December Round-up: ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE SA

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

 

DayZ Mod ends? this I heard in Steam.

 

Then, will begin DayZ SA?

 

 

The mod is actually back up on steam now!

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I'd submit that it enhances the attachment to your character, in that one cannot freely just upload/download their character into a different world at will.

 

This is the part of your argument that I don't fully get. How does it enhance the attachment to your character? If anything it just avoids immersion breaking flaws. I would even go as far as saying I feel less attached to a character that is bound to only one server. But that's a biased point of view since I mainly play on the hive.

[Katana67 2907]

This is the part of your argument that I don't fully get. How does it enhance the attachment to your character? If anything it just avoids immersion breaking flaws. I would even go as far as saying I feel less attached to a character that is bound to only one server. But that's a biased point of view since I mainly play on the hive.

 

You, as a player become more invested in the world (your particular server, in which the layout of Chernarus is ostensibly unique in terms of loot displacement, player concentrations, player community, etc.) and therefore you become more attached to your character living in that world.

 

I'll submit it in the form of an anecdote. I log out next to a tent, that tent is limited to the server. I change servers and log back in, the tent isn't there. How is that immersive? The particulars in continuity are what bothers me with being able to switch servers with the same character. It's a case of playing in the same world versus playing with the same character.

 

I think any discussion of "character" might be a bit academic, as ultimately we're just playing in models which have no motives outside of the individudal player. There is no character really, just the player which is what I think is what separated DayZ apart and made it so immersive. You are the character, you, John Q. DayZ Player. Not Zombie Survivor 1. Which could lend credence to the argument of "you" being able to log into whatever server you want. But it's not that simple, and thus I think any discussion of "character attachment" has to include a discussion of what constitutes a character.

 

I think you can have that immersion always, having a server-fixed character doesn't affect immersion or attachment for me.

 

I think the question of immersion is a double sided coin. On one hand you have people who value their characters in being able to flexibly exist in a variety of servers, thus adding a bit of continuity. On the other hand you have players who value that same immersion, but in a different way. That immersion is broken by things such as being able to transcend the particular server (i.e. removing your character from one instance or world and artificially transporting them to the next).

 

What really bothers me, in relation to my "character" or at least my own investment in that particular life, is the possibility of someone server hopping to take all that away from me without legitimate cause. That's what gets me, just the uncertainty that someone could've manipulated the system to kill me and/or my character. That's the crux of the issue for me, along with loot discrepancies.

 

Personally, I think the compromises listed in the prior discussion are the way to go now rather than having an either/or. If we're going to have a mix of fixed-server resources and cross-server characters, swapping servers cannot remain consequence-less. If I had my way, I'd make the characters fixed to the server (to fall in line with server-specific resource systems such as construction, loot, and storage). But with the compromises, I feel that the negative effects of a trans-server character are mitigated nicely.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Katana67

[PerfectTemplar 10]

I am just frustrated, I really want to play DayZ and would be willing to pay $30 for the alpha. I know more people would pay even more but yeah that is my price and I think it's so much better than Rust even just the mod tbh :L

[esnoubro 10]

I'm.. I'm in your sig

oh! scary!

[Sloddor 167]

I didnt want to compare Rust with DayZ. Really, these Games are totally different. You cant even compare their developement. Rust uses Unity, they dont have to fight with the Arma Enginge. I dont even believe the Unity engine would be suitable for DayZ. And Btw. I play the Alpha of Rust for months now, and it wasnt as stable is it is now. I just say i like the community communication from rust. Rocket has been under massive pressure, due to the WarZ thing..... so hes super nervous about the alpha, everything needs a certain state of quality. thats why they dont let us play. And thats fully understandable and a good strategy.

 

 

P.S. Rust is really fun. It gets released today on steam. So if you got money left, its definitley worth a buy.

I recommend to watch the Trailer and watch some streams before you buy.

Im using Rust to bridge the time for DayZ Alpha =) (again, please dont compare these 2  games, Rust is no threat for DayZ SA)

 

Btw. the Developer of Rust is Gary from the famous Garys mod.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Sloddor

[Sensemann 145]

1.    You, as a player become more invested in the world (your particular server, in which the layout of Chernarus is ostensibly unique in terms of loot displacement, player concentrations, player community, etc.) and therefore you become more attached to your character living in that world.

 

I'll submit it in the form of an anecdote. I log out next to a tent, that tent is limited to the server. I change servers and log back in, the tent isn't there. How is that immersive? The particulars in continuity are what bothers me with being able to switch servers with the same character. It's a case of playing in the same world versus playing with the same character.

