Reward for staying alive for a long time (instinct)

[iacopo 8]

Great idea, and i like also what Raymond added to this idea.

 

Survivor don't get random improvement, but get improvement based on what they did, so if you run a lot you'll run faster and longer (consuming less water and food), if you shoot a lot of zombies or players you'll be more and more precise, the same for repair vehiclesm cook, walk stealty throw zombies, etc.

 

It should be implemented with what Hetstain wrote

 

 

Interesting, how long before such a thing would hacked though and we would have to be aware of players with a full 'skill level'. 

 

It would also have to be implemented in a way that you could rig the system. For instance the cooking food thing mentioned. Only once every twenty four hours could cooking food apply to the char as a 'levelling up ' as such, so no spam levelling. Only a certain amount of hours of running per twenty four hours so someone doesnt go out for an hour or so and leave their char at home running endlessly in one direction and such.

[Death_Dealer 3155]

You will be rewarded with a glorious beard 

[Hetstaine 10852]

Beeards.

 

Topic reaches awesomeness level.

[OfficerRaymond 2064]

You already have tons of reasons to want to stay alive: the time you spend on your character and the loot you gather isn't enough already? I don't have to think twice if i have stabilized my life with the gear i collected. KoSers on the other hand have no reason to live no matter the reasons to survive, they all just live for the moment they meet the next player. And that will never change unless you reduce corpse despawn to 1 min. f.e.

No it clearly isn't enough already. In the mod there is time survived and gear. What do 85-90% of people do? They don't give two shits. Most of the community IMO started KoS because they got bored of the game, and I don't blame them for the most part. DayZ after a few months? Fucking boring. Once you've done it all, been across the map a million times, and tried to interact with hundreds of people that just shot you in the face... you stop caring.

 

We're not talking about stopping KoS here. We're talking about how to give an persons character value so that they'll want to live even more (which IMO will reduce KoS, but that's beside the point). Not value over X number of days survived or what gun and clothing they have. No. REAL value. Rocket wants this to happen, and this is a discussion of how it'll happen.

Edited October 11, 2013 by OfficerRaymond

[MitchP 9]

 

 

Hearing and vision won't be better because you live in the wild.

I beg to differ, my whole family are hunters. Our hearing and vision is a hell of a lot more accurate than your average person's, Not necessarily 'better' but we have learned to focus on certain aspects of vision and sound. This is because we have spent so long out in the bush, so in a way, this idea is very feasible!  

[AP_Norris 1018]

I beg to differ, my whole family are hunters. Our hearing and vision is a hell of a lot more accurate than your average person's, Not necessarily 'better' but we have learned to focus on certain aspects of vision and sound. This is because we have spent so long out in the bush, so in a way, this idea is very feasible!

Yes, adverage eyes are trained for movement and colour.

However its often impossible to pick out an animal from colour.

What this makes me think is maybe like when going blind you favour hearing maybe it can be same for hunting.

The slightest movement becoming instantly obvious, be it as small as a persons chest rising and falling.

[MitchP 9]

Exactly, maybe a more better way of saying it is more precise senses. What if when you've been alive for x amount of time that your hearing picks up to the smaller details. For example, I stalked a bambi killer on sniper hill last week, I proned about 200m to him and he didnt hear a thing. If this new system was in and he had been alive for a decent amount of time then he might have been able to hear the slight rustling of leaves when I crawled over them. Im not really sure how vision could be improved though, any ideas?

[Day Unit 18]

Im not really sure how vision could be improved though, any ideas?

Better night vision compare to new spawns?

Edited October 12, 2013 by Day Unit

[enforcer1975 1111]

Better night vision compare to new spawns?

 

So now we are also mutating...?

 

 

No it clearly isn't enough already. In the mod there is time survived and gear. What do 85-90% of people do? They don't give two shits. Most of the community IMO started KoS because they got bored of the game, and I don't blame them for the most part. DayZ after a few months? Fucking boring. Once you've done it all, been across the map a million times, and tried to interact with hundreds of people that just shot you in the face... you stop caring.

 

We're not talking about stopping KoS here. We're talking about how to give an persons character value so that they'll want to live even more (which IMO will reduce KoS, but that's beside the point). Not value over X number of days survived or what gun and clothing they have. No. REAL value. Rocket wants this to happen, and this is a discussion of how it'll happen.

