First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[RooBurger 285]

Well yeah, it makes third person undesirable. Great if thats your goal... but why not just remove it?

 

It only makes third person undesirable if you're using it to see around corners, it doesn't change anything about the view of the person using it. Just makes the camera visible to other players.

 

The problems with it are purely aesthetic. Even though it's already there in the game, floating above everyone's heads, seeing it might break immersion. My opinion is that the invisible camera already breaks immersion, making it visible doesn't change anything about immersion for me.

 

I'd definitely rather just remove it, but many people have said they want to see their character or watch themselves while travelling. I say well sure, as long as everyone else can see every manifestation of your character as well.

Edited September 3, 2013 by RooBurger

[Heiduk 265]

My floating orb solution did both, but nobody liked it.

I liked it, but slightly less that giving Zeds 3rd person.

[IncognitoNico 71]

I think I have a solution.

If the camera was placed just behind the players head or really close to the character, it wouldnt be so exploitable. Or you could only look forward and up with 3rd person. If you would freelook left, right, or down while in 3rd, you would get a view from characters eyes.

That is the only real way to fix the exploits, but then it would be better to use first person view cause it is the same thing without a head blocking you view

 

Most people that play DayZ, probably play other FPS games, so I call BS on the "motion sickness on 1st person thing" and if you really get that legit, then there is a slider that reduces the head bobbing, the only real excuse now to keep 3rd person is to see your new clothes or your new backpack, you now have a character model on the inventory menu, so your argument is invalid.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

It's interesting to see how much this topic has evolved.   Blocking a huge portion of the screen with the character and no freelook in third...  :|

[dsi24 227]

It's interesting to see how much this topic has evolved.   Blocking a huge portion of the screen with the character and no freelook in third...   :|

Cool, so what are your solutions to fix third person's exploits?

[IncognitoNico 71]

Cool, so what are your solutions to fix third person's exploits?

Removing 3rd person or turning 3rd person into a 3rd person with a giant head in the middle of the screen apparently 

[dsi24 227]

Removing 3rd person or turning 3rd person into a 3rd person with a giant head in the middle of the screen apparently 

Well there is only so much you can do with an inherently broken game mechanic. It's interesting to see what people can dream up though. They usually keep what they really use it for safe from removal and you can see a lot about how they play that way.

[aeinola 25]

I dont care if they want to fix 3rd person or not. Just an idea for the "head blocking all the view" if you move the camera behind the head: make the head transparent?

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

Cool, so what are your solutions to fix third person's exploits?

 

you go play on FPV servers..

 

fixed.

 

/endthread

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Cool, so what are your solutions to fix third person's exploits?

 

I've offered several way back many pages ago and I also do not consider the proper use of the third person camera an "exploit".  

[IncognitoNico 71]

I dont care if they want to fix 3rd person or not. Just an idea for the "head blocking all the view" if you move the camera behind the head: make the head transparent?

Then what would be the point of 3rd person?

[RooBurger 285]

Then what would be the point of 3rd person?

 

He doesn't mean 100% transparent.

[IncognitoNico 71]

He doesn't mean 100% transparent.

But still, what would be the point of that, if now you get such a low field of view increase, then that would be even more pointless, so it's would be first person view with a not 100% transparent torso in the middle of the screen, if it's not transparent at all then it would give you less FOV than first person view, maybe more peripheral view, but if you have a torso in the middle of the screen you can barely tell what directly in front of you, and a kinda transparent torso would help too much, cause it would make it hard to spot things while trying to look though your torso so it would be better being on first person view.

 

 

 

you go play on FPV servers..

 

fixed.

 

/endthread

 

Give me 3 reasons to keep 3rd person and I'll change my mind about it's uselessness and stop thinking it's just a tool to make the game easier, and I want good reasons, not like oh, some people get motion sick on first person, because those are the kinds of people that aren't clever enough to look at the game settings and see that you can turn the head bobbing off

Edited September 3, 2013 by IncognitoNico

[Ken Bean 175]

Give me 3 reasons to keep 3rd person and I'll change my mind about it's uselessness and stop thinking it's just a tool to make the game easier, and I want good reasons, not like oh, some people get motion sick on first person, because those are the kinds of people that aren't clever enough to look at the game settings and see that you can turn the head bobbing off

 

- player-player interaction

- encourages role playing

- tactical overview, no tunnel vision

- reflects natural self and souround awareness

- no desorientation in buildings like with 1st person

 

This and more already has been said.

