First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[terrvik 2409]

FPV servers are rare becuase so is the mindset of that type of player. rare. excpet here on the boards were 5-6 people try to sound like the entire game community.

 

I counted ten people in favor of FPV on the first PAGE of this thread alone. :)

 

Maybe 5-6 of us has the patience to try to actually discuss this in a mature manner still.

EDIT: Also:

 

 

if what u say was true, the FPS servers would be full 24/7.

 

The first person servers I play on ARE full 24/7.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[Ken Bean 175]

This argument always gets brought up in these threads but I don't think it's nearly that simple. Although I won't hesitate to try and put you in the ground if attacked I've never fired on another player in DayZ without provocation. Nonetheless, I will argue strongly for the removal of 3rd person. If anything my experiences on 1st versus 3rd person servers have been the opposite of what you suggest. I not sure that the players were any friendlier but populated 1st person servers were certainly safer, and definitely didn't feel like as much of a deathmatch.

Although I agree with all the posts arguing that 3rd person provides an unfair and completely unrealistic tactical advantage, particularly to campers, that is not the primary reason I think it should be removed. It should be removed because it eliminates a whole host of difficult and interesting decisions that the player would otherwise need to make. As Dslyecxi argues in the video how will you chose to balance the reward of information versus the risk of getting your head shot off?

But I do switch from 3rd person to 1st person even in single player games like hell. And if someone would remove the 3rd person from Fallout New Vegas, I would extremely disappointed. Being bound to 1st person only is just rubbish in my feel. Cuts off half of the fun. I know, you guys think its unfair but netheretheless all the immersion argument is pointless. Because it's simply not true.

That was my point. The 3rd-p-issue is just a side effect of the pvp thing going on.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

meanwhile like 1 million players are happily off in 3rd person server land playing it up.. hahah

The most popular servers also usually have "donator perks" and other similar stuff.  That doesn't mean it's a good thing for the game.

 

Using your logic people also want DayZ to become pay to win, do you think that's the case?  I don't.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Fraggle

[amradude 289]

Give people a "choice" and watch DayZ SA turn into a joke that the mod currently is. Give people a choice and see any unique idea turn into as generic experience as possible.

 

Whats funny is Day-Z is a game about choice, i can choose to be a bandit, i can choose to be a hero, i can choose not to do either.Whats best for the game is everyone has a choice at how they want to play, it's crazy how some people don't see that.

 

For example

 

Lets say one day Rocket decided he was gonna make it so you can't be a bandit in the game (you would be punished in some way). The Day-Z community would lose their minds, the fact you can't choose what you want to be and do would make people angry and rightfully so.Now apply that same logic to FPV/TPV, the fact you can't choose the way you view the Day-Z world.It really is that simple guys,i think we are making it overly complex.

Edited August 26, 2013 by SuperJesusDude

[Ken Bean 175]

Truth is, no one would complain about 3rd person if it wouldn't mean an advantage in certain corner camper situations.

[tommes 331]

Well see that's the thing when the Day-Z community has a choice, they won't go the way Tommes thinks everything should go.

Exactly. That's why they obviously need force. They will never see the light without some push.

so you can always have a server to play on the way you want, since it's your choice to play on a FPV only server.

But I want to kill 3rd person lamers! They don't tend come to 1st person land...

It's not our problem if you can't find a "decent server"

Sure it's not. You're just causing mine. And why? Because you feel uncomfortable playing like a man...  

 

I loled at this, you really need to understand that what you think is right might not be right.It might be right to you, but wrong for someone else. You really don't get that do you ?

This "what is right for you might not be right for me" thing is at least 50% bullshit. Pedos, real violence and war is wrong for me. How about you? Pissing off many because of the incapability and unwillingness to play fair and decent as well...

It's a little like "Let's play american football! But no touchy touchy please! My mascara is easily messed up..." 

 

No, we are all not in the same boat.

That attitude is the problem. "Fuck the others as long as I can watch my ass in 3rd person!"

I'm thinking of the others. I want to make them better. Not just because my personal comfort but because it's overall better.

You obviously can't see that now. That's why you need some kicks in the ass from a long bearded kung fu master and some harsh training.

...the majority of people want TPV...

Sure. The majority is retarded as well, Cpt. Obvious.

That's why you never have to fear to be alone. There'll be a lot like you and no game developer will risk making you whine all at once for too long because something feels uncomfortable and or too difficult. This mechanic will ensure that any game will transform into lukewarm piss over the course of time. But that's alright for you. You like lukewarm piss. It's healthy I heard. Not gonna try it though. See you in the pool.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Whats funny is Day-Z is a game about choice, i can choose to be a bandit, i can choose to be a hero, i can choose not to do either.

