Third person view removal from SA discussion

[bannworthrulz 24]

i can't wait for 1st person, this 3rd person is so glitchy and broken

 

Huh, there already is 1st person?

[TimM1983 57]

Someone in this thread mentioned the idea, as soon as you hold a weapon you instantly go into first person. I am a guy who appreciate first person only but this is something I could work with.

 

I guess there are still some 3rd person people who wants to shoot while in 3rd person. We need to come together and the solution above sounds good, not ?

[gibonez 3633]

Someone in this thread mentioned the idea, as soon as you hold a weapon you instantly go into first person. I am a guy who appreciate first person only but this is something I could work with.

 

I guess there are still some 3rd person people who wants to shoot while in 3rd person. We need to come together and the solution above sounds good, not ?

 

 

This is the best solution that both sides can agree on.

 

Switching to your weapon is met with a lengthy 2-3 second animation to first person view where you are locked in until you put your weapon away.

 

Atleast this way you cant get the jump on people around corners.

[Jamz 253]

 

i don't know why this thread is still open. it's just a war between two groups.

 

This happens every time it's discussed, which is probably why most people don't bother anymore - It just becomes pointless bickering which nobody pays any attention to.

[Markiee 9]

I like switching between thrid and first person. When I'm running I usually use Third Person, it's also cool to get to see your character once you've gotten some good looking gear. I'd like to be able to see my character

But most of the time when I am in a town/village or in combat or clearing a house I am in First Person. I feel it's more responsive and easier to spot people in first person than it is in Thrid. For me, I use thrid person just because it looks cool to see your character when running and such. And having a peak at your new found gear as well.


A way to combat you looking above walls and around corners could be to put the camera a bit closer to your character when in Third Person. It is still not very effective to peek corners and above walls in Third Person in Standalone anyway, but putting the camera closer to the character and a bit lower to the ground, would remove this ability almost completly. Maybe also if you have your gun raised you go back to first person.

If the camera was a bit closer and lower, a lot of the peek around and over things would be gone. Still would be there to some degree but would be nearly gone. Maybe when you go prone the camera is really close and low, and crouch somewhere between Standing up and Prone?

Also there will be a hardcore mode that only uses First Person, so removing it from Veteran... Don't see the point.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Markiee

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

This topic again, i do agree that third person view has to go but the community is divided on this.

[gibonez 3633]

This topic again, i do agree that third person view has to go but the community is divided on this.

 

 

Sometimes tough decisions need to be made for people even when they don't want it done.

 

Similar to a child refusing to get vaccinated because they are afraid of needles but its for their own good.

 

Same thing with TPV its for our own good to remove it. Rust already saw the flaws of tpv and removed it.

[Ineedscoffee 464]

You can see your character in the inventory screen now, so people can admire their outfits there.

It's just not the same as being able to turn the camera around and see your charactor animate in the world. Hearing he birds in the forests, and having sun shafts bursting through the branches and come off your shoulders. Seeing your toon that you spent so much time surviving on actually run, walk, etc. when you turn the camera around him.

It's just not the same George.

[gibonez 3633]

It's just not the same as being able to turn the camera around and see your charactor animate in the world. Hearing he birds in the forests, and having sun shafts bursting through the branches and come off your shoulders. Seeing your toon that you spent so much time surviving on actually run, walk, etc. when you turn the camera around him.

It's just not the same George.

 

 

Fine then allow third person view but lock the camera in front of you so you cant peek around corners or over cover but can still admire your character.

 

Like so.

[victusmortuus 1074]

Fine then allow third person view but lock the camera in front of you so you cant peek around corners or over cover but can still admire your character.

 

Like so.

 

No?. How about we just leave it how it is. You should just play in FP servers so we all have a choice. Stop being a Nazi forcing FPS on us. Dayz is great as it's both FP and TP.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Victus Mortuus

[Ineedscoffee 464]

Fine then allow third person view but lock the camera in front of you so you cant peek around corners or over cover but can still admire your character.

 

Like so.

See the skyrim camera works fine for me. I get one helluva thrill from slowly peaking around corners in first person. Only camera I use for looting, combat, etc.

