Third person view removal from SA discussion

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

Been debated to death on that last 3rd person removal thread. Many people choose the path of least resistance, that's why most 1st person servers are empty. DayZ should not be the game that lets players choose if they want to play on easy or hard. This is not Minecraft. 

 

The path of least resistance, or what they enjoy more? It's alpha, why don't we try it first and see how it goes before forcing first person on everyone? You're forcing a completely different playstyle on what you deem the proper way to play regardless of what everyone else says. The way I see it, many vouching for mandatory first person for the entire game are basically saying, "Yeah everyone who doesn't like it be damned, third person is bad for the game."

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I agree, but it's not the same. This is bigger. There's more on the line. I think he'll handle it well though.

 

 

A bigger problem though is advertising. Up to this point, and even as it sells now, everyone buying expects third person. Unless they made it a point to say, "Yo we got rid of that, it's all first person now," then people would be understandably mad. To then respond to their woes with "Alpha" would just be insulting.

 

Now answer me this. What's wrong with the future "hardcore hive" or whatever it's to be called, where it will be first person only for everyone on it? Why can't that exist while having the public hive with third person as well?

 

Two things, it divides the community. And everyone will gravitate towards the easier option.

 

Who cares about advertising, it says in big text everywhere that this is an alpha release. If people get upset about features being taken out of the game during the alpha, it's their fault for buying it early. Fuck em, they knew the risk.

[landfish 62]

@Diggydug

 

Its already playing out right in front of our eyes. Many DayZ players are still using 3rd person to peek over hill with an invisible periscope to see a sniper 1km away. First person only is the best option we have right now to make this game fair and balance. You'll never convince me either that using an invisible periscope to peek over walls is a fair and valid play-style.

Edited December 30, 2013 by landfish

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

Features heavily advertised being removed? Nice idea.

 

"Fuck 'em" is exactly the mentality I see coming from your side. Works both ways though, right? Everyone who wants first person only, fuck 'em.

 

 

@Diggydug

 

Its already playing out right in front of our eyes. Many DayZ players are still using 3rd person to peek over hill with an invisible periscope to see a sniper 1km away. First person only is the best option we have right now to make this game fair and balance.

 

Yeah, but the hardcore group can migrate to the "hardcore" servers and then no one will do that. It will be voluntary...let's do choices first, see how it goes. And use feedback from there. Many people are new to DayZ and likely never played ArmA. They don't know what being restricted to first person is like in this type of game. Give them a chance to see before forcing it on them.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Diggydug

[dallas 5195]

Two things, it divides the community. And everyone will gravitate towards the easier option.

 

Who cares about advertising, it says in big text everywhere that this is an alpha release. If people get upset about features being taken out of the game during the alpha, it's their fault for buying it early. Fuck em, they knew the risk.

We don't pull these kind of WarZ moves around here. What you see is what you get and we saw third person on the sales page.

[dnk 18]

Been debated to death on that last 3rd person removal thread. Many people choose the path of least resistance, that's why most 1st person servers are empty. DayZ should not be the game that lets players choose if they want to play on easy or hard. This is not Minecraft. 

 

"The path of least resistance", eh? Seems like you can't accept that ninety-some-percent of players disagree with you. When they do, it's their problem because they have different tastes than you.

 

Welcome to being in a minority opinion.

 

TPV vs FPV should not decide whether the game is "easy" or "hard" - if that's it, then Rocket certainly has failed either way. In the end, TPV makes the game harder for people such as yourself who only run in 1st person, so it seems to me you're complaining about the game being more challenging for yourself, and you want an easy mode where you don't get killed so much when you're running around in the open.

 

You're free to play the game in a more challenging, more RP approach. But don't start trying to force that approach down everyone else's throat, and then go about complaining, ranting, and perhaps insulting "the masses" for disliking your personal preference.

 

 

 

Many DayZ players are still using 3rd person to peek over hill with an invisible periscope to see a sniper 1km away.

 

Well, if they're able to do that then the sniper was terribly hidden. At 1km with the highest non-scoped zoom, he's like 1 or 4 pixels large on a standard widescreen. Deserved to get spotted.

