Accuracy comparison: DayZ vs ARMA 2

[-Gews- 7443]

A lot of people have mentioned the lack of accuracy that certain (or all) weapons in DayZ exhibit. Lots of threads and posts on the forums and Reddit.


No wonder... here's a comparison of current DayZ firearms and their ARMA 2 counterparts.

 

 

Keep in mind these dispersions are for a single, PERFECTLY AIMED SHOT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lee-Enfield vs Mosin 91/30

 

The Mosin is far less accurate... however, I felt the Lee-Enfield itself was a bit too accurate. A happy medium would be nice. The Mosin isn't absolutely terrible but it could do with a bit less dispersion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Revolver vs Magnum

 

 

Again, the ARMA 2 Revolver is probably a bit too accurate. Even so, the Magnum's accuracy is simply awful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Glock 17 vs FNX-45

 

 

The accuracy of the FNX is very poor. But again, the Glock may have slightly too accurate. In any case the FNX is simply horrible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

M4A1 (ARMA 2) vs M4A1 (DayZ)

 

 

The most talked about one... the DayZ M4A1. This is probably because people are trying to use this at ArmA 2 ranges, while no one shoots the pistols at 200 meters.

 

Terrible, terrible, terrible accuracy with the default attachments. It's worse than many of the pistols in the mod. This should definitely be changed, ASAP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, back to this:

 

 

Keep in mind these dispersions are for a single, PERFECTLY AIMED SHOT.

 

 

 

 

A few people have put forth the argument that players are "untrained" or that the massively increased dispersion is to simulate the "stress of combat".

 

No. If that was the case, then why:

 

-is the Mosin  way more accurate than the M4?

-are survivors less stressed or better trained when holding a Mosin?

-why does adding a muzzle compensator or Magpul stock dramatically increase the accuracy?

-why does a bipod turn the Mosin into a de facto M24?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second, gameplay. Look at the dispersion of the Lee-Enfield. It should be easily capable of repeated headshots at 500 meters.

 

Yet we didn't see tons of 500-meter Lee-Enfield headshots. Players missed with the Enfield all the time even at very short range.

 

That's because while the weapon dispersion might be decent, players aren't aimbots, players don't have perfect mouse control and players get scared and panic.

 

 

In a real game situation, the effective "dispersion" might look more like this, for someone who is a great shot on a stationary target.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's to hoping we get some guns which don't apparently have the rifling shot out.

 

[fig0451 85]

You pull these radii from ingame files or from testing? Not that I really doubt any of these, just curious.

Anyway, yeah, I'm at a bit of a loss for understanding why the dispersion seems so crap. It 'could' be that most of the weapons we are using are ruined or badly damaged, but we can't tell due to a current bug preventing weapon status from showing up.

Also, is there any word on if we'll be able to repair weapons or attachments in the future?

Edited January 4, 2014 by fig0451

[Zeet. 101]

My fire axe has some sweet ghost range. 30+ fps, good ping. Many weapons need to be worked on. They will, you have my beans. :)

[-Gews- 7443]

You pull these radii from ingame files or from testing? Not that I really doubt any of these, just curious.

 

Files.

 

Anyway, yeah, I'm at a bit of a loss for understanding why the dispersion seems so crap. It 'could' be that most of the weapons we are using are ruined or badly damaged, but we can't tell due to a current bug preventing weapon status from showing up.

 

I dunno, but these are the default dispersions, no attachments (with the exception of the M4A1 which comes standard with handguard and stock).

[fig0451 85]

Ah well if you pulled them from the files then yeah I guess these values are kinda whack.

 

If the devs were going for simulating an untrained person's inaccuracy, couldn't they just make the weapon sway more instead of giving it dispersion?

Edited January 4, 2014 by fig0451

[-Gews- 7443]

If the devs were going for simulating an untrained person's inaccuracy, couldn't they just make the weapon sway more instead of giving it dispersion?

 

That would be preferable... but also more noticeable to the player (cue complaints about ArmA 3's sway). On the other hand the player can compensate for it, something no one can do with complete randomness. I would also like to see simple wind drift added but I'm not holding my breath.

 

In any case, I never heard people complaining about the great accuracy of the AK-74 being OP, etc, during my entire time playing the mod. It's only now that decent accuracy seems to be an issue with some people, which is unfortunate.

[djporternz 644]

And yet players are still being killed in their droves by these 'inaccurate' weapons.

 

Not to call you on the figures or anything, as I have the same info available here, and there does seem to be a disparity between the figures that are contained in the config files. I don't thnk, however, that they are the entirity of the story.

 

This is only ancedotal, and therefore probably irrelevant, but I still seem to be able to hit 9/10 targets at 800m with a scoped mosin on a bipod while prone and holding my breath. I'd be curious to see if those figures for dispersion were affected by any of those conditions and by how much. Not sure whether its worth the effort ATM with everything so much in flux.

Edited January 4, 2014 by DJPorterNZ

[-Gews- 7443]

And yet players are still being killed in their droves by these 'inaccurate' weapons.

Not to call you on the figures or anything, as I have the same info available here, and there does seem to be a disparity between the figures that are contained in the config files. I don't thnk, however, that they are the entirity of the story.

Doesn't change the fact they're very inaccurate. I'm mostly talking about the stock M4, and the two pistols.

The Mosin I do not have nearly as much of a problem with. I think it could use a slight increase but like I said, it's not "terrible", it's an old milsurp rifle.

This is only ancedotal, and therefore probably irrelevant, but I still seem to be able to hit 9/10 targets at 800m with a scoped mosin on a bipod while prone and holding my breath.

