First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[DemonGroover 8836]

Wow 91 pages on this topic. Amazing since the solution already exists with server options (I know it has been said, but perhaps it needs to be said in all caps). 

 

I get the reason people who prefer 1st person are mad, their option is not popular. There is a reason most servers have 3rd person enabled. I know it is easy to exploit, I am perfectly aware that it can be cheap, and I am also aware that it is harder to play in 1st person. Want to know something else, I could care less about every single argument you make if it boils down to taking away choice. If you are arguing that people should give it a shot more power to you, I enjoy 1st person DayZ servers from time to time. If you are just mad that more people do not populate 1st person only servers and your solution to your self involved problem is forcing a perspective on others I say tough titties. 

 

The day 1st person servers are the most popular is the day I can be bothered to give two flying %#$s about the issue, until that day rage on because no matter how much forum bitching goes on it will never change that simple fact. 

 

Edit: Guess I made it 92 pages of forum rage, score one for the little guy. 

 

We should be beyond this now.

 

90 pages of posts just like this.  We get you want things to stay the same but Rocket himself has stated he wants to tighten up on some of the exploitable features of 3rd person - not get rid of it.

 

The discussion should have moved on by now and solutions and modifications should be what we are talking about, not rehashing the same old points over and over again.

 

I am beyond saying 3rd should be removed. Too many people like yourself want it to remain so i am sure the devs will keep it in one form or another.  However, it will be changed somewhat. 

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Yep, 92 pages. Did you read any of it?

 

Watched the video when it was posted and read about 9 pages, in all fairness it was really long and really stupid, I avoided the conversation like the plague to tell you the truth. Just a little rant, we can all have them sometimes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Except Rocket says it pretty much is getting changed in favor of a mix of the two?

 

I am nothing but adaptable and really would not mind some of the exploitable abilities of third person being removed. But I was talking about why people who hate third person are upset about it even being a server option. They are pissed off that they have lost so horribly in the marketplace of ideas and resort to banning an option instead of allowing choice. I get every argument against third person, still doesn't mean I will spend the majority of my time in first person servers. 

 

I just tossed a little gas on the flames, I really do not try to do it often. 

Edited September 5, 2013 by Zombie Jesus

[Vicco 123]

You may not remember, but way back in spring of 2012 there was a series of YouTube videos called The Days Ahead. Some people might even say that they started the whole DayZ frenzy. If you listen really close you might recognize the voice of the guy playing alongside CHKilroy. Yes that's right, its the same guy whose video started this whole thread.

Also, since when is good game design synonymous with what streamers like?

Wasn't talking about streamers. Talking about gamers. Seldom even watch streamers. Don't like their faces plastered on the screen. Terrible immersion. :) 

Aside from that I've watched many, many YT vids. It's what got me interested in DayZ.

Early ones too.  Most were 3P. 

Might well be why I find 3P perfectly natural, though I've also played 1P.

But DayZ has had many lives in a short time.

Good vids in 1P are pretty rare.  A couple guys here have made some decent ones.  Applejax and KOS.

Of course that's all personal opinion.  And there might be others.

Seems most of the best players/videographers prefer 3P.  Even though they are expert first-person shooters in other games.

Even good players making bad vids are nearly always using 3P. 

The only reasons I can think of vidmakers using 3P is it makes DayZ vids easier on the eyes,  or they just like it.

As far as "game design" what works is what works.  YT vids and server populations are the best measures I've seen.

We'll always argue about it.  It's all good.

 

 

 

[tommes 331]

Having characters locked to either 3dp or FPV servers upon creation, or having two seperate hives, WILL stop FPV players being "corner-peeked".

 

If you play solely in FPV-only servers, you are, by definition, voluntarily seperate from 3dp players. The schism exists already, so the playerbase cannot become "split".

 

And as already explained that causes trouble when having a mixed crowd. Right now the community isn't acutally split because the FPVers give in most of the time. One of the reasons they are not happy.

[tommes 331]

I am nothing but adaptable and really would not mind some of the exploitable abilities of third person being removed. But I was talking about why people who hate third person are upset about it even being a server option. They are pissed off that they have lost so horribly in the marketplace of ideas and resort to banning an option instead of allowing choice. I get every argument against third person, still doesn't mean I will spend the majority of my time in first person servers. 

 

I just tossed a little gas on the flames, I really do not try to do it often. 

 

 

The exploits of TPV probably can't be fixed without making it undesireably even for enthusiasts.

 

Losing in the market share means not much choice left for us.

 

If you'd really get the arguments against TPV you should at least feel ashamed every time you use the Enter key.

[Ken Bean 175]

If anybody is wondering why there is 90 pages of argument it is because of your terrible arguments which we can't move beyond.

Because what ever we do, no one is able to finally break through your third wall or something, guys.

PvP is the thing what matters you everything else, the thrill of the 1st person, also can be experienced right now, everywhere, even on thrird person server. Why? Because that server deliver both.