Edited December 30, 2013 by -Hawkeye-

[landfish 62]

 

 

"Fuck 'em" is exactly the mentality I see coming from your side. Works both ways though, right? Everyone who wants first person only, fuck 'em.

Yep, fuck balance and realism, this is the kind of mentality that makes servers with 1000+ vehicle and a full kit at spawn so popular and I bet you'd agree with me on this one, Ruined the mod.

[landfish 62]

@-Hawkeye-

 

We're punishing noobies now? Inexperience is one thing, but if you use an exploit to expose someone's inexperience, then sorry but that is flat out cheating.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

TPV makes the game harder for people such as yourself who only run in 1st person, so it seems to me you're complaining about the game being more challenging for yourself, and you want an easy mode where you don't get killed so much when you're running around in the open.

 

Nobody runs around in only first person. If the option is there you HAVE to use it. Jesus fucking christ, don't be so ignorant to the discussion, we're not here to piss you off, or make the game easier on ourselves, we're here trying to show you guys how no third person eliminates a lot of bullshit tactics. It's not that we don't use third person view, it's that we don't want the option to use it.

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

 

Yep, fuck balance and realism, this is the kind of mentality that makes servers with 1000+ vehicle and a full kit at spawn so popular and I bet you'd agree with me on this one, Ruined the mod.

 

 

Stop with the realism. People only argue realism when it's convenient.

___________

 

I agree custom servers like that hurt the mod. I feel that it was more because many people in DayZ were flatout new to ArmA in general and those types of servers were them experiencing what ArmA is capable of. Too lazy to look into other game modes because DayZ commander has it all right there.

 

However that's not really a valid comparison. First person only servers would be the exact same except you can't use third person.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Diggydug

[landfish 62]

 

 

Stop with the realism. People only argue realism when it's convenient.

Should we stop ranting about balance as well?

 

 

However that's not really a valid comparison. First person only servers would be the exact same except you can't use third person.

What kind of unfair advantage does First person give one over another? please enlighten me.

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

Should we stop ranting about balance as well?

What kind of unfair advantage does First person give one over another? please enlighten me.

 

Balance - Really? I bet if I ask someone in game if third person ruins the game for them they want say so. It's got advantages over someone strictly using first person, sure, but only then. The tactics employed by third person are part of the game at this point. Not that I condone them or like them, but they are.

 

I never said first person gives an advantage. What?

 

 

 

Let me just restate my thoughts and end with a question.

 

I say let's see how the "hardcore" servers handle. Give people a choice to experience it or not.

Why should everyone be forced to play the way you deem appropriate when we can have the option and theoretically satisfy both parties?

[The_Man 393]

Yep, fuck balance and realism, this is the kind of mentality that makes servers with 1000+ vehicle and a full kit at spawn so popular and I bet you'd agree with me on this one, Ruined the mod.

 

Ruined the mod? Man, it is a shame no one knows about how games running the RV engine work. Behind every game (Operation Flashpoint, ARMA, ARMA III, ARMA III, DayZ) followed with a surge in the community creating modifications and making the game to their own liking. This is such a huge aspect of the series. The engine allows for great modifications which has anything but ruined the games. Plus, those were private hives. Nothing carries over to the public ones. The truth is that private servers with mods strengthen the community. People get bored with vanilla. We should be so lucky that this engine is so easy to mod. I remember playing on modded Operation Flashpoint servers 10 years after it released. 

 

Say that DayZ isn't apart of ARMA or Op. Fl. but too bad, it is. The community creating modifications to the game is what created this game. The game is essentially a mod and therefore it is only logical that it will be modded itself. 

 

And don't worry! the original game won't be ruined! There are always people tired of mods and want to go back to Vanilla! You have the choice and that is all these games are about. Freedom to do what you want. I like it this way and I stand by my word that it works. Just look into the past communities of the aforementioned games. 

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

The tactics employed by third person are part of the game at this point.

 

If the tactics employed by third person are not authentic to real life, I don't want them in DayZ.

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

If the tactics employed by third person are not authentic to real life, I don't want them in DayZ.

 

Okay.

[landfish 62]

 

 

Balance - Really? I bet if I ask someone in game if third person ruins the game for them they want say so.

