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[Sooden 301]

Most of us PvPers play because we think this is how an authentic post-apocalyptic society would actually be. Carebears who come upon an armed stranger who is scavenging for goods and try to reason with him, only to be shot in the face, also don't "respawn in RL". I fail to understand how you think a post-apocalyptic society would be anything but cuthroat.

 

not saying there would be no KOS, normally people would be holded up , not to waste ammo (but there is to much in Dayz atm so you can just spray it) And not sure how Dayz will fix all the issues, after all they are the smart ones. But a Lone wolf with lots of ammo and weapons hunting people is not realistic and they would be hunted down and removed, and stable groups form that learn to trade and such. You would not have people just hanging out picking off people for fun, putting them selves in danger and wasting resources on the chance that person has something, they would not last. Now i don't know if Dazy can create the correct dynamic for the planned type of game, as i don't think anyone has yet, but if they can, they have a new model for this sort of game

 

Disaster > looting fighting > groups form> lone wolfs remove> communities and trading and as we have today tribal warfare.

 

yeah it gonna be ruff but the kitted out bandit just taking people out for fun not a realistic part of the dynamic. So if they cant find a way to fix it, just another war game and i have seen this in other games as a main plot >< but its not realistic.

 

So, to get this straight. not saying stop KOS, not saying let all hug, Just get it real and i think this will happen over time as the game develops.

[LeeEverett 15]

All those ideas are amazing. The only one I'm not that crazy about is the aggressive NPC controlled loot spawns. The great thing about your ideas is that it won't completely do away with KoS but it will add some significant downfalls to playing that way, while still keeping some of the benefits (easy loot etc etc)

[aj_ (DayZ) 18]

Most of us PvPers play because we think this is how an authentic post-apocalyptic society would actually be. Carebears who come upon an armed stranger who is scavenging for goods and try to reason with him, only to be shot in the face, also don't "respawn in RL". I fail to understand how you think a post-apocalyptic society would be anything but cuthroat.

 

No, it would not. It is well documented that in war, soldiers have an extremely powerful innate aversion to killing other human beings, even if their life is in danger (go read up on it; it's fascinating). This only applies when you can actually see the person you're supposed to kill (does not apply to, say, bombing from high altitude). In other words, human beings (normal humans beings) are by nature "carebears", and you are likely one of them Mallow, no matter what your video game activities might lead you to think. The only reason you don't hear much about this is due to the fact that these days, war is very impersonal due to all the available technology, and also because the military has gotten very good at desensitization.

 

I suspect that this aversion would be exacerbated in the presence of a more serious and alien threat, such as zombies.

Edited December 22, 2013 by aj_

[Sooden 301]

No, it would not. It is well documented that in war, soldiers have an extremely powerful innate adversity to killing other human beings, even if their life is in danger (go read up on it; it's fascinating). This only applies when you can actually see the person you're supposed to kill (does not apply to, say, bombing from high altitude). In other words, human beings (normal humans beings) are by nature "carebears", and you are likely one of them Mallow, no matter what your video game activities might lead you to think. The only reason you don't hear much about this is due to the fact that these days, war is very impersonal due to all the available technology, and also because the military has gotten very good at desensitization.

 

I suspect that this adversity would be exacerbated in the presence of a more serious and alien threat, such as zombies.

 

Gotta give you beans for that :)

[wickerrman 12]

I agree with some points. But this game should never become NPC-based. It's all about player experience, nothing is planned out. You do what you want, therefore what happens to you is rarely expected and much more interesting because of that.

 

My favourite experience of the mod was a firefight between me and 2 others near Three Valleys, it was the most tense FFA over a car spawn. I chose to go there and what I found was more fun than any quest can ever be.

 

Any safe area should be completely player-built and player-run, which of course requires more ability to build defense like are planned for the distant future of the SA.

 

Finally, to do with KOS...there has to be some representation of sanity/humanity that will impact on a player through their health/aim/ability to play the game. There has to be some kind of punishment of sorts for firing at someone, something that a bandit can take the risk of being. Something similar to the idea of hearing a loud heartbeat when looking at a bandit like in the mod, it can't be something visual it has to be something you really have to pay attention to. So that bandits have to work hard to kill someone...but not too hard, otherwise they will stop playing that way full stop.