 

That's exactly what you need to do. You have to stop KoS if you want players to value their character more. The only ones having a laugh in the end are the KoSers who will make it their life task to shoot the ones who value the game time they invested into their characters. The normal players who approach others aren't the problem here as you stated. KoSers and TDM in DayZ players are...i don't mind the few who shoot out of fear..but not many will come to you and try to barter, or would they?

Edited October 12, 2013 by Enforcer

[IrishHugo 75]

Does nearly every discussion here turn to KoS?

 

Back on topic, lots of good suggestions, glad people like the idea. In regards to night vision, would it make more sense that the longer you played on that specific night, the brighter it got as you went along. It's like in real life, your pupils get bigger(I think) and you see better in the dark the more you stare into it. 

 

If you really wanted to go crazy you could do what the pirates did. Have an eyepatch as an item of clothing, your vision is reduced to only one eye, but at night you swap the patch to the other and you have perfect night vision. Because your eye patched eye was in darkness all that time, it has become accustomed to it and now you have nearly perfect night vision. That's why pirates wore them. 

 

Sorta a stupid suggestion, but if some people really wanted to have good night vision all the time at reduced normal vision, they could.

[enforcer1975 1111]

If you really wanted to go crazy you could do what the pirates did. Have an eyepatch as an item of clothing, your vision is reduced to only one eye, but at night you swap the patch to the other and you have perfect night vision. Because your eye patched eye was in darkness all that time, it has become accustomed to it and now you have nearly perfect night vision. That's why pirates wore them. 

 

Your hidden eye just doesn't need to adjust to the darkness...it still doesn't give you some super night vision capabilities over your normal abilities. If you wanted some sort of pros and cons about night vision you also have to consider the eyes "blind spot".

[AP_Norris 1018]

Better night vision compare to new spawns?

Night vision changes with the size of our pupils which regulate the amount of light that gets inside.

Unless your pupils can grow bigger than usual I'm not sure it would work.

Maybe change time? Is that what carrots do speed the process?

[Wayze 549]

Obviously we have to do something against this problem. No matter how we solve it, it is one of the top priorities for the SA. How do we make the life of a character valuable?

The easiest and most authentic way is just to implement a character development system (like suggested so often in this forum). When a character does things he learns. The more he does a thing the better he gets in this subject matter.

This is not only logical, realistic and authentic but it is also would be a very elementary core feature. Without this a characters life is worth zero. Nothing. No matter how long you survive the only thing that keeps you alive is the loot you carry. As soon as you don't have any loot you can just die, because there is simply no difference between the character you have now and you will have later.

As soon as you develope you character in any form it will be valuable. The thing is to find out what to develope. Will it be essential things like repairing a car or just some useless attributtes like running a bit faster?

This has to be balanced and the alpha is perfect for doing so.

 

Without this core element, a character value, the game lacks in many different gameplay aspects and gets very, very unauthentic. The social experiment fails.

Why? Because what would you do if a bandit group surrounds you and forced you to give them your weapons? Would you do it in real life? Ofcourse you would!

Would you do it in DayZ? Nope, why would you? If you give them the weapon you have nothing left, so it is better to kill some of these guys even if you have no chance for survival.

This is just an example, but many social interaction just fails because of the lack of character value. People in the game do not live because they want to survive, but because they want to have good loot. And this is in my opinion the wrong direction DayZ goes.

 

I don't want to be afraid to lose my gear, my weapon or my ammo. I want to be afraid that my character dies. This is after all the reason why I carry the weapons, the gear and the ammo, isn't it? I need them to survive but in DayZ at the moment I do not do that to survive. And this is a very big problem. You wonder about KoS, about people killing each other for fun. But in the end ask yourself why do you even carry the weapons you carry? Why do you search for high military loot? Why? It is not to survive but in the end it is always to kill other players. The difference between you and a bandit is that you do not shoot first, but you shoot the bandits. Without the bandits you simply have nothing to do. The game would be totally boring. Why is that? Because everything you do in the game, every single pile of loot you carry is just to eliminate other players, wether they are evil or good. There is simply no other reason for playing the game because surviving is totally useless. You don't need to survive because you can respawn. The only thing you lose is the gear, the gear you need to kill other players.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Without this core element, a character value, the game lacks in many different gameplay aspects and gets very, very unauthentic. The social experiment fails.

Why? Because what would you do if a bandit group surrounds you and forced you to give them your weapons? Would you do it in real life? Ofcourse you would!

