Tried to jump back into DayZ...

[dgeesio 1034]

Yes, he did.

 

 

 

OP- these topics have been done to death. They are more annoying than the KoS issue itself. 

i meant he suggested no real idea on how to solve a unsolvable issue my bad english.

[Gwraspe 318]

x amount of kills = x% increase in chance of infection (be it from zombies, food, drink etc.) - maybe something like this as a proposal? seems to me everyone is crying about getting infection, ergo not getting infected due to bad humanity is incentive? shooting from the hip here, and not something I particularly think is a great idea but this kind of thing I suspect is what you'd like to have replied?

[Dr. Goner 661]

Well, think of a solution then.

Play a different game?

[dgeesio 1034]

congrats on making the worst suggestion in dayz ! :(

 

why sohuld people become higher risk of inection because theyre surviving the way they choose? they shouldnt be punished for it its a choice a way of playing. you give people choices you let them play you dont restrict and you dont restrict for minorites either.

 

only thing i can think of is if people join together to punish bandits as a group like in a town but as said you dont have any rules because there is no goverment its a survival of the fittest world.

 

maybe the group could hunt down bandits responsable for kos. thing is imagine big servers its going to be like a bullitain bord kos in electro , kos churno kos behrinzo blah blah evey two minutes.

[thelonewarrior 886]

Dgeesio

What your actually saying is that nothing will change YOUR KOS attitude

You do not speak for the entire community or the entire human race, many times I've tried to help a geared up player who has broken leg and is swarmed by zombies

And they choose to fire and eiether kill us both by shooting me and then dying to zombies or missing me and getting eaten while I laugh at their stupidly (loudly through direct chat)

So you are saying, that humans do this:

They have broken legs, pissing out with blood and a guy comes running at then clearly shooting the zombies, hero skin(in real life a medical sachal or simpler medical bag)

He starts saying get to cover, I'm here to help, your moments from death and think

OMG a human! Kill it!

Shoots the guy, gets torn apart

Yes your right, all humans are suicidal

That there is the problem with KOS, why don't you just stop replying?

People have clearly stated they don't want to run around in fairly bunny unicorn land but they want a balance of KOS and incentive to help each other or be friendly

But all you seem to care about is arguing as you said all these people want 100% removal of KOS when actually they don't, they just want it REDUCED (which just to make things easier and more understanding you should google the meaning before posting a reply to this)

Well I and most people here don't, a 50/50 balance opposed to 99/1 balance makes the game far more interesting and authentic (do not confuse with realistic)

No offence meant (unless you go ahead and post that I want a unicorn bunny land or some shit, then yes I hope I offend you which you will deserve for not actually using your brain and replying to my post with some thought)

Thank you

[Inception. 9443]

Play a different game?

 

Why?

 

 

i meant he suggested no real idea on how to solve a unsolvable issue my bad english.

 

Oh, my bad. 

Edited September 18, 2013 by Inception.

[Gwraspe 318]

congrats on making the worst suggestion in dayz ! :(

 

why sohuld people become higher risk of inection because theyre surviving the way they choose? they shouldnt be punished for it its a choice a way of playing. you give people choices you let them play you dont restrict and you dont restrict for minorites either.

 

only thing i can think of is if people join together to punish bandits as a group like in a town but as said you dont have any rules because there is no goverment its a survival of the fittest world.

 

maybe the group could hunt down bandits responsable for kos. thing is imagine big servers its going to be like a bullitain bord kos in electro , kos churno kos behrinzo blah blah evey two minutes.

read the latter part of the post breh - "and not something I particularly think is a great idea but this kind of thing I suspect is what you'd like to have replied?"

[-Gews- 7443]

i meant he suggested no real idea on how to solve a unsolvable issue my bad english.

 

I trust that Rocket Sahib will know the answer. Or we're all screwed :lol:

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

 

OP- these topics have been done to death. They are more annoying than the KoS issue itself. 

 

I don't disagree with you there, but surely the fact that the topic comes up time and time again would indicate that perhaps there is an issue that needs resolving. The fastest way to get rid of the discussion is to find a solution to the problem. I accept that the guys (both the mod developers, who I know work regular jobs as well as developing the mod on the side, and the Standalone team, who have bigger fish to fry at the moment) have enough on their plate as it is, but this is problem that is expanding to the point where it is legitimately driving away players, and therefore I would think probably needs at least some attention, if only a pin in a board somewhere that says 'look at the KOS problem'.

