DayZero Thoughts

[Max Planck 7174]

Podagorks is an amazing mod so hats off to the Day Zero team!!!

 

Well, hats off to the guys who actually made Podagorsk too, right?

 

Note the date on this post: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?92144-FDF-Podagorsk&p=1519933&viewfull=1#post1519933

[fluxley 2228]

And hats off to the guys who actually made the dayz mod that the dayzero mod is based on.

[big_t 66]

And hats off to the guys who actually made the dayz mod that the dayzero mod is based on.

 

 

Nah not at all, thats been done to death and Rocket already has a legion of sausage riders for life. I'm grateful to the original Dayz team of course but this post is not about that.

 

It's about Day Zero and I think they put a lot of great effort in to the mod.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Big_T

[beatSTV 631]

meh

[DemonGroover 8836]

This thread reminds me of a mate of mine in the early nineties who loved the band "Faith no More" (very sad i know)

 

They released the song "Easy" and he was convinced they were musical geniuses until i pointed out that it was a cover of an old song by The Commodores (Lionel Ritchie). It didn't sound so cool then.

 

My point is DayZero and other mods owe a hell of a lot to the original mod and the mapmakers. Perhaps this debt should be made a bit clearer so people don't just assume they did it all themselves.

 

I'm not saying these guys haven't done good work - by all accounts DayZero is optimised very well and has some nice additions.   I am just dubious about permissions that were granted for certain things.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Hey. What?

 

 

Mike Patton is not impressed.

[The Jackall 55]

This thread reminds me of a mate of mine in the early nineties who loved the band "Faith no More" (very sad i know)

 

They released the song "Easy" and he was convinced they were musical geniuses until i pointed out that it was a cover of an old song by The Commodores (Lionel Ritchie). It didn't sound so cool then.

 

My point is DayZero and other mods owe a hell of a lot to the original mod and the mapmakers. Perhaps this debt should be made a bit clearer so people don't just assume they did it all themselves.

 

I'm not saying these guys haven't done good work - by all accounts DayZero is optimised very well and has some nice additions.   I am just dubious about permissions that were granted for certain things.

 

regardless..the game feels closer to something out of a box than vanilla did, and kudos to the developers for adding so much detail into the game. We know Dayz vanilla started it all and this is Dean's idea of a great game, but do you see updates for Dayz or anything close to what these guys manage to do? I personally dont give a fuck if they tweaked the engine or did something they weren't supposed to do. The point is they made something we were craving since Dayz was launched, they fixed the shit bugs that made us rage at the game and gave us eye candy which Arma2 lacked.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I guess that's what this sort of thing will always boil down to really then.

 

Some of us care about how or why some of these things are possible, others don't.

 

I'm not too bothered personally as long as the people that keep asking "Why have the DayZero devs been able to do something Dean and the community devs haven't been able to do for over year?" actually understand why that is.  If I was Razor I'd be going fekkin mental and screaming it from the rooftops but he's obviously a much more patient man than me and probably doesn't want to open the inevitable can of worms that he would by commenting on it.

 

Hopefully at least some people now understand that these changes have been made possible not because they are coding wizards but because they were willing to bend/break rules/laws that the official devs simply cannot.  As long as that's understood I'll be a happy bunny.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Fraggle

[The Jackall 55]

I guess that's what this sort of thing will always boil down to really then.

 

Some of us care about how or why some of these things are possible, others don't.

 

I'm not too bothered personally as long as the people that keep asking "Why have the DayZero devs been able to do something Dean and the community devs haven't been able to do for over year?" actually understand why that is.  If I was Razor I'd be going fekkin mental and screaming it from the rooftops but he's obviously a much more patient man than me and probably doesn't want to open the inevitable can of worms that he would by commenting on it.

 

Hopefully at least some people now understand that these changes have been made possible not because they are coding wizards but because they were willing to bend/break rules/laws that the official devs simply cannot.  As long as that's understood I'll be a happy bunny.

 

i would still like to know if Dean was sitting in BI when working on the mod why were they not allowed to edit the code like the Dayzero guys did? It doesn't make sense dude. If i recall Dean actually had comments where he said it was impossible. The things he said was impossible the Dayzero team got right.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

i would still like to know if Dean was sitting in BI when working on the mod why were they not allowed to edit the code like the Dayzero guys did? It doesn't make sense dude. If i recall Dean actually had comments where he said it was impossible. The things he said was impossible the Dayzero team got right.

