So..did the Americans...(equipment query)

[toddmh 2]

fly C-5A cargo aircraft during Russia's ZA and dump all the surplus Iraq and Afghanistan M4's out the back ?? Seems to be a shit load of them in this part of Russia..

[Katana67 2907]

Chernarus, a fictional country. Gives creative license.

 

Zombie apocalypse, a fictional occurance. Also gives creative license.

 

USMC, the western intervention force which was present in the canon of Chernarus in ARMA II. Uses AR-15's.

 

Takistan, neighboring country to Chernarus also was the subject of a western intervention.

 

Chernarus, based on the Czech Republic. The military of which uses a variety of Russian/Soviet and NATO/Western weapons.

 

Assault rifles, not god's gift to man.

 

Point being, by virtue of it being fiction alone the presence of NATO/Western weaponry is plausible. Nevermind that, in said fiction, the presence of these weapons is explained. Furthermore, you cannot purely apply real-world circumstance to dictate what is "right" in the game.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Katana67

[-Gews- 7443]

I'll post the obligatory "ALPHER".

 

 

Hopefully once they add more guns, they redo the spawns and make the M4 the top-of-the-line rare item. People should lust after them like SVD Camos or L85A2 AWSs.

[-Gews- 7443]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:44 PM, Katana67 said:

USMC, the western intervention force which was present in the canon of Chernarus in ARMA II.

USMC doesn't use Magpul stocks and fore-ends. Not to mention 10, 20, or 40 round magazines.

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:44 PM, Katana67 said:

Takistan, neighboring country to Chernarus also was the subject of a western intervention.

Takistan isn't near Chernarus and you don't see many Afghanis or Iraqis using captured M4s.

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:44 PM, Katana67 said:

Chernarus, based on the Czech Republic. The military of which uses a variety of Russian/Soviet and NATO/Western weapons.

They have a long tradition of issuing their own Czech rifles.

[mintypie007 57]

They should have focused on the ak variants first. I bet rocket is a AR mall ninja. Lol. Rocket can you confirm?

Edited December 19, 2013 by mintypie007

[mintypie007 57]

There are magpul mags? Confirmed rocket being a AR mall ninja.

[Katana67 2907]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:48 PM, Gews said:

USMC doesn't use Magpul stocks and fore-ends. Not to mention 10, 20, or 40 round magazines.

 

Takistan isn't near Chernarus and you don't see many Afghanis or Iraqis using captured M4s

They have a long tradition of issuing their own Czech rifles.

 

So, the point was that it's plausible. By being fiction alone, it is plausible. Using pure real-world circumstance doesn't help. Not to mention the possible circumstances applied in said fiction. Who's to say that NATO didn't play a role in the outbreak?

 

 

That and Marines have used Magpul items before, much of it being (or previous to the dispute over PMAGs) up to the individual Marine and/or unit commander. Anything goes with MARSOC or FORECON as well.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Katana67

[rossums 2190]

There are so many M4s because there are next to no other weapons on the loot table.

That is the entire reason for them being so common.

And why M4 you ask?

It's because it's the main weapon they decided to base all the other weapons upon because it is the most flexible in terms of having multiple possible attachments.

[pxxl 259]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:50 PM, mintypie007 said:

They should have focused on the ak variants first. I bet rocket is a AR mall ninja. Lol. Rocket can you confirm?

They had the AK in there initially(although it was placeholder). I think they went with the M4 because it has the most possible variations. Once that works they can dial down from there. 

[mintypie007 57]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:55 PM, Rossums said:

There are so many M4s because there are next to no other weapons on the loot table.

That is the entire reason for them being so common.

And why M4 you ask?

It's because it's the main weapon they decided to base all the other weapons upon because it is the most flexible in terms of having multiple possible attachments.

You don't know much about guns do you? AK variants have the same abilities for attachments as ARs do.

[Katana67 2907]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:58 PM, mintypie007 said:

You don't know much about guns do you? AK variants have the same abilities for attachments as ARs do.

 

Debatable. Most AK rail systems are confined to the handguard, the one's that aren't hop over the irons. Similarly, the irons are built-in rather than being detachable on the M4A1.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

[mintypie007 57]

  On 12/19/2013 at 4:00 PM, Katana67 said:

Debatable. Most AK rail systems are confined to the handguard, the one's that aren't hop over the irons. Similarly, the irons are built-in rather than being detachable on the M4A1.