 

And last but not least, given that allmost everyone is playing on 3rd person server (even those who complain about), people seems to like it.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Ken Bean

[IncognitoNico 71]

- player-player interaction

- encourages role playing

- tactical overview, no tunnel vision

- reflects natural self and souround awareness

 

And more have already been said.

 

Uh, and given that allmost everyone is playing on 3rd person server (even those who complain about), people seems to like it.

How does third person encourage player interaction? or role playing?

 

Did you see the video in the OP? the FOV you get in 3r person view is not much more than first person, and the tactical overview you get in 3rd person is not in any way realistic, if you want to know what around a corner you should need to peek it, not just stand near the corner and look with 3rd person.

 

You do have a point on the last one, but I seriously don't get how the other ones are in any way better than first person, maybe you do get a tactical overview with 3rd person, but you can have as much situational awareness on first person camera, if you are any kind of "good" in any fps it's not to hard to be aware of the situations you are in.

 

Almost everyone seems to play on 3rd person servers because a lot of people take the easy way and just use 3rd person, leaving not a lot of 1st person only servers, and for some (like myself) leaving no 1st person only servers close enough to get less than 300 ping, I use 1st person only because I just don't like 3rd person, and I always find myself at a disadvantage because everybody peeks corner without exposing themselves

 

I don't see any of you reason having any advantage over 1st person and in fact 3rd person takes away from the immersion which is not what rocket intended at first, in fact, DayZ servers at the beggining were 1st person only

Edited September 3, 2013 by IncognitoNico

[Ken Bean 175]

If the FOV is the same, doesn't matter, since the viewpoint is different. Same FOV, another view. ;)

I know, for FOV-fixed folks this is hard to understand, but the different viewpoint is what the 3rd person makes so a valuable feature of the game.

If you don't want to let the points count, that's your decission. Otherwise they are valid.

 

DayZ is more than a shooter, it is a survival game which also implies role playing. What sense does it make to have all the features, functions and items in the game if you never see it on your character? It has been said a billion times and it actually makes sense. There are 1st person only server available, just join them and all is fine, isn't it?

 

If you want to understand why the 3rd person view encourages and enriches player-player interactions, read former post which has been made. It has all been explained.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Wayze 549]

If the FOV is the same, doesn't matter, since the viewpoint is different. Same FOV, another view. ;)

I know, for FOV-fixed folks this is hard to understand, but the different viewpoint is what the 3rd person makes so a valuable feature of the game.

If you don't want to let the points count, that's your decission. Otherwise they are valid.

What point? You mean the point that the view is totally unrealistic and creates core exploit elements? Sure, that point counts for us.

[Ken Bean 175]

What point? You mean the point that the view is totally unrealistic and creates core exploit elements? Sure, that point counts for us.

 

So you read the whole thread without getting anything? I know, you just don't want to understand.

[Wayze 549]

So you read the whole thread without getting anything? I know, you just don't want to understand.

You know, that is called an opinion. I don't have to change it just because some people like third person. I don't like it and many other don't like it either, but probably everyone knows that third person is an exploit machine. I think most people play it because the first person in DayZ is quite difficult.

[Mos1ey 6301]

So you read the whole thread without getting anything? I know, you just don't want to understand.

 

I don't think it really has anything to do with him not wanting to understand. Half of your 'points' are invalid, the other half are also reasons why 3DP is considered to be a bad thing by a lot of people.

 

- player-player interaction

- encourages role playing

- tactical overview, no tunnel vision

- reflects natural self and souround awareness

- no desorientation in buildings like with 1st person

 

-How?

-How? If anything surely being 'in' your character in 1DP encourages RP.

-That's incredibly 'unrealistic', considered an exploit by many and the main reason that people are campaigning against 3DP.