[gibonez 3633]

See the skyrim camera works fine for me. I get one helluva thrill from slowly peaking around corners in first person. Only camera I use for looting, combat, etc.

 

Yup combat and the game is made more interesting, nobody can cheat by peeking around corners or cover. People still get to see their character get gear and progress.

 

EVeryone WINS!!

[irichey25 17]

Everytime I hear this argument this is the first two things that pop in my head

 

1. What about the people who actually legitimately play in third person permanently and refuse to go to first person?

2. An way to combat the weird look past walls and such would be the over the shoulder third person camera like this. 

 

this http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/macmeister92/arma22010-04-1016-17-17-33.jpg 

[Markiee 9]

Everytime I hear this argument this is the first two things that pop in my head

 

1. What about the people who actually legitimately play in third person permanently and refuse to go to first person?

2. An way to combat the weird look past walls and such would be the over the shoulder third person camera like this. 

 

this http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/macmeister92/arma22010-04-1016-17-17-33.jpg

 

 

 

Something like that could work, but I think you should be able to switch shoulders, not in game but in menu only. So you would have to log out to switch shoulders. So that it can't be abused.

Or something similiar to how it is now, but putting the camera a bit further down and close to character. At least when your weapon is raised crouched and prone.

I think if you lower your weapon/running while standing obviously. It should be as is, so you can admire your character or when running.

But then again, Hardcore mode, isn't it basically Veteran except FPS only? So there will be something for everyone.

[evil_this 27]

The things that strike me most in this ongoing, endless argument are this:

 

1) Have you ever played /r/outside?  Seriously.  Go out into the woods.  Go run around, hide behind trees, lay on the ground, look over hills and rocks.  Go walk through a neighborhood at night and run around trees and backyards.  Do this for a few hours then come home and play DayZ or Arma3 with 1PP only.  

 

You'll find, I am sure, that the game, while they try hard, does not allow for anything like a realistic interaction with the world in FPS.  Movement is clumsy, you have virtually zero spatial awareness to the objects around you.  Third person view much more *accurately* compensates for senses other than vision (and hearing but we know audio is basically 1% accurate in standalone at this point).

 

2) For everyone who wants the game to be locked down to 1PP only, you're not playing the experimental mercenary servers, are you?  You know how I know?  They're basically empty.

 

3) You cry "realism".  Do you really think it's realistic that you cannot stand on tip toes to peer over a wall, or peek and look 160-180 degrees behind you around a wall?  Do you think it's realistic that you cannot walk through a building without bumping every table and wall because your field of view (even at maximum) extends about 3 inches down and up in front of you and about 11 inches to either side?  When you pop 3PP to peek over a wall, it's compensation for not being able to get on tip toes and look over that wall - which you could do in real life, if we had an intelligent and accurate way to simulate it in 1PP, then it wouldn't matter.

 

4) Why do you recommend turning off head bob for a more comfortable 1PP?  Isn't that *exactly the same amount of cheating* as 3PP?  If anything the rallying cry should be lock max headbob, lock max blur, lock minimum FOV, lock all graphics settings the same (a much more relevant 'cheat' than 3PP), etc.  3PP is so much less of a worry than just basic graphics settings, so why is this the target of rage?

 

5) My next point answers that last question.  Many of the 1PP or die types are those who *excel at playing 1PP*.  So what they want is not for "those cheating @#$&ers who can peek around corners" to not be able to "have that advantage", what they want is for anyone who has more experience with COD than expansive environmental simulators to "have that advantage".  Otherwise, they'd demand 1PP only servers and STFU about it.  You know why they don't?  They don't want to have only 2% of the game's population to play with.

 

This is really, really demonstrable in this thread.  A large number of the 1PP only brigade here make comments like "Make 3rd person only on noob servers" or the one recommendation that insinuated that if 3PP is enabled, then new spawns should start fully looted.  If it was a care for the mechanics, it wouldn't come with insult.  It comes with insult because it helps them feel that the players who aren't COD:MW "veterans" with xbox achievements in 10 different FPSs across their favored franchise are less than human/worse than them/worth so little they can openly belittle them in such a manner. 

