Third person view removal from SA discussion

[serenityrick 218]

 If 1st person was forced on everyone you would lose such a HUGE player count. Then you would return to the forums and bitch about "Why doesn't anyone ever play DayZ anymore"

 

FPS games aren't exactly niche...

[Mutonizer 78]

I agree to one of the posts here: They will lose sales and player base with forcing "First Person", we have to wait for our first person only servers. The majority want to play the easy survival game and it only counts what the majority wants, not some hardcore gamer.

 

I don't like it but it's something we have to accept. This will never change. Let's just hope they still modify the 3rd person into "less-cheat-mechanic", because that's what it is right now, a cheat, nothing else.

 

Edit: I asked 7 people I usually play with DayZ and 6 of them would stop the game if they force first person. Four of them came from COD and three of them Counter strike. Nobody of them including me played the dayz mod.

 

I may be wrong but I don't think the goal is to have some watered down easy survival game that pleased the "masses", even in a standalone version. Unless things changed drastically and money really intervened, Rocket's vision was anything but what you described.

 

If you never played the mod, you might not yet know the feeling of slowly crawling for hours through an area at night with a broken leg and no morphine, surrounded by dozens of zombies, trying to reach an hospital spawn area...but to me that's ULTRA hardcore :)

 

That said, can easily just offer server option for it as many said, easy fix and it's already in the arma2 engine...

Edited December 30, 2013 by Mutonizer

[TimM1983 57]

I may be wrong but I don't think the goal is to have some watered down easy survival game that pleased the "masses", even in a standalone version. Unless things changed drastically and money really intervened, Rocket's vision was anything but what you described.

 

If you never played the mod, you might not yet know the feeling of slowly crawling for hours through an area at night with a broken leg and no morphine, surrounded by dozens of zombies, trying to reach an hospital spawn area...but to me that's ULTRA hardcore :)

 

Well Rocket is probably not the guy with the last word on the DayZ SA version and his vision was before the last turnover of almost 10.000.000$ just in december ? The company behind him may have other plans and like every company they are about pleasing the majority of players and make more monies.

 

In my case: DayZ SA is the best game of the last 3 years, I will stay what ever they decide to change.

[SubSt8 35]

Watch that Dyslexci video... the actual FOV (horizontal) changes very little going from 1st to 3rd person. 

 

And I don't care who you are, there is no way you can see around a corner or over walls with a 180 degree view.

I know the difference in FOV, I've played the game plenty. The point that I was making is that if we are simply talking about realism, not gameplay, third person is closer to real than first. There is no way to see around corner or walls...unless you actually look around corners and walls, which you can do with a simple hop and peak over. Which you can't do in game, so until they add a way for a player to scale a small wall to peak over in first person, I feel third person is a better option

 

Of course but there are tradeoffs, first person is more immersive and makes combat more fair. It also allow players to use sneaky maneuvers that are simply not possible against a player who has eyes behind his head. It gives a real tradeof to going prone. I think the restricted view angle adds more interesting elements that it removes.

 

3rd person is a crutch that doesn't really solve what it's supposed to and adds more problems.

Again, you are talking gameplay and I am talking realism. Gameplay I prefer first person but Rocket seems to be more focused on realism in his game. Until a game can perfectly represent a humans abilities (scaling walls to look over them, crawling silently to look around corners, ect) third person is as close to realistic as we can get.

 

Tl;dr I prefer first person but third person is more realistic.

[Arty (DayZ) 47]

Am I the only person here who doesn't care if they go 1 person or 3rd person only? They will make different server for your pleasure. Why are people still talking about this...

[rn_max 202]

The developers have already mentioned the possible addition of a "hardcore" mode including first person only viewpoint.  Much like the existing ArmA 2 hardcore game settings I would imagine.

 

No matter how much a small and vocal bunch of toy throwers hurl rattles and dummies, third person has been an integral part of the whole ArmA genre since day one and remains in the latest iterations.

 

First person lock has always been a server-side option under the existing mod, using "hardcore" game settings.  There are hardcore mod servers and they are ghost towns for the most part.

 

This is a GAME, for the purpose of widespread entertainment, where such choice maintains appeal for a wider audience than the tiny little bubble world of a few noisy forum dwellers.

 

I am for neither side, defending nothing except choice, for the large and mostly silent portion of players who prefer to just get on and play the game with choice on the menu ... those who would rather not have their entertainment warped by neckbeards and fruitcakes with an e-point to grind.

 

DayZ does not appear to have ever been marketed as a hardcore simulator. Where was that in the blurb?  I seem to remember "SANDBOX" and "what you make of it" ... The rest is wishful thinking from the anoraks, who in a weird way resemble the ArmA 2 neckbeards who in turn resented DayZ in the first place for sullying their hallowed "realism".

[BelMarduk 169]

TPV break PVP balance. True story.