 

It's no good having a beautiful open-world survival simulator with fantastic disease mechanics, ingenious loot placement and hordes of dozens of zombies if 95% of the people playing the game are ignoring all that and running round Cherno with assault rifles.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Target Practice

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

 if only a pin in a board somewhere that says 'look at the KOS problem'.

 

 

The mechanic is actively a point of design discussion, not so much as a "problem" more-so finding authenticity in how and when it does occur.

[Boshed 29]

I don't disagree with you there, but surely the fact that the topic comes up time and time again would indicate that perhaps there is an issue that needs resolving. The fastest way to get rid of the discussion is to find a solution to the problem. I accept that the guys (both the mod developers, who I know work regular jobs as well as developing the mod on the side, and the Standalone team, who have bigger fish to fry at the moment) have enough on their plate as it is, but this is problem that is expanding to the point where it is legitimately driving away players, and therefore I would think probably needs at least some attention, if only a pin in a board somewhere that says 'look at the KOS problem'.

 

You are right of course, but are neglecting the fact KoS is considered when making design decisions already, perhaps more so in SA, but this is already on their minds and has been for a long time.

 

After all the discussions about it (and there have been hundreds) there hasn't really been an idea that everyone/the majority have really 'backed' while keeping in mind the ethos of Dayz.

[dgeesio 1034]

exactly boshed and what some cant understand there is no middle ground ;)

 

 

people want rules adding or to punish survival instincts in a survival game because they dont like it :lol:

 

i get why some dont shoot people and dont want kos but... its part of the parcel of a event or survival aspect. trying to limit something which cant be limited just to suit is silly and false !

 

 

go watch under the dome for eg . people start off singing banding hands cum by arr then after they realize things arnt going to change a whole new mentality arises. its survival of the fittest.

 

 

how about the people who dont kos become more aware ? have you ever thought it maybe your fault ? its just as arguable a point because your seen as a weak lamb you are taken out. that is normal human behaviour and animal behaviour. you are a weak link ! your stuff is taken. dont be the weak link, avoid what you dont want, then you wont be kos if you use your survival instincts to the fullest ability. ;)

 

so many ways of looking at it.

 

take out all other players for eg and just leave a survivor you ! you and only the zombies exist and you apply the same unskilled survival apects alone in the game youll still get killed and why because you didnt read the game use your survival instincts. people are in our world and people are not going to be governed or following rules in a ruless enviroment.

 

 

waits another i collect everytihng to be shot because im not looking what im doing soon to be dead respond in here i hate kos because i didnt check the sniper watching me though a open glass window at shop im dead and hes got my gear again please remove the kos cause i cant adapt to not being shot and why should i adapt to a realistic human trait kinda person.

 

i do understand your views i don want people to play my way i just dont want people limiting play because they find it wrong. it isnt wrong its a choice and a realistic cohice of what would happen and does happen in sitatuions involving panic and times that are hard. even limiting punisihing is unrealistic as said there is no punishing in a ungoverned zombie infected world. it would be a gentlemans way of the world kinda agreement that wouldnt be followed by some just as laws arnt in our world and they are inforced !

Edited September 18, 2013 by dgeesio

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Although it is mostly a player mechanic it doesn't mean nothing can or should be done. Nothing can be done to stop KoS, yes, but that's not what anyone wants either. There is a difference between KoS being common, adding to tension and atmosphere and 99% of the players shooting each other on sight for the lulz. It's an obvious problem and personally, the notion that no play style should be "punished" in any way is a bit stupid. The humanity system already does this in a way. Although DayZ is sandbox, there are obviously many limitations being a computer game so we already do play following certain "rules".

Not offering any real solutions here, just saying I've seen some decent ideas being shot down because "no play style should be at an advantage/disadvantage" which, again, is wrong as that already is the case in the game.

Whatever happened to the gun being lowered by default idea btw?

[Boshed 29]

Whatever happened to the gun being lowered by default idea btw?

 

That's in SA I beleive

[dgeesio 1034]

what is the lowered gun in standlaone bit i missed this ?

[Boshed 29]

what is the lowered gun in standlaone bit i missed this ?

 

I recall Dean mentioned it during a SA blog whereby by default the gun is 'lowered' and you have to press something for it to be 'ready' - sorry don't know the proper term.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

exactly boshed and what some cant understand there is no middle ground ;)

 

 

people want rules adding or to punish survival instincts in a survival game because they dont like it :lol:

 

Seriously dude, you really need to start reading posts, because I don't know how many more times I (or the various others who have corrected you) can say it:

 

There IS middle ground. Middle ground is the guys who are posting in THIS VERY THREAD saying 'I don't mind KoS in moderation, there's just a bit too much of it at the moment, and it's making the game less enjoyable.'