 

2.   I think any discussion of "character" might be a bit academic, as ultimately we're just playing in models which have no motives outside of the individudal player. There is no character really, just the player which is what I think is what separated DayZ apart and made it so immersive. You are the character, you, John Q. DayZ Player. Not Zombie Survivor 1. Which could lend credence to the argument of "you" being able to log into whatever server you want. But it's not that simple, and thus I think any discussion of "character attachment" has to include a discussion of what constitutes a character.

 

I think you can have that immersion always, having a server-fixed character doesn't affect immersion or attachment for me.

 

I think the question of immersion is a double sided coin. On one hand you have people who value their characters in being able to flexibly exist in a variety of servers, thus adding a bit of continuity. On the other hand you have players who value that same immersion, but in a different way. That immersion is broken by things such as being able to transcend the particular server (i.e. removing your character from one instance or world and artificially transporting them to the next).

 

3.   What really bothers me, in relation to my "character" or at least my own investment in that particular life, is the possibility of someone server hopping to take all that away from me without legitimate cause. That's what gets me, just the uncertainty that someone could've manipulated the system to kill me and/or my character. That's the crux of the issue for me, along with loot discrepancies.

 

Regarding 

 

1. The world you are playing in remains the same no matter the server with the exception of your vehicles and tents that you chose to place. The environment (cities, mountains etc.) stays the same. The pool of other survivors changes but that just adds to the feeling of "I have no idea what's going on in a zombie apocalypse.

I would hardly call that problematic. In fact, you have access to a greater pool of potential stories through the access to 100s of thousands of other players. Write that story with YOUR character.

 

2. If I have a tent in the woods and switch to a server where the tent is not transfered, then so be it. The tent is still there on the server I had it placed. I chose to switch servers because I couldn't find whatever I searched for on the server I placed the tent. AND, I can return to my tent whenever I want by switching back to the server.

Having multiple characters alive is far more immersion breaking to me. I want to play as "Sensemann". I am alive, I am unique. If I get killed, I restart and be "Sensemann" again. 

I simply don't want to have "Sensemann 1" with tent and car alive on server #1 and because the server is full, have to start with "Sensemann 2" on server #9. While connecting, I figure that I have had "Sensemann 29" still alive there and I am far off what I wanted to initially do with "Sensemann 1". I hope that's confusing enough now and brings across my reasons of why my character is far more important to me than a tent that I use once in a while and it not appearing on all servers with me.

 

3. How many times have you been a victim of someone server hopping? I know it's hard to judge, but to me, in approx. 800 hours of DayZ playtime, I am positive that it has happened to me maybe 3 times (2 times with 100% confirmation). I am not willing to give up a basic game mechanic that 100% affects each time I play for reducing the exploits of 1% that, I am sure, will find another way to beat the system with whatever else exploits they can figure. That's the sadness of online gaming.

 

Anyways, nice discussion with you. Keep it real.

[Ham_Sandwich27 108]

I am just frustrated, I really want to play DayZ and would be willing to pay $30 for the alpha. I know more people would pay even more but yeah that is my price and I think it's so much better than Rust even just the mod tbh :L

 

I'm with you. I've been off the mod for 2 or 3 weeks now ever since I got erroneously banned form my favourite epoch server for....... flying a mozzie too fast (yeah, you heard that right). 150k in the bank, 3 lock-boxes full of rare weapons, gold bars and loot. All gone. So I gave up altogether thinking the SA was imminent. Now I'm dying to get back into it.

[SomebodyEpic 87]

...I disagree.

I fucking disagree.*

[Mazzar 231]

I dont even believe the Unity engine would be suitable for DayZ.

 

Ehhh what makes you say that? I personally am currently using unity and its honestly the future of game development. Their involvement in the community can be seen as similar as steam, yet an even better ethic. Now i havent tried to use unity with multiplayer, so who knows, but still... There are far better engines to use than ARMA...which is barely an engine.

 

Also 1 character 1 server = Increased immersion, but might not work in practice due to some servers failing, dick admins and other things.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

You, as a player become more invested in the world (your particular server, in which the layout of Chernarus is ostensibly unique in terms of loot displacement, player concentrations, player community, etc.) and therefore you become more attached to your character living in that world.

 

I'll submit it in the form of an anecdote. I log out next to a tent, that tent is limited to the server. I change servers and log back in, the tent isn't there. How is that immersive? The particulars in continuity are what bothers me with being able to switch servers with the same character. It's a case of playing in the same world versus playing with the same character.

 

I think any discussion of "character" might be a bit academic, as ultimately we're just playing in models which have no motives outside of the individudal player. There is no character really, just the player which is what I think is what separated DayZ apart and made it so immersive. You are the character, you, John Q. DayZ Player. Not Zombie Survivor 1. Which could lend credence to the argument of "you" being able to log into whatever server you want. But it's not that simple, and thus I think any discussion of "character attachment" has to include a discussion of what constitutes a character.

