Zombies as a cure for KOS

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

zombies are not a cure for anything they are just janky things that get in the way of the sweet pvp in dayz.

 

Zombies add absolutely nothing to the game thats why people loved wasteland.

 

Which begs the question, why don't the pvp'ers go play wasteland? No easy kills?

[HIHBGaming 14]

Sure, in a fist fight I wouldn't want to go shot for shot with a zombie and win. But, the uninfected use weapons and act intelligently, that should not be compensated for by making zombies stronger/deadlier. Even if they weren't zombies, but actual Russian soldiers, they still wouldn't be as deadly as the human players. AI never is, and in the quest to make them deadly, game developers usually give them super human abilities like aim bot and wall hacks. Zombies driven by AI will always be less of a threat then human controlled players. Trying to change that is just going to hurt the game in my opinion.

 

I think you're missing my point... I'm not saying make Zeds stronger than human players because they will never be, being mindless infected. They should however be a threat, far more than they are now. PvP should be a conscious decision based on a multitude of things, Zeds being one of them and scarcity of ammo/supplies being another. You should not be able to run into a town and do circles around Zeds shooting any other players in sight without consequence or do the same while collecting gear... It all comes down to Risk VS. Reward.

 

Again, am I saying do away with PvP? NO, far from it. A lot of people confuse mindless KOS with proper/tactical PvP and I'm all for the latter. Either way the mindless KOS will be made as a conscious decision that may most likely result in demise if not extremely careful.

Edited December 22, 2013 by R.Neville

[Imbalanxd 59]

Maybe in CoD. KoS is the cancer that kills DayZ

 

If KoS and the associated banditry was removed from the game completely right now, the game would be dead within a week. With no threat of being instantly killed by another thinking player, almost all sense of urgency and fear would leave the game. There would be no more reason to be alert and focused at all times. It would turn into nothing more than a minecraft copy where you run around building things and giving little thought to anything else. KoS is what makes this game what it is.

 

That being said, the issue is, as many have stated, that KoS is just an obvious choice, and obvious choices are never good for gameplay.

 

OP, think about what you are asking for. Think about how one would go about making zombies the primary threat. You can make them downright impossible to kill. You can make them insanely fast and impossible to shoot reliably. You cannot increase there numbers to amounts which make them impossible for players to manage. This is unfortunately a technical hurdle which nobody has been able to overcome yet. Not just in the ArmA engine, but in gaming in general. Even a game like L4D2, which arguably has had the best zombie AI of any game to date, had to limit their numbers to 40, and this on a very small and limited map. Numbers are simply not an avenue that can be explored in making zombies more of a threat.

 

In my opinion, zombies should definitely not be the primary threat. Zombies are stupid, they're melee, they're slow. That isn't a threat, and it shouldn't be. Zombies should be a threat when combined with fighting other players. The primary threat they should pose is either in revealing an enemies position, either through seeing a zombie chasing something, or in a player being forced to shoot a zombie. Or they should pose a threat in that they prevent tactical positioning.

[cadeudo 24]

agreed, and if ppl have much ammo and few Z`s , whoes they going to shot? ^^

[Aeoneth 163]

 

2. Kill in one or two hits. Make the first hit like a 50% chance to die, and even if you don't die from it, this hit should infect you, your character should get sick, until the point he dies and resurrect as a zombie while the AI takes over and you have to restart the game.

 

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this suggestion.  "Realistic" or not, your now leaving the chance to be killed to a random chance (and a rather high one at that).  Especially combined with the running change you mentioned, at that point melee would be suicide. 

 

The Running Swipe is fine but I don't believe this idea would be good for the game at all.

[Igglas Cage 173]

KoS is part of the game and it has greatly decreased since you can restrain people IMHO. I doubt that more zombies will aid the KoS due to the fact that they

are no threat but simply give away your location if you aggro. I know the zombie KI is being work on but it will take a very long time until they are effective.

[gibonez 3633]

Which begs the question, why don't the pvp'ers go play wasteland? No easy kills?

 

 

Opposite it means more to get a kill in Dayz. You work alot harder for kills in dayz so its more rewarding.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Opposite it means more to get a kill in Dayz. You work alot harder for kills in dayz so its more rewarding.

 

That's not true, you work a lot harder to survive, kills are just a click of the mouse button. I would argue that in Wasteland 100% of the people are looking to PVP so they're extremely defensive. In DayZ a lot of people are role playing a survivor, & they're easy targets if your goal is simply kills.

[whoops 10]

IMO making zeds tough as hell won't decrease KOS but only increase it. See, if your group have too choose between going to a military base and risk your lifes by fighting a hoard of ass-kicking zombies, or just ambush some other small group for their loot, what is easier and safer? 