PvP, the "cheating" and "exploit" of the 3rd person view is the key argument and yet there are 1st person only server out there, which are empty most of the time. Instead you demand to force everyone to "your way" while you guys are playing 3rd person server yourself. Even though it makes no sense, I can understand you guys. The 1st person only is just not the holy grail. Yet, you don't want to see it.

So yes, there's a 90+ pages of argument, most of them full of "first person is hardcore, first person is the shiz, third person player are fat and lazy" and so on. And nope, I didn't post here from the start. Just in the recent days. Now, with you extremely "fair" argumentation stile, you wanna toss the weirdness of this thread to me, right? Kind of try to blame your mistery to me?

 

3) You are trying to argue in favor of showing TPV gameplay using a video that isn't exactlly third person OR proper or gameplay BUT is a cinematic and cheopgrahped video . If you can't see the problem with using a video that's content, style and intent is entirely different to what is being discussed it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to call that stupid thing to use to illustrate your viewpoint.

Well basically third person view is third person view, even if it gets modified a bit. The clip has been shot in 3rd person. It looks awesome and thats I tried to point out. I thought it's not too difficult to understand such simple things. Yes, you can choreogrape something in 3rd person and even film it and its a nice emotional fetch. Have you noticed how real and truly believable those szenes appear? That's a nice side effect, isn't it?

 

So you decided that all this things are invalid. I already expected this. That's how you're doing all the time here.

 

 

4) This was never even in contention. TPV is astheticlly pleasing in some circumstances and can help do stuff like see your character. Then we balance these pros against the flaws and the flaws far outweight the pros. Thats why compromise is coming. Look forward to it.

 

 

Oh look, he even agrees. Doesn't prevent him from making it ridiculous be in fact he actually agree. He just didn't want to accept the point. Just "destroying it", right after that comming up with it as it would be your own. So "WE" (You?) balanced these "pros against the flaws (constantly saying pros are bullshit and 1st person is the only way to go). Awesome, you really understood how fair discussions work. What you guys are doing basically is "I don't value any of your points, all you say is weak, lazy, untrue - here comes the fact that 1st person is the only thing".

 

I really tried to get through your 3rd wall but I see, everything I did was to be sought of in your "we". All my arguments will be considered to be not valid and then used by yourself against me. Awesome!

 

 

And the entire point of this topic is pretty much aimed at demonstrating the flaws of the TPV... Most of this thread is various forms of denial by proponents and advocates of TPV...so yeah...

 

 

Purpose and outcome of the discussion already has be set, right? Btw, I've seen no one who denies that 1st person fanatics may have a problem with the "extremely unfair" 3rd person. The point is not very difficult to understand. I for myself already noticed that you put the PvP-Aspect over everything else. What folks is trying you to say is that this is not everything. Camping around a corner is nasty but not the entire game. We also learned is that there is many folks that shoots you anyway, if they are camping around a corner or not. Its just you wear a weapon or may have beans, so you die anyway.

 

Btw, thats why I tried to point out that everyone on a third person enabled server plays under the same rules and also can use the thitrd person. So all circumstances are perfectly fair. If you dont want to use the 3rd person, then playing on already existing 1st person only server should be your choice number one, or not?

Edited September 5, 2013 by Ken Bean

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

@ tommes

I don't think anyone has to "give in".

The phrase sounds a wee bit too "woe is me" for the circumstances. I've always felt reasonably well catered for when I'm looking for merc, blacklist servers. (I'm not into whitelisting. I tend to hop around when I'm lonewolfing)

 

There ARE a few exceptions. Maybe a particular mod I fancied the look of has only 3dp servers, for example.

Since I usually play 3dp servers when I'm with buddies (that part's right. If a friend won't play FPV, I'll play 3dp), if I'm in the mood, it's "when in Rome". If I'm not feeling it, I'll find another game.

 

The thing is. SA will be pure vanilla.

There's no likelyhood that we're going to see all the variation in game-settings short of 3dp on or off.

Choosing a server is literally as easy as it sounds. I don't see all the fuss.

Same as where others see "exploits", "cheats" and "crutches", I just see another, entirely optional side of the game (and entirely avoidable, should you wish it)

 

If anything, 3dp players should be the ones complaining about "corner-peeking" etc. Because if you play on a merc/expert server it will NEVER happen to you.

[tommes 331]

Choosing a server is literally as easy as it sounds. I don't see all the fuss.

 

I don't know any other game where choosing a server is that hard as in DayZ.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Minecraft, maybe?

 

When the admins have made their choices, player's choice is the easiest to make.

"Play or Not?"

[tommes 331]

Well, dumb admins attract dumb players and the other way round. Dumb players on dumb servers will produce more of dumb because new players learning to play on dumb servers with dumb players will bound to be dumb too and there goes the neighborhood. There was a reason admin power was very limited in the beginning of DayZ. And choice doesn't help if there's only foul apples.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

You really shouldn't be trying to suggest you are more intelligent than anyone else.