Edited December 22, 2013 by wickerrman

[Zogvarn 118]

So basically you want SA to turn into Epoch mod..no......no....No......NO

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[doctorbadsign 645]

One way to kill kiddies with BF4 and CoD hard on..stop playing DayZ ..this is my experience so far...i try to alpha test and see bugs and all fine and dandy till someone will wanna play cod on me and fire his gun for the shits and giggles..i am so sick of this crap really REALLY! they must do one simple thing...New spawn amnesty...1 to 2 hours invulnerability for new player so he can gather the crap he needs and get off the coast...this yes its uber but would stop the average hard on jocker saying"uhuhu duhuhu i gotz a uberz snipah rifle...now uhuh i smartz and i haz ballz i killz newz spawn lolollololol"

this really pisses the living bejeesus outta me..i try to do alpha test not to play cod.....

 

1. The fact that people come here to whine about their new spawn being killed makes people actively want to shoot new spawns

 

2. Why make new spawns invulnerable? Why is your character so special to you before you have anything? To me new spawns are as good as invincible cause I don't give a shit when I die as a new spawn. Fuck it just start over, I lost a few easy to find items.

 

3. How is people killing you stopping you from testing the game? Avoiding other players is easy, you just gotta have your wits about you. Don't run around towns standing up straight, crouch and move slowly, stick behind cover and always look to see if anyone is moving near you. Also don't run around areas where there is bound to be loads of people. Go off into the countryside. With 40 players on a server, you can easily play without meeting anyone, just gotta avoid the places that everyone goes to.

[failhorse 2]

I have a story that's relevant. I was with 4 friends traveling north. We started taking shots. It was night, and we were unsure exactly where they were coming from. Only 1 of us had a gun. We assumed a squad was tracking us. Long story short. It was a single person hiding on top of a low apartment. He was a terrible shot. As an example this isn't banditry. Aside from being completely stupid on the players part. He had no risk so he went for it. We caught him coming down a ladder. 6 shots, then nothing. (except a ching) He ran out of ammo. Baseball bat + handcuffs and a blood bag kit. Mid way through he disconnected. What a single player attempted against 5 is just stupid. But he did it. He had a badly damaged M4 and started with apx 90 ammo.

 

OK Alpha blah blah blah. If i'm shooting a damaged gun... Most of the ammo I've seen is worn or damaged. I'd expect at some point to have a mis-fire or jam. When this is implemented, it will become more dangerous to simply fire first. Plus if Zeds are attracted by sound or a fresh kill.

 

I'm all for KOS. But I'd like to get held up at least once. Personal experience, it's more fun holding people up. Even made some new friends when the subjects were cool/funny about it. It would be equally cool to see someone's gun explode [ruin] in their hands for using crappy ammo. Just saying.

Edited December 22, 2013 by failhorse

[skavier470 0]

kill on sight is good it makes the game what it is! with out bandits this would be another looting simulator with friends.

without KOS there would be no enemys, no enemys would make the game pointless.

Dayz lives on the basic fear of loosing everything anytime.

also if they would introduce skills and shit , i will going to puke and demand my money back.

this is fucking dayz, your skill is YOU

Edited December 22, 2013 by skavier470

[Golgo82 28]

1.

Kind of okay..even though rocket has stated that there will be no skill system in DayZ (AFAIK..his stance could have changed, time - or rocket will tell)

 

2.

NPC camps with guards and all that jazz? Lol..probably not gonna happen. Why? Because - again AFAIK - rocket wants DayZ to be about player interaction...not npc interaction. That thing about bandits being shunned from there falls into the category of punishing a certain playstyle which rocket also has stated to not be in his vision of DayZ.

 

3.

Some kind of "safe" trading might not be too bad, but that is something the playerbase can..and should try to establish..I faintly remember back in the day there was this Freeside Trader Clan..something like that.

 

4.

Again, player Interaction > NPC interaction..also these camps would make the rarity of weapons obsolete and be permafarmed for easy gear aquirement so, never gonna happen.

 

5.

This, again is something that should be made by the playerbase Bounty Hunting/Law enforcer Clans..not wow-esque killquests where turning in 10 dwarf ears gives you a battleaxe of ogre decapitation.

 

6.

Oh Its magic time again, thats nice. So the characters should magically know if someone has done good/bad deeds..thats cute! And is hopefully never gonna happen. And please dear god (rocket) dont let yourself get pressured to include "bandit/hero skins" that was a really bad idea - wouldnt really work that well with the current clothing system and is overbearingly immersion breaking and "unrealistic" (wanted to use that word for a long time in a dayz-related context, so here you go).

 

7.

So Heros get stuff like Faster movement, more stamina, more health/blood and need less food/drink? That doesnt sound stupidly overpowered, biased and shoehorned at all. Never gonna happen.

 

8.

Humanity, a system that will be incredibly difficult and timeconsuming to develop.

