Accuracy comparison: DayZ vs ARMA 2

[bummel313 12]

Sounds like someone has been outplayed by bandits too many times :(

 

Thats not the point. The point is the vanilla arma2 weapon zeroing is just too easy. Ever seen a precision rifle before? Let me tell you there are no markings like "500m, 600m,etc."  on the scope.

Getting your hands on a precision rifle doesn't mean you can hit shit with it at 600m+. Its skills that make the hit in the end. With the system like it was in the mod every 10yo could make a shot at these ranges. That made sniper rifle some sort of OP in the mod. Not saying arrrr arrr nerf the sniper rifles. Just saying it should take some skill and practice to operate them.

[filippunander@gmail.com 0]

The M4 test is incorrect, it has amazing accuracy and you can land headshots hundred of meters away with pristine parts, mp handguard and stock and preferably an acog sight for precision.

 

I have a feeling you tested the rifles when they were stock, I would retest them with pristine parts, and for the mosin that would be only the bayonet though.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

We need these to be like in real life or in Arma. The only dispersion should be the small MOA that happens in real life, sway and wind.

The values are now way extracted. It's now like CS, CoD or BF.

[samzala 74]

I have a feeling you tested the rifles when they were stock...

 

Terrible, terrible, terrible accuracy with the default attachments. It's (M4) worse than many of the pistols in the mod.

You don't say.

[-Gews- 7443]

The M4 test is incorrect, it has amazing accuracy and you can land headshots hundred of meters away with pristine parts, mp handguard and stock and preferably an acog sight for precision.

 

No point testing with those parts, because accuracy is fine with them - there's no issue with it. The same goes for bipods.

 

The accuracy issue is with the stock parts, or worse-than-stock parts (ie, CQB butt stock).

[Mutonizer 78]

Quite like the dispersion personally, even if not "realistic" I think it simulates the fact that in stress combat situations, most people even trained for years, can't really shoot for shit and mostly just spray around whatever's available.

Was reading an article couple months ago about the numbers of bullets used by various troops in Afghanistan. The numbers were so crazy that countries like the UK (and others) had to stop making the numbers public because it was not in tune with the "hearts and mind" campaign.

Was stuff like 4.7 million bullets in less than 2 years for Canada, 12+ million in less than three years for the UK. For US, there was a study included that estimated to 250.000 bullets per insurgent wounded/killed in Afghanistan and that the US army spent 1.5+ billions (with a B ) bullets a year there, just for small arms.

In games, this fact is rarely represented, so I'm sort of glad it's there in DayZ, though of course it might not even be the actual intent.

 

Plus I think it's funnier to be under fire, than to be shot in DayZ, it's way more stressful. To just die in one round from nowhere is just...boring to me :)

Edited January 4, 2014 by Mutonizer

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Probably not doable with the arma engine, but who knows?

 

I really don't know where people get this idea, that because it's the RV engine, x or y feature automatically isn't possible. If you were paying attention, someone posted a video of A.C.E mod in this thread which features all those things you mentioned. It's completely possible. It's already been done.

Edited January 4, 2014 by SalamanderAnder

[Furtherado 100]

Guns should be more visceral IMO, you should really feel it when you fire a high-powered gun aka alot of recoil. They should make alot more noise, and bullets should be able to go through alot more stuff. Say you`re shooting at two people sitting on a motorbike from behind, if you hit, you should be hitting both. The same goes for people hiding behind walls, especially thin materials. This doesn`t work when you can 3rd person though, or it`s just ridiculous. The same goes for tactics like blindfiring, or throwing grenades from cover. 

 

Firing from a standing position while under any effects that increase your breath rate should be extremely inaccurate, and before you can shoot from crouched or prone stance, you would need a few seconds to steady your gun. You could ofc start shooting as soon as you assume one of these stances, but it would be very inaccurate, and increase the time it would take to steady the gun. Those of you who are conditioned FPS players shouldn`t have a problem killing close to mid-range targets even with a shaky aim, but it would be a big problem to pick off long range targets. 

[Merrick362 (DayZ) 263]

What stance were these shots taken from? I have no issues at all with the accuracy (except the pistols). At 500m a person would be smaller than the width of the fore sight of the M4. You shouldn't be using a carbine to engage at that kind of range anyway.

[-Gews- 7443]

What stance were these shots taken from? I have no issues at all with the accuracy (except the pistols). At 500m a person would be smaller than the width of the fore sight of the M4. You shouldn't be using a carbine to engage at that kind of range anyway.

 

No shots taken.

 

Default accuracy is pretty bad at all ranges, at a mere 100 yards the dispersion would be over 42 inches... compared to:

 

7 inches with Magpul parts

6 inches in ARMA 2

13 inches in the ACE 2 mod (which took combat stress into account)

[Arty (DayZ) 47]

Civilian has nothing to do with it and is an illogical excuse. What happens when someone leaves the military? They become a civilian. Civilians hunt for food and sport. Getting a sight picture with any rifle is pretty basic since they all work off the same principle: match front sight picture with back sight configuration.

 

The back story for our characters has never been established. Until a dev comes out and states, "Your characters are untrained office workers that lived in suburbia and do not know how to use a rifle.", the civilian excuse won't work. If they do state such a thing then we shouldn't know how to replace an engine in a car, fly helicopters, or use most medical gear/medicine adequately without harming ourselves.

 

The dispersion is crap and needs to be adjusted sometime, but its not a priority for now which is fine. Its a known issue. Gews is just giving us concrete evidence proving it. Thanks Gews.