 

--

 

3PP is for so much more than 'peeking around corners' and if you're any good you won't be static enough or without good cover and knowing your own surroundings for it to matter.  If COD-style play is all you know, maybe you should learn how to interact in a true environmental simulation - learn to embrace 3PP for what it's there for - a compensation tool - and stop worrying so much if someone's "peeking around a corner".  Learn situational awareness and don't put yourself in cover situations where someone peeking around a corner is the end of your ability to enjoy the game.  If someone else's desired playstyle ruins yours so much, maybe - just maybe - you're playing the wrong game.  Find one with mechanics that suit your playstyle.

 

I for one know that if the game *were* to be locked wholly to FPP only, that's exactly what I'd do.

 

----

 

If it makes you sick then perhaps dayz is not for you. Perhaps fps are not your cup of tea.

 

Also try the following and you should not get sick.

 

Increase fov

Remove head bob and post processing.

 

This is one of the best examples - from one page of comments before this comment.  

 

If you don't like 3PP, perhaps DayZ is not for you - since 3PP is included in not only the MOD built by Rocket but also in the Standalone.  That was clearly a choice made.

 

DayZ is not a FPS.  It's an environmental simulator.  If the above arguments are the ones you're using, there's something significantly broken with your comprehension of the situation.

 

 

 

 

Dude, read! There are virtually no 1st person only servers left to play on. That's because the gravity of choice sucked them dry. If it would be that easy nobody would complain.

 

 

Also from the page before this one.

 

This person has been vehement about removing 3PP, yet does not comprehend their own argument that DayZ MOD forced 1PP servers did not succeed and basically do not exist (making up what.. 0.5% of all the MOD servers out there? if that?) because no one wants to play them.  If everyone who ranted so hard about 1PP only went to 1PP only servers, they would not be uninhabited and unavailable in MOD, uninhabited in SA experimental.  This idea is spread from a vocal minority entirely unwilling to do what they demand.

 

 

Basically otherwise the noobs wouldn't play this game. First person only should be forced on every server. The bullshit 3p looking round corners and glitching camera through walls to see outside buildings is fucking pathetic.

 

 

This is almost a valid argument.  The funny thing is, you can look through walls just as easily in 1PP by running directly at them.  This is not a matter of the 3PP being broken, or 1PP at that.  The problem here is that buildings were built without their walls being objects and there is currently no "good" solution implemented to reduce server strain and still have every wall in the game be a clipped, solid object.  Worthless 'reasoning' here.

 

 

"Additional options for those hosting servers will be rolled out as soon as we can. We want to encourage a "hardcore

 

SausageKingofChicago, on 24 Dec 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

there's always that.

 

I think the ideal system goes something like this.  Standing, third person.  Crouched, camera is pulled in halfway.  Prone, forced first person.   Gun in hands, camera pulled in halfway.   Aiming down the sight or weapon up, forced first person.  I think that's the best compromise I've come across.

 

this .....but taking a weapon should instantly force you into first person. 

 

 

SausageKingofChicago was quoting something rocket said about how they may implement 3PP v 1PP.  I think that this solution is relatively good (other than forced 1PP when holding a weapon).

 

If I hold a rifle... I should only ever be able to look around approximately 45 degrees to either side, or I have to turn my whole body along with the rifle?  Have you ever held a weapon, in the wilderness, looking around you with everything you've got, listening and trying to absorb the environment around you?  You get fantastic spatial awareness in those situations and can hear a wood louse roll itself up from 5 feet away while seeing every leap wiggle in the breeze.  You're definitely not stuck basically looking forward in a 3 inches up/3 inches down/11 inches left/11 inches right box.

 

You can test this. Go get a weapon - melee is probably what you have around you, or use a firearm if you have one - and go outside.  Have that weapon readied facing north.  Now see what's south of you.  Now look northeast.  Now look 60 degrees upward and southwest.  Run through that again bringing your weapon to bear on all those locations you looked at.

 

OK? Done?  Come in and try that same move in 1PP on DayZ.  Then do it 3PP (of course ending with RMB to get down the site/bring the weapon up).  Tell me which one *felt* more realistic and smooth.  The results may surprise you.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Evil_This

[ShokeR (DayZ) 29]

It's already confirmed long time ago, why open a thread about this?

Edited December 29, 2013 by ShokeR

[Nihilum 209]

It's already confirmed long time ago, why open a thread about this?

