Third person view removal from SA discussion

[gibonez 3633]

So according to your logic, in every competitive multiplayer game that uses third person instead of first person everybody is exploiting all the time...?

 

You are if you are using it to peek around corner and see what you should not be able to see.

 

This is especially important in dayz due to its sim background and permadeath system.

[Jamz 253]

Quantifying would actually lend credence to one's opinion and possible show one to be more valid than another. Opinions are only worth what they are based off of and don't magically become valid by simply being an opinion. I could have the opinion that my boss is an asshole and it could be invalid because the only experience I have with them is through work and they might simply be very impartial and strict concerning work and the most friendly and helpful person you have ever met outside work. 

 

 

Well not quite, to suggest that the game is more interesting in FPV for instance is your opinion, completely based on your own set of preferences. To assume that your particular preferences align to any degree with everyone elses does not validate it, because this is not the case.

 

I believe that the players choice in this matter is really a parallel point to the exploit one but also as important and as you know from the other thread I want to see it solved, just without the complete removal of TPV. I just don't see it's necessary with the introduction of FPV only servers and haven't heard any logical reasoning to the contrary.

[vile. 38]

No it's not an exploit, it's a different gameplay mechanic from first person, and since everybody can use it, it gives no player an advantage over another player.

It only becomes and issue when some people prefer not to use that mechanic (which is totally fine by me, i get why some players will prefer first person only) and are therefore at a disadvantage to those who do.

 

This issue is going to get solved once first person only servers are introduced.

There, nobody will be at a disadvantage for using first person only.

 

But saying that people who are using third person are exploiters because they are using a legitimate gameplay mechanic, just because you voluntarily restrict yourself by not using said mechanic, is complete nonsense.

And then trying to even the grounds by forcing everyone to play the game the way you prefer is even more ridiculous...

Edited December 23, 2013 by vile.

[The_Man 393]

You are if you are using it to peek around corner and see what you should not be able to see.

 

This is especially important in dayz due to its sim background and permadeath system.

 

Yeah but it is a video game. You know that other people have third person view. If you run out in the open and don't peek around corners yourself...then you are not as skilled as you think you are. You need to recognize what third person is and how to avoid getting shot or being followed because of it. Just because you want the game to be 110% realism doesn't mean they should rid third person...an integral part of Operation Flashpoint + ARMA series. It is part of the game and the game was designed to have it. It works in these huge maps. 

[Zombie Jesus 723]

On the idea that first person is more "realistic" I will have to say you are deluding yourself if you use that argument. Both are unrealistic. We all know that third person allows you to see places that are not visually accessible so no need to go over those "immersion breakers." But lets make a list of the problems with first person in general and first person in this specific game. 

 

I have the ability to glance around easily without having to utilize alt or move my entire body. I can grab a mirror off a car and peek around corners or over ledges. I can do a chin up on a wall and look at what is on the other side. I have spatial awareness that allows me to understand my place in an environment. I possess the ability to utilize echo location to understand where a moving object is coming from with far better accuracy than is available in this game and most games in general. 

 

Specific to this game, the engine is clunky (less clunky than Arma 2 so far but clunky nonetheless). Light from a flashlight is still not that great and is very disorienting in tight places while in first person and the headlamp points down while in first person. In real life (see why realism is a stupid argument)  I can adjust the angle of light very easily, in DayZ not so much. 

[daze23 549]

So according to your logic, in every competitive multiplayer game that uses third person instead of first person everybody is exploiting all the time...?

not too many "competitive multiplayer" games are third person. at least not of the 'shooter' variety

to be clear, I'm talking about MLG and other organized matches. they're usually pretty picky about using certain rule sets that don't allow for these kinds of exploits

Edited December 23, 2013 by daze23

[Dr-Shade 83]

  TECHNICALLY  "exploit" is actually the correct word....  cheating and hacking it is not however....

 

 

 

ex·ploit  (ksploit, k-sploit)

n.

An act or deed, especially a brilliant or heroic one. See Synonyms at feat¹.

tr.v. (k-sploit, ksploit) ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits

1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.

2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.

3. To advertise; promote.

 

 

  I do actually wonder WHY threads like these are even allowed...  it just pure nonsensical garbage, around and around in circles, because everybody thinks that their OPINION is the only thing that matters.... 

 

  Same story with the KoS threads, the Nighttime threads, the removal of the .50's.....   at the end of the day, its up to the Dev's how this  is dealt with, im pretty sure that they are aware of it, so lets leave it to them yea??

