November Round-up

[zfleming12 395]

Otherwise known as HumanBeing25 who was given a 3 day suspension by myself earlier today.He/they will now be permanently banned.

YES OMG THANK YOU. I was really getting tired of that person.

Anyways I like the pix Hicks shared yesterday. Its starting to look more and like a zombie apocalyspe!

[alphamat 116]

Otherwise known as HumanBeing25 who was given a 3 day suspension by myself earlier today.

He/they will now be permanently banned.

 

Thank you SO MUCH. Good riddance.

[soapmak3r 677]

If client side performance is good, then why don't they have some of the zeds spawn serverside, and some spawn clientside based on relative proximity (as in, not spawning out of thin air in front of you)?

1000 serverside ones seems a bit low....

[Katana67 2907]

His poor understanding of assertions (premises) in relation to argumentation was pretty hilarious.

 

On-topic.

 

Regarding zombie pathing, I think people might be a little too forgiving with this. This is something, that in my opinion, has to be rectified to the point of near-perfection. It's right up there with zombie hit detection and animations. I wouldn't even mind if this was a release-preventing issue to be honest (I'm quite sure it's not).

 

In order to shift the focus back onto zombies, they have to be made well. We cannot simply accept a poorly depicted zombie if any semblance of legitimacy is to be maintained with regard to DayZ's genre. To disclaim, I'm not faulting Rocket or the developers when I say this. But, the zombies (as a group and as individuals) haven't even been aesthetically sorted out yet, much less had their technical back-end honed, and much less tweaked and balanced to actually be a threat. Now, I recognize that this is the purpose of the development process, but I think we're still a long way off (in my opinion from what I've seen) from having passable zombies. Of course, they've been markedly improved from both the mod and from the earlier SA footage we've seen. But they didn't start out in a good place to begin with.

 

Now, one might then ask the question (given the improvements) "What more do you want?". I want zombies that are treated as parts of a whole, rather than as a blanket ambient system. I recognize that this might not be possible given the current restraints of the engine, which is why I think (way down the road) they'll have to look into either developing an engine from scratch or adapting a more flexible engine. I want decent animations, which the developers are certainly striving for and have improved in this regard. But they're still far from convincing. I want a visceral and intuitive zombie attack system that isn't reliant on zombies just magically outputting "damage". From what I gather, this is an area that has been improved, but to a much less significant degree than the changes in animations. The list could go on to include zombies with different levels of group communication, awareness, even going so far as to include zombies which carry objects on them rather than just being nebulous lootable containers.

 

Now, again, I recognize that this treatment of zombies might not be possible with regard to the engine. But that doesn't mean we should be satisfied with a sub-par zombie.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Katana67

[rossums 2190]

His poor understanding of assertions (premises) in relation to argumentation was pretty hilarious.

 

On-topic.

 

Regarding zombie pathing, I think people might be a little too forgiving with this. This is something, that in my opinion, has to be rectified to the point of near-perfection. It's right up there with zombie hit detection and animations. I wouldn't even mind if this was a release-preventing issue to be honest (I'm quite sure it's not).

 

In order to shift the focus back onto zombies, they have to be made well. We cannot simply accept a poorly depicted zombie if any semblance of legitimacy is to be maintained with regard to DayZ's genre. To disclaim, I'm not faulting Rocket or the developers when I say this. But, the zombies (as a group and as individuals) haven't even been aesthetically sorted out yet, much less had their technical back-end honed, and much less tweaked and balanced to actually be a threat. Now, I recognize that this is the purpose of the development process, but I think we're still a long way off (in my opinion from what I've seen) from having passable zombies. Of course, they've been markedly improved from both the mod and from the earlier SA footage we've seen. But they didn't start out in a good place to begin with.

 

Now, one might then ask the question (given the improvements) "What more do you want?". I want zombies that are treated as parts of a whole, rather than as a blanket ambient system. I recognize that this might not be possible given the current restraints of the engine, which is why I think (way down the road) they'll have to look into either developing an engine from scratch or adapting a more flexible engine. I want decent animations, which the developers are certainly striving for and have improved in this regard. But they're still far from convincing. I want a visceral and intuitive zombie attack system that isn't reliant on zombies just magically outputting "damage". From what I gather, this is an area that has been improved, but to a much less significant degree than the changes in animations. The list could go on to include zombies with different levels of group communication, awareness, even going so far as to include zombies which carry objects on them rather than just being nebulous lootable containers.

 

Now, again, I recognize that this treatment of zombies might not be possible with regard to the engine. But that doesn't mean we should be satisfied with a sub-par zombie.

Zombie pathfinding is currently still being worked on, the pathfinding in the video is not the complete version that it will be using.

The problem that you saw in the video was that the actual actions and the animations were not matching up, this is because it keeps being changed and it takes far too long to redo the animations every single time.