If you couldn't tell by 90% of the posts in this topic by the same 5-6 people; neither the fact dean has discussed this in some detail (hint: it's not going anywhere because even Dean likes third person, but it will be tweaked at some point), or the that this is an early alpha will dissuade them from their "My way is right and anyone who disagrees is a baby/douche/asshole/bambi/fodder/retard" way of discussion. 

[Hello moto 70]

The things that strike me most in this ongoing, endless argument are this:

1) Have you ever played /r/outside? Seriously. Go out into the woods. Go run around, hide behind trees, lay on the ground, look over hills and rocks. Go walk through a neighborhood at night and run around trees and backyards. Do this for a few hours then come home and play DayZ or Arma3 with 1PP only.

You'll find, I am sure, that the game, while they try hard, does not allow for anything like a realistic interaction with the world in FPS. Movement is clumsy, you have virtually zero spatial awareness to the objects around you. Third person view much more *accurately* compensates for senses other than vision (and hearing but we know audio is basically 1% accurate in standalone at this point).

2) For everyone who wants the game to be locked down to 1PP only, you're not playing the experimental mercenary servers, are you? You know how I know? They're basically empty.

3) You cry "realism". Do you really think it's realistic that you cannot stand on tip toes to peer over a wall, or peek and look 160-180 degrees behind you around a wall? Do you think it's realistic that you cannot walk through a building without bumping every table and wall because your field of view (even at maximum) extends about 3 inches down and up in front of you and about 11 inches to either side? When you pop 3PP to peek over a wall, it's compensation for not being able to get on tip toes and look over that wall - which you could do in real life, if we had an intelligent and accurate way to simulate it in 1PP, then it wouldn't matter.

4) Why do you recommend turning off head bob for a more comfortable 1PP? Isn't that *exactly the same amount of cheating* as 3PP? If anything the rallying cry should be lock max headbob, lock max blur, lock minimum FOV, lock all graphics settings the same (a much more relevant 'cheat' than 3PP), etc. 3PP is so much less of a worry than just basic graphics settings, so why is this the target of rage?

5) My next point answers that last question. Many of the 1PP or die types are those who *excel at playing 1PP*. So what they want is not for "those cheating @#$&ers who can peek around corners" to not be able to "have that advantage", what they want is for anyone who has more experience with COD than expansive environmental simulators to "have that advantage". Otherwise, they'd demand 1PP only servers and STFU about it. You know why they don't? They don't want to have only 2% of the game's population to play with.

This is really, really demonstrable in this thread. A large number of the 1PP only brigade here make comments like "Make 3rd person only on noob servers" or the one recommendation that insinuated that if 3PP is enabled, then new spawns should start fully looted. If it was a care for the mechanics, it wouldn't come with insult. It comes with insult because it helps them feel that the players who aren't COD:MW "veterans" with xbox achievements in 10 different FPSs across their favored franchise are less than human/worse than them/worth so little they can openly belittle them in such a manner.

--

3PP is for so much more than 'peeking around corners' and if you're any good you won't be static enough or without good cover and knowing your own surroundings for it to matter. If COD-style play is all you know, maybe you should learn how to interact in a true environmental simulation - learn to embrace 3PP for what it's there for - a compensation tool - and stop worrying so much if someone's "peeking around a corner". Learn situational awareness and don't put yourself in cover situations where someone peeking around a corner is the end of your ability to enjoy the game. If someone else's desired playstyle ruins yours so much, maybe - just maybe - you're playing the wrong game. Find one with mechanics that suit your playstyle.

I for one know that if the game *were* to be locked wholly to FPP only, that's exactly what I'd do.

----

This is one of the best examples - from one page of comments before this comment.

If you don't like 3PP, perhaps DayZ is not for you - since 3PP is included in not only the MOD built by Rocket but also in the Standalone. That was clearly a choice made.

DayZ is not a FPS. It's an environmental simulator. If the above arguments are the ones you're using, there's something significantly broken with your comprehension of the situation.

Also from the page before this one.