Very true. I want to see some rails on my mosin!

[rossums 2190]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:58 PM, mintypie007 said:

You don't know much about guns do you? AK variants have the same abilities for attachments as ARs do.

I didn't say they didn't?

The M4 still has more slot-in attachments, most AK attachments require adding additional picatinny rails over the handguard.

The M4 is a lot more simple for just dropping extra attachments straight on rather than having to worry about multiple variants of a single weapon.

What's easier, adding the M4 or worrying about AK47, AK74, AKM - all which have some fundamental differences compared to the single M4.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Rossums

[OrLoK 16191]

Hello there

 

Please keep titles clear and unambiguous.

 

Edited.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[terminal_boy 860]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:58 PM, mintypie007 said:

You don't know much about guns do you? AK variants have the same abilities for attachments as ARs do.

 

The ex-Warsaw Pact ones likely to be floating around a former Soviet Republic aren't the Magpul M4-A-Likes you seen the OMON boys using.

[420jeppe 28]

So what breaks immersion is the western weapons, not the... you know ... zombies beeing unrealistic?

[them18pro 28]

  On 12/19/2013 at 4:03 PM, SausageKingofChicago said:

 

LOVE IT

[-Gews- 7443]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:53 PM, Katana67 said:

So, the point was that it's plausible. By being fiction alone, it is plausible. Using pure real-world circumstance doesn't help. Not to mention the possible circumstances applied in said fiction. Who's to say that NATO didn't play a role in the outbreak?

I disagree... fiction =/= plausible. A lot of the stuff we're finding and wearing isn't at all plausible, it's entirely for gameplay purposes.

 

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:53 PM, Katana67 said:

That and Marines have used Magpul items before, much of it being (or previous to the dispute over PMAGs) up to the individual Marine and/or unit commander. Anything goes with MARSOC or FORECON as well.

They use all sorts of stuff - that doesn't mean you'll see Marines toting their personal M4geries. Using PMAGs isn't quite the same as taking off your issued parts and replacing them. 10 round magazines make little sense.

Special Forces, maybe, random Marines in barracks, no. And special forces aren't really the ticket for fighting a zombie apocalypse.

These items are 100% for gameplay purposes, just like the so-called PayZ masks everyone's wearing.

People would get bored with standard M4s.

Realistic? Yes.

Authentic? Yes.

Fun? ....

Well, not to most players.

People can come up with a variety of backstories varying from decent to the outright wacky, but it doesn't change the fact certain things just. aren't. plausible.

Does that mean they should be removed? Most will say no. But plausible they are not. Don't feel the need to justify every item.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Gews

[Katana67 2907]

  On 12/19/2013 at 4:24 PM, Gews said:

Does that mean they should be removed? Most will say no. But plausible they are not. Don't feel the need to justify every item.

 

You missed the "fiction" qualifier, in my assessment of it being plausible. In the sense that, by virtue of it being fiction (and the developers having creative license), it is plausible to have western weapons in Chernarus. I was demonstrating the futility in applying real-world circumstance to a work of fiction.

 

That and the backstory itself makes it plausible, that's what you're missing in your reliance on real-world circumstance.

 

I don't feel the need to justify every item but when one such as yourself, feels the need to problematize every item, it sort of begs for justification.

 

Regardless, NATO and Soviet-bloc weapons will be included. I'll be having my cake and eating it too enjoying my AR-15's and AK's without a drop of immersion lost.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Katana67

[mintypie007 57]

Plausible but fiction , plentiful western firearms in the eastern bloc.

Not plausible and fiction alien plasma guns.

[King of kong 1117]

  On 12/19/2013 at 3:42 PM, toddmh said:

fly C-5A cargo aircraft during Russia's ZA and dump all the surplus Iraq and Afghanistan M4's out the back ?? Seems to be a shit load of them in this part of Russia..

FOR FUCK SAKE IT'S NOT RUSSIA IT'S CHERNARUS, NOT RUSSIA, NOT CZECH REPUBLIC

[-Gews- 7443]

  On 12/19/2013 at 6:24 PM, Katana67 said:

That and the backstory itself makes it plausible, that's what you're missing in your reliance on real-world circumstance.