 

I think you can have that immersion always, having a server-fixed character doesn't affect immersion or attachment for me.

 

I think the question of immersion is a double sided coin. On one hand you have people who value their characters in being able to flexibly exist in a variety of servers, thus adding a bit of continuity. On the other hand you have players who value that same immersion, but in a different way. That immersion is broken by things such as being able to transcend the particular server (i.e. removing your character from one instance or world and artificially transporting them to the next).

 

What really bothers me, in relation to my "character" or at least my own investment in that particular life, is the possibility of someone server hopping to take all that away from me without legitimate cause. That's what gets me, just the uncertainty that someone could've manipulated the system to kill me and/or my character. That's the crux of the issue for me, along with loot discrepancies.

 

Personally, I think the compromises listed in the prior discussion are the way to go now rather than having an either/or. If we're going to have a mix of fixed-server resources and cross-server characters, swapping servers cannot remain consequence-less. If I had my way, I'd make the characters fixed to the server (to fall in line with server-specific resource systems such as construction, loot, and storage). But with the compromises, I feel that the negative effects of a trans-server character are mitigated nicely.

 

I don't think my immersion has much bearing on how connected to my character I feel. We already pop in and out of existence, we fight zombies and can instantly embody another being soon after death. Weather or not my tent exists in this alternate universe is not really a big deal to me. Especially when we're talking about how connected I feel to my character. I will always feel connected to my character because they are exactly that, my character.

 

The thing I hate about what bothers you about this. Is that it all boils down to uncertainty. You might have been killed by someone who server hopped to get good gear. You might have been robbed of your hard work by someone who isn't playing the game as much as they are out to ruin peoples fun by exploiting the glitches in the game. Maybe, or maybe not. Maybe someone logged back on at the right time to catch you unaware. Maybe they geared up in an empty server before realizing it emptied out. Maybe they just played normally and it only appeared to you that they were abusing the system.

 

I watched that same uncertainty ruin the game for a lot of people back when hacking got popular. People would always just assume it was hacks. It got to the point where they couldn't enjoy being killed legitimately because of the uncertainty that it might be someone with a script. I always tried to remain focused on my own game. If I was killed by legit bandits or a hacker, I was killed, nothing changes for me.

 

 

That said, I still think there are plenty of problems with the hive and I'd love to see there be more steps to switching servers. Especially if those solutions increased immersion. Something that comes to mind is my suggestion about sleeping. I suggested that you have to sleep prior to logoff. If we worked that into moving your character from server to server we could setup a system where a player has to setup a campsite before log off and then remain offline for over an hour, before they could join another server and be put where the campsite was. Otherwise, the player gets returned to the coast if they join another server. Maybe even working in moving your tent from server to server.

[twinturbonet (DayZ) 294]

I fucking disagree.*

 

Of course you would fucking disagree, you're coming straight out of Compton! 

[Katana67 2907]

That said, I still think there are plenty of problems with the hive and I'd love to see there be more steps to switching servers. Especially if those solutions increased immersion. Something that comes to mind is my suggestion about sleeping. I suggested that you have to sleep prior to logoff. If we worked that into moving your character from server to server we could setup a system where a player has to setup a campsite before log off and then remain offline for over an hour, before they could join another server and be put where the campsite was. Otherwise, the player gets returned to the coast if they join another server. Maybe even working in moving your tent from server to server.

 

That uncertainty is really paramount to me. It affects so many things in the mod. Like "are those zombies spawned around me? or someone else?". It's not about your own individual awareness of the environment, it's about how well you can play the system. That's what breaks it for me, playing the system rather than the game. The same applies to people who remove ATOC, up their gamma at night, abuse side-chat, and talk to their friends on the other side of the map on TS. There are so many (poorly implemented/non-applicable) variables that it becomes impossible to ever have a "pure" experience in-game. This short-changes everything in my opinion, including the much vaunted "player interaction" that folks tout as the whole purpose of DayZ.

 

I've heard Rocket talk about the "meta-game" of DayZ before, and I've never really heard a good argument (outside of the "convenience" argument) as to why we should allow for some of this stuff.

 

I'm not sure I'd ever support tents being able to be moved across servers just on principle. If they're going to store a lot of items, they have to be fixed. Otherwise they're just glorified backpacks (and even then, having two packs is a bit much). As for sleeping, it just sounds like an in-game log-out timer to me. I'm not particularly fond of it, but I think your suggestion is a step in the right direction. It's not, for me, about having to sacrifice time/energy in order to switch servers. But making that decision to switch servers have consequences once you make it. The detriment (which happens on both ends) is aimed squarely at the server to which you switch, rather than the one you just left.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Katana67

[colekern 1364]

Yup, Rust seems to have more completed in half the time by half the devs and they actually allow people to play the alpha even though it's super unfinished.

