP parts.

 

But yeah fnx accuracy is nuts but i have actually never used it so far away that it had been a problem.

[-Gews- 7443]

I just shot a zombie from 700m with m4. All MP parts, pristine acog and bipod. These parts are not that hard to find and they make the gun accurate enough.

Not very relevant to the discussion of inaccuracy since no one has a problem with the accuracy of Magpul™ and bipod (unless they mean "too accurate"). You'd probably have the accuracy to probably shoot a zombie from 1000 meters with that combo, if you could see him.

Regular parts m4 and its inaccuracy affects gameplay and forces people to either getting closer or prolonging gun fights, which I think feels better than *bang* your dead in 10 sec gunfights. Even though the "losing" side dies and loses his stuff, he still gets to feel that he actually fought back.

It affects gameplay by making me dump an M4 carbine for an old bolt-action at the first opportunity. Not very authentic if you ask me.

The point you are making about the "gameplay value" of poor accuracy also runs contrary to your comment about Magpul parts and bipods... as well as the Mosin-Nagant's 1-shot kill capabilities and far superior accuracy.

According to your above statement these magically accurized things would logically dimish people's gameplay, no?

This accuracy was rockets gameplay decision, and in my opinion a right one. Stop complaining about it so much and learn it, use it. Go one time to mil spawn and get all MP parts.

I did learn it, hence the thread. I don't want that flashy Magpul stuff to be a requirement for my gun to be effective and I don't want the nice weapons simulation of this infantry-based "anti-game" to be turned into some kind of arcade-like attachment-hunting nonsense.

[Bishop1664 5]

i personally love the dispersion in the SA. it makes firefights so much more interesting, having rounds whizzing past your head and all around you rather than getting instantly headshotted. And who's to say all these survivors are trained marksmen!? surely most of them are just random civilians who arent trained with weapons?

[-Gews- 7443]

And who's to say all these survivors are trained marksmen!? surely most of them are just random civilians who arent trained with weapons?

Baaaaaack to the very first post:

 

A few people have put forth the argument that players are "untrained" or that the massively increased dispersion is to simulate the "stress of combat.

No. If that was the case, then why:

-is the Mosin way more accurate than the M4?

-are survivors less stressed or better trained when holding a Mosin?

-why does adding a muzzle compensator or Magpul stock dramatically increase the accuracy?

-why does a bipod turn the Mosin into a de facto M24?

[Celt (DayZ) 30]

What I really want is for using a gun to be hard. I don't want it to be arbitrarily inaccurate unless you have the right parts; I want it to require a certain level of personal skill.

 

As it is now, with a bipod and a proper scope anyone can make a 400m or greater headshot with the Mosin or M4. It's not a question of "untrained civilians", because as soon as you find the right attachments you're near 100% accurate.

 

I want to see a complex, difficult system for ballistics and weapon handling, in the spirit of the medical system or all the other complicated systems in the standalone. Don't make it so that you "gain experience" and gain accuracy over time; make it detailed enough that the actual player must gain personal experience and learn to shoot more accurately. Breath control and stance aren't a very big factor in DayZ right now, but they could be very important factors in this system.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Celt

[gangrenetvp 74]

I say take 100 random people from the street, a random sampling including soccer moms and have them go shooting down the range... I think you'll find the spread worse that what your depicting here. Low accuracy, I say good... that will force encounters to be up close and personal.

[gangrenetvp 74]

 then why:
-is the Mosin way more accurate than the M4?

Well, the Mosin is 8.8 lbs and about 48.5 inches long while the M4 is only 6.36 lbs and about 33 inches long...

More weight = more inertia, hence more stability... it's way longer so it's more apparent that you have it pointed in the approximate direction or not...

[-Gews- 7443]

I say take 100 random people from the street, a random sampling including soccer moms and have them go shooting down the range... I think you'll find the spread worse that what your depicting here. Low accuracy, I say good... that will force encounters to be up close and personal.

And then I give those soccer moms bipods and they suddenly expert snipers capable of making 800-meter headshots with Mosin-Nagants?

Or I put Magpul furniture on their ARs and they are suddenly capable of putting every shot within the 9-ring?

then why:

-is the Mosin way more accurate than the M4?

Well, the Mosin is 8.8 lbs and about 48.5 inches long while the M4 is only 6.36 lbs and about 33 inches long...

More weight = more inertia, hence more stability... it's way longer so it's more apparent that you have it pointed in the approximate direction or not...

Nooooooooo.

You're trying to justify something in the game, instead of completely ignoring what's in the game and focusing on real life only.

Just face it - the standalone's accuracy values don't make any sense and they were never intended to.

[Celt (DayZ) 30]

I still haven't really heard any response from the devs about what was intended and what their future plan is. I'd like to know that they've heard about this issue, at least.

[gibonez 3633]

I still haven't really heard any response from the devs about what was intended and what their future plan is. I'd like to know that they've heard about this issue, at least.

 

Well in the new patch they made the .45 more accurate so maybe that is a sign of things to come.

 

Really hope they do not stick with their stupid unrealistic accessories = accuracy crap.

 

Handling, how fast the rifle comes up to irons, and weapon sway should be the only things affected by accessories.

[vaelorth 8]

And then I give those soccer moms bipods and they suddenly expert snipers capable of making 800-meter headshots with Mosin-Nagants?

Or I put Magpul furniture on their ARs and they are suddenly capable of putting every shot within the 9-ring?

Nooooooooo.

You're trying to justify something in the game, instead of completely ignoring what's in the game and focusing on real life only.

Just face it - the standalone's accuracy values don't make any sense and they were never intended to.

I think you have the right idea friend. Just something I thought I would add. Those soccermoms and the average everyday people are the people who are gone pretty much within a few days within the apocalypse hitting the ground. I can't remember how long DayZ is made to take place afterward but lets say its a year. Most of those soccermoms and people who aren't trained to survive and handle a weapon at atleast and amatuer level are long gone.

[gibonez 3633]

I think you have the right idea friend. Just something I thought I would add. Those soccermoms and the average everyday people are the people who are gone pretty much within a few days within the apocalypse hitting the ground. I can't remember how long DayZ is made to take place afterward but lets say its a year. Most of those soccermoms and people who aren't trained to survive and handle a weapon at atleast and amatuer level are long gone.

 

You would be surprised soccer moms are quite robust.

[zaphodity (DayZ) 41]

As far as accuracy goes in DayZ, you would have more luck hitting the target if you actually threw the M4 at them. What makes it even worse is that on top of the poor accuracy of the weapons, you have to take server lag, glitches and desync into account as well. At the end of the day, the most accurate weapons in DayZ are either the fire axe or throwing up.

 

On a lighter note, I am still looking for a burlap bag for my head. Once that's been taken care of, my visual awesomeness will be complete.

 

Resplendent in haute couture autumn cammo, and a burlap bag from The House Of DayZ.

Edited February 7, 2014 by zaphodity

[adman85 1]

I created an account just to declare my love for you for doing all of this research and testing Gews.

 

You have my beans good sir, and my thanks.

 

Keep up the good work :D

[degoe 20]

The only thing I want is realistic accuracy. Exactly the same as in RL. Im not a ballistics engineer/soldier so I dont know what it should be like so I trust in the bohemia developers to put the most realistic data (like in their military simulators) into Dayz as well.

Every kind of human incompetence in shooting should be represented by weapon sway.

I can only hope this will also be affected by grips, health, stamina etcetera.