How to end the KOS issue!

[Dagwood 680]

We've all seen inumerable KOS rants and discussions. One camp feels that the game needs to be more condusive to social/player interaction and that the game needs more mechanics to support this. Another camp feels that any kind of "restrictions" on player interaction and freedom are against the ethos of dayz.

Here is a novel idea: both sides have very valid points.

Yes, random player encounters and interactions that don't start with gunfire or KOS are much more exciting. But at the same time, those interactions can be risky and potentially dangerous; so players should have the freedom to shoot on sight instead if they feel more comfortable doing so.

These discussions never reach a conclusion because nobody is ever willing to compromise.

I want you all to listen very closely as I am about to give you all the answer to the big KOS question. Ready? Here it is:

The game is not hard enough. Period.

A player with a few weeks/months experience can survive indefinitely alone. Until this changes, players will continue to follow this "better him than me" competitive mentality that has lead us to the KOS majority we are currently experiencing.

So what's the solution? Don't expect KOS to ever become the minority in the mod. This will never happen. If the zombies/environment are deadly enough in the SA we will see more player cooperation. Until then, I would suggest practicing hold ups or just interacting with other players.

Yes, this might get you killed because that guy you are trying to communicate with is a KOSPOS. But gear is replaceable and killing everyone you see to protect it is what leads to these KOS threads.

Here's the point in a nutshell:

As it stands in the mod now, infected are something that can get you killed and lead to the loss of your hard earned gear that you were more concerned about losing to a "bandit".

This game will realize its potential when gear is something that you NEED in order to better your chances of survival against the ENVIRONMENT.

^^please take a moment to reflect upon that last distinction and let it sink in.

Your savior,

Dagwood

[Wolfensteinsaurus 2252]

I feel like this thread was not necessary.

[Korsbaek 1778]

Soooo.... What's the solution?

[Rage VG 4033]

If you make the environment harder in an attempt to enforce co-operation, players will have greater difficulty accruing gear to survive. This gives further incentive for me to hypothetically shoot you in the back of the face and take your gear instead of trying to get it myself.

 

Also, this is a point that has been brushed on far too many times, and another topic on it hasn't really shed any light on it.

[Dagwood 680]

But if you are dealing with so many infected that fighting them all off alone after firing a weapon is near impossible? Then it's not all of this "gear" worshiping. Then it's about trying to get out of town alive.

When we are safely in the woods away from town you can shoot me in the back of the face. But when we are surrounded by more zombies than can be handled alone at once, you will learn not to fire your weapon "needlessly" when you can play nice and then go for the backstab/ambush in a less dangerous environment.

Is it so hard to see what I'm getting at?

[p4triot 207]

But if you are dealing with so many infected that fighting them all off alone after firing a weapon is near impossible? Then it's not all of this "gear" worshiping. Then it's about trying to get out of town alive.

When we are safely in the woods away from town you can shoot me in the back of the face. But when we are surrounded by more zombies than can be handled alone at once, you will learn not to fire your weapon "needlessly" when you can play nice and then go for the backstab/ambush in a less dangerous environment.

Is it so hard to see what I'm getting at?

 

In fact, I won't wait to be out of the town to shoot you. I will just shoot you in the leg just after pretend Im friendly and run away while zombies eat you. And after that, just come back to you crawling and pickup all your gear.

 

However, in the hipothetical case the zombies we're impossible to beat alone, this game will turn impossible for the lone wolves, and they will end up quitting. There will only be left people like me who play with real friends and we're always a 4-5 guys team. But you're right, KoS will be reduced, because we would never find anyone alone, and if we do, we won't shoot until we know where his friends are (as for sure, he is part of another squad) and after shooting, thats not actually kosing, but more of a regular shootout between squads.

 

P.D: just to note, I don't normally KoS, in fact, never do. But I also don't team up with randoms so if I see you, most probably I will just hide and watch until you're to far away to be a danger for me. You won't ever notice I saw you, and therebefore you won't know I could just have killed you if I wanted to. And now there's the question: how many real KoS is ingame? It could be possible than 4 out of 5 times you just went out alive because someone like me didn't shot, but as you dont know an then die from the 5th guy who did shot you (and the only one you know was there) you end up believing that "everyone KoS in this game"?

[meat pie 632]

good ideas but kos is human nature,nothing can change this without changing the game to much

[Jamz 253]

good ideas but kos is human nature,nothing can change this without changing the game to much

 

This. If you create a game where everyone can get a gun and can shoot each other with absolutely no consequences, then killing will be the order of the day. Ultimately KOS is all that can exist in DayZ without forced controls (which won't happen) - trusting people is hard, killing them is easy.

[mercules 1290]

You can change things without changing the systems. It would require cultural bias though and typically the cultural bias for game populations is toward easy or action orientated. Not shooting someone is probably the best idea at times, but very few people can resist if there is nothing else to do and I think people are so adept at gathering up gear and avoiding zombies now that they have grown bored and decided to challenge themselves by shooting at things that shoot back. So then the pressure is on shooting first since these other people have and you get a cultural bias towards KoS instead of away from it. More people KoS and after being shot several times after stating you were friendly others give up and give in to just shooting and not worrying about communication. 

So one way to swing it back without changing the system is for people to simply decide they are not going to KoS and sticking with it. Eventually you will again have experiences where you trusted someone and they didn't betray you and there will be a slight bias away from KoS. 

 

My friends and I like to hunt those with Bandit skins. We know they are shooting people so we don't mind KoS-ing them. Others get better treatment and maybe will not go down the path to a bandit skin because of it. 