 

There is one difference IRL..you don't have TS to call for help and many use the excuse "it's just a game anyway" for KoS. They don't even want to play a role. IRL you would be occupied with your role and would not do a lot more than that, this would get quite boring in the game. Who would want to play a surgeon who has to stay at home while the rest go on a raid to find food? NOBODY. I had enough examples in Sahrani Life, there were lots of things you could do in the end but people prefered to KoS in the end. Even if they had to rely on people manufacturing food there would be 1 out of 50 who might do it because he needs it himself, the others would just kill either him or others to get it, it's not like you would earn a fortune out of it anyway. You can't have a solution without enforcing some kind of rule and that again is also a topic a lot will fight over the same as decreasing KoS and increasing the value of life in game without turning it into a grind-kills-shoot-em-all-fest.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Enforcer

[Wayze 549]

There is one difference IRL..you don't have TS to call for help and many use the excuse "it's just a game anyway" for KoS. They don't even want to play a role. IRL you would be occupied with your role and would not do a lot more than that, this would get quite boring in the game. Who would want to play a surgeon who has to stay at home while the rest go on a raid to find food? NOBODY. I had enough examples in Sahrani Life, there were lots of things you could do in the end but people prefered to KoS in the end. Even if they had to rely on people manufacturing food there would be 1 out of 50 who might do it because he needs it himself, the others would just kill either him or others to get it, it's not like you would earn a fortune out of it anyway. You can't have a solution without enforcing some kind of rule and that again is also a topic a lot will fight over the same as decreasing KoS and increasing the value of life in game without turning it into a grind-kills-shoot-em-all-fest.

No idea what you are talking about to be honest. Probably my bad english here.

Anyways, I'll try to respond.

Why are you talking about roles? It's not like you are born with a role, you choose what role you have. You don't have to be a surgeon if you don't want to and even if you are it does not mean that you only do that. In real life that would be absolute nonsense. Nobody would just specify in one thing. It is a survival scenario. You have to be able to handle a gun etc. the more things you are able to do the more chances of survival you have.

 

It's just a game and it always stays a game. Character value is not the value others have for your life but the value for you. KoS is nothing bad, if you want to survive well then you can KoS that is for you to decide. This is a whole other subject matter. I am talking about the problem that a character is worth sh*t. The only thing that is worth something is loot. Sure there are always people who just want to kill others, but this number will probably decrease so much that these guys will kind of get authentic because they will be the crazy guys. The people who go nuts. Why will the number decrease? Because people who just want to kill others in the game won't enjoy it much. Why?

Because they won't even have the weapons to do so. Why? Because weapons and ammo are f*cking are.

Additionally to that people do have to actually survive. Not like in the mod where you got 2 cans of beans and 2 colas and you are good to go for manhunt. In the SA (hopefully) you will have the constant pressure of survival. People who just want to run around and kill others will feel annoyed because they actually have to care for other things.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Wayze

[enforcer1975 1111]

Additionally to that people do have to actually survive. Not like in the mod where you got 2 cans of beans and 2 colas and you are good to go for manhunt. In the SA (hopefully) you will have the constant pressure of survival. People who just want to run around and kill others will feel annoyed because they actually have to care for other things.

 

Then what are you ranting about if your problems have already been solved with this sentence like i was exactly trying to tell you???  You don't need a value as i said...just keep them occupied then they don't have time to PK and KoS.

Edited October 12, 2013 by Enforcer

[GodOfGrain 191]

Yea, we have talked about this before...so I dont have to write much but can paste the link :)

 

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/120173-on-game-design-progression-through-equipment-and-a-system-of-micro-skills/

[Wayze 549]

Then what are you ranting about if your problems have already been solved with this sentence like i was exactly trying to tell you???  You don't need a value as i said...just keep them occupied then they don't have time to PK and KoS.

The value is even more important. Because if there is no value, you can simply respawn. Kill yourself. If the game is too hard why should you go on? If you survived 10 days but you have no ammo there is no point in living. Kill youself and you maybe even get a good spawn.

If you have a friend and you play with him and after a while you die, he will no kill himself to spawn near you because he has something to lose. Very important in my opinion. Me for example I feel totally save if playing with a friend, no adrenalin at all. But if I know that if he dies or I get killed, we will have to find each other again which can take a long time. This is all what DayZ was about for me, the fear of dying.

 

If you don't have a value to a characters life a hard concept would just result in total deathmatch. Why would you even try to survive? Just respawn until you find a weapon and then kill other players, because there is simply nothing else to do. Your character is absolutly worthless and he will always be absolutly worthless. If you don't have a value, you don't need to call the game a survival game, because your life is worth nothing.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Wayze

[geryon 180]

Would your health not degrade with mal-nutrition, lack of medical attention and stress.  If you've seen soldiers exposed to prolonged stress they start to lose weight and get less combat worthy.