Well dean did work on the mod in his spare time while working as a Junior designer at BIS (although he started the mod long before that), he's made many other mods/maps/vehicles and stuff over the years too.

 

He was in a very junior position, you can't just rock up to the CEO and ask them to change their engine, I'd imagine that many of the staff there mess around modding Arma in their spare time too, as I said before modding is a hobby for many coders.

 

Legally for him as a modder certain changes weren't possible, as I explained not everyone respects those rules/laws (especially when they smell money), surely you can understand that.

 

I'd argue that what he did was even better though.  He proved to them that his idea was so good that they agreed to give him his own project and fund it, hence the SA and full a access to the engine without the restrictions placed on him as a modder.

 

Kudos to him and BIS surely?

Edited September 6, 2013 by Fraggle

[The Jackall 55]

Well dean did work on the mod in his spare time while working as a Junior designer at BIS (although he started the mod long before that), he's made many other mods/maps/vehicles and stuff over the years too.

 

He was in a very junior position, you can't just rock up to the CEO and ask them to change their engine, I'd imagine that many of the staff there mess around modding Arma in their spare time too, as I said before modding is a hobby for many coders.

 

Legally for him as a modder certain changes weren't possible, as I explained not everyone respects those rules/laws (especially when they smell money), surely you can understand that.

 

I'd argue that what he did was even better though.  He proved to them that his idea was so good that they agreed to give him his own project and fund it, hence the SA and full a access to the engine without the restrictions placed on him as a modder.

 

Kudos to him and BIS surely?

 

yea Kudos to him and BIS dude. Sure hope the SA will run better and smoother than any of the mods. From what i have seen being done by the Dayzero guys, is that the Arma 2 engine is still next gen and can look very good if not amazing if tweaked correctly (running the game with X2 670 GTX's) :). This gives me great hope for the SA.

[tommes 331]

Hopefully at least some people now understand that these changes have been made possible not because they are coding wizards but because they were willing to bend/break rules/laws that the official devs simply cannot.  As long as that's understood I'll be a happy bunny.

 

My question was who makes these rules if not BIS?

Seems like it was technically not much of a problem to achieve some things.

[tommes 331]

Well dean did work on the mod in his spare time while working as a Junior designer at BIS (although he started the mod long before that), he's made many other mods/maps/vehicles and stuff over the years too.

 

He was in a very junior position, you can't just rock up to the CEO and ask them to change their engine, I'd imagine that many of the staff there mess around modding Arma in their spare time too, as I said before modding is a hobby for many coders.

 

Legally for him as a modder certain changes weren't possible, as I explained not everyone respects those rules/laws (especially when they smell money), surely you can understand that.

 

I'd argue that what he did was even better though.  He proved to them that his idea was so good that they agreed to give him his own project and fund it, hence the SA and full a access to the engine without the restrictions placed on him as a modder.

 

Kudos to him and BIS surely?

 

Well, obviously it was technically not a problem to change stuff for DayZero while not touching DayZ or Arma 2.

Going for a SA sure was the right thing to do, but quite obviously there was a lot to do for the mod as the community proved after sort of forcing them to do by themselves.

 

And you constantly bring up the money issue. I just don't see where the big money is in DayZero. That little donating for starter package thingy that only goes on for like half of the servers? How much money can you make like that you think?

[The Jackall 55]

Well, obviously it was technically not a problem to change stuff for DayZero while not touching DayZ or Arma 2.

Going for a SA sure was the right thing to do, but quite obviously there was a lot to do for the mod as the community proved after sort of forcing them to do by themselves.

 

And you constantly bring up the money issue. I just don't see where the big money is in DayZero. That little donating for starter package thingy that only goes on for like half of the servers? How much money can you make like that you think?

 

i have to agree. the american servers who give these package deals are fucking expensive, and i wont pay $1 towards it. I don't think the average player (under 18s) can afford them anyway. Now if you go look at the current servers, there are not that many players who do play in those reserved slots anyway. You might find one or two slots taken on some of those servers and most don't even have any in them. I think Fraggie is generalising, and he meant that they made money (even if it is a small amount) from something according to him, they shouldn't have made anything from.