[Gdaddy22 299]

If KoS and the associated banditry was removed from the game completely right now, the game would be dead within a week. With no threat of being instantly killed by another thinking player, almost all sense of urgency and fear would leave the game. There would be no more reason to be alert and focused at all times. It would turn into nothing more than a minecraft copy where you run around building things and giving little thought to anything else. KoS is what makes this game what it is.

 

That being said, the issue is, as many have stated, that KoS is just an obvious choice, and obvious choices are never good for gameplay.

 

 

I don't want KoS to be completely removed, It's just ridiculous that 99.7% of DayZ will shoot you in the head as soon as they will see you coming from half a mile away. It needs to be reduced in a natural way. Put benefits of being a hero. There still would be a reason to be alert and focused all the time - other players,  and the zombies. Right now they aren't a threat, but I hope it will change soon, changing alot in the game.

[Olfart 13]

Yea I think there's way too much KOS as well. The occasional bandit adds spice but there's a difference between occasional bandits and 90% of the player base executing any player they spot instantly without thought. I don't like "punishing" people to be good - that old humanity system was just that - artificially punishing the bad by revealing their nature to the good guys.

I also thought immediately of a more hostile environment as an incentive to reduce all the pointless KOS. There's KOS with a point, and that won't disappear of course. Making the zombies and possibly other wildlife a LOT more challenging may be the best course of action. Making the environment more hostile through scarcity of food, etc is probably bad way to go as that's something that can be solved by murder.

I'm pretty darn new, and as long as I have a pipe wrench or better I not only feel safe, but happily kill every zombie in sight so I can loot in peace. Bandits should be no more than 25% of you worries, but currently they pose 100% of the danger, and just about everyone is one.

After all Rockets talk about the survival aspect, adding item damage, and ability to capture, it's pretty clear they are trying to curb the pointless KOS, so with a bit if luck, something will change during alpha.

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

ATM the game is defininetly not balanced, the zombies are a joke but I've to say i really liked it how it was in the mod. If we get the amount of zombies from the mod, and the "character" from the zombies in SA with for example running inside of buildings, then it'll be balanced in my oppinion, and even if not you can still adjust it step for step.
Back in the mod i shot a player, ran in a building, chopped the zombies with my 3 meter range hatchet but in the SA with the amount from the mod  i'd have to shoot the person and then maybe shoot the zombies too or take a long time for chopping them one by one running around, with the risk of another player. I think this would be perfect

Edited December 23, 2013 by Nesuma

[dystopeon 46]

I think everyone will have to be a little more patient for the zombie's to reach maximum potential. I think the aim is for several thousand dynamic z's, forest spawning and much more regulation around sound trigger radii. It WILL reduce PvP, but I think the aim with zombies in the first place was to just flush out the campers. This game is really the ultimate persistent combat simulator, which was the intention. 

[Sickerthansars 53]

Guys Hey Guys Guys I think we need another KOS topic thread

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

The thing is, zombies SHOULD be #1 threat in this game

 

No, they actually shouldn't. rocket has said from Day 1 of the mod that players are meant to be the #1 threat in the game. Humans are a far superior opponent and make for a much more intense and interesting game than going up against a mindless AI with repetitive behavior which can surely be manipulated no matter who sophisticated it gets.

 

If you want a game that's primarily about killing hordes of zombies and gathering goodies, there really are plenty of options out there. DayZ is and will remain primarily a PvP game with zombies as one of the mechanics to drive player interaction (the other main one being survival mechanics like food and sickness).

[Rage Infected 9]

Check out my post in regards to this thread:  http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/157541-kos-general-what-to-do-how-to-fix/?p=1578475    :thumbsup:

 

Each time you kill another player the Zombies/Infected are more and more easily able to detect you and from further distances.  This will mean that KoS Bandits will have Hordes of Zombies/Infected attacking them whenever they enter a highly Zombie/Infected populated area of the map.  Which will make the game more fun for everyone..... but maybe not for the Trolls & Griefers.   :rolleyes:

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Check out my post in regards to this thread:  http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/157541-kos-general-what-to-do-how-to-fix/?p=1578475    :thumbsup:

 

Each time you kill another player the Zombies/Infected are more and more easily able to detect you and from further distances. 

 

Check out my middle finger. I put it up when someone posts a completely ridiculous suggestion.

[Gator Biggs 22]

Check out my post in regards to this thread:  http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/157541-kos-general-what-to-do-how-to-fix/?p=1578475    :thumbsup:

 

Each time you kill another player the Zombies/Infected are more and more easily able to detect you and from further distances.  This will mean that KoS Bandits will have Hordes of Zombies/Infected attacking them whenever they enter a highly Zombie/Infected populated area of the map.  Which will make the game more fun for everyone..... but maybe not for the Trolls & Griefers.   :rolleyes:

 

You can't punish one particular playstyle.