 

It was stated by rocket that he wanted the "military" aspect of the game toned down. We are all civilians, some doctors, other lawyers, teachers, solders and so on. This is not a story game, and your char will not have a background. That's your job.

 

 

In Arma 2 they used soldiers for motion capture. So, if you look at how your char moves in Dayz and SA, you can see that in SA you move more like a normal guy than a military soldier.

[Arty (DayZ) 47]

I think it is way too early to tell how accurate guns can be at 500m or over. You have to consider your char state, does he have a healthy trait, does it help you aim. Is having a full stomach help you with your shooting rather than being hungry/thursty. What about attachments, how do they work. Do different types work better than others. How about weapons/attachments being damaged, does that account for accuracy at the current state of the game. 

[bummel313 12]

 

It was stated by rocket that he wanted the "military" aspect of the game toned down. We are all civilians, some doctors, other lawyers, teachers, solders and so on. This is not a story game, and your char will not have a background. That's your job.

 

 

In Arma 2 they used soldiers for motion capture. So, if you look at how your char moves in Dayz and SA, you can see that in SA you move more like a normal guy than a military soldier.

 

 

Well...I have been a soldier for a while. If I have a look at the way my char holds his rifle I am kind of suprised he is able to something at all....

[MystoganXIX 78]

I'd really like if they increased pretty much all weapon accuracy while substituting in additional mechanics that make aiming more difficult.

 

Seeing as how this game is going for a more "realistic" approach, simply giving weapons more dispersion is not the way to proceed here. The hard part of shooting a weapon should be Aiming, not praying that even if you have a perfectly aimed shot your bullet will not fly off heavily to the side due to shitty gun accuracy.

 

Decrease of military aspects should translate into decrease in a player's ability to handle weapons. Not a decrease in weapon performance themselves.

Edited January 4, 2014 by MystoganXIX

[ososensual 6]

bullets seems to hit me pretty good

[Zul (DayZ) 79]

you guys complain about everything! lol im done with the forums lol

[ATao 15]

So uh... stock parts give you average accuracy, rare parts give you good accuracy, quality of parts can make it bad or near perfect. What's wrong with that? There would be no point in upgrading M4 components if stock parts were as (or almost) good as MP. Realism or some other complicated whatnot has nothing to do with the question. Upgrades are not for the looks only or they won't be really needed otherwise. That's it, your captain.

 

The only problem is with CQB handle. It's pretty much useless atm. No real benefits and terrible accuracy penalty.

Edited January 4, 2014 by M1NeR

[-Gews- 7443]

It was stated by rocket that he wanted the "military" aspect of the game toned down. We are all civilians, some doctors, other lawyers, teachers, solders and so on. This is not a story game, and your char will not have a background. That's your job.

Your character's backstory is irrelevant and doesn't address these points:

If [poor accuracy meant untrained characters], then why:

-is the Mosin way more accurate than the M4?

-are survivors less stressed or better trained when holding a Mosin?

-why does adding a muzzle compensator or Magpul stock dramatically increase the accuracy?

-why does a bipod turn the Mosin into a de facto M24?

 

 

So uh... stock parts give you average accuracy, rare parts give you good accuracy, quality of parts can make it bad or near perfect. What's wrong with that?

The effects make absolutely no sense.

It's like having a racing game where you car gets double the top speed because it has cool rims, a spoiler and tribal decals.

Why would a muzzle compensator turn accuracy from poor to perfect? Why does the brand name of the stock increase accuracy by a dozen times? These parts should have almost no effect on inherent accuracy, instead they turn it from much worse than AKM to Lapua-like.

you guys complain about everything! lol im done with the forums lol

Sorry for not being one of those "yes men"?

[wgaf 251]

No thanks.

 

 

Why not? It would go a long way toward eradicating arcade stuff from dayz. 

 

It would be exactly like what you need to do in real life. 

 

You can't just attach an optic to a rifle and have it point where the bullets go. 

 

You need to zero it, to fire and adjust. 

[-DMG-Jonesy 226]

Not really related to anything...

 

But I made a 500m+ shot with the magnum tonight.

 

[-Gews- 7443]

But I made a 500m+ shot with the magnum tonight.

This is currently possible because they gave the "Magnum" the same muzzle velocity as 5.56mm.

That means it only drops about 2-3/4 meters at that range.

 

 

 

If they gave it more realistic ballistics it would drop over 17 meters.

 

[-DMG-Jonesy 226]

This is currently possible because they gave the "Magnum" the same muzzle velocity as 5.56mm.

That means it only drops about 2-3/4 meters at that range.

 

 

 

If they gave it more realistic ballistics it would drop over 17 meters.

 

 

Oh. I'm well aware.  Prior to the shot, we were having that very discussion.  "With the MV, I bet this thing can out range my mosin."

 

Not quite, but an amusing bug nonetheless.  

[wolfsburg62 66]

The Mosin is not supposed to be a nail driving accurate rifle. 

[DeceasedPath 21]

Amen! Devs, we have paid you and we have spoken. You know, when you can ;)

[-Gews- 7443]

The Mosin is not supposed to be a nail driving accurate rifle. 

 

 

Agreed.

 

The Mosin I do not have nearly as much of a problem with. I think it could use a slight increase but like I said, it's not "terrible", it's an old milsurp rifle.

 

 

I also think it's way too accurate with the bipod deployed.