I can assure you that I've had a lot more trouble with zombies in the SA compared to the mod, other testers will agree - obviously we're not allowed to go in to details but the devs have made a big improvement in almost every regard compared to the mod.

[dgeesio 1034]

hope so :)

[Katana67 2907]

Zombie pathfinding is currently still being worked on, the pathfinding in the video is not the complete version that it will be using.

The problem that you saw in the video was that the actual actions and the animations were not matching up, this is because it keeps being changed and it takes far too long to redo the animations every single time.

... but the devs have made a big improvement in almost every regard compared to the mod.

 

I get that. But I'm really just basing this critique off of two things...

 

1) What I've seen

2) The excuses and/or reasons made/given by Rocket to justify why things aren't up-to-snuff or why things will never be so

 

Now, I don't mean excuses as if he's being disingenuous. I mean it purely in the sense of "a reason for why X is/is not Y."

 

I'm more concerned with the system paradigm itself (i.e. treatment of zombies as an all-encompassing ambient 'mechanic') versus a more granular treatment of zombies where they are regarded as individual actors. Animations lining up with actions, I get that it can be rectified (and said that this is one of the areas that I feel they've improved the most). But things like how damage is inflicted and how zombies actually interact with the environment/player are being treated in a manner that is certainly expedient and simple, but is not wholesome in my opinion.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Katana67

[Popa611 5]

I don't know if my question was already answered but... do you know if there will be ghilie kind of clothes? Or somehting similar? (Not in the pre-alpha but in SA full game or whatever)

[Katana67 2907]

I don't know if my question was already answered but... do you know if there will be ghilie kind of clothes? Or somehting similar? (Not in the pre-alpha but in SA full game or whatever)

 

I don't think we've seen a "ghillie" per-se, but we have certainly seen OD jackets and camouflage chest rigs. The big issue with the ghillie suit that bothered me in the mod is that the backpack did not show up. Would mitigate the benefit of a ghillie suit if you had a big tan Coyote Pack box on your back to give your position away, or could give the ghillie suit wearer a bit of incentive to go with a smaller pack or a smaller pack with a camo pattern.

 

EDIT - That, and one should have to actually make/craft their ghillie suit. One could gather foliage from around and place it in the ghillie suit, or have to loot burlap and craft it that way. Rather than finding an in-tact ghillie suit at 100%, one should find the OD suit/mesh and have to craft/forage for the actual camouflage scheme.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Katana67

[EightBitPixel 9]

I don't know if my question was already answered but... do you know if there will be ghilie kind of clothes? Or somehting similar? (Not in the pre-alpha but in SA full game or whatever)

I don't see why not, There will most likely be a wide variety of clothing available as the game progresses

[Quanaril (DayZ) 114]

I hate to break it to you but I seriously doubt that DayZ SA will sell 1.7 million copies.  Even some of the most popular indie titles like Prison Architect or Don't Starve haven't even sold a quarter of that.

 

Multi-player games tend to sell more than Single-player games.

[klesh 2423]

I'm more concerned with the system paradigm itself (i.e. treatment of zombies as an all-encompassing ambient 'mechanic') versus a more granular treatment of zombies where they are regarded as individual actors. Animations lining up with actions, I get that it can be rectified (and said that this is one of the areas that I feel they've improved the most). But things like how damage is inflicted and how zombies actually interact with the environment/player are being treated in a manner that is certainly expedient and simple, but is not wholesome in my opinion.

 

 

 

I think the problem, and believe me I am not a programmer/Arma whiz or anything, is that do achieve what you're talking about, and at the same time provide thousands of them persistently in a game are really difficult things to do.   You can have awesome zombies, but you can only have 5 of them on a screen at once, and they disappear after you kill them or somesuch (like games with more visceral zombies do).  You can have hundreds of them milling around a town, but their quality attributes are proportionally reduced in order to provide those numbers.  The eventual goal being the fine line between quality zombie and lots of them.   I think that will take a great deal of tweaking and fixing and developing well into the alpha and beta stages of DayZ's development.

[Katana67 2907]

I think the problem, and believe me I am not a programmer/Arma whiz or anything, is that do achieve what you're talking about, and at the same time provide thousands of them persistently in a game are really difficult things to do.   You can have awesome zombies, but you can only have 5 of them on a screen at once, and they disappear after you kill them or somesuch (like games with more visceral zombies do).  You can have hundreds of them milling around a town, but their quality attributes are proportionally reduced in order to provide those numbers.  The eventual goal being the fine line between quality zombie and lots of them.   I think that will take a great deal of tweaking and fixing and developing well into the alpha and beta stages of DayZ's development.

 

Agreed. I think that the approach is best left for a more flexible/malleable engine. I look forward to seeing what they've got in store for SA, given what they're working with and how they can pull it off.

