Why are we making it harder to be friendly??

[dusty_nuttles 130]

Title says someting about harder to be friendly and then its a laundry lists of complaints. TFL for that.

[ramatakahn 38]

Hello everyone,

 

It's been a while since I have made a post/thread, or even lurked on the DayZ forums.  I was overcome with joy and glee seeing the Official DayZ Alpha launched just before the holidays, which was perfect time for me (as well as others) to test the hell out of the alpha - so I didn't have to quit my job...  ;) 

Now I know that people may scream "ITZ UNLY ALFA" but I am going to list off some things that I strongly recommend DayZ staff to fix, alter or change.  Again, all in IMO so tear downs will be laughed at! Wall of text incoming!! :D :D

 

A Few Things...

 

 

1) The inventory system- needs a bit of a tune up but it's definitely an improvement (props!) - I find especially annoying is accessing Med-Kits/Ammo Boxes/Hard Case Containers by having to drop them... If you could make them accessable from the characters gear menu, i.e. by right clicking, you should be able to open those slots to view and interact with them amongst the rest of your clothing/gear slots.

 

2) The melee system- still needs work obviously, blocking doesn't seem to do very much and the swinging range seems pretty short for the player.  Taking out/putting away weapons seems glitchy, a lot of it seems to be because of lag but I have found that you shouldn't have to stop when you are crouch running to put away or take out a weapon.  Please fix!

 

3) Where's all the shotguns?!?  I keep finding Shells but never any shotties.  I wanna see some hunting rifles and shotguns instead of god damn military loot lying around all the time!  This makes me wonder about your intentions Rocket...  :|

 

4) Enterable Buildings- All seem decent except that apartment building loot spawns is a need to be fix since nothing ever does spawn in those things.

 

5) Server hopping- is pretty annoying, you should of stuck to forcing people with a new character for every server.  Exploiting it is simple, you just have to relog every 3-4 servers you trust rinse and repeat.  No loss of gear.

 

6) Blood regeneration- from food seems very minimal.  I imagine that is the intent because once wild game is implemented they should be your major source of raising your lost health?  Cooking I imagine will give you more blood, just at the moment it feels very very minimal.

 

 

Now for my main concern: "Why are we making it harder to be friendly??"

 

For a while now, I've noticed that the overall procedure for giving blood transfusions to your friends adds a "hardcore" layer of realism to giving blood.  Having different types of blood: A, B, AB & O as well as RH+ or RH-, creates a unique character upon every life.  At the moment though as the Alpha stands it is "easier" to just gank players than it is to try and communicate, let alone transfuse a random player (or friend for that matter). It also doesn't help when there is NO SIDECHAT (Another topic that I strongly disagree with not being incorporated even into the Alpha stage... It's ludicrous to believe that people will talk or even type via direct).  I really have to question the blood transfusion procedure and how easily its already turning people away from helping another survivor.  Does this not promote "Killing on Sight" a thousand times more than the previous mod?  Proof is in the gameplay. 

 

I've put on around 50 hours onto DayZ Alpha and it's been 9/10 people will kill you before even speaking a word.  Why? Lack of communication once again.  Would not happen in real life like it does in DayZ.  There would be some kind of communication, seeing as though your life is precious to you and your group of survivors.  You would not just randomly kill another human without some communication - and this is the problem with DayZ.  You CANNOT force people to take responsibility for their own actions in a video game - people hardly do it IRL. These sort of infuriating losers who find joy in taking DayZ down to "Call of Duty level", are simply trash players and will be the "quick death" that some people rant about on this forum.  For any of this to work there's got to be harsh negative penalties people will endure by killing another human (IMO, add SANITY).  I just want to see the constructive element of DayZ shine through instead of this bland repeat of the mod.  I understand the reasons behind the Blood Transfusions (and its a cool idea Rocket) but it's making it more difficult for people like myself to be helpful...  This is a BIG no no!  There must be another way to implement BT's. > :(

 

 

No Sidechat is a big derp.  IMO, it should be in regardless.  Video games are video games to an extent, you can't expect no KoS when people can't communicate properly until the second they run into each other with modded M4's pointed at each others faces.  This was a let down for me, I liked having the sidechat to get to know people who were actively chatting on the server.  That was the main way I found my DayZ friends that I play with now!!  I am also interested in this humanity system, and what role that will play in the game.