[Rage Infected 9]

You can't punish one particular playstyle.

 

Why not?  If it improves the game for the majority of us then it must be a good thing.  Right now those at do not KoS are punished, and as it currently stands KoS is easy mode DayZ.

 

 

Check out my middle finger. I put it up when someone posts a completely ridiculous suggestion.

 

What's so ridiculous about my suggestion?

[wolfsburg62 66]

I dont agree. Humans are the most dangerous animal. I believe it was the inspiration for Rocket to make this game. Zombies are stupid and slow. But other people, other people are fast and smart. This is the way it should be. Just wait until they add 10,000 zombies per server, things will balance out. 

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

What's so ridiculous about my suggestion?

 

Well, let's see. It assigns some kind of crazy supernatural power to zombies whereby they are capable of "smelling" bad people from far away. So in that sense, it's just downright goofy. What are they, undead Santa Clauses?

 

But, more importantly it seeks to punish players for what you deem "bad behavior." This is not in the spirit of the game. rocket wants players to be the ones who drive player behavior, not artificial, weird game mechanics that punish or reward certain behaviors.

 

If you want a mechanic where zombies can smell people who KoS, then how about a mechanic where zombies can smell people who don't? Zombies hate Goody Two-Shoes so they go after them with a vengeance. Oh, but that's not what you want because you think your way of playing the game is "right" and you're trying to dig up ways to punish people who think otherwise, right? 

Edited December 23, 2013 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Rage Infected 9]

Well, let's see. It assigns some kind of crazy supernatural power to zombies whereby they are capable of "smelling" bad people from far away. So in that sense, it's just downright goofy. What are they, undead Santa Clauses?

 

But, more importantly it seeks to punish players for what you deem "bad behavior." This is not in the spirit of the game. rocket wants players to be the ones who drive player behavior, not artificial, weird game mechanics that punish or reward certain behaviors.

 

If you want a mechanic where zombies can smell people who KoS, then how about a mechanic where zombies can smell people who don't? Zombies hate Goody Two-Shoes so they go after them with a vengeance. Oh, but that's not what you want because you think your way of playing the game is "right" and you're trying to dig up ways to punish people who think otherwise, right? 

 

Thanks for the constructive reply.   :thumbsup:

 

The point of my background story was to make it far less supernatural and more scientific reason for the Zombie outbreak, and also a more natural reasoning for the Zombie/Infected gameplay mechanic that I proposed.  Rabies do turn animals (like dogs for example) into the equivalent of Zombies, so a mutated strain could do the same to humans, and that was the premise of the movie 28 Days Later.  Also Certain Pheromones do cause many animals to become super aggressive, so why not infected humans?

 

I wasn't really meaning to so much to punish Kill on Sight players, but to implement a gameplay mechanic to balance things out, so that people don't just go around killing almost everyone they see.  This Zombies being able to smell your aggressive pheromones will just be more of a hindrance to most skilled bandits, it definitely won't make it harder than playing as a Carebear, and will also make the game more challenging and enjoyable for everyone (except for Trolls and Griefers).

 

My idea is all about balancing the positives and negatives of being an outright Carebear compared to a KoS bandit, so that people will weigh up these positives and negatives whenever they come across another player and to decide if it's worth killing them or not.

 

Also the other main reason I brainstormed this idea is that I am a KoS Bandit.  Basically 90% of other players I come across I attempt to kill, as that's always been the most easiest and less frustrating way to play this game.   :D

 

Rocket wanted this game to be a post apocalyptic zombie survival simulation, not CoD.   B)

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Rocket wanted this game to be a post apocalyptic zombie survival simulation, not CoD.   B)

 

I'm pretty sure he has never said anything of the sort. You WANT rocket to want this game to be a "post apocalyptic zombie survival simulation" but those aren't his words.

 

What he did say is "Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose."

 

Get it? As I choose. Not as YOU choose, but me. I get to decide.

 

And, point of order, he HAS said that he hates people who complain about "CoD players" ruining the game, because he actually really likes CoD and thinks it's a great game and that people need to stop blaming their problems on it.

[Gator Biggs 22]

I'm interested to see a direct quote from Dean Hall regarding what 'he wants' for this game. Far too many people saying this or that wasn't his intention etc without actually giving a source or quote.

[Subject42 20]

IMO making zeds tough as hell won't decrease KOS but only increase it. See, if your group have too choose between going to a military base and risk your lifes by fighting a hoard of ass-kicking zombies, or just ambush some other small group for their loot, what is easier and safer? 

 

That's right and that's the way it should be (weighing out options to get loot) and not like "lol i shoot this new spawn here cause YOLO" or "I know this player have no loot at all but i better shoot him anyway" or even "This player helped me a lot and gave me all i have got... but i found a Makarov so better shoot him".

 

Vote for stronger zombies btw :)