 

No-one here is trying to suggest that there should be rules against KoS, or that KoS players should be at a disadvantage compared to other players. What I'm (and I'm assuming the others here voicing similar opinions) asking is that the developers look into having a downside to playing as a one-man army. Heroes have downsides - they are often shot by the very people they're trying to help. 'Proper' Bandits have downsides - hold-ups are risky and often go wrong, and many heroes actively hunt bandits. Murderers don't have those downsides, because they want the PvP. They want to shoot at people as soon as they see them, they want to get into firefights with everyone they see, and if they die, they don't really lose much, because it's just a case of spending ten minutes finding a new gun and then back into the action.

 

You are right of course, but are neglecting the fact KoS is considered when making design decisions already, perhaps more so in SA, but this is already on their minds and has been for a long time.

 

After all the discussions about it (and there have been hundreds) there hasn't really been an idea that everyone/the majority have really 'backed' while keeping in mind the ethos of Dayz.

But that's the problem - if you're waiting for consensus before doing anything, nothing will ever get done. An example is the already-used .50 cal discussion. Arguments raged back and forth for months over whether they were overpowered or not, and it was turning into a real base breaker. Then one morning we all logged in to see that they'd been patched out. BAM. Just like that.

There was plenty of wailing, gnashing of teeth, cries of 'RUINED FOREVAR' and so on, but in a week or two it had died down, and now it's pretty much agreed that the game's better off without them. If we'd waited for the community to all agree on whether or not they should be in or out, we'd still be here come doomsday. But someone on the team made a bold decision, rode out the initial wave of hate and we're all better off for it.

Still, though - it's definitely reassuring to know that someone's actually looking at it, because as much as people wave the 'human nature' flag, there's a reason why we don't spend our time away from the keyboard just murdering everyone we don't like - because there are consequences for doing it, and the consequences outweigh the benefits of doing so. That's the bit that's missing in DayZ right now, and if they can just find that little piece of the jigsaw, they'll have nailed it. Fingers crossed!

Edited September 18, 2013 by Target Practice

[dgeesio 1034]

why should bandits be punished? yet heros not ?

 

its a game choice. people are trying to limit one style because its more popular guess what ! the very limiting to help none bandits is exactly the same :lol:

 

 

you leave as is people choose how they want to play. its down to human behaviour not the game mechanics. argue it all you want. trying to limit people to play your way will back fire and youll end up causing more people to rebell and do the opposite watch. gimping things down just to suit one style of play , yet again limiting is just a weak option .

 

 

 

i dont know a answer to the problem if it is a problem and i see to some it is but to others it isnt. seeing it is a very popular play style tells you that you should tread very carefully with how you progress with this cause people arnt daft and stupid game changing mechanics just to force people to adapt one style over another in a none ruled survival world would just be a joke.

 

how can you apply rules in a none governed world? are we now going to have police armies to bring bandits to justice .

[Boshed 29]

But that's the problem - if you're waiting for consensus before doing anything, nothing will ever get done. An example is the already-used .50 cal discussion. Arguments raged back and forth for months over whether they were overpowered or not, and it was turning into a real base breaker. Then one morning we all logged in to see that they'd been patched out. BAM. Just like that.

There was plenty of wailing, gnashing of teeth, cries of 'RUINED FOREVAR' and so on, but in a week or two it had died down, and now it's pretty much agreed that the game's better off without them. If we'd waited for the community to all agree on whether or not they should be in or out, we'd still be here come doomsday. But someone on the team made a bold decision, rode out the initial wave of hate and we're all better off for it.

 

Sure I get ya, but there still lies the issue, what to do about it.  That was an easy one, remove, modify or keep.  This is far more complicated 'issue' (not suggesting you are not aware of this) and after literally hundreds of ideas, none have 'stuck'.

 

Sorry I don't have anything more to add really, just wanted to point out that KoS is indeed something on the back of minds when implementing any design ideas.

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

Dgeesio, I'm sorry, but you're just repeating yourself over and over now without actually reading what I'm saying. I think we'll just agree to disagree, as I don't want this thread to fall into a spiral of KoS vs non-KoS gameplay. That's not what this is about.:)

 

Boshed, yeah, that's the problem here. It's not a binary 'in or out' issue, and whatever is done is going to somehow infringe on the way other, innocent, parties play the game. But that's part of the catch-22 of being a game designer for such an ambitious and wildly popular game - you're going to find yourself in these situations, and it's how you deal with them that separates the Day Zs from the War Zs. :p

[hoik 415]

IMO the answer could be some sort of 'global' or 'collective causality'. Try to make a system that has natural ('realistic') consequences for individual actions which effect the community as a whole - try not to make them good or bad, just logical.