 

1. They can improve FPV but you cannot fix balance issues with TPV.

2. You have to remember that atm all FPV players are forced to play in TPV to stay alive and turning FPV severs now when most of the new players are spoiled by this broken feature is unfair.

3. You can check how your character looks like in inventory screen.

 

It doesn't matter if you are CoD kiddie or Uber hero saving kitties PvP is important and breaking it only because you want to stare into your avatar ass is not worth it.

Tbh I cannot understand Rocket. All the time he is talking about creating ultra hardcore zombie apocalypse experience and how he don't care about popularity but still he cannot get rid of one of the most immersive-breaking feature.

 

P.S. Anyone who say that it's fair because anybody can use is have no idea about what he is saying.

wrong it can be 'fixed'. Just don't know if the dev's will do it. LOS (line of sight) rendering. If my character can not see you if I were in first person, your character is not be rendered for me by my client in TPV... relatively simple fix. TPV fans can still keep all the aspects of why they like TPV (without the 'cheating') and FPV 'hardcore-leet-ass gamers' can stop their incessant whining.

 

Besides, if ya'll so so 'hardcore' seems to me others playing with a crutch (TPV) shouldn't be any problem for you to overcome? Just be the hard-core-leet-street BOSS that you are, and smoke us all in your FPV.

[DaGolem 95]

 I will stay what ever they decide to change.

 

I don´t, because if the crying annoying "make it Firstperson only" people get they will and forced DeanHall to it,  then this Game is totaly ruined in my eyes.

I hate to play Firstperson (from a Person that plays over 15 years FPS) alot of my Friends hate it, too.

 

They don´t like the feeling, Specifically looting in buildings sucks so much in Firstperson....long travels in Firstperson makes no fun. It is terrible to watch if you take a very long walk.

Thirdperson is so much more relaxing then Firstperson....so if the "You have to play like i want you to play" people get they will, i stop playing DayZ.

Because of two Reason:

There is no need to only Firstperson, because Serveradmin choice.

and

Listing to people that can´t take it that people don´t want to play it like they say, is realy stupid

 

If Dean Hall is wise then he don´t listen to the these people.

Edited December 30, 2013 by DaGolem

[Hello moto 70]

I have a solution! Stop playing dayz as a PvP FPS game! Therefore you won't have to worry about TPV all the time! Every argument against Third is from the viewpoint of a hardcore PvPer. Not every encounter has to be bullets.

Yesterday I saw four people who I had the drop on.(without the mirror on a stick/gun third person view) I let them pass because I didn't need to shoot them.

[Sickerthansars 53]

The game is based off the mod, in the mod there was 3rd person, they just can't remove something that's been there for such a long time.

Don't like it? wait till there's 1st person only servers.

You can do 1000000000th forum posts, I believe Rocket said they weren't going to remove 3rd person, just make 1st person only servers.

also, there is already like a thousand topics about this, nothings going to change.

I guess you missed the part where there's already things in the game that were never in the mod, and things in the mod that aren't in the game/going to be in the game. Sounds to me like you got too used to having your hand held on 100000 vehicle+weps/insta respawn private hives and are afraid of losing 3rd person more than anything.

 

I guess you also missed the part where dayz is supposed to be the "anti-game" IE no hand holding/making things simple for people

[serenityrick 218]

I know the difference in FOV, I've played the game plenty. The point that I was making is that if we are simply talking about realism, not gameplay, third person is closer to real than first. There is no way to see around corner or walls...unless you actually look around corners and walls, which you can do with a simple hop and peak over. Which you can't do in game, so until they add a way for a player to scale a small wall to peak over in first person, I feel third person is a better option

 

Again, you are talking gameplay and I am talking realism. Gameplay I prefer first person but Rocket seems to be more focused on realism in his game. Until a game can perfectly represent a humans abilities (scaling walls to look over them, crawling silently to look around corners, ect) third person is as close to realistic as we can get.

 

Tl;dr I prefer first person but third person is more realistic.

 

I honestly don't know how to debate someone who thinks this type of 3rd person view is more realistic than 1st person, haha. I... could not disagree more.

 

Not seeing a few extra inches in your periphery is somehow less realistic than blindly being able to see around corners and over walls? I don't know how anyone can argue that.

[BelMarduk 169]

I remember long times ago, right around the time when the server files for the MOD were released to private hives. Oh there were so many servers that popped up "HARDCORE FP" servers... lots of them, and all but a couple lasted more than the first months server rental... and I can't think of a time ever seeing one full.

[dallas 5195]

Did three screenshots really justify another(another!!!) thread on this beaten to death subject?

[serenityrick 218]

wrong it can be 'fixed'. Just don't know if the dev's will do it. LOS (line of sight) rendering. If my character can not see you if I were in first person, your character is not be rendered for me by my client in TPV... relatively simple fix. TPV fans can still keep all the aspects of why they like TPV (without the 'cheating') and FPV 'hardcore-leet-ass gamers' can stop their incessant whining.