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

The game is not hard enough? That has never been said before...

[Dagwood 680]

I agree with you that players blundering around and expecting not to be shot is absurd. If you are constantly exposing your position to other players, you deserve the swift death in your imminent future.

But if I am being stealthy and have worked my way deep into a zombie infested town and you have done the same but see me first, wouldn't firing your pistol/shotgun/rifle bring a horde down upon your head?

I missed that step in logic during your narrative of our hypothetical encounter.

[dgeesio 1034]

im tempted to kos after reading another pointless thread again.

[rn_max 202]

Far less guns, especially military exotica, more melee weapons and primitives instead.

[cosoleto 1]

This. If you create a game where everyone can get a gun and can shoot each other with absolutely no consequences, then killing will be the order of the day. Ultimately KOS is all that can exist in DayZ without forced controls (which won't happen) - trusting people is hard, killing them is easy.

 

Losing humanity isn't a consequence? Rebalancing, improving conditions which make loss humanity should work to reduce the KOS rate, no? Not everyone like to be considered a bandit.

 

For example, currently killing fresh spawned and unarmed players make lose more humanity than killing normal full equipped survivors? Killing with a distant gunshot in the back a player with just a melee weapon?

Edited September 19, 2013 by BrutoDetestsSB

[kevsta545 451]

In my opinion it would only increase KOS.. Harder game means more hunger for gear..

[rn_max 202]

Not if there aren't enough guns to go around.  Getting one then becomes a significant mission in itself.  More challenge, less kill on sight, because chair legs and hammers require point blank interaction.

 

Those few who get guns and ammo become e-peen heroes without the whole game being a shooting gallery, guns become an aspirational item, KOS has to become KOC ... kill on contact, a whole new ball game.

 

Far less more rubbish excuses like "sorry dude I panicked and fired", or "I thought you were a zed".  Now it becomes up close and personal.  Everyone mobs that loser on cherno hill like a plague of zeds for his bang tube, then all kill each other with sticks to decide who's going to run off with the holy rifle.

 

That's survival.

Edited September 20, 2013 by RN_Max

[longdongsilverz 22]

My friends and I like to hunt those with Bandit skins. We know they are shooting people so we don't mind KoS-ing them. Others get better treatment and maybe will not go down the path to a bandit skin because of it. 

 

Please message me. I'd like to join in this expedition if you guys play at the same time as I do.

[Mullraugh 1151]

I say we should all wait until the stanalone comes out. If it's a huge KoS clusterfuck, then we should think about this stuff.

[dgeesio 1034]

you cant wont solve kos some people will not understand this its a human mechanic not a game mechanic.

 

even if you remove guns people would still kill some one with a can of beans if they could.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I propose to change your title from

 

"How to end the KOS issue"

to

"How to end KOS, tissue?"

[Inception. 9443]

I think a solution to these topics is the priority. 

[JIJOK 49]

survive harder or easiest or whatever is JUST NOT FUN ENOUGHT ,  dayz = survive + kill + help  simple math 

[dgeesio 1034]

I think a solution to these topics is the priority. 

i think your name is the answer!

[Kraorr 6]

you cant wont solve kos some people will not understand this its a human mechanic not a game mechanic.

 

even if you remove guns people would still kill some one with a can of beans if they could.

 

I don't agree.  From a year ago to now, everyone has food and starving was never an issue.  In fact, food is so fine you could ask someone if he could give you some if you happened to be in the most ridiculously odd situation where you are about to starve and happen to not have any food at all.  I find it ironic that because in DayZ nothing is that scarce or hard to access that people could simply give a helping hand to the exceptionally unlucky guy that is in a dire lack of food/water, that instead he would rather shoot someone for said *insert not that urgently needed item that I already have anyways*. 

 

The DayZ mod does not provide any valid decision to KoS, nor gives one that would suggest helping each other out.  It's just the player - because he can - not because he is forced to.  It's only an entertainment option.  But since you can deliberately do it for no sensible reason, others get snowballed into needing to act the same.  From a free, nonsensical decision, the rest that are unwilling to do so end up being forced to act the same.  Or "staying strong" and dealing with it and never give in - wait yeah, there's not much ways for us to do that.  Shooting vs Talking, both trying to reach the other's heart - or getting to his head... 

 

As for the human mechanic, I completely agree with you but that's what the problem is; after popping your cherry in DayZ during your first hours of play, hyped by the idea and the possible risk that involves the concept of managing to persuade people to tag along instead of killing each other as what a FPS will subconsciously suggest us to do, once you get to know in and out the game's mechanic and dynamic, there is nothing in it that influences anyone to keep that humane stance:  it becomes a game, one that you know how it works and that the other players are only an entertainment option, given how we treat the FPS in a videogame trend:  shooting.  And then the only possible dialog there is left is hearing the other wine or expect some kind of revenge to give ourselves some kind of excitement.  I want to insist that I don't want to deplore nor the player's decision to act as such nor say that the game has gone to crap - we just have no ingame incentives to have a human logic going on so as long as it's turned off, it's just whatever people feel like doing and we're playing in a shooter environment.

 

One last thing:  if the damn zombies would actually be able to fully run inside buildings, that alone would influence people's behaviors a bunch.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Kraorr

[dgeesio 1034]

the only way you can stop kos is by crippling the game in whatever way you try and achievbe no kos. its as much as the gameplay as "zombies" or infected are. until people realize this just keep making these threads it beats watching daytime tv :lol: