First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Ken Bean 175]

Wow Ken, another fine example of your repeating the same crap over and over. Why not just address the point he was making about third person removing some of the tension. Or do you disagree that being able to see more around you removes some of the unknown? I'm sure you'll entertain us with another long winded avoiding the issue response.

Y

Just as you do and allow me to add that you have a strange sense of crap.

Bcause 3rd person does not remove "some of the tension".

It actually adds to the unknown, like fraggle said btw here:

No, the problem is that currently the way 3rd person can be used is detrimental to gameplay, for EVERYONE. That's not my opinion on play-styles or which cam I prefer using, just a sensible observation which nobody has really countered yet.

Dallas, you're an intelligent guy and I know you've played Arma for many years (since OFP?) and also DayZ for a very long time the same as I have. Please explain to me as best you can how having every rooftop, window (of which there are many more in the SA), wall, large rock or any other type of cover as a potential point for a player to literally sit behind <snip because of not true> while observing his/her surroundings <snip for not being true> is not detrimental to gameplay?

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

There's a HUGE difference between the unknown and the unknowable.

Edited August 29, 2013 by bad_mojo

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

 

 

This is how 3rd person players do it. They just fly over the forrest looking for tents. This is exploit! Try to look for tents flying like in 2nd picture and let your gunner on 3rd picture help you.

I beg you. Please, do not say 2nd picture is from Huey and 3rd from Russian so it is impossible to do that, since this is just an example.

[Ken Bean 175]

 

 

This is how 3rd person players do it. They just fly over the forrest looking for tents. This is exploit! Try to look for tents flying like in 2nd picture and let your gunner on 3rd picture help you.

I beg you. Please, do not say 2nd picture is from Huey and 3rd from Russian so it is impossible to do that, since this is just an example.

 

Flying around with a helicopter is supposed to provide a better overview. If you turn your head to the side window you can see pretty good. Just give a try at home and move your head close to the window. Mabe got to a higher floor. You can see pretty good, I suppose. At least making you half blind is not really the way to go imho.

 

 

 

 

There's a HUGE difference between the unknown and the unknowable.

 

Doesn't really help any further. I could have used the word "dangerous" insead of "unknown". What then?

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[RedNome 443]

Yeah but limit free look to 1st only.

 

Free look is exploited in 3rd by "bending" it over and around obstacles. 

 

I know that Demon, but being able to free look in third as you are running through the country side is one of the best features of this engine and one I would absolutely hate to be removed from the game.

 

A better solution to the exploits will need to be discovered for me, I am fully aware of them and agree they need to be addressed, I just think this would be too radical a change to one of the best parts of third person.

[RedNome 443]

this guy is serious or make joke? :huh:

 

3rd person is best feature??? :lol:

 

better like bullets part of gravity feature?

better like arma 3 stance system for lean and hide behind rock?

better like new realism swim system?

 

 

this guy need to think long what he look for in some game if view of character ass is #1 feature for him :blush:

 

If you are incapable of addressing the actual point I made rather than what you think I said please refrain from quoting me, thanks.

[Ken Bean 175]

I know that Demon, but being able to free look in third as you are running through the country side is one of the best features of this engine and one I would absolutely hate to be removed from the game.

 

A better solution to the exploits will need to be discovered for me, I am fully aware of them and agree they need to be addressed, I just think this would be too radical a change to one of the best parts of third person.

 

Yep, absolutely agree. I have the suspicion that they sabotage or handicap the third person in a way that it also loses its legit benefits.

 

And some in this thread are either blind or just don't want to see how mutch 3rd person adds to the game and how much it would lose if you turn it into a shooter.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

Flying around with a helicopter is supposed to provide a better overview. If you turn your head to the side window you can see pretty good. Just give a try at home and move your head close to the window. Mabe got to a higher floor. You can see pretty good, I suppose. At least making you half blind is not really the way to go imho.

 

I agree w/ you Ken Bean. Also, when flying in 1st person view, you can see more than walking or driving around in 1st person view. But still it is not like flying in 3rd person view, w/ 40 SPD and 100 ALT where you can see everything and that is exploit. In 1st you need to look around, through the windows, cooperate with gunner and so on. That is how it should work. And it does work w/ 1st person only.

[SmashT 10907]

I know that Demon, but being able to free look in third as you are running through the country side is one of the best features of this engine and one I would absolutely hate to be removed from the game.

 

A better solution to the exploits will need to be discovered for me, I am fully aware of them and agree they need to be addressed, I just think this would be too radical a change to one of the best parts of third person.

 

Fair point, I think the context sensitive approach solves this better. If you are prone, crouch or standing still, pull the camera in either very close or all the way to first person. If you are running/sprinting etc it pulls back into third person. Walk into one of those small industrial shacks in third person in the mod and you'll get a feel for it as you go through the doorway the camera automatically adjusts. It's pretty fluid.

Edited August 29, 2013 by SmashT

[Ken Bean 175]

 

 

This is how 3rd person players do it. They just fly over the forrest looking for tents. This is exploit! Try to look for tents flying like in 2nd picture and let your gunner on 3rd picture help you.

I beg you. Please, do not say 2nd picture is from Huey and 3rd from Russian so it is impossible to do that, since this is just an example.

 

Well they could disable the 3rd person if is someone is sitting in a heli. I'm not saying "cool" but it would be no too big letdown.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Y

Just as you do and allow me to add that you have a strange sense of crap.

Bcause 3rd person does not remove "some of the tension".

It actually adds to the unknown, like fraggle said btw here:

Errr, all you did was quoted a question I asked (and edited it).....

 

How about actually answering it instead?

[Ken Bean 175]

Fair point, I think the context sensitive approach solves this better. If you are prone, crouch or standing still, pull the camera in either very close or all the way to first person. If you are jogging/sprinting etc it pulls back into third person. Walk into one of those small industrial shacks in third person in the mod and you'll get a feel for it as you go through the doorway the camera automatically adjusts.

 

You also can make the distance blury, making it difficult to see sharp in certain situations.

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

Benefits, ...

 

And I am still repeating in my mind.

 

Please, Isis hear my plea and let the Amnesia dev's implement guns in game. How come they can't see benefits. A lot of players would at least finish the game, and not that much toilet paper would be used. And a lot of trees would be saved.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Doesn't really help any further. I could have used the word "dangerous" insead of "unknown". What then?

 

It's not about finding fault in your wording man. Look at the meaning behind my words, respond to that rather than avoiding it.

 

Fraggle laid it all out for you, but you just simply turn it around like that argument makes sense. Having floating cameras doesn't add to the difficult or the unknown, because there's nothing you can effectively do to avoid them. That's not my playstyle, or opinion, that's a fact. That's just plain old laws of physics.

 

Having the floating camera does increase your chance to die. I won't deny that. But, when it's reasonably out of your control that can't be considered difficulty.

 

I said there's a difference between the unknown and the unknowable because when you can't see over a wall, it's unknown, you can walk around the wall, you can come at it from another angle, you can avoid the wall. When you have a floating camera and come to a wall, you're already spotted. You can avoid every wall in the game, but then what are you left with? Forest? You'll die. What about every tree? So.. you have to throw your life into the wind and hope the unknowable won't get you today.

 

I don't know why I even bother, you'll just say to run faster or something equally silly and dismissive. Oh well.

Edited August 29, 2013 by bad_mojo

[Ken Bean 175]

Errr, all you did was quoted a question I asked (and edited it).....

 

How about actually answering it instead?

 

To be honest, I see you made a valid point. Can't really say so because I don't know about how the SA is build. If there are sniper nests all over the place or sth.

I wouldn't feel very comfortable if it would be a sniper fest.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Wayze 549]

Flying around with a helicopter is supposed to provide a better overview. If you turn your head to the side window you can see pretty good. Just give a try at home and move your head close to the window. Mabe got to a higher floor. You can see pretty good, I suppose. At least making you half blind is not really the way to go imho.

Half blind? Do you know how hard it is to find a camoflaged tent in a forest with a helicopter? It is impossible, no f*cking way you do that. Not even 1% chance, there is just no way you could do that in real life. So don't give me that "making you half blind" bullsh*t because that is totally senseless.

Helicopters are just way to overpowered and in third person they are even more OP.

[Ken Bean 175]

Benefits, ...

 

And I am still repeating in my mind.

 

Please, Isis hear my plea and let the Amnesia dev's implement guns in game. How come they can't see benefits. A lot of players would at least finish the game, and not that much toilet paper would be used. And a lot of trees would be saved.