 

Yes, because they totally didn't spend a few years or at least months custom-making an engine from scratch specifically for the game before they released an alpha/

[colekern 1364]

Ehhh what makes you say that? I personally am currently using unity and its honestly the future of game development. Their involvement in the community can be seen as similar as steam, yet an even better ethic. Now i havent tried to use unity with multiplayer, so who knows, but still... There are far better engines to use than ARMA...which is barely an engine.

 

Also 1 character 1 server = Increased immersion, but might not work in practice due to some servers failing, dick admins and other things.

 

Barely an engine? I will say that it isn't exactly optimized, but it can do some amazing things that just aren't possible in other game engines. Specifically, massive open worlds with fully dynamic AI, multiplayer, and enterable buldings that aren't in a seperate instance.

[Owain1122 218]

The only gripe I've got and I don't whether this is due to the engine or perhaps performance, but animations in Arma 2 and the SA look (and in arma 2 feel) clunky. There's a lack of what I'd call 'finish' to the animations.

I don't think it will ever change. However in regards to the new skeleton, the new running animation looks much better!

[PerfectTemplar 10]

Rocket hasn't said anything about the game for more than a couple day now after he left us hanging about the release date confirmation of "soon"

[Katana67 2907]

Rocket hasn't said anything about the game for more than a couple day now after he left us hanging about the release date confirmation of "soon"

 

Oh lawdy, what ever will we do?

[Mazzar 231]

Barely an engine? I will say that it isn't exactly optimized, but it can do some amazing things that just aren't possible in other game engines. Specifically, massive open worlds with fully dynamic AI, multiplayer, and enterable buldings that aren't in a seperate instance.

 

As compared to unity? More or less, you're describing a network bubble and procedural loading...Thats pretty standard stuff for any game studio on any engine.

[PerfectTemplar 10]

Oh lawdy, what ever will we do?

Uhh, idk why you kind of people have no idea why this is a problem. For a game that is going to be released for a price having no PR is a huge issue, look at The War Z/Infestation:Survivor Stories. No PR and it failed, promising the game and giving no information over and over again is a problem. Then when you cannot fulfill your promises you go radio silent? That is another problem, I am afraid it will diminish the success of the game without some communication with the community about what is happening.

[Sloddor 167]

Ehhh what makes you say that? I personally am currently using unity and its honestly the future of game development. Their involvement in the community can be seen as similar as steam, yet an even better ethic. Now i havent tried to use unity with multiplayer, so who knows, but still... There are far better engines to use than ARMA...which is barely an engine.

 

 

I have no developing experience. Thats just what i think. Never seen a game on the unity engine that has that much draw distance and detail at the same time.

[PerfectTemplar 10]

I have no developing experience. Thats just what i think. Never seen a game on the unity engine that has that much draw distance and detail at the same time.

CoD:Ghosts still uses the Quake Engine. I think unity is a lot better than the Quake Engine and therefore can in fact be greatly improved upon.

[Katana67 2907]

Uhh, idk why you kind of people have no idea why this is a problem. For a game that is going to be released for a price having no PR is a huge issue, look at The War Z/Infestation:Survivor Stories. No PR and it failed, promising the game and giving no information over and over again is a problem. Then when you cannot fulfill your promises you go radio silent? That is another problem, I am afraid it will diminish the success of the game without some communication with the community about what is happening.

 

I guess the year of constant updates, videos, devblogs, twitter posts, and reddit posts doesn't count as engaging with your community and keeping everyone updated. Nope, not at all. Especially when you go silent for the lengthy period of a day or so. /sarcasm

 

I care about the game, not the PR.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Katana67

[PerfectTemplar 10]

I guess the year of constant updates, videos, devblogs, twitter posts, and reddit posts doesn't count as engaging with your community and keeping everyone updated. Nope, not at all. Especially when you go silent for the lengthy period of a day or so. /sarcasm

 

I care about the game, not the PR.

Constant? Yeah hardly, they have been very brief and offer absolutely no insight into how soon the game is ready for an alpha release. Remember it was supposed to be 18 months ago.

[Katana67 2907]

...they have been very brief and offer absolutely no insight into how soon the game is ready for an alpha release...

 

Dean "Rocket" Hall, 12/09/13 "You can never be too sure what bugs are behind the ones you fix, that's why I am being so coy. take a look at the stream though you can see several big problems".

 

http://i.imgur.com/baMDKzm.png

 

That's why Rocket isn't talking, because DayZ has never been contingent upon something as insipid as nebulous "release dates". The release is contingent upon meeting milestones and accomplishing objectives. These milestones and objectives are fluid, thus requiring an adaptive development that cannot be beholden to a finite release date.

 

Good night.