[sav112g 114]

Although the SA should be more hardcore, more about surviving than a bang bang shoot everything I actually watched last night that ARMA3 Breaking point and for the first time thought Mmm will this not be better in time over the SA as its got a march using the new engine. Everyone loves guns no matter and if they scale back the silly hardware it could be fantastic.   

Edited November 22, 2013 by sav112

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I hate to break it to you but I seriously doubt that DayZ SA will sell 1.7 million copies.  Even some of the most popular indie titles like Prison Architect or Don't Starve haven't even sold a quarter of that.

 

I respectfully disagree. The fact that this mod alone has generated 1.7 million unique users demonstrates that the foundations are sound. If 1.7 m unique users have played DayZ online, that means each of them had to buy a copy of Arma 2, in most cases for the explicit purpose of playing a mod. That alone is impressive. Don't Starve and Prison Architect simply don't compare - as you said, they haven't even sold a quarter of that number. Those are pretty niche in their mode of gameplay, whereas DayZ is in a format (a shooter) that is far more accessible to the market.

 

 

 

 

 

By the way I'm sorry if my posts earlier were inflammatory, but I simply can't stand for slander against a person who really has not actually wronged anyone.

Edited November 22, 2013 by SalamanderAnder

[Zero3ffect 60]

Multi-player games tend to sell more than Single-player games.

 

I've always read the opposite but I don't know how true either is.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. The fact that this mod alone has generated 1.7 million unique users demonstrates that the foundations are sound. If 1.7 m unique users have played DayZ online, that means each of them had to buy a copy of Arma 2, in most cases for the explicit purpose of playing a mod. That alone is impressive. Don't Starve and Prison Architect simply don't compare - as you said, they haven't even sold a quarter of that number. Those are pretty niche in their mode of gameplay, whereas DayZ is in a format (a shooter) that is far more accessible to the market.

 

DayZ is as much niche as the other two games because at the heart of DayZ is a military simulator which is an extremely niche genre. I guess we'll see what happens whenever the game finally launches into alpha.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Zero3ffect

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

DayZ is as much niche as the other two games because at the heart of DayZ is a military simulator which is an extremely niche genre. I guess we'll see what happens whenever the game finally launches into alpha.

 

A reasonable man would admit their mistake when faced with facts. Almost two million people purchased Arma 2 to play the Mod. How do you reconcile it with your position that the SA will sell less then Prison Architect?

[zfleming12 395]

Looks at the page numbers, and whistles.

Wow, we are reallly......hyped...

[Katana67 2907]

Although the SA should be more hardcore, more about surviving than a bang bang shoot everything I actually watched last night that ARMA3 Breaking point and for the first time thought Mmm will this not be better in time over the SA as its got a march using the new engine. Everyone loves guns no matter and if they scale back the silly hardware it could be fantastic.   

 

I dunno, the interiors in ARMA 3 are horseshit and are unlikely to be improved. The ones in SA look amazing.

 

Ultimately, BP is still a mod and beholden to the limits of the game which it is modifying. I'm sure there'll be pros and cons of both. BP has always really been about MOAR everything. Which is sort of silly. I like BP, but it's not really a lasting experience for me. It's just more weapons.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Katana67

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

I dunno, the interiors in ARMA 3 are horseshit and are unlikely to be improved. The ones in SA look amazing.

 

Ultimately, BP is still a mod and beholden to the limits of the game which it is modifying. I'm sure there'll be pros and cons of both. BP has always really been about MOAR everything. Which is sort of silly. I like BP, but it's not really a lasting experience for me. It's just more weapons.

 

I believe building/interiors is something that can be improved by modders, also SA items have been trickling into Arma 3 as well.

[Katana67 2907]

I believe building/interiors is something that can be improved by modders, also SA items have been trickling into Arma 3 as well.

 

I have yet to see this be done. Putting crates in hangars/warehouses does not count.

[Zero3ffect 60]

A reasonable man would admit their mistake when faced with facts. Almost two million people purchased Arma 2 to play the Mod. How do you reconcile it with your position that the SA will sell less then Prison Architect?

 

I haven't made a mistake at all, in fact, no one knows how well DayZ will sell until it comes out.  I was just pointing out that DayZ is indeed a niche game just like Prison Architect or Don't Starve.  Also, I never said that DayZ would sell less than Prison Architect so don't put words in my mouth.  Regardless to if 2 million people bought ARMA II just for the DayZ mod that doesn't mean much.  How many of those 2 million people played for more than a month or two before moving on?  As I said, no one will know if it will sell well until it releases.  Stop being so fan boyish.

[twinturbonet (DayZ) 294]

There should be fishing in this game.  We would need more ponds or lakes in the middle of the map tho  :(

[zfleming12 395]

There should be fishing in this game.  We would need more ponds or lakes in the middle of the map tho  :(

There is fishing in the mod already :D

[Owain1122 218]

Remember in the 'how much will it sell argument' that I'm 90% sure DayZ will come to PS4 and Xbox