How can we make a players life more important than his gear?

[orrzxz 7]

There should be skills

They are learned through theory and practice. Each level of increase provides benefits be it big or small. Hoever its not like banadage 10x to gain level.

Rather its like:

Skill: Medicine

Level1

To unlock:

-inspect 2 dead human players

-bandage someone or yourself once (35% chance of fail)

-Inspect 5 different medical items

Benefits:

-bandaging is 10% faster

-25% less failure rate

Level 2

- Discover 2 different antibiotics

-Read: Medicine and you (a book only found in hospitals)

-Inspect 1 more dead player

-Exam 2 different water sources

Benefits:

You learn what antibiotics are for what

You have a 40% of determining how safe a water source is by examining it

and so on and so on

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO.

Its a zombie apocalypse simulator. Not skyrim with guns.

[Betweenaduck 10]

You will just shoot them right away; it's a win-win. You get to keep your character, your gear, AND you get new free gear!

 

No you don't. Stuff in backpacks gets ruined as well as clothes and equipment if you shoot somebody. So if you want to get stuff from a dude in pristine condition you have to act smart and take your chances anyways. It have to be difficult to survive especially alone so people tried to cooperate more often and not see a potential threat in each other 100% of the time imho.

Sometimes yes you either avoid contact or you assess the situation and take sertain risk to interact with someone wether its combat or negotioations. But not shoot just to be sure all the time.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Betweenaduck

[Wo3dy 111]

So what about our female players? Be careful with your replies... 

how about the females get hairy legs?  :rolleyes:

[dnk 18]

This is basically impossible with carrots.

 

As has been said, the whole idea of making a player's life more interesting to the player will do nada to reduce KOS in the game. KOS types just don't care - hell, the more valuable your avatar is to you, probably the more many of them (the troll ones) get off on killing you. For the paranoid KOS types, making their own character more valuable means they've all the more incentive to kill first and ask questions later.

 

Ultimately, there's not much you can do other than to play on private hives with more cooperative/mature players. You can reduce paranoia (and its related KOSings) with better modes of communication and more obvious means of judging humanity/intent, but only so much.

 

KOS has always been an issue, and will always be an issue. It's a cultural issue here more than a mechanics issue. Good luck fixing those.

[MCRoadkill 7]

Well the TS (TopicStarter) has a point.

When I was killed on the southwest airfield and spawned at the coast and went for a drink near a pond someone found me and wanted to handcuff and loot me.

I said to him I just respawned and really have nothing apart from my flashlight.

 

So your idea gives me an idea, why not cary anything but an axe against zombies.

Wear a stupid hat and some dark clothes, maybe not even a backpack and only have a tin openen in your pocket, a bottle of water, a map and a compass....because basicly thats the only thing you really do need.

 

That way on the outside you like you don't have anything worth looting. Because if you're running along in full helmet, gasmask, tac vest and 35 slot backpack you might have something useful.

 

Or hang around the beach and recruit respawns because a respawn doesn't have weapons and if you don't have weapons you can't attack someone (that does big dmg).

Then earn their thrust by helping them and so them helping you (hopefully) and form you posse of 'friendly' ppl

Edited December 24, 2013 by MCRoadkill

[the-kuutti 18]

No you don't. Stuff in backpacks gets ruined as well as clothes and equipment if you shoot somebody. So if you want to get stuff from a dude in pristine condition you have to act smart and take your chances anyways. It have to be difficult to survive especially alone so people tried to cooperate more often and not see a potential threat in each other 100% of the time imho.

Sometimes yes you either avoid contact or you assess the situation and take sertain risk to interact with someone wether its combat or negotioations. But not shoot just to be sure all the time.

 

Just had my first experience killing other survivors in this standalone (first 30 hours I did not engage against survivors). In the MOD it was only beneficial to kill people and get their gear. Now, after 5 kills, I've not been able to gather anything proper condition gear form those 5 corpses except the gun they had in hand, which seems to be the only thing that does not get ruined when you shoot someone. I like this a lot but I'm not sure if the condition system is working as intended atm. I hear people using ruined stuff like they were in working condition. One thing that I noticed is that ruined pistol mag wouldn't go in to a pistol, so it is working in some area. My question is, is the condition system working fully or not? I guess when it will, it might lower the KOS slowly in time as the possible gear is lost.

 

I'll continue this a little. Of course when you are fully geared there is nothing you need from other survivors and you can KOS as you feel (+as long as you stay alive). Currently the only gear (besides the gun) that stays in pristine condition is ammo, when you empty those ruined mags you get pristine ammo that can be used and you only need 1 or 2 pristine mags which you can fill when needed. For example I had one 30 round mag yesterday which I got from my mate, killed 3 armed survivor with that mag and I gathered 200 pristine 5.56 ammo from those ruined mags.