 

Besides, if ya'll so so 'hardcore' seems to me others playing with a crutch (TPV) shouldn't be any problem for you to overcome? Just be the hard-core-leet-street BOSS that you are, and smoke us all in your FPV.

 

IF that can actually be done, I'd totally be cool with that as a solution.

[DaGolem 95]

Every argument against Third is from the viewpoint of a hardcore PvPer.

Exactly! That´s the reason why they forcing Firstperson only Gameplay!

 

This is antisocial behavior! They don´t want a fair solution (Adminserver Choice) they want they will for better kill.

[Hello moto 70]

I don't understand why no 1st personers don't respond to the mirror on a stick/gun argument from the 3rd personers....

[gibonez 3633]

I don't understand why no 1st personers don't respond to the mirror on a stick/gun argument from the 3rd personers....

 

It's a stupid ass argument so its not worth responding to.

[serenityrick 218]

I don't understand why no 1st personers don't respond to the mirror on a stick/gun argument from the 3rd personers....

 

Because it's a stupid argument. The most important one being that I could see a mirror rather easily around corners that I was staring at. 

[Hello moto 70]

How so? Go grab a small mirror and crouch behind a window, now look outside and tell me how that doesn't closest resemble your third person 'cheating'?

This is really my only defense on using third person so if you can break it down and show me why that alone shouldn't allow third person then I've got no excuse.

[Hello moto 70]

So if you're staring at the exact tree/wall/ bush that I'm at then you have me pinned down. Adjust position ever second or so and I can't line up any shots. If there is no adjacent cover then that's just bad positioning by you, and has very very little to do with third.

[gibonez 3633]

How so? Go grab a small mirror and crouch behind a window, now look outside and tell me how that doesn't closest resemble your third person 'cheating'?

This is really my only defense on using third person so if you can break it down and show me why that alone shouldn't allow third person then I've got no excuse.

 

You should quit while your behind.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I saw the title and thought it might be an interesting debate. Sadly it's turned into another first vs third debate.

 

Why do you guys want a comfort option in such a hardcore game as dayz? We all understand why third person works or is better, and we all understand the downsides of it. But why do people want it easier in this game? We all understand how a great nametag system can improve the game, but it also has its downsides. Most people can agree nametags would ruin dayz, so there's no debate. But, third person view is like an Americans right to bear arms, people will ignore all debate and reason while they clutch onto their precious para-scope.

 

Why do you guys want an easier option in this game? Ignore it being third person view for a second and just look at it objectively as an easier option. Why is giving the player an easier time seeing his surroundings, better for DayZ?

[Hello moto 70]

But how am I behind?

[BelMarduk 169]

I honestly don't know how to debate someone who thinks this type of 3rd person view is more realistic than 1st person, haha. I... could not disagree more.

 

Not seeing a few extra inches in your periphery is somehow less realistic than blindly being able to see around corners and over walls? I don't know how anyone can argue that.

Its not seeing a few extra inches side to side, its the natural 'presence' of all thats around you, that you can not simulate (with current tech) in a game. You get 'more' of that presence with third, and 'less' with first. Is how (IRL) you know right where your feet are without looking down... Your definition of 'immersion' and mine are different. Your computer monitor is different than mine. You set a different distance from that monitor than I do. You are not affected by the motion on screen the same as I. There are 1000 different variables between what you think is a good gaming experience and what I believe is a proper experience. Now, that all said, DayZ is not a game to cater to anyone. Thats not what core DayZ is about. However, there will be FPV servers shortly. I cordially invite you to play to your hearts content on those servers.

[libertine 351]

I wouldn't mind 3rd being taken out at all, I think it would be great, but i'd want a few things to happen.

 

1. I want to be able to steady my gaze a little more while standing still in all positions because of the fact that motion is the best way to find a player against a steady, still background. Easily done in real life. The primary way i spot players in paintball for example. Its hard enough to find players as it is. Don't get me wrong, I do want some movement. I think it looks bad when the scene goes perfectly still. Just not the heavy movement we have now, which is actually rotation it seems and the wrong way to handle it.

 

2. I'd like to be able to compare clothing still. Using the inventory menu avatar doesn't give an accurate idea of what stuff actually looks like at present.

 

3. I'd like to be able to tone down head bob a little bit more. In my experience when im running hard or when weighted down i have more of a stutter in vision with each step rather than than actually noticing any bob. Especially tilt. There is no tilt in real life. You can luckily make that go away with the current settings, but not the rest of the excessive portion of it. BF2142 was the first game that really did running head movement just perfect. Each foot plant was met with a perfectly timed screen bump that varied slightly and was so minimal i couldn't find a youtube video with enough resolution to show it back then. I think game devs come into the industry and take the words "head bob" a little too literally.

 

On a related note, id love to be able to stick my head out of a window and look around too, but not be able to use weapons while doing so.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Thane