This person has been vehement about removing 3PP, yet does not comprehend their own argument that DayZ MOD forced 1PP servers did not succeed and basically do not exist (making up what.. 0.5% of all the MOD servers out there? if that?) because no one wants to play them. If everyone who ranted so hard about 1PP only went to 1PP only servers, they would not be uninhabited and unavailable in MOD, uninhabited in SA experimental. This idea is spread from a vocal minority entirely unwilling to do what they demand.

This is almost a valid argument. The funny thing is, you can look through walls just as easily in 1PP by running directly at them. This is not a matter of the 3PP being broken, or 1PP at that. The problem here is that buildings were built without their walls being objects and there is currently no "good" solution implemented to reduce server strain and still have every wall in the game be a clipped, solid object. Worthless 'reasoning' here.

SausageKingofChicago was quoting something rocket said about how they may implement 3PP v 1PP. I think that this solution is relatively good (other than forced 1PP when holding a weapon).

If I hold a rifle... I should only ever be able to look around approximately 45 degrees to either side, or I have to turn my whole body along with the rifle? Have you ever held a weapon, in the wilderness, looking around you with everything you've got, listening and trying to absorb the environment around you? You get fantastic spatial awareness in those situations and can hear a wood louse roll itself up from 5 feet away while seeing every leap wiggle in the breeze. You're definitely not stuck basically looking forward in a 3 inches up/3 inches down/11 inches left/11 inches right box.

You can test this. Go get a weapon - melee is probably what you have around you, or use a firearm if you have one - and go outside. Have that weapon readied facing north. Now see what's south of you. Now look northeast. Now look 60 degrees upward and southwest. Run through that again bringing your weapon to bear on all those locations you looked at.

OK? Done? Come in and try that same move in 1PP on DayZ. Then do it 3PP (of course ending with RMB to get down the site/bring the weapon up). Tell me which one *felt* more realistic and smooth. The results may surprise you.

This exactly.

Why lock every server to 1st person when we can just as easily lock it to third person?

And Gib, children need vaccines, dayz doesn't need to be first person, it never has so that analogy just doesn't work. I for one would play about 1% of what I do now if it was locked to first person.

You go and try spot someone peeking around a building 150-200 meters away in a city, or a forest or anything. Yeah it's not easy. Third person represents, not in the best way but in a way that can't really be simulated in dayz.

[tommes 331]

it's useless to discuss with you :D

you are too stibborn and all you do is flame and rage against other opinions.

 

I only rage against stupid opinions...cuz they're stupid.

 

Having 3rd person enabled does this one huge fuckup to PvP combat which means, it does it to all other players. If DayZ would be a single player game, nobody would care. If it were a strict co-op game, nobody would care. If there'd be enough 1st person only server, nobody would care. But 3rd person became normal. A lot of players don't want to play without it because it gives them comfort. They either don't realize the negative effects on gameplay or they don't care because they like to use it. You only need one of those guys in a group to draw the whole on a 3rd person enabled server unless the group is willing to ditch that guy.

 

Essence is, you have this major fuck up to gameplay vs. what? The personal comfort of yourself.

 

Some players are willing to give up personal comfort to gain a better, more decent gaming experience for them and everybody else. Some just won't give up their support wheels like it's their little teddy bear and cling on it for life.

 

Now who's behaving like a child? Who's stubborn? Who ignores the other opinion?

[drunkenteddybear 9]

you ignore the fact that 3rd person always was part of the game and it was always a personal choice which one you want to use. so why change that?

 

just because YOU (and some others) think that 1st person is so much more gaming experience, you want to remove 3rd person for EVERYBODY.

you want to force other players to play it your way, because you think it's the only way it should be and other opinions are "stupid".

that's just bullshit and pure childish behavior.

 

i don't ignore other opinions at all. i don't want to take something from you. i just think that every player should be able to play like they want to play.

if you prefere 1st person - fine... then use it. but stop this narrow minded rage.

 

but who cares. i highly doubt that 3rd will be removed :)

so this was my last post in this thread. qq more if you want.

show everybody how butthurt you are.

Edited December 29, 2013 by drunkenteddybear

[desryachri 95]

Holy shit this thread just will not die..

Alpher = no first person servers yet.

[weedmasta 784]

Separate hives for 1st and 3rd person servers. Make it an option that can be easily searched for in the server list. Personally I prefer first person, but as it stands now you are at a sever disadvantage if you do not use third person.