Edited December 24, 2013 by the-kuutti

[combatcomm1 234]

One word.......STATS! Longest time survived VS Time survived with this character. Introduce leaderboards. It only registers TIME IN GAME! Not time youve had the character. People love leaderboards and being on top. I know some people think its gamey but I would think twice about KoS and possibly dieing if I might lose my beard and my best surival time. KoS will never go away but its the things that make people think twice that will help simulate real world empathy. People wouldent kill like this is real life. It is because it is a game and consequences are not like in real life that people kill like they do. No justice, no fear of prison or real death. So we have to simulate it some how. This is where I am ok with the game getting "gamey". 

[MCRoadkill 7]

One word.......STATS! Longest time survived VS Time survived with this character. Introduce leaderboards. It only registers TIME IN GAME! Not time youve had the character. People love leaderboards and being on top. I know some people think its gamey but I would think twice about KoS and possibly dieing if I might lose my beard and my best surival time. KoS will never go away but its the things that make people think twice that will help simulate real world empathy. People wouldent kill like this is real life. It is because it is a game and consequences are not like in real life that people kill like they do. No justice, no fear of prison or real death. So we have to simulate it some how. This is where I am ok with the game getting "gamey". 

 

Not completly true, you could concider this a mini-society world test case. When in the real world something similar would happen (apart from the Z's), people would do the same thing.

Look at all the series, movies and in third world countries, people do it because people can eventhough it's not right.

If you give people an opertunaty they will take it. It's all we humans ever done since we are around is kill each other (for what they want or just for LOLs).

It's easier to be an asshole than to be a good guy....

 

But yeah, stats and or karma could work level things out, make people think twice before you act.

Maybe a bit like in an adventure game where you carefully pick your lines :P

Edited December 24, 2013 by MCRoadkill

[svenbreakfast 231]

If you get DayZ you will realize that having something to lose is the hump when the game moves from unadulterated fun into a paranoid mind fuck. The only thing better than getting all you think you need and finding yourself wondering if certain risks are worth it is the release of being on the beach with nothing to lose. I think after a few epic runs most experienced players realize this. Thinking anything is "your" gear is the first step towards missing the point of this exercise imo. 

[MCRoadkill 7]

Yeah, like I said, in true basics you don't need a lot of stuff.

PPL tend to over hord/hamsters stuff.

Edited December 24, 2013 by MCRoadkill

[deadmoose 0]

also remember a bandit will take even more joy killing someone with a big beard knowing how much it just pis*ed you off

Edited December 24, 2013 by Deadmoose

[aseliot 23]

I also keep thinking about ideas where you would give the player more charachter cusotomization options to have a trait like being athletic or something and then also having a negative trait like a minor permanent disease or disability or something but seriously the thing that should prevent KOS from people in the future should be the sound of your weapon attracting a number of zombies and possibly other survivors. That was how I believe they intended it to work in the first place.

[muggerfugger (DayZ) 35]

You can't.

 

As the old saying goes:

 

A man without his gear, is no man at all.

[muggerfugger (DayZ) 35]

Gear pretty much represents all your hard work. All the time you spent in the game.

[Coleman (DayZ) 14]

I want a badass Tier 1 MoH style beard!

[Betweenaduck 10]

 My question is, is the condition system working fully or not? I guess when it will, it might lower the KOS slowly in time as the possible gear is lost.

 

I can't answer this question circumstantially but I'm tracking situation with damaged items as I play the game. Rocket said once that the system, when it become fully working, will consider which part of the character's body you shoot and calculate damage dealt to the items he's carrying. Unfortunately I can't provide you with link where he said that, I guess it was in one of the dev blogs. I assume that game mechanics like this are directly aimed for reducing amount of KOS situations in the game. I think that KOS always will be in the game, actually it should be. Otherwise we lose one of the parts of what makes DayZ so thrilling and unpredictable. But KOS have to be reduced imo by subtle smart mechanics just to make the game more challenging and complex in a proper way.

[hoschelhoff 15]

A beard, and hair in general. Go shirtless and show off your manly chesthair!

Anything else like skill/levels: NOPE!

[IcyBlade 48]

I mentioned an idea on another thread, it wouldn't make a huge change, but it would make some progress and it wouldn't mess with the feel and scope of the game.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/157782-suggestion-death-event/

[Gdaddy22 299]

 

There should be skills

 

They are learned through theory and practice. Each level of increase provides benefits be it big or small. Hoever its not like banadage 10x to gain level.