 

eg: 

• High KOS = increased zombie population, but more loot spawned.
• Low KOS = decreased zombie population, but less loot spawned.

Logical, gives consequence to our actions, relates players lives to something tangible in game.

[dgeesio 1034]

it is though and you using your own bigotry to try and force people to play how you want !

 

im saying let people choose how they want to play .

 

you want to punish people or limit banditary to suit your own gameplay. why limit a gameplay style just because you dont agree with it ? totally biased. i understand fully what you mean and you just keep saying blah blah i dont want kos removing but why should it be adjusted because you think its not in your way of playing ? what about the people whos way of playing it is ? do they not have the same objection as you,

 

the whole thread is about kos you just labeled different to try and get responses on a dead subject that does turn into this silly debate about limiting kos mechanics because you dont play tat way. total bigotry and everyone who posts similar its always from there playstyle opinion.

 

im for choice not bandits only. both have places and gameplay just dont go limiting becasue you cant handle kos. dont be kos in first place.

 

you can see these kind of people in servers 24/7. theyll roll in elelctra go in shop stand ther for ten minutes picking up a box a matches. why did you kill me ! its because your the weak link easy target have gear maybe and seen as a push over. the playstyle you chose didnt help you because you lacked awareness of your surroundings and got killed.

 

thats got nothing to do with bandits and lowering gimps bandit playstyle just to make it easier for you to loot or survive is a falsehood.

 

part of the challenge and surviving dayz is how it is dont make it easier just because i die alot and i dont play as bandit because im friendly.

 

wake up ! its a zombie apocolpsye infected nightmare not bunny land .

Edited September 18, 2013 by dgeesio

[misho_p@hotmail.com 31]

Been reading this thread trough and first off I´d like to ask dgeesio, without actually trying to offend the person, to touch up his/hers english reading skills because it looks to me, as a 3rd person watching this discussion that you(dgeesio) do not at all understand what your counterpart is trying to tell you, or you simply choose to ignore it.

 

On to the real issue, yes KoS is a big problem, it´s not how the mod or the game were intended to be played I am sure of it. Ofcourse Dean meant for there to be banditry and murders in the mod but not to this degree and the reason to that is that the mod is to simple, without proper goals and rewards once you have the gear you need to survive(which you can find in under an hour).

 

I am certain some mechanics in the Standalone are there to prevent such an extended KoS mentality, such as the item damage but also the fact that there are no blood bags pre-filled with blood and that all blood is not universal, meaning you have to find a player with your type if you wish to transfuse, if they make it so that you can not take blood from dead people then that´s and incentive to make contact with strangers and team up in before raiding high risk areas in case you need blood quickly. Another mechanic is the lowered gun which can help players read the atmosphere better than currently where you don´t really know if the person next to you is thinking about doing something unexpected.

 

These things in combination with less real high end military loot and reduced ammo spawns should make people think twice about firing that one or two bullets which you have(as it should be) searched for for several hours. The game is to easy as it is and needs to be alot harder before people see the advantage of surviving in a group.

 

All this talk about not punishing murder is not fair, why shouldn´t the game punish murderers ? There are very few in real life who can kill a person and not suffer any consequence, be it by police in a civilized world or psychical in a savage one. "Heroes" are punished in their gameplay as to taking enormous risks for the sake of others and most of all for the sake of the game, they chose to be an active part in the solution instead of going with the flow of "it can´t be changed" or "it´s human nature", sure it is human nature for some to become savages and kill anything but so is (real world) human nature to suffer the consequences of that savagery.

 

Excuse my sentancebuilding as english is not my mothertongue either.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Misho

[Frytek 130]

Bleeeeeeeeeeeeh... another KOS discussion. People wont change. Neva eva. I say to encourage interactions, not do something against bandits, KoS , heroes. I smell a graveyard for this thread though. And dont change dayz into some melee zlombie fighting simulator. You would be eaten easily with max 2 zombies from dayz, in real life situation. Try to stop a charging maniac with a melee weapon other than 6 meter, macedonian pike. You cant.

And a short joke (hungry for beans)

Where goes a talban after stepping onto a mine?