[gaelicwarlord 36]

This is always going to be a divided preference over the playerbase, and there will be a place for you and for them. Really, this doesn't need to be an argument, or even need to be discussed on the forums. It serves no purpose to you, are the game developers, to narrow the gameplay style down to a smaller number of players.

[sobieski12 835]

No it's not an exploit, it's a different gameplay mechanic from first person, and since everybody can use it, it gives no player an advantage over another player.

It only becomes and issue when some people prefer not to use that mechanic (which is totally fine by me, i get why some players will prefer first person only) and are therefore at a disadvantage to those who do.

 

This issue is going to get solved once first person only servers are introduced.

There, nobody will be at a disadvantage for using first person only.

 

But saying that people who are using third person are exploiters because they are using a legitimate gameplay mechanic, just because you voluntarily restrict yourself by not using said mechanic, is complete nonsense.

And then trying to even the grounds by forcing everyone to play the game the way you prefer is even more ridiculous...

 

It took a while for the 3rd person community to defend the exploit.

 

Any person on a roof top can exploit this camera and get an absolute advantage over another player. Which is quite funny because this is exactly what I am doing while I snipe players in cherno, do the players of which I am shooting at have a chance to spot me? Nope. 

* I've got a clear shot since I can abuse this camera and server system in never getting caught.

 

Could I just continue to server hop and kill more players, well yes since this is the public hive at its best.

 

I'll probably get flamed for this post, but the community needs to deal with reality.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Sobieski12

[vile. 38]

It really is not, if you use the term exploit in a video game connotation, which i think we all are.

But yea, should just stop arguing because 3rd person will never get removed, and first person servers will be added soonish anyway.

Everybody's happy!

[TangoAlpha 39]

not to many "competitive multiplayer" games are third person. at least not of the 'shooter' variety

 

Ever heard of a game called Socom? It is a third person game with the ability for first person. Socom in its early days (socom 1 and 2) was very much an MLG and competitive third person shooter game. 

[dgeesio 1034]

omg this was said many moons ago its not being removed. so stop right there.it shouldnt be removed either.

Edited December 23, 2013 by dgeesio

[vile. 38]

Any person on a roof top can exploit this camera and get an absolute advantage over another player. Which is quite funny because this is exactly what I am doing while I snipe players in cherno, do the players of which I am shooting at have a chance to spot me? Nope. 

* I've got a clear shot since I can abuse this camera and server system in never getting caught.

So what, and on first person servers, snipers would reign supreme, because everybody trying to stick their head out to figure out where im shooting from will get their heads blown off...

And bandits laying ambushes would have a huge advantage over the current system for similar reasons.

It would be an exploit the devs had never intended that the current system could be used like this, and seeing how arma3 still has third person view i highly doubt it...

[wisper 61]

The only true reason why 3rd person is important, is so I can rest my eyes on the backside of my female character, while runing :p

Edited December 23, 2013 by Wisper

[dallas 5195]

If you stand still in any highly populated area in Chernarus, you're seconds away from being sniped. Someone camping a roof is completely immobile and as long as you place buildings and object between you and the always obvious sniper positions, the sniper is going to have a real hard time at getting a bead on you or leading you for enough time to take an accurate first shot.

 

If you're standing still in Cherno with a good view to all the hillsides and tall buildings or enjoying the view on the middle of the runway at NWAF, you're exposed to so many long range hideouts, no matter if you're on a first or third person server, you'll never spot that sniper getting ready to kill you.

 

In order to stay alive in DayZ, you have to stay moving and keep thinking about your surroundings.

 

Don't be a sitting duck.

[whatup2003 67]

You know what? I'm tired of this discussion and casual players who defend TPV as well. Let's just live with it.

[Mao Zedong 48]

On the idea that first person is more "realistic" I will have to say you are deluding yourself if you use that argument. Both are unrealistic. We all know that third person allows you to see places that are not visually accessible so no need to go over those "immersion breakers." But lets make a list of the problems with first person in general and first person in this specific game. 

 

I have the ability to glance around easily without having to utilize alt or move my entire body. I can grab a mirror off a car and peek around corners or over ledges. I can do a chin up on a wall and look at what is on the other side. I have spatial awareness that allows me to understand my place in an environment. I possess the ability to utilize echo location to understand where a moving object is coming from with far better accuracy than is available in this game and most games in general. 