If someone picks up a briefcase with $10000 I bet not many people would really alert the authorities.That's humanity for you.

 

 

 

Why should everyone be forced to play the way you deem appropriate when we can have the option and theoretically satisfy both parties?

Our concerns are more than just self importance, believe it or not we actually care about the direction this game is taking. I don't talk bad about 3rd person because I would dominate a server if its removed because I've been playing 1st person longer than anybody else on that server. I voice my concerns because I don't think 3rd person is appropriate for a game like DayZ. 

Edited December 30, 2013 by landfish

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

Do you think DayZ would be where it is today without third person?

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Do you think DayZ would be where it is today without third person?

 

Why don't you just go ahead and tell us why it wouldn't and we can save some time.

[landfish 62]

 

 

Do you think DayZ would be where it is today without third person?

Yes. Can you please show me a source that describes DayZ as a 3rd person zombie survival game?

[The_Man 393]

Third person has been present in this engine since 2001. Go ahead, take it away. Rocket won't do it. If he does then it will make a return when private hives show up. 

 

Third person is PART of the game. You want to take out a mechanic that has been present in these games and mods for 12 years. Cool. 

[gibonez 3633]

Do you think DayZ would be where it is today without third person?

 

Yes of course it would.

Third person has been present in this engine since 2001. Go ahead, take it away. Rocket won't do it. If he does then it will make a return when private hives show up. 

 

Third person is PART of the game. You want to take out a mechanic that has been present in these games and mods for 12 years. Cool. 

 

Rocket can do whatever he wants he has consistently done what is going to make the game better. He has fixed exploits and improved the game.

 

Removing third person view does these things.

[landfish 62]

 

Third person has been present in this engine since 2001. Go ahead, take it away. Rocket won't do it. If he does then it will make a return when private hives show up. 

 

Third person is PART of the game. You want to take out a mechanic that has been present in these games and mods for 12 years. Cool. 

Buggy zombies are also part of the game ever since the start of the mod. Crosshairs have also been part of the game for as long as I remember. If you're not willing to venture new waters, then stay at home(keep playing the mod).

[The_Man 393]

Buggy zombies are also part of the game ever since the start of the mod. Crosshairs have also been part of the game for as long as I remember. If you're not willing to venture new waters, then stay at home(keep playing the mod).

 

I won't need to keep playing the mod. Third person is here to stay. It won't go anywhere and I'm certain of that considering it's long standing presence in these games. I'm sure of that. 

 

People enjoy seeing their characters. It immerses them into the game more differently than third person. 

[The_Man 393]

Yes of course it would.

 

Rocket can do whatever he wants he has consistently done what is going to make the game better. He has fixed exploits and improved the game.

 

Removing third person view does these things.

 

Third person works in this game. A skilled player learns how to not be beat just because the other person is using third person. I enjoy first person only also! It is a different challenge. But I enjoy the challenge of being easily spotted and spied on by a player. It is realistic. Someone will always have an advantage over you. All I hear is whining from people who think people are exploiting a clearly working mechanic in this game. It is laughable, at best. Sad but true. 

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

Why don't you just go ahead and tell us why it wouldn't and we can save some time.

 

Why would it? It's the same reason people don't play on first person servers. Many people who played DayZ never played ArmA. Arguably most of them, though I have nothing to back that up.

ArmA's first person, especially ArmA 2's, is clunky, unusual, and for some even nauseating. Two people I know personally legitimately can't handle it even with reduced headbobbing and no blur.

The first person aspect does not appeal to as many people as third person does. Popular ArmA servers typically allow both. Is it just so happens that there's a correlation there? Nope.

Everyone who played the mod saw it too. First person servers weren't even close to as popular as those that allowed both.

 

Even with all the vehicle servers you still have popular vanilla servers and other mods that have popular versions of themselves without 500 vehicles and 50 helis.

 

If the correlation shows anything it's that people who play DayZ, many being new to ArmA in general, just don't like using ArmA's first person.

 

 

I shouldn't have to say all of that, you know it as well as I and everyone else does. You already said it. "Fuck 'em". You know, you just don't care.