 

I haven't lost faith in this game completely as others have because of being impatient - the biggest factor for me now is how much you guys will support KoS.  If you're going to make it harder for the "Hero" players and easier for the "Bandit" players, it really will be like every other type of game out there.  I can't stress enough how this will break the gameplay for hundreds and thousands of players who want a purer DayZ.  Sometimes you have to trade some realism aspects for better gameplay otherwise as stated above, people exploit and ruin it.

 

 

That's my two cents,

 

Cheers :beans:

 

Lidskjalf

 

 

That sure is a lot of words just to say you have no clue what ALPHA means.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

No Sidechat is a big derp.  IMO, it should be in regardless.  Video games are video games to an extent, you can't expect no KoS when people can't communicate properly until the second they run into each other with modded M4's pointed at each others faces.  This was a let down for me, I liked having the sidechat to get to know people who were actively chatting on the server.  That was the main way I found my DayZ friends that I play with now!!  I am also interested in this humanity system, and what role that will play in the game.

 

This whole paragraph makes me want to vomit.

 

Side chat did nothing other than give people who weren't all that interested in the actual game a place to sit and chit chat about bullshit, taking up player slots that could have been filled by actual players, who weren't hiding a a bush somewhere typing for hours. Or you had the "player1: anyone in cherno?" then a few minutes later "player1 was killed".

 

The worse part about side chat was it gave people no reason to actually meet anyone in the game world. Why bother? You can hide in the forest and hunt rabbits all day while you're entertained by the chat room we were all forced to look at. If you want to run off alone in this game, you should be punished with no human contact.

 

It's like all the arguments here on the forums, about KOS, game mechanics, and hacks, were played out day after day in blue text while people tried to focus on the game. But, you can't ignore the blue text, because one day some guy might type "Who's in elecktro fire station?" and if you don't say "Me" then he's gonna blow your head off.

 

Fuck side chat, don't ever bring that shit back Rocket!

[svenbreakfast 231]

Now I know that people may scream "ITZ UNLY ALFA" but I 

 

Commence finger exercises.

[Jaygoon 240]

Yes KoS is a pain, If you only stay on the coast,  cherno, electro, zelangorst & balota.

 

Spread out a little, stop going to the shooting gallerys and being a target.

 

(Or maybe some of you want to be killed so you can bitch on here about KoS, and get the game changed to a pve game you like)

 

:p

[colinm9991 196]

People are using the "Alpha" excuse for everything they dislike.

 

I'll tell it how it is; Sidechat is gone and not coming back, it is better that way because it is now more immersive.

 

The "Kill On Sight" mentality (I first complained about it, now I understand it) is solely based off the fact that the person is paranoid of you killing them and taking their gear, simple resolution; stop posting threads of how to "Fix" it (If it's not broken, don't fix it), instead develop your own mentality. For example, if a player has a gun then I WILL kill on sight, unless of course I can get an advantage over that person such as sneaking behind them, or if they do not have their primary weapon equipped, something that forces them to co-operate and leaves no other choice (What the hell is up with most of you, when I and my group shout in Direct Comms in English and sometimes the German guys shout in German, 80% of players I've seen so far have the mentality of "If I pretend I'm deaf and run away, maybe they won't shoot me for not co-operating") . If the player has fists or a fire axe, I will drop food and water, maybe even a weapon and ammo for that person if they decide to join Team-speak and join my group on our runs to military camps.

 

Those of you complaining about how global chat is gone, and how you can no longer see players names when you aim at them; you are not true fans or even players of this as far as I care, you're just looking for the game to be dumped down because you can't survive long enough, or because you fall for the same mistake all the time of trusting people to come within punching or swinging distance of you, or you run head on to people with guns; hoping they don't shoot.