 

Oh and third person gives the advantage to everyone yes, but it also removes a good chunk of the suspense and unknown from the game. You easily gain intelligence without having to risk something to gain it.

 

 

Why separate hives? If you want 1st person only play on 1st person servers, if you want to play on 3rd person go and play on those servers. You don't need a separate hive to have both options...

Edited December 29, 2013 by weedmasta

[MCRoadkill 7]

Make it just like in the MOD as a server option, not hard coded removal.

If you don't like 3rd person, then play on a server that doesn't have it.

 

I really like 3rd person, because I don't want to go firstperson all the time and like to check my surrounding when I walk.

I can't see how 3rd person is unfair if everyone has it.

 

why didn't the TS(topicstarter) include a poll? ;)

Edited December 29, 2013 by MCRoadkill

[irishroy 1347]

Well, i like 3rd person for running around.

My character looks so cool :3

 

but when being in a building, etc., i switch to first, ofc, because it's just the atmosphere ;)

[tommes 331]

Also from the page before this one.

 

This person has been vehement about removing 3PP, yet does not comprehend their own argument that DayZ MOD forced 1PP servers did not succeed and basically do not exist (making up what.. 0.5% of all the MOD servers out there? if that?) because no one wants to play them.  If everyone who ranted so hard about 1PP only went to 1PP only servers, they would not be uninhabited and unavailable in MOD, uninhabited in SA experimental.  This idea is spread from a vocal minority entirely unwilling to do what they demand.

 

Dude, you made a lot of arguments of which many sound sensible at first but mostly are bullshit. It's to much of that to be dealt with properly in this forum because the quoting mechanic is shit but maybe I will adress that later on. For now let take this one adressed to me:

 

1st person only server did not succeed. You're right about that. People just want to have their drugs. They don't care if it's bad for them and the people around them.

 

I would gladly play on 1st person servers...but not alone. There's no point in playing a MMO alone other than having all the loot for oneself. I want to interact with other players. I want to have PvP combat as well. I want to play fair. I don't want to be at a disadvantage. I want to play with friends.

 

It is virtually impossible to find a 1st person only server with at least a decent population wich I consider more than 10 players. 

 

If all the 1st persone only advocates would be hardcore enought to ditch their friends and get together on the few remaining servers everything would be fine. They're just not that much of assholes and rather put their egos behind the urges of their friends, which are demanding to play on 3rd person enabled and maybe even crosshairs enabled and whatnot or they won't accompany you on that server.

 

Then they try to convince the other side with discussion and arguments...how uncivilised. Who would do such an outraging thing? Discussing matters with arguments and stuff? Over and over again...with people not willing or capable to even try to understand the argument?

 

The problem is, there's no hope in having hope in the player base. The player base consists of "stupid children" not able to see what's better for them and all around them. So they just keep doing what their parents not explicitly forbid.

 

Time for some parenting. Rocket could just disable 3rd person completely and you little shits coulnd't do anything about it except for whining all day long. He just is no responsible parent at the moment though he already confirmed that there is this problem with 3rp person view enabled and that it should be dealt with. He just didn't do anything yet.

 

Now let's go to the realism thingy.

 

It's a fucking video game! The realism has it's limits. No way around that unless a major leap in technology happens an we all can log into the matrix.

 

BUT....everything is more realistic than having a floating camera 3 m behind and 2 m up your head. That is just the most unrealistic solution to a realism problem. It makes certain things even more unrealistic and that's PvP combat. A central thing to every game with a first person view and guns involved. A major aspect of this kind of game is not just made even more unrealistic but implausible...where plausability is a major credo for Rocket. He doesn't use the word "realistic" regarding to DayZ but "plausible" instead.

 

I just wish he'd finally show the balls to impose his vision of DayZ regardless of whining players as he always proclaimed. If I'd be the lead designer of a game, I would make you play as I intended and it would be right, because I created this world you are in. You cold whine all day long an I would laugh at you and suggest you should finde some game more suitable for you. Lucky for you guys I'm not in power. So I'm forced to trying to convince you guys with arguments, appealing to your intellect and decency, which basically means fighting against windmills.

I'm not good at appealing...as you might have noticed...