 

Rather its like:

 

Skill: Medicine

 

Level1 

To unlock:

-inspect 2 dead human players

-bandage someone or yourself once (35% chance of fail)

-Inspect 5 different medical items 

 

Benefits:

-bandaging is 10% faster

-25% less failure rate

 

Level 2

- Discover 2 different antibiotics

-Read: Medicine and you (a book only found in hospitals)

-Inspect 1 more dead player 

-Exam 2 different water sources

 

Benefits:

You learn what antibiotics are for what

You have a 40% of determining how safe a water source is by examining it 

 

and so on and so on 

 

 

It's a must-have for me

[Inanity (DayZ) 3]

Just to clarify the topic as I understand it:

The goal is to create something that will encourage players who are held up to choose a route that will leave them alive but possibly gearless, rather than shot by the holding bandit.

 

There are two things you're left with if said bandit makes off with all your gear.

1) Your character.

2) Wherever your character is.

 

Stats could work to a degree (if nothing else they won't worsen the problem.)

I think some level of passive skill increases could be meaningful if it were applied to the planned base-building portion of the game. And even otherwise as well, so long as it doesn't directly affect combat.

 

Those solutions work to make 1) more valuable, and someone's already suggested that 2) is already pseudo-implemented because it's a pain to run north/find friends and it just saves time.

 

But we could try another route. We could make it more interesting to start out. Honestly, in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, I probably wouldn't gain consciousness near a city/town/village/industrial center, because those places would have been wiped out. What if we created a "newb zone" for fresh spawns that's separate from the bigger world but that you have to get through to reach the main map. (Storming the beach in Saving Private Ryan, anyone? It shouldn't have any chance of killing you. But after going through it a couple times it should give you the same sense of irritated foreboding.)

 

I don't think it should give you any gear aside from the usual spawn-gear, but I do think it should take maybe 5-10 minutes and then, when you get through it, you spawn randomly in one of the already existing spawn locations. It could just be me, but I'd be a lot more incentivized to avoid getting shot if I knew that my death would force me to go through a bit of drudgery to really respawn, and that my being alive places me in the only place where I can start gearing up again.

 

 

 

Also, to address another issue that has cropped up in this post, I really, really, don't like the idea of required bandit/hero skins like they had in the mod xD

It's not just the difficulty in making sure that such a system works as intended (i.e., if I'm definitely being shot at, but my opponent has terrible aim and so I get the kill/all the shots, the system registers me as a bandit), but also because I feel like the skins take away a certain atmosphere to the game.

 

I really enjoy the tension in meeting a new players and knowing absolutely nothing about how this guy will react to me. It's thrilling, and if we part ways amicably I feel like I've accomplished something because I was forced to trust someone that would have profited from killing me, but that we somehow both decided not to start shooting/swinging.

[frosti 2165]

 

How can we make a players life more important than his gear?

 

It's simple only one way to do it: Skill system.

 

For exemple, the longer you live, the better and expirenced you are at shooting, meaning better accuracy with m4 etc.

In future maybe you are better at getting more meat from rabbits, can live longer without needing to drink/eat by getting toughter over time etc.

[shawnofthedead 8]

Knowing your blood type is one reason to not die. Blood test kits aren't extremely common.

this here is a good point

[Gdaddy22 299]

It's simple only one way to do it: Skill system.

 

For exemple, the longer you live, the better and expirenced you are at shooting, meaning better accuracy with m4 etc.

In future maybe you are better at getting more meat from rabbits, can live longer without needing to drink/eat by getting toughter over time etc.

 

I always say this is a good idea but most people say it's a realistic game and your shooting skills should only depend on your actual skills with keyboard and mouse, not in-game bonuses. IMO it's a perfect idea for adding value to player's life

[Lorax 99]

I would like hardcore servers to delete tents once people die, and prevent you from being able to loot your body.  I believe this would make for a great experience.  I want the life to be a life. That would really make encounters that much more stressful.  I doubt anyone would agree to this though.

 

I also vote yes for acquired skills that would be lost at death. I don't want the skills to be over powered, but make it worth your while to keep.  Also I like the idea of a teams benefiting from different players with varied skills.

 

Also skills shouldn't be based on time of life, but what you do. 

Edited December 24, 2013 by Lorax

[dayzhopeful 30]

The thing that makes the most tense moments in this game is the what you are trying to change. I dont want to lost all my good stuff so i will do anything to survive.