 

This game is what it is, it's an immersive game developed on an engine that is intended for simulation purposes; constantly giving "Alpha" as an answer is not viable either, being an Alpha has absolutely nothing to do with having no Global or Side chat or even people that Kill On Sight.

[captainvette2112 84]

KoS is the way of this game particularly in groups.

 

I was just in Cherno with a squad of buddies 5 deep, all of us decked out with M4's.  We killed a sniper in the firehouse.  The gun shots must have attracted some other group because we spotted a crew of 4 guys rolling up on us. (3 M4's 1 Mosin)

 

Now what are we supposed to do?  Call out "hey we are friendly" to a group of guys heading towards us guns out?  I think not...... so without saying anything we just ended up having this massive fire fight in the Cherno courtyard that went on for like 5 mins.  I went though 3x60 round mags. 

 

Maybe you can tell me how that could have turned out friendly cause in my mind its even harder taking friendly risks in a group.   No one wants to deal with the pain in the ass it is to have a group member killed.... you have to go get his ass, get him re-geared and that takes TIME.  Time that a group of 5 guys might not want to spend so its easier to just KoS. 

[libertine 351]

KOS is great. Not being able to KOS yourself because your roleplaying you being in the situation (the most immersive way to play a game in my experience), and would not kill someone for beans in reality unless they were seriously wronged me somehow, it makes it hard to be able to use your weapon without being shot at first and usually killed which isn't that fun really. Having finally decided to KOS myself last night, because so many douche bags are pissing me off,  i've already racked up quite a few kills but that doesn't feel very satisfying since i know im probably killing some people just like myself. I'd almost rather they just declared it a PVP game.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Thane

[Lidskjalf 132]

I can agree with people that the KoS way of thinking does make the game more like BF or CoD.  I know it became all my clan did.  If we died who cares, we would never wipe so we would just hold the position or take our chopper and pick the person up and boom, he has his stuff again.  It was cool at first but it got SO incredibly boring because it was way to easy.  In real life (at least from my prospective, traveling to different countries, different states, meeting all types of people) that there would be a lot of random panic killings because well, most people are not prepared to starve to death.  There are a lot of people who I am glad I am friends with because I KNOW they would just killed people they didn't like because there was no more law.  So KoS does have its place in the realism of this game.  But, that being said, I believe there is TOO MUCH KoS in DayZ.  It's not realistic but at least in real life (and I use real life as the example since I assume most people prefer this game to be a survival/horror simulator not an arcade shooter) the chance of dying actually means something.  You wouldn't necessarily just open fire on someone just for the pure simple fact you don't know who they might be with or if they have back up.  It would be a bit insane unless you yourself had large numbers and were organized.  Even still, is it worth the huge chance of dying?  We all know there has never really been a good punishment for people who strictly KoS.  Though I like one of the above ideas about "Sanity".  Picture this, you KoS person after person.  The more people you KoS you lose your sanity.  The lower the "sanity" the more nightmares you see/have.  You start to see players and zombies that are not there.  Causing you to shoot at non existent targets, thus giving your position.  You get random head aches that make it extremely hard to see, kind of like when you are low on blood except some awesome pulsing blurring to your screen.  Basically, it makes it much harder for you to play.  I doesn't mean you can't play and still be a KoS player, but you will eventually put yourself at a huge disadvantage.  To regain humanity/sanity stop KoSing for XX amount of time (server decided I suppose).  It would be just based on time in game to.  No logging then coming back later and being fine.  No blood bagging a friend 20 times.  No killing zombies.  Just time.  So if you want to play the game and have even more fun, you would be more.....selective with you KoSing.   Just a thought.  I like my style of, let people do what they are doing unless they see me.  If they see me I run/KoS depending lol. 

 

My thoughts exactly man, there has to be negative reprocautions for KoS because there would be IRL - aka Sanity.  I agree 100%.  Let the douches be douches but make it such a pain in the ass that you start turning people away from just shooting on sight and actually using communication & also their brain.... :)

[Lidskjalf 132]

KoS is the way of this game particularly in groups.