Everywhere.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Frytek

[dgeesio 1034]

Been reading this thread trough and first off I´d like to ask dgeesio, without actually trying to offend the person, to touch up his/hers english reading skills because it looks to me, as a 3rd person watching this discussion that you(dgeesio) do not at all understand what your counterpart is trying to tell you, or you simply choose to ignore it.

 

On to the real issue, yes KoS is a big problem, it´s not how the mod or the game were intended to be played I am sure of it. Ofcourse Dean meant for there to be banditry and murders in the mod but not to this degree and the reason to that is that the mod is to simple, without proper goals and rewards once you have the gear you need to survive(which you can find in under an hour).

 

I am certain some mechanics in the Standalone are there to prevent such an extended KoS mentality, such as the item damage but also the fact that there are no blood bags pre-filled with blood and that all blood is not universal, meaning you have to find a player with your type if you wish to transfuse, if they make it so that you can not take blood from dead people then that´s and incentive to make contact with strangers and team up in before raiding high risk areas in case you need blood quickly. Another mechanic is the lowered gun which can help players read the atmosphere better than currently where you don´t really know if the person next to you is thinking about doing something unexpected.

 

These things in combination with less real high end military loot and reduced ammo spawns should make people think twice about firing that one or two bullets which you have(as it should be) searched for for several hours. The game is to easy as it is and needs to be alot harder before people see the advantage of surviving in a group.

 

All this talk about not punishing murder is not fair, why shouldn´t the game punish murderers ? There are very few in real life who can kill a person and not suffer any consequence, be it by police in a civilized world or psychical in a savage one. "Heroes" are punished in their gameplay as to taking enormous risks for the sake of others and most of all for the sake of the game, they chose to be an active part in the solution instead of going with the flow of "it can´t be changed" or "it´s human nature", sure it is human nature for some to become savages and kill anything but so is (real world) human nature to suffer the consequences of that savagery.

 

Excuse my sentancebuilding as english is not my mothertongue either.

because its not a real world enviroment or governed by any laws or groups so how can laws punishments be handed out in such lawless enviroments?

 

they cant. so basically to try and cover this up people who dont like bandits want them nerfed or consequences added to a enviroment not governed by human consequences. totally false.

 

 

if this is the road people are going to take youll slowly make the game as boring as collecting stamps because that is what the game will end up like just collecting objects and nothing else.

 

 

 

i think personally the bandits is realistic. people wouldnt take chances and alot giving danger would shoot first then ask questions later. its all hyperthetical but people are basing bandits and other things on how we are now the game isnt how we are now its in a terrifying zombie infected world. this is what some dont understand and will argue regardless.

 

im all for ideas if you want to try and balance but not by crippling bandits and fun just because thats not your playstyle. the thing is say guns are super rare youll still chop people with axe or baseball bats just the same. its just a different tool. so you want to limit me getting blood cause i killed another player why ? cause you collect items you chose you way unhindered yet because i chose bandit i must be punished ? how is that right?

 

it isnt !

 

murder bandits must be punished why ? why must it be punished ? cause its morally wrong ? not being fun zombies infected coming through windows chasing me 24/7 has changed my prospective a little :lol:

 

thing is bandits is nothing different in the real world anyway with animals i already said this weak will always be picked off by stronger survival orientated people . it maintains your way of survivng .

 

 

does it effect them hell yes ! but who cares its survival or is this game not about survival now ? are we just going to change the game mechanics to suit people who just want it easy ? its like taking a lions teeth out because hes a lion :rolleyes: its what a lion is its what he does .

 

only suggestion i can think of would be rewards for killing bandits like bounties based on how many killed maybe. this wouldnt change the game mechanics much but it may make people who want to stop prolific bandits group together for the good of the area or whatever and get gold or whatever to spend by other items.

 

only problem with that bandits would kill other bandits unless you waver gold bounties by being a bandit in first place. so there is no financial gain for killing people.

 

so for eg bandit in electro announcement is made bring bandit to justice recieve 10 gold 1 gold per kill of bandit for eg people then maybe meet go to area of said bandit to track down and either capture him alive maybe higher reward for people doing so or less bounty dead.

 

you have tie wraps added and this function could be done, announcements could be by speakers through out towns and maybe a message on screen scrolling through " Bandit dgeesio bounty reward on offer in electra " bounty starts or goto building in area to start bandit hunt . maybe took to old police station or killed in square in front of others who knows. better idea than most on here who just want gimped styles and actually creates gameplay and purpose instead of just nerf shit.

Edited September 18, 2013 by dgeesio