How exactly would the humanity system determine if the three guys I just shot in self defense (they were charging me with axes when I told them I was friendly) were legitimate kills? How does the system know when a bandit is punching newbies unconscious at the bus station in kamenka, then uses saline bags to heal them up to get hero status? There are so many ways a system like that could get exploited and with the ridiculous amount of goodies to go with being a goody two-shoes *everyone* would try to find a way to work his/her way around that.

 

9.

Dangerous places, that you would only be able to overcome with the right gear and teamwork. Well, as long as that danger would be environmental hazards, remote locations and massive zombie hordes, then fuck yes!

If it would entail a military base with NPC Soldier/Mercenary/Bandit Inhabitants then hell no!

[Kegguli 1]

In the far future when maybe NPC:s will be added, bandits could have a isolated place to spawn from and not all places are willing to trade with them for example cause they have a reputation according to their actions. More kills mean more unstable mind, which could need medication to stop themselves from going totally insane or something. Just my opinions on the matter.

[Zeeb (DayZ) 75]

We'll see how it turns out.

[doctorbadsign 645]

I think you're ideas are good Zeeb and you should look to implementing them somewhat down the line when DayZ becomes available to modders. I don't think they will suit everyone however, so I don't agree that they should be put into the main game.

[cywehner1234 582]

I sure hope that npc's are not added. We just need base building, hunting, well's, stuff like that. So we can sustain and run around a lot. The most fun I had with Epoch mod WAS the base building. I dont like NPC's though, they ruin what DayZ is. Much more things are going to come out in the future, along with base building and cars and heli's. It's just, bland right now cause it's an alpha. 

[hypergolem 39]

It is not a problem of bandits. I think bandits are an essential element to the game and the zombie catastrophe environment. The problem is that KOS is always the easiest and most "logical" solution in a random encounter of two or more players in game. Also the player who is willing to KOS without any moral prejudice is at a huge advantage against the player who would rather salute or talk first before start shooting. I don't KOS but I'm debating if it is the only way to survive once geared up and if you want to visit more popular locations. Not sure if adding the elements you listed would be a solution. But I would surely like to see less trigger happy KOS situations.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

1#

As someone already stated, making your character able to learn and improve skills during his/her lifetime would make people less likely to risk a death

 

Correct. This would make me far more prone to shooting random strangers. I'm not going to risk having some random jagoff around me if my death is going to be an even larger penalty. So, maybe this works for some people but I believe for many it would have the opposite affect. The safest I feel is when I'm with trusted friends or alone. If I see someone I don't know and I have a ton of "skills" on the line, I'm going to shoot them even faster, and put a couple extra bullets in them just to make sure they're dead.

 

2#

I know most people will flame the idea of having survivor camps with NPC's, but as an MMO this could be of great value 

 

Absolutely never going to happen. Friendly NPC's who encourage a particular play style by defending good players from bad players will never, ever be in DayZ. rocket has very explicitly said he has no intention of ever doing anything like this, and I'm glad. If you want to set up a "survivor camp" then get some friends together and go do it yourself.

 

3#

The need of communication is valuable, having a safe trade function could prevent some random killing

 

Communication is great and obviously a priority. Radios are already planned, and hand signals have been vastly improved over the mod. Direct communication works better, too. 

 

Also, one thing people don't quite realize yet but the availability of the wide variety of head and face wear in the game is actually a communication tool. All your friends should wear the same or similar hats/facemasks so you can quickly recognize each other in a firefight or when you get separated.

 

As for "safe trade," I don't know what you mean. If you mean some means to trade with zero risk, then nope. Definitely not. Interacting with other people should always carry some risk.

 

4#

What if there were actually military/bandit settlements with NPC's

 

See above RE: no. If you want to make settlements, you're going to have to do it yourself. NPC's aren't going to come to anyone's aid in DayZ.

 

5#

Killing a bandit should give a reward, not the other way around, KoS'ing a bandit should be beneficial.

 

Killing a bandit does provide a benefit. No more bandit.

 

If you want a "bounty hunting" system you're going to have to figure out how to do it yourself.

 

Dog tags or identifiable body parts are a good idea, but you will have to turn them over to other players, not magical NPCs who have infinite rewards to hand out.

 

Pretty much anything you want NPC's to do the answer is going to be the same: figure out a way for players to do it. unless rocket has vastly changed his plans for the game, NPC's are not going to be a part of DayZ. If they are, they're sure as hell not going to be protecting you or handing out goodies to reward your good behavior.

 

6#

What if when we stood close to a positive humanity player we get a message like "This person might be trustable."

 

Are you psychic?

 

No?

 

Then no.

 

7#

A hero is a hero and should be treated as such.

How about lower prices at NPC trading?

 

How about no?

 

8#

This one is a simple one, simply leave your humanity locked on to the character, even after death

 

I think this is the plan, but honestly I don't really like it. I should be able to be an evil murdering asshole in one life and a Hero in the next. Different survivors, different stories. My past actions should only impact my current life.

 

9#

What if DayZ had things you could do only with the best gear?

Maybe certain places could only be raided with military gear because of the danger level, or maybe quests obtained from NPC based on gear?

 

Yeah! And what if these places had "bosses" who dropped "epic loot" and required a bunch of players to band together to form a "raid" and, uhh, sorry I puked on my shoes while I was typing that.

Edited December 22, 2013 by ZedsDeadBaby

[DrunknesMonster 3]

#10

A Fix to combat logging / alt f4. I try to rob players but poof they're gone. Instead I just kos and take what I need.

Drunknes

[Alpha Cowboy 17]

Kos is mostly a side effect of bandits and fresh spawn/bambi hunting, there's no real way to prevent that,nor should there be. It is too bad there isn't a way to discourage it, maybe make it so within some amount of time after spawning you don't count till kill counts. But that's not the issue.

The main issue is Kos, which largely happens because its simple survival. I think changing the skins so from base humanity killing 2 survivors who haven't damaged you first gives you a bandit skin. Additionally make it much easier to identify hero's and bandits, red bandit text when your reticule is over them or withing a close proximity, blue hero text in the same way for hero's. I can't count the number of times I was killed when playing hero because I wasn't easily identified.

[Gdaddy22 299]

OP

 

I really love all your ideas, except for that chat messages about someone's mentality and benefiting a hero with greater stamina, faster running etc. It's just wrong, a guy who likes to be a bandit because that's the way he likes to play will have to force himself to play as hero to get some extra bonuses. 

 

Except for that, I love the ideas, even the NPCs ideas. I know that word NPC sounds like some crazy illegal witch speech for most of the DayZ players, but I can imagine it working amazing. Thinking of NPCs in DayZ puts an image of one game in my head - STALKER. I think that if we ever want to think about NPCs we should do it the way STALKER does it.  I dont think devs will make all of your ideas come true but I hope they'll do at least some of them. Nice job, OP 

Edited December 22, 2013 by Gdaddy22

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Except for that, I love the ideas, even the NPCs ideas. I know that word NPC sounds like some crazy illegal witch speech for most of the DayZ players, but I can imagine it working amazing

 

Of course you can "imagine" it, because literally every other game in the industry does it.

 

No thanks.

[Sickerthansars 53]

[Vitols 3]

just wait till the zombie numbers are at or near the correct levels. You will need a group to go to cherno as im sure i read a statement from rocket saying that cherno alone call spawn up to 800 zeds.

 

I agree, more zombies=less banditism.

And i somehow love that feeling when i have to defend myself or try to escape, it's so much fun. And that feeling when you kill the guy who attacked you...

Edited December 23, 2013 by Vitols

[aj_ (DayZ) 18]

I don't think more and nastier zombies equates to less banditry. In fact, I think just the opposite. It will just cause lone bandits to join bandit clans, making them larger and more powerful, and because ammo will be more valuable due to actually having to use it on zeds, killing players for ammo will be highly desirable.

[drew.williams04@yahoo.com 6]

The mod had the hero skin, not sure if it did anything other then make you look different, but if you did enough things to help people, not just the same person over and over of course, would be cool if it made you run slightly faster, or catch your breath faster, reload faster, just little perks etc.

Being a bandit would do things like make your movements louder, and attract zombies easier as well as people.

Or something that would be really harsh but effective is to limit what weapons you can use based on your status, Hero skins could use the best weapons and accessories from military bases etc. while bandits could only use the weapons found in regular towns and cities or something.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Stinkfist

[Sooden 301]

"One of the last kinds of serial killers is the Gain Serial Killer. A gain killer is one who kills to gain money or items they believe to be valuable." Ref: http://www.bxscience.edu/publications/forensics/articles/psychologicalprofiles/killer.pdf

Above also shows they may have high IQ but cant relate to others well, so as stated before, if there is a skill system then they may have problems learning from others or books.

 

I real dont think giving super powers to heroes will effect anything and as said, there will always be KOS, but the killer should be properly represented in the game via psychological effects. This would help balance out the survivor bandit problem. Atm the bandit has a grater advantage as their actions have no effect.

 

No! i'm not saying people that Kill lots of people in a game have a real life problem, but as a simulation they should in the game. Its just another effect of the situation and not a punishment for KOSing and would probably only really effect people that kill and kill. As it is now, everyone is killing each other cus they have too, out of fear mostly. Don't know how psychology will effect the game play but i think its an important function the game needs.

 

Its easy to pull the trigger in a game