 

Benefits roleplaywise. Pease just try to understand that the whole thing of DayZ goes beyond a first person shooter. Really, try it!

 

I know, you dont. Wont probably ever, so ...

 

Why not playing another game dude? Like Sniper Elite or Battlefield or whatever? That's cool, probably no "exploits" with the 3rd person.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

Well they could disable the 3rd person if is someone is sitting in a heli. I'm not saying "cool" but it would be no too big letdown.

 

My friend,

 

I don't know if you read post #1098 page 55. Anyway, I quoted Dean "Rocket" Hall saying: "We want to be a hardcore game ..." So it is not about "cool" it is hardocre that makes game "cool". And as they could disable 3rd in helies, they could disable it for SA.

[Ken Bean 175]

My friend,

 

I don't know if you read post #1098 page 55. Anyway, I quoted Dean "Rocket" Hall saying: "We want to be a hardcore game ..." So it is not about "cool" it is hardocre that makes game "cool". And as they could disable 3rd in helies, they could disable it for SA.

 

So "hardcore game" for you means 1st person? This dear sir is plain bullshit.

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

Benefits roleplaywise. Pease just try to understand that the whole thing of DayZ goes beyond a first person shooter. Really, try it!

 

 

Yes it goes beyond that. But if we want to have survivor simulator, than the immersion to that is 1st person view. And 1st person view is not a priori 1st person shooter.

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

So "hardcore game" for you means 1st person? This dear sir is plain bullshit.

 

And in DayZ for me,

 

Hardcore = Realistic,

1st person view = Realistic,

Hardcore = 1st person view.

 

For me, that is not what you said it is.

Edited August 29, 2013 by (TMW) Marion Mic

[SMLE 39]

Fair point, I think the context sensitive approach solves this better. If you are prone, crouch or standing still, pull the camera in either very close or all the way to first person. If you are running/sprinting etc it pulls back into third person. Walk into one of those small industrial shacks in third person in the mod and you'll get a feel for it as you go through the doorway the camera automatically adjusts. It's pretty fluid.

Sorry but I just cant let this one go by , so now you want 3rd person servers to be forced into 1st person view when people are prone , crouched , standing still , in buildings . in cars . in helicopters ? lol what the hell is left the loading screen ?

but no you don't want to get rid of 3rdp view just change it a little .

I left out in combat and with guns raised sorry my bad .

cheers

Edited August 29, 2013 by SMLE

[SmashT 10907]

Sorry but I just cant let this one go by , so now you want 3rd person servers to be forced into 1st person view when people are prone , crouched , standing still , in buildings . in cars . in helicopters ? lol what the hell is left the loading screen ?

but no you don't want to get rid of 3rdp view just change it a little .

cheers

 

I didn't mention cars, buildings or helicopters at all but yes to the others. A context sensitive approach is one of the proposals Rocket is looking at if you read his comments in the very first post of this topic. We get it, you've made it very clear that you won't be happy at all unless nothing is changed. There is no point continuing this discussion with you if that is the case.

Edited August 29, 2013 by SmashT

[SMLE 39]

I didn't mention cars, buildings or helicopters at all but yes to the others. A context sensitive approach is one of the proposals Rocket is looking at if you read his comments in the very first post of this topic. We get it, you've made it very clear that you won't be happy at all unless nothing is changed.

Lol theres nothing sensitive about your approach its suttle as a sledge hammer , im only gratefull having read more of Mr Halls plans that something like your proposeing is extremely unlikely .

cheers

[SmashT 10907]

Lol theres nothing sensitive about your approach its suttle as a sledge hammer , im only gratefull having read more of Mr Halls plans that something like your proposeing is extremely unlikely .

cheers

 

He's already specifically mentioned they are trying 2/3 of them... (prone and crouched), here they are incase you missed them.

 

We're still toying with what to do with first person/third person, we have a few plans around that. Whether we do context sensitive and force players to not use third person in certain situations for example maybe when you go prone on the ground the camera moves in really close or forces you into first person

 

we are going to try both forcing first for prone, and the "sucking camera in close" and see which works best.

Agree too, crouching would really benefit from a more "over the shoulder", we'll try that and put some previs up for people to comment on.

 

It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to also consider a lower/closer third person camera for standing still too.

Edited August 29, 2013 by SmashT