 

You had to be told that there's an entire section of the forums specifically for finding players/servers, after you've been a member here for over a year.

You literally asked the question "Who looks for players on message boards?" as if everyone else was an idiot.

[tommes 331]

You really shouldn't be trying to suggest you are more intelligent than anyone else.

 

You had to be told that there's an entire section of the forums specifically for finding players/servers, after you've been a member here for over a year.

You literally asked the question "Who looks for players on message boards?" as if everyone else was an idiot.

 

I don't suggest anything. I say it outright. And I've never used a message board to find servers. I use server browsers  for that. I think that's more intelligent.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I'm sure you do. 

Just don't be shocked if I choose not to trust your judgement on that. :lol:

[tommes 331]

I'm sure you do. 

Just don't be shocked if I choose not to trust your judgement on that. :lol:

 

Are you suggesting you are more intelligent than me?

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I'd suggest you think before you speak, but we'd be here all day.

[tommes 331]

Now you suggest I didn't. You're suggesting a lot. I feel you could be better at that compared to the amount of suggesting you do.

Anything on topic you would suggest? I'm not the topic by the way.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I made my point(s) perfectly clear.

If you didn't understand it, you can go back a page and practice reading.

 

EDIT:

Afore ye seek to strike again, AVAST!

Point that razor-sharp wit at another swashbuckler. 

Edited September 5, 2013 by Chabowski

[terrvik 2409]

I miss the time when there was some actual discussion in this thread.

[tommes 331]

Do you think we can make it to page 100? Don't want to call it a day before we reach 3 digits. Where's Ken Bean when we need him?

[dallas 5195]

People play on third person servers, because they freely choose to. 

People abandon first person servers, because they freely choose to.

 

I fear Rocket will have break third person, just like he attempted to remove humanity, before he realize that a feature isn't necessarily broken, just because people redefines it as cheating. The solution has existed in Real Virtuality since 2001, game/difficulty/disable third person view. Why is it first person players get to dictate, how other people run their servers? Your constant polling demonstrates how easily you could fill up all the first person servers you want to, why don't you want to?

 

Dslycsi built a solid community around his difficulty preference, I don't think ShackTac has any problems filling their servers and if I ever joined these servers, I'd naturally accept their server settings. Sure I could question them, but if I'd make a nuisance out of my query, I'd expect I'd get swiftly told to free up the communication's channels or get myself kicked off the server.

 

Seriously you guys need to start joining first person servers, it's not like I join a first person server and complain about it. I just don't play there as much, maybe if you followed my shining example, this moot discussion would stay moot.

 

Moot.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Dallas

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I think any changes Rocket makes, he does so with the best of intentions.

There's no harm in seeing what comes out of any "fixes", at least.

Early days yet, mind.

[Wayze 549]

*cough* Zombie Infection *cough*

You will see, some day I will invent the first zombie virus ever and you will be the patient zero! >:(

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Deal.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

People play on third person servers, because they freely choose to. 

People abandon first person servers, because they freely choose to.

 

I fear Rocket will have break third person, just like he attempted to remove humanity, before he realize that a feature isn't necessarily broken, just because people redefines it as cheating. The solution has existed in Real Virtuality since 2001, game/difficulty/disable third person view. Why is it first person players get to dictate, how other people run their servers? Your constant polling demonstrates how easily you could fill up all the first person servers you want to, why don't you want to?

 

Dslycsi built a solid community around his difficulty preference, I don't think ShackTac has any problems filling their servers and if I ever joined these servers, I'd naturally accept their server settings. Sure I could question them, but if I'd make a nuisance out of my query, I'd expect I'd get swiftly told to free up the communication's channels or get myself kicked off the server.

 

Seriously you guys need to start joining first person servers, it's not like I join a first person server and complain about it. I just don't play there as much, maybe if you followed my shining example, this moot discussion would stay moot.

 

Moot.

You're missing one important point though.

 

Arma is a game based around sub-communities (ShackTac for example).  That is Arma's strength.  A small community can set up the game how they like to play and off they go.

 

DayZ's strength will lie in the fact that it is a global community, all playing in the same world, all able to trade, meet and so on across multiple servers, countries and time-zones.  As soon as you start to split that community up you weaken it and the premise of the game as we've seen with the private hives over the last year.

 

Comparing the 2 games is pointless, they're just too different.

 

That's why I'd like to see the devs basically dictate one standardised experience.  Even if it means I have to compromise what I'd ideally like to see, which I already have.  It's for the better of the game in the long-run.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Fraggle

[terrvik 2409]

I would also add that with two different perspectives Team Rocket would have to design future features that works both in FPV and TPV, which probably is difficult. One standard that everyone follows is probably better.