 

I think if there is a trade off it would be better.  Advantage being one with one's environment while your body breaks down due to the constant pounding and stress the harsh environment gives you.  The advantages and negatives need to be very subtle though.  They can't be very blatant and should be overcome by better players.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Would your health not degrade with mal-nutrition, lack of medical attention and stress.  If you've seen soldiers exposed to prolonged stress they start to lose weight and get less combat worthy.

 

I think if there is a trade off it would be better.  Advantage being one with one's environment while your body breaks down due to the constant pounding and stress the harsh environment gives you.  The advantages and negatives need to be very subtle though.  They can't be very blatant and should be overcome by better players.

 

it would take some time until it takes effect though. For game purposes the time should be decreased to have an impact. I would be surprised if everyone was well fed in a time of scarcity. They would look almost like the fugitives you see on TV. Not hungered to the bone but noticable hollow cheeks and such things.

[dallas 5195]

This is more a brain storm, than things that I demand being put in the game.

 

Just playing with the thought.

 

If gear is the only progression, as soon as you learn the default loot locations, you can easily negate the 5-10 minute run to a lucrative loot hub. Also every stranger you encounter will considered more as an opportunity to level up your gear and incentivise KOS.

 

In a game, where the motto is "don't get attached to your gear" and where gear is your only measurement of progression, you're sending the player mixed signals. Mostly you're saying survival means nothing, since it's only a matter of time before you respawn at the beach, all you can really do is to postpone the inevitable by making your killing sprees last as long as possible. You'll always be either the victim or the victimizer. 

 

Maybe we need players to become attached to their character instead.

 

You need to come up with a type of character progression, that avoids some of the traditional mmo grind death traps. You don't want a person making 170 bonfires to increase meals's effectiveness by 5%. You don't want clan members to spam bloodbags all day to become legendary healers. It's pretty difficult to come up with a progression system without turning DayZ into Skyrim or wow.

 

Maybe an adrenaline system that affects your senses. Increases your heartbeat, not only when you spot a bandit, but everyone. Maybe you can add players to a friend list, if both players agree in a "agreement/trade" window. But your heartbeat/adrenaline rush activate not only in combat, but when you see zombies, wild animals and strangers. Maybe you can become better at controlling your adrenaline rush the more zombies you kill, the more guns you fire, the more successful trade windows you open and the more days you've lived. All these encounters might give you an unnoticeable stat increase, but it wont really become a noticeable difference, unless you stay alive for several days or even weeks.

 

More than repeat actions, I think time lived needs to be an important part of the "progression formular." So rather than actually grinding the skill, simply not dying and starting all over becomes the grind.

 

Adrenaline controle.

Cardio, cardio, cardio. 

Scavening intuition. 

Exposure/weather observations.

 

These stats might affect your UI or they might just add more interface messages, like adding the line "Looks like it's going to rain soon" or "This dead deer appears to be infected and unedible."

 

All these stat increases or decreases has to be so tiny, that grinding them is going to be a waste of time, but they'll make a difference for a player, who's a dedicated long term survivor. The purpose shouldn't be on getting an artificial advantage, but rather trying to give players something to lose and live for.

 

I don't know if there's a solution, I also know subtle changes can have major and unforeseen impacts on gameplay, just look at the polarizing humanity system. I think the game needs to reward efforts to survive more, but without completely removing this unique multiplayermode, which combines PvE and PvP.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Dallas

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

No offense intended, honest question to DemonGroover.  Are you happy with the current state of the KoS mindset?  Not that I have anything against banditry at all, its fun ... but there are just far to many people with the CoD mentality of "Oh I'll just respawn" and just set out to troll people.   I personally hope something (not this namely but something, altho I like this idea alot) is done to reward those that have survived longer.  I do agree with you tho, time survived would be only way to go I dont think there should be any kind of xp grind and am definitely totally against anything that would carry thru a death.

easy solution.. do it like EVE online..

 

stuff is earned throu RL time... there is NO grinding.

 

if you want something u have to invest the RL time into it. i think it would be a excellent way to give value to a characters life, you open and earn perks, that u choose to invest RL time into.

 

but honestly given how long SA is taking, additions like this would take another dev. co. to do..

 

none of us have the time to wait for such additions

Edited October 15, 2013 by Siberian