 

Yup, the bipod significantly improves the accuracy. In fact I would say with bipod, it's probably too accurate for an old Mosin. I haven't confirmed stats for the bipod yet but it's a whole other level, closer to the Lapua than the stock Mosin.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

You also need to factor in weapon condition, out of breath, sick, pain and bleeding(assuming these are functioning)

[Shadyfizzle 80]

weapon condition isnt a factor yet, probably should be eventually since everything else has a condition. But yea a tleast we got high cap mags to compensate for a startling lack of accuracy!

[Zul (DayZ) 79]

well i kinda like this "inaccuracy". In arma you play as, well basically a soldier. In dayz sa your a civilian. Give a m4 or a mosin to a regular joe and i assure you his accuracy wont be the same as a trained individual. So imo leave as is, it makes thing more interesting. If anything make ammo super rare.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Zul

[Distortic 28]

well i kinda like this "inaccuracy". In arma you play as, well basically a soldier. In dayz sa your a civilian. Give a m4 or a mosin to a regular joe and i assure you his accuracy wont be the same as a trained individual. So imo leave as is, it makes thing more interesting. If anything make ammo super rare.

Still if youre skilled enough at the game there should be a way to control it  like someone else has already said. Also making ammo super rare would make it harder to defend yourself against KOSers... If someone just stocks up on ammo they could just run around KOSing even more because people  couldnt fight back.

[strngplyr 26]

well i kinda like this "inaccuracy". In arma you play as, well basically a soldier. In dayz sa your a civilian. Give a m4 or a mosin to a regular joe and i assure you his accuracy wont be the same as a trained individual. So imo leave as is, it makes thing more interesting. If anything make ammo super rare.

 

There is a difference in not knowing how to aim and the bullet not flying straight, though.

[Gdaddy22 299]

nvm, stupid post

Edited January 4, 2014 by Gdaddy22

[mtclipz 31]

Nice post.  Yeah the dispersion is terrible and when you factor in situational circumstances and player twitch and panic, it is extremely bad.  Its actually bad to the point where less accurate people have a better shot of hitting a target if you know what I mean.

 

Anyways here's my beans!  Sorry only 74% left, stupid Fireaxe...

[fig0451 85]

So, about bipods... you can deploy them anywhere ... does the dispersion bonus work in any stance? Or only prone?

[-Gews- 7443]

So, about bipods... you can deploy them anywhere ... does the dispersion bonus work in any stance? Or only prone?

Only when prone, and only when deployed. It reduces your weapon's handling, but that has never been an important factor.

[Celt (DayZ) 30]

I understand what their aim (heh) is here; I always thought that weapons were a bit too accurate in DayZ Mod, and it seems they're trying to balance things a bit.

 

I think there are much better ways to do this, though; adding heavy sway, recoil, etc. would all be realistic and less frustrating alternatives.

 

At least with sway and recoil, an experienced player can line up shots at longer ranges by lying down, catching/holding their breath, and trigger discipline, like in real life. It's hard enough to hold a rifle steady in standing position, even without being out of breath. You shouldn't be able to hit a target beyond close range right after you stop running, not without taking a knee and catching your breath.

 

But if weapon accuracy is that poor regardless of what the player does? I don't think that's well balanced, just frustrating.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Celt

[lordpantsington 0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9754mmR

http://www.military-today.com/russian_land_forces.pdf  page 87

 

@300 m 50% of grouping in a 90mm diameter circle, looks like the SA is pretty wonky.

[humberto 5]

I think the answer is, dayz sa failed to pick up where arma left off...

 

why they want to redo everything, when arma had accurate aim...

 

maybe it has to do with the contract, maybe dayz has to be tuned by the dayz , and not a copy and paste of arma 2 code in a SA title?

[Zogvarn 118]

well i kinda like this "inaccuracy". In arma you play as, well basically a soldier. In dayz sa your a civilian. Give a m4 or a mosin to a regular joe and i assure you his accuracy wont be the same as a trained individual. So imo leave as is, it makes thing more interesting. If anything make ammo super rare.

Civilian has nothing to do with it and is an illogical excuse. What happens when someone leaves the military? They become a civilian. Civilians hunt for food and sport. Getting a sight picture with any rifle is pretty basic since they all work off the same principle: match front sight picture with back sight configuration.

 

The back story for our characters has never been established. Until a dev comes out and states, "Your characters are untrained office workers that lived in suburbia and do not know how to use a rifle.", the civilian excuse won't work. If they do state such a thing then we shouldn't know how to replace an engine in a car, fly helicopters, or use most medical gear/medicine adequately without harming ourselves.

 

The dispersion is crap and needs to be adjusted sometime, but its not a priority for now which is fine. Its a known issue. Gews is just giving us concrete evidence proving it. Thanks Gews.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

Nice post, I love visuals.

 

 

I have noticed the .45 and M4 are not that accurate, but dam this is crazy. The Mosin is not too bad. I got a head shot at about 550 yards today, so I am happy. But yeah these "new" guns should be very accurate.

[gibonez 3633]

Yea I am not a fan of the new weapon accuracy.

 

They really need to fix it so its more in line with real world values.

[The_Man 393]

Can't poor accuracy be chalked up to poorly maintained weapons, crappy ammo among other things? 

[gibonez 3633]

Can't poor accuracy be chalked up to poorly maintained weapons, crappy ammo among other things? 

 

Even the most poorly maintained mosin with the crappiest most corroded surplus ammo would still shoot at about 2 moa and far more accurate than the mosin in game.