 

I was just in Cherno with a squad of buddies 5 deep, all of us decked out with M4's.  We killed a sniper in the firehouse.  The gun shots must have attracted some other group because we spotted a crew of 4 guys rolling up on us. (3 M4's 1 Mosin)

 

Now what are we supposed to do?  Call out "hey we are friendly" to a group of guys heading towards us guns out?  I think not...... so without saying anything we just ended up having this massive fire fight in the Cherno courtyard that went on for like 5 mins.  I went though 3x60 round mags. 

 

Maybe you can tell me how that could have turned out friendly cause in my mind its even harder taking friendly risks in a group.   No one wants to deal with the pain in the ass it is to have a group member killed.... you have to go get his ass, get him re-geared and that takes TIME.  Time that a group of 5 guys might not want to spend so its easier to just KoS. 

 

If that's your basis of the entire game than you missed my point of the thread completely man.  I am saying to make the risk of killing someone for just "random shits", in a sense "harder".  If you didn't read the thread, I explained how at this point they are making it easier to just shoot someone like a fucking tard instead of making it easier to try and help a person (BLOOD BAGGING).  This is exactly why I think that they need to have SANITY, because its "authentic", it's real and it would eventually drive you insane after killing tens of hundreds of people.  And this should not be character based, it should be account based just like how bandit/hero skins were on the mod.  You wanna run around like a faggot with your buddies flying in a chopper in Balota airfield? Go ahead, but theres no "reset" upon character death.   Now that's more hardcore when you think about it.

[Bakercompany86 347]

No sidechat please...that would destroy immersion and the primary aspect of this game, which is exploring human nature.  The whole point is, you cannot communicate with someone unless you would actually be able to communicate with them in reality.  Which means vocal distance.

 

I don't want to see player names when I aim at them.  I don't want to see a players name that killed me.  

 

I however, wouldn't mind some sort of dogtag system where I could log the people I've killed or bodies I've found.  Entirely unnecessary, just saying I wouldn't oppose it.

[Lidskjalf 132]

People are using the "Alpha" excuse for everything they dislike.

 

I'll tell it how it is; Sidechat is gone and not coming back, it is better that way because it is now more immersive.

 

The "Kill On Sight" mentality (I first complained about it, now I understand it) is solely based off the fact that the person is paranoid of you killing them and taking their gear, simple resolution; stop posting threads of how to "Fix" it (If it's not broken, don't fix it), instead develop your own mentality. For example, if a player has a gun then I WILL kill on sight, unless of course I can get an advantage over that person such as sneaking behind them, or if they do not have their primary weapon equipped, something that forces them to co-operate and leaves no other choice (What the hell is up with most of you, when I and my group shout in Direct Comms in English and sometimes the German guys shout in German, 80% of players I've seen so far have the mentality of "If I pretend I'm deaf and run away, maybe they won't shoot me for not co-operating") . If the player has fists or a fire axe, I will drop food and water, maybe even a weapon and ammo for that person if they decide to join Team-speak and join my group on our runs to military camps.

 

Those of you complaining about how global chat is gone, and how you can no longer see players names when you aim at them; you are not true fans or even players of this as far as I care, you're just looking for the game to be dumped down because you can't survive long enough, or because you fall for the same mistake all the time of trusting people to come within punching or swinging distance of you, or you run head on to people with guns; hoping they don't shoot.

 

This game is what it is, it's an immersive game developed on an engine that is intended for simulation purposes; constantly giving "Alpha" as an answer is not viable either, being an Alpha has absolutely nothing to do with having no Global or Side chat or even people that Kill On Sight.

 

First of all, yes I understand that they don't want sidechat to be implemented because it's not "authentic" since they're adding radios as previously stated on the first page of one of my replies from someone else on this thread.  Second of all, it's the matter of not having true uniqueness per character because it all boils down the lowest common denominator.  Of course players that don't want to KoS develop their own mentality but it's the mentality that they're making it easier to be stupid.  You can't disagree with the fact that it's easier to just mow down someone for gear (even in the mod) instead of taking the time and getting it yourself.  Once again, there is no reprocaution for a players actions.