 

Specific to this game, the engine is clunky (less clunky than Arma 2 so far but clunky nonetheless). Light from a flashlight is still not that great and is very disorienting in tight places while in first person and the headlamp points down while in first person. In real life (see why realism is a stupid argument)  I can adjust the angle of light very easily, in DayZ not so much. 

 

This. Realism can't be an argument for third person. If you want to make the game realistic I better expect to have everything, i mean literally everything, i could do in real life in the game. Just like he pointed out. It's a video game, not real life. I prefer third person for a lot of reasons. Personally, I've been told it takes more skill to play on first person only servers, I found myself living longer with more kills. Everyone is equal on whatever server you choose: 1st or 3rd

[daze23 549]

If you stand still in any highly populated area in Chernarus, you're seconds away from being sniped. Someone camping a roof is completely immobile and as long as you place buildings and object between you and the always obvious sniper positions, the sniper is going to have a real hard time at getting a bead on you or leading you for enough time to take an accurate first shot.

 

If you're standing still in Cherno with a good view to all the hillsides and tall buildings or enjoying the view on the middle of the runway at NWAF, you're exposed to so many long range hideouts, no matter if you're on a first or third person server, you'll never spot that sniper getting ready to kill you.

 

In order to stay alive in DayZ, you have to stay moving and keep thinking about your surroundings.

 

Don't be a sitting duck.

that is the purpose and advantage of having a sniper rifle and long range scope. and it's still conceivable a player could spot the sniper with binocs or whatever

[Uncle Zed 272]

It's so hard to move around in first person. I'd probably get dizzy playing in first person will all the movement I'd have to do to see everything. If people want first person view only, they should find a server that has third person disabled, but certainly do not remove third person for everyone.

[muggerfugger (DayZ) 35]

i'd be fine with it being removed if they added the ability to lean over  side ways and have a realistic radius. Right now you can't see everything you need to see.

[sobieski12 835]

So what, and on first person servers, snipers would reign supreme, because everybody trying to stick their head out to figure out where im shooting from will get their heads blown off...

And bandits laying ambushes would have a huge advantage over the current system for similar reasons.

It would be an exploit the devs had never intended that the current system could be used like this, and seeing how arma3 still has third person view i highly doubt it...

 

Wrong, on the 1st person server you would need to stand or crouch on the edge of a tower of which you can be spotted and counter-sniped.

* While on the 3rd person server you can stay prone and just wait for the right moment to go crouch and take the shot. 

* 3rd person camera exploiting 101

[louist 163]

Strategos: not all servers would apply it, just as not all servers in the mod do. And even if most of them do, that's just an expression of how popular and desired it is.

As someone said earlier, options are much better than impositions.

[sobieski12 835]

If you stand still in any highly populated area in Chernarus, you're seconds away from being sniped. Someone camping a roof is completely immobile and as long as you place buildings and object between you and the always obvious sniper positions, the sniper is going to have a real hard time at getting a bead on you or leading you for enough time to take an accurate first shot.

 

If you're standing still in Cherno with a good view to all the hillsides and tall buildings or enjoying the view on the middle of the runway at NWAF, you're exposed to so many long range hideouts, no matter if you're on a first or third person server, you'll never spot that sniper getting ready to kill you.

 

In order to stay alive in DayZ, you have to stay moving and keep thinking about your surroundings.

 

Don't be a sitting duck.

 

No offense the last 10 players I've killed in cherno where all running, any better advice for them?

[dallas 5195]

Don't run in straight lines?

[Snawfu (DayZ) 4]

No it's not an exploit, it's a different gameplay mechanic from first person, and since everybody can use it, it gives no player an advantage over another player.

It only becomes and issue when some people prefer not to use that mechanic (which is totally fine by me, i get why some players will prefer first person only) and are therefore at a disadvantage to those who do.

 

This issue is going to get solved once first person only servers are introduced.

There, nobody will be at a disadvantage for using first person only.

 

But saying that people who are using third person are exploiters because they are using a legitimate gameplay mechanic, just because you voluntarily restrict yourself by not using said mechanic, is complete nonsense.

And then trying to even the grounds by forcing everyone to play the game the way you prefer is even more ridiculous...

Actually with third person you can extremely easily create situations where the playing field isn't level with two other players by looking over a wall whereas the other person, even with third person, won't be able to see you because of the difference in the camera angle. This is a fact, not an opinion. First person removes this.