-A semi-valid point although I find that increasing my FoV, bringing more of the player model into view gives me the same effect while in 1DP view. I play with the default FoV but have toggle zoom out bound to middle mouse and that works great for me.

-I don't find myself disorientated in buildings when using 1DP view. I do find my weapon clipping with doorways and inhibiting my movement annoying, but that's unaviodable, even in 3DP, and being fixed in the next patch.

Edited September 3, 2013 by mZLY

[aeinola 25]

1st person fan boys: you should go populate 1st person servers and stop complain about 3rd person.

Simple as that... you guys sound like a cult.

[Ken Bean 175]

I really don't get why it cant be handled like this:

 

- 4 difficulty settings

- last difficulty "Expert" is 1st person only has its own hive

- difficulty "Veteran" has its own hive and 3rd person enabled, maybe a little tweaked

- difficulties normal and easy also have an own hive, which they share

 

So you guys still can call yourself hardcore, still have 1st person view only and hopefully stop camping on verteran server and exploiting the hell out of the 3rd person.

 

There are many advantages, everyone gets what they want and it's no longer possible to farm easy modes for weapons to get full geared on veteran or expert server.

 

Let's do it like this, everyone gets happy and is dancing in the steets.

Doesn't sounds good?

Edited September 3, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Wayze 549]

I really don't get why it cant be handled like this:

 

- 4 difficulty settings

- last difficulty "Expert" is 1st person only has its own hive

- difficulty "Veteran" has its own hive and 3rd person enabled, maybe a little tweaked

- difficulties normal and easy also have an own hive, which they share

 

So you guys still can call yourself hardcore, still have 1st person view only and hopefully stop camping on verteran server and exploiting the hell out of the 3rd person.

 

There are many advantages, everyone gets what they want and it's no longer possible to farm easy modes for weapons to get full geared on veteran or expert server.

 

Let's do it like this, everyone gets happy and is dancing in the steets.

Doesn't sounds good?

The world is not as simple as you think. If it would be, we all would be playing first person a long time ago.

[Ken Bean 175]

The world is not as simple as you think. If it would be, we all would be playing first person a long time ago.

 

 

Doesn't really sounds convincing and I knew that the world wasn't perfect. But mind, 3 hives, 4 difficulties, dev-team has perfect control over gear and drop rates. You could call yourself hardcore, given you actually play on expert-difficulty. If everyone would play in 1st person only, and if 1st person only whould be hardcore, wouldn't be everyone hardcore? You'd need to give yourself a new strange sounding title, like hardcore elite, which everyone would at least smile about.

 

Nah, why not making it this way?

 

I really don't get why it cant be handled like this:

- 4 difficulty settings

- last difficulty "Expert" is 1st person only has its own hive

- difficulty "Veteran" has its own hive and 3rd person enabled, maybe a little tweaked

- difficulties normal and easy also have an own hive, which they share

So you guys still can call yourself hardcore, still have 1st person view only and hopefully stop camping on verteran server and exploiting the hell out of the 3rd person.

There are many advantages, everyone gets what they want and it's no longer possible to farm easy modes for weapons to get full geared on veteran or expert server.

Let's do it like this, everyone gets happy and is dancing in the steets.

Doesn't sounds good?

World's not perfect, neither we are. There musst be room for failure. And some features should be spared out for the right difficulty in the perfect moment.

And please don't complain about empty expert server. Not everyone can be an expert. Expect life to be different there. If you have mates which don't want to play on expert server, then be it, you can decide if you play there or not. But there only is one hardcore character.

Edit

And if you change the difficulty, like going back to veteran servert, the expert char will die.

This will prefent folks from claiming to be expert/hardcore or whatever and camping the whole day on veteran server.

What happens if your mate doesn't want that 1st person only thing anyway? He then stops playing entirely? What have you accomplished in that situation? Driven your friend away?

Edited September 3, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Wayze 549]

What happens if your mate doesn't want that 1st person only thing anyway? He then stops playing entirely? What have you accomplished in that situation? Driven your friend away?

No, my friend would play the game and realise that it is a much more immersive and just better expirience. He woudl enjoy the game way more than he actually thought he could. ;)