 

Now regardless of it being "Alpha", I am giving constructive critisim to what is laid upon the Alpha testing community, unlike your dull troll-like response.

 

Cheers :emptycan:

[razertx 10]

KOS will be around until players have an incentive not too.  It's too easy to simply kill a player and take the loot.

If a player received "humanity" for helping others and with more "humanity" came the ability to wear or use higher level gear, you could do a lot to combat the KOSers.

I know there are ways to exploit that system, but they could add a limit to the amount you could get from one person per day.

 

This is by no means a fix, just a brain stormed idea...

 

Examples could be:

Hero Actions:

Give someone food item = 10 humanity

WaterBottle/Canteen/Soda = 10/15/5

Mele weapons = 15-30 depending on weapons

Pistol = 30

Rifle = 50

Blood transfusion = 100

Bandage = 30

 

Bandit Actions:

Take someones blood = -50

Shoot someone = -100

Take someones gear items = varies neg impact on what you take (above for vaules)

 

higher humanity the less likely you are to become sick or agro zombies.

the lower humanity, the easier it is to agro zombies.

Edited December 28, 2013 by razertx

[Lidskjalf 132]

KOS will be around until players have an incentive not too.  It's too easy to simply kill a player and take the loot.

If a player received "humanity" for helping others and with more "humanity" came the ability to wear or use higher level gear, you could do a lot to combat the KOSers.

I know there are ways to exploit that system, but they could add a limit to the amount you could get from one person per day.

 

This is by no means a fix, just a brain stormed idea...

 

Examples could be:

Hero Actions:

Give someone food item = 10 humanity

WaterBottle/Canteen/Soda = 10/15/5

Mele weapons = 15-30 depending on weapons

Pistol = 30

Rifle = 50

Blood transfusion = 100

Bandage = 30

 

Bandit Actions:

Take someones blood = -50

Shoot someone = -100

Take someones gear items = varies neg impact on what you take (above for vaules)

 

higher humanity the less likely you are to become sick or agro zombies.

the lower humanity, the easier it is to agro zombies.

 

I find that an interesting idea razertx! Hopefully something like that would be implemented soon!!

[Zogvarn 118]

Got news for yall, variations of this have been tried in the mod. They don't work. Move on already.

 

Oh, and about the killing someone IRL has negative affects on someones psyche justification. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. My buddy, yea he has some issues after being a deployed in the sandbox a couple times from what he went through there mostly from seeing unarmed civilians/children getting hurt. While myself, I was deployed 2 times to Afghan and once to the sandbox. Engaged hostiles on a regular basis on all deployments. It doesn't bother me in the least. The rest of my team isn't bothered by it either.  So drop that bullshit about "Oh but IRL it blah blah blah.."

You don't know unless you've been there and experienced it for yourself.

[Bakercompany86 347]

I do not want to see any "God Modifier" of any sort implemented into this game.

 

The closer to realism, the better for me.

 

When I help a player who is struggling, or just simply give them a chance and it ends up well, I feel good and enjoy the game a bit more.  That's how I want to play.

 

If someone shoots be for whatever reason, be it paranoia, gear, or just to be a dick, they are free to do so and should be able to do so without any consequences minus what's already existing (gunfire drawing zombies/players etc).

 

But please, no morality system.  This game is about human nature and survival, not weird mechanics to earn gear.

[deepseamk21 11]