Whats best for the game is everyone has a choice at how they want to play, it's crazy how some people don't see that.

 

For example

 

Lets say one day Rocket decided he was gonna make it so you can't be a bandit in the game (you would be punished in some way). The Day-Z community would lose their minds, the fact you can't choose what you want to be and do would make people angry and rightfully so.Now apply that same logic FPV/TPV, the fact you can't choose they way you view the Day-Z world.It really is that simple guys,i think we are making it overly complex.

I think you're muddying the water a bit.  DayZ as a game is about choice, but it's about the choices we can make within the confines of what we have available as prescribed by the devs.  That's what making a game is about.

 

If it was purely about choosing to play any way we like we'd be able to pluck tanks out of the sky and have Humvees with 50cals and nitrous wheelspinning around Cherno Mad Max stylee..

Edited August 26, 2013 by Fraggle

[amradude 289]

Truth is, no one would complain about 3rd person if it wouldn't mean an advantage in certain corner camper situations.

Truth is, no FPV only player would care if there were as many of there servers available as there are TPV/FPV servers, i wonder how we can fix that for Day-Z SA.

[terrvik 2409]

Also it should be about making choices in a game world designed by the dev team, not about choosing what game mechanics you want to play with. Current choices in the mod include constant daylight, global side chat, crosshairs, death messages, waypoints, third person view and many more (not even including the different mods with NPC's and other stuff). Many of these are remnants from Arma, DayZ being a mod and all.

Should we have a myriad of different server combinations to give each player all these options, or just let Team Rocket decide what is best for the game? Choice is good, but there has to be a framework to make those choices within.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[tommes 331]

so, play my way or GTFO.

 

all you guys are the same..

It's not my way. It's the best way. Not just for me. The others just don't know it yet.

 

you'll notice no one who plays 3rd person is saying take FPS out.. you know why that is?

 

cuz we can respect that everyone likes different options. shame you cant..

Wrong! Because 1st person view is an integral part of a 1st person game while 3rd person view is a crutch for lame footed people.

 

but its pretty typical for PVP people tbh.

PvP people are the shit! They own you. They're awesome. They're the heros of our stories. Or has anybody ever heard a good story about some guy just picking stuff up from the ground? Maybe Wall-E...

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

 

 

The first person servers I play on ARE full 24/7.

 

yet here you are still banging the drum to have third person removed..

 

you have your servers, and i have mine..

 

the only problem here is the fact your trying to step on others toes, and tell them its for their own good.

 

like somehow your idea of gameplay is more important then someone elses..

 

typical.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

It's not my way. It's the best way. Not just for me. The others just don't know it yet.

 

Wrong! Because 1st person view is an integral part of a 1st person game while 3rd person view is a crutch for lame footed people.

 

PvP people are the shit! They own you. They're awesome. They're the heros of our stories. Or has anybody ever heard a good story about some guy just picking stuff up from the ground? Maybe Wall-E...

 

 

thx for helping me make my point.

 

plz feel free to continue posting as a pro-1st person guy with gems like this ^^^..

 

im sure your EXACTLY the person Rocket is looking to market to..

 

hahaha

[Ken Bean 175]

Truth is, no FPV only player would care if there were as many of there servers available as there are TPV/FPV servers, i wonder how we can fix that for Day-Z SA.

Good point.

yet here you are still banging the drum to have third person removed..

you have your servers, and i have mine..

the only problem here is the fact your trying to step on others toes, and tell them its for their own good.

like somehow your idea of gameplay is more important then someone elses..

typical.

Here's another one.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Ken Bean

[tommes 331]

That was my point. The 3rd-p-issue is just a side effect of the pvp thing going on.

That is right. It's about competition and having a fair fight. That's the core of decent PvP. And without PvP DayZ would be shit. So you better make the core of the core not shit! One way or the other.

[terrvik 2409]

yet here you are still banging the drum to have third person removed..

 

you have your servers, and i have mine..

 

the only problem here is the fact your trying to step on others toes, and tell them its for their own good.

 

like somehow your idea of gameplay is more important then someone elses..

 

typical.

 

Excuse me? This thread is about discussing both perspectives so that's what I'm doing. Point me to a post where I have insulted you or anyone else in favor of TPV.

 

I believe FPV works best for games like DayZ, so I'm arguing that point. Please don't make me look through the thread to dig up all the remarks about being an asshole, nazi or bloodthirsty lichen (I like that one!).