 

I still don't get it. The backstory allows for some NATO weapons. The backstory doesn't allow for 10 and 20 round magazines or Magpul forends, those items are only in because they add gameplay value and look cool. Plausible would mean mostly stock weapons with standard magazines and there wouldn't be much of them.

 

Ignore the whole video game thing: if they were a team of analysts working to create a 100% "authentic" scenario based on the current backstory we would not have most of this stuff.

 

DayZ isn't fussy about weapons, their realism or their appropriateness, and DayZ never has been fussy about that, because 95% of DayZ players do. not. care. They're here to play a zombie survival game, not for rivet counting, and if a gun is cool and isn't some overpowered thermal sniper it's all good. This hasn't much changed for the standalone.

 

  On 12/19/2013 at 6:24 PM, Katana67 said:

I don't feel the need to justify every item but when one such as yourself, feels the need to problematize every item, it sort of begs for justification.

 

And likewise, every time someone tries to justify them, I'm going to have to disagree. I never said these items were a problem - they aren't harming people's gameplay. I haven't called for their removal.

 

However when a topic comes up and the subject is whether the unusual amount of tricked out M4 carbines with aftermarket parts is "realistic" or "authentic", I'm going to make my opinion clear...

[boneboys 7988]

Same horse, different jockey...

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/156270-replace-ttsko-jackettrousers/#entry1565798

[Katana67 2907]

  On 12/20/2013 at 4:23 PM, Gews said:

I still don't get it. The backstory allows for some NATO weapons. The backstory doesn't allow for 10 and 20 round magazines or Magpul forends, those items are only in because they add gameplay value and look cool. Plausible would mean mostly stock weapons with standard magazines and there wouldn't be much of them.

 

Ignore the whole video game thing: if they were a team of analysts working to create a 100% "authentic" scenario based on the current backstory we would not have most of this stuff.

 

DayZ isn't fussy about weapons, their realism or their appropriateness, and DayZ never has been fussy about that, because 95% of DayZ players do. not. care. They're here to play a zombie survival game, not for rivet counting, and if a gun is cool and isn't some overpowered thermal sniper it's all good. This hasn't much changed for the standalone.

 

And likewise, every time someone tries to justify them, I'm going to have to disagree. I never said these items were a problem - they aren't harming people's gameplay. I haven't called for their removal.

 

However when a topic comes up and the subject is whether the unusual amount of tricked out M4 carbines with aftermarket parts is "realistic" or "authentic", I'm going to make my opinion clear...

 

Yes, and NATO forces are not unfamiliar with aftermarket weapon attachments/modifications. I'd direct you to the inclusion of FORECON and other SOF as features in ARMA II's Chernarus and Takistan. In-fact, aftermarket weapon modifications are ubiquitous in a modern fighting force. The USMC (which is in the canon of Chernarus) included. They use 30 round PMAGs. Anything else is just hyper-nitpicking. I could explain the inclusion of 10-20 round magazines (i.e. for SPR/SAM-R type weapons), but it doesn't matter. Not to mention the civilian contingency, in that cloned PMAGs are widely available in Europe.

 

The subject was the unusual amount of Western weapons in SA insofar as the setting is concerned. The OP mentions nothing of aftermarket parts. The OP mentions Russia as a qualifier for why it's unreasonable to have NATO weaponry, which Chernarus is not. That is what I was originally taking issue with. You cannot apply "Russia" or "post-Soviet" as qualifiers to dismiss the presence of NATO weaponry in a work of fiction. Never mind how plausible it is in the fiction itself.

 

I never discouraged you from making your opinion clear. However, I will justify whatever I feel has been problematized unnecessarily.

 

And again, I never said anything was "realistic" or "authentic". I was saying, again, that by virtue of it being fiction it does not matter. They (the developers) get to dictate what is plausible, and that plausibility is demonstrated in the canon of Chernarus.

 

PERSONAL OPINION - I feel that Russian weapons (and the "Eastern Europe" settings) are by far over-represented in recent survival-apocalypse video games. I have no idea why people fetishize them so much. I like AK's, SKS's, and Mosin's too, but I don't want them to be the only things represented in this game or even in the majority. I want even distribution of weapons and variety, which can be explained adequately in the fictional canon.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Katana67