Edited September 6, 2013 by The Jackall

[beatSTV 631]

I think Fraggie is generalising, and he meant that they made money (even if it is a small amount) from something according to him, they shouldn't have made anything from.

 

Donations with no incentives just to help with maintenance for website/servers/ts is fine the issues arise when you are offering benefits for donating regardless of what they are and also locking the server files so all traffic is diverted to just two websites.

[tommes 331]

Donations with no incentives just to help with maintenance for website/servers/ts is fine the issues arise when you are offering benefits for donating regardless of what they are and also locking the server files so all traffic is diverted to just two websites.

 

Seriously, they get a little crap to respawn with? Where's the big deal?

And what's with that traffic routing conspiracy theory? There's no ads on zombies.nu. Don't even know about the other.

Btw, traffic costs money as well.

 

As I see it those guys just don't want anybody to fuck around with their idea of the game. That might be hypocritical because they did the exact same thing but whatever. From a mere players perspective they do a good job. I don't need server files to be free but I need a decent player experience.

[The Jackall 55]

Seriously, they get a little crap to respawn with? Where's the big deal?

And what's with that traffic routing conspiracy theory? There's no ads on zombies.nu. Don't even know about the other.

Btw, traffic costs money as well.

 

As I see it those guys just don't want anybody to fuck around with their idea of the game. That might be hypocritical because they did the exact same thing but whatever. From a mere players perspective they do a good job. I don't need server files to be free but I need a decent player experience.

 

Fucking A

[m.cab 83]

...

I'm not too bothered personally as long as the people that keep asking "Why have the DayZero devs been able to do something Dean and the community devs haven't been able to do for over year?" actually understand why that is.  If I was Razor I'd be going fekkin mental and screaming it from the rooftops but he's obviously a much more patient man than me and probably doesn't want to open the inevitable can of worms that he would by commenting on it.

 

Hopefully at least some people now understand that these changes have been made possible not because they are coding wizards but because they were willing to bend/break rules/laws that the official devs simply cannot.  As long as that's understood I'll be a happy bunny.

 

No, i dont understand. What are those rules/laws they bend, or break? Can you specify?

[Avallanche 121]

No, i dont understand. What are those rules/laws they bend, or break? Can you specify?

 

I think you should read the thread all over again. 

[m.cab 83]

I think you should read the thread all over again. 

 

Yeah did that, thanks. I wrote that post when i was a little drunk... ;)

 

Dont drink and drive. Dont drink and write. :facepalm:

[Avallanche 121]

Yeah did that, thanks. I wrote that post when i was a little drunk... ;)

 

Dont drink and drive. Dont drink and write. :facepalm:

 

lol to that... :)

 

Back on topic:

 

 

Well, obviously it was technically not a problem to change stuff for DayZero while not touching DayZ or Arma 2.

Going for a SA sure was the right thing to do, but quite obviously there was a lot to do for the mod as the community proved after sort of forcing them to do by themselves.

 

As I see, it's not about proving something.

Is it possible tweak the engine/codes/stuffidontunderstand? Clearly yes. So far, they seem to be doing something like that with awesome results.

Is it legal/ethical/correct to do that (considering law and modding community ethics)? No it's not. 

 

When you say :

 

My question was who makes these rules if not BIS?

Seems like it was technically not much of a problem to achieve some things.

 

It doesn't really matters who makes these rules. They still rules. And all the modders should follow the rules.

BIS spent lots of money developing their engine, and they have the legal rights to establish the rules of what it can and what it can't be done in regards to modding their game. And we all know, they are one of the most modding friendly studio around.

 

Despite you and me having an awesome gaming experience, it does not justify breaking the rules.

Now IF (and that's a big if) Dayzero team did some ilegal modding and lock the files so it remains in secret, no one should defend them.

[Jex 1104]

I donated to BMRF - I got a skin and that was it but donated more because I play almost exclusively on their servers and they always seem to have admins on their IRC channel. If anyone thinks they're making money here I seriously doubt it and it doesn't need to cost much to host your own servers either.