Zogvarn, Not sure if you can't read, or if you just felt like completing take something out of context to make yourself look cool.  ANYWAYS,  You should read my post again.  Perhaps 4 or 5 more times so it sinks in this time (not to be a dick, I know it comes off that way, so sorry).  Not everything is so black and white.  Literally the first few sentences in my wall of text was stating I and my friends KoS.  I still KoS.  I will continue to KoS.  But, I understand that the more people that play a game, the more chance of the game staying around and continuing to get funding.  So, if I need to compromise with people who cannot stand KoS I will.  They have just as much of a right to play as you or me.  There are times when you may love a game, for instance BF4 like I do, but there is something that is almost game breaking (BF4 netcode) and it makes it not as enjoyable.  But if you can fix it, why wouldn't you?  So what's it to you, if we suffer a sanity cripple, and they get to still enjoy the game.  It's adds more of a dynamic than anything.  First off rocket did not intend for this game to be KoS, it's just how it turned out.  This is not CoD or BF series.  There SHOULD be more depth to this game and how your actions help you survive or not.  Also, Your one post about being deployed and your buddy being deployed and how it didn't change your state of mind.  But you, like I, went to boot camp.  We then went to school after school after that.  The whole time shit was engrained in us that allows us to handle war better than some civilian with ZERO training or experience.  This isn't Arma, this is dayz.  You spawn in as a random nobody, not a soldier.  Did you walk into any mosques and kill everyone just for fun while you were over there?  I bet not.  THAT is KoS dude.  It's like killing a bambi who just spawned.  Dick move.  The kind of people that kill without purpose for no other reason than to just kill DO have something mentally wrong with them.  They are the thieves, rapists, and murders we see getting locked away all the time, but after the zombie apocalypse and no prisons or laws to hold them they would be free to do whatever, and it would bring a toll to them for many reasons, just see hurricane Katrina, hell just look at Syria or any other major event that includes chaos.  Fact is, warzone survival is much different than this games type of survival (remove zombies and it no different from a post government collapse).  I say, let us be penalized a bit, whatever, it will make everyone happy in the end.  If you can't play because your screen is hazed a bit like in what I said earlier, you shouldn't be playing an FPS because apparently it's just to hard for you.

[colinm9991 196]

First of all, yes I understand that they don't want sidechat to be implemented because it's not "authentic" since they're adding radios as previously stated on the first page of one of my replies from someone else on this thread.  Second of all, it's the matter of not having true uniqueness per character because it all boils down the lowest common denominator.  Of course players that don't want to KoS develop their own mentality but it's the mentality that they're making it easier to be stupid.  You can't disagree with the fact that it's easier to just mow down someone for gear (even in the mod) instead of taking the time and getting it yourself.  Once again, there is no reprocaution for a players actions.

 

Now regardless of it being "Alpha", I am giving constructive critisim to what is laid upon the Alpha testing community, unlike your dull troll-like response.

 

Cheers :emptycan:

 

Is it a troll-like response because you don't like what I said? Sorry, but that doesn't make something "troll-like".

 

If you are trying to be more "open-minded" than anything I posted, you may as well just accept that KoS is a part of this game and will never be gone; I hate to say it, but it's true.

I've been alive in game for a week, very rarely see players because I'm always in-land,  it does get boring when there are no fire-fights happening, no ambushes going on; it's natural and now I find it more enjoyable than anything else.

 

That said, I refuse to kill fresh spawns, I only do it fairly; I only apprehend, engage or kill players with weapons that will either try to shoot me first and miss, or that has me in sight with their weapon raised.

 

 

 

Alas, here comes the closed-minded part from me; this is the hundredth KoS thread, nobody cares anymore; please stop making these.

[Bakercompany86 347]

*snip*

 

 

I appreciate your posts, and I'm doing my best to read them.

 

A humble request though, could you break up your text walls a bit into paragraphs?  Lines tend to run over each other with my crappy vision, which makes large text blocks difficult to read.

 

Having said that, I am interested in what you have to say.

[Beck (DayZ) 1768]

Worst idea Rocket ever had was them dumb bandit/hero skins, turned the game into a game more like Warz with that crap

I disagree with the player skins as well, but how can you compare that to WarZ?

[libertine 351]

Beck and Jaygoon, are you bandits by chance?

Got news for yall, variations of this have been tried in the mod. They don't work. Move on already.

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaa?

What do you mean they don't work? Because never saw one server without a bandit skin of some some. NOR did i come across a single server without side chat beyond 8 months ago.... People obviously like it. Provide the option to turn it off if you don't like it, problem solved. I will be turning off myself sometimes when the kids start comparing penises.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Thane