 

Tell me what is so typical about my behaviour.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[amradude 289]

I think you're muddying the water a bit.  DayZ as a game is about choice, but it's about the choices we can make within the confines of what we have available as prescribed by the devs.  That's what making a game is about.

 

If it was purely about choosing to play any way we like we'd be able to pluck tanks out of the sky and have Humvees with 50cals and nitrous wheelspinning around Cherno Mad Max stylee..

 

I don't think i am fraggle, the players have a choice, Day-Z is about choice.I think you are muddying the water a little here fraggle.

 

Of course we aren't talking about anything crazy like in your reply, we are talking about choice of how you play the game as prescribed by the devs.

Edited August 26, 2013 by SuperJesusDude

[Tempus (DayZ) 1062]

Choice isn't always a good thing, you only need to go and look at how fat some kids are these days to know that.

 

Agreed. But to stick with your analogy, what do you suppose to be the right way to do:

 

Showing these kids how much better their lives would be if they got in shape (introduce your friends to first person, post exciting youtube videos about it)

and provide sport clubs and diet to make it happen (make sure enough first person only servers are available),

 

or

 

forcing it on them by outlawing obesity (third person view), like some crazy totalitarian government would?

[amradude 289]

Also it should be about making choices in a game world designed by the dev team, not about choosing what game mechanics you want to play with. Current choices in the mod include constant daylight, global side chat, crosshairs, death messages, waypoints, third person view and many more (not even including the different mods with NPC's and other stuff). Many of these are remnants from Arma, DayZ being a mod and all.

Should we have a myriad of different server combinations to give each player all these options, or just let Team Rocket decide what is best for the game? Choice is good, but there has to be a framework to make those choices within.

 

Hmmm. maybe you guys are misunderstanding me. Day-Z gameplay as made by the devs/rocket is about player choice, in the framework of how the devs/rocket want.

 

You guys understand that when i say player choice, i don't mean we should have the choice to fly like superman in Day-Z or something insane like that right ? I mean we should have the choice at how we play/what we play in the framework of the devs/rocket.

 

I should have made that more clear to you guys.

 

Edit-

 

Just so people know, i'm not for keeping 3rd person as it is in the mod either.I really want rocket to add the prone/first person view and close up crouch cam.And i like playing in 1st person too, i just don't want 3rd person completely gone off the game is all.I totally get your points about 1st person view

Edited August 26, 2013 by SuperJesusDude

[Wayze 549]

I don't think i am fraggle, the players have a choice, Day-Z is about choice.I think you are muddying the water a little here fraggle.

 

Of course we aren't talking about anything crazy like in your reply, we are talking about choice of how you play the game as prescribed by the devs.

The problem is that the admin has the choice, not the player. I think it developed like followed:

First there was only first person (if I recall right), people played DayZ. Then there were some servers which offered third person, so everyone wants to test it ofcourse. As they test it these servers are more populated, and players go always to the most populated servers. So, I think that the main part of the DayZ players never even played first person only, because they got to a server which had third person. A new player is always trying to take the easy way, so if he had third person and then gets into a first person server he thinks "What the hell is this? Way to difficult..." in fact he is taking the path which is easier, but in the long term probably not more enjoyable. But that player will never go to a first person server, because he is simply used to third person. And exactly that is the problem. If there were never third person people would not complain and probably enjoy the game way more and more importantly longer than usually. It would change the interaction with players immensly because it is something different to watch someone else knowing that he could spot you too. Everything, the core gameplay of DayZ, would change just by the fact that it is not a third person game. Not just the simple thinks that you think are important, like watching over a wall, but also the core gameplay of DayZ, the player interaction and the paranoia you feel. DayZ was never made for guys who just want to shot other people, but the admins have the choice what to do with their servers, they make it into a deathmatch.

And believe me, many people will not enjoy the standalone because it won't be like that anymore. It will be the hardcore expirience, maybe even harder than the mod ever was. All those people who watch frankie on pc, then go into a normal server and think "this is dayZ" will realise very fast that the standalone is nothing like that. It won't be the same game anymore and believe me, there is a reason why DayZ Mod became what it became. The biggest part of the community does not desire a survival game, but an action game with some of the features DayZ already has (losing gear, player interaction etc.).

And these people are mostly the people who don't bother to play first person, they take the easiest and most action pased path. But like I said these people will not enjoy the standalone until the admins gain full controll about the loot, which will never happen.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. But to stick with your analogy, what do you suppose to be the right way to do:

 

Showing these kids how much better their lives would be if they got in shape (introduce your friends to first person, post exciting youtube videos about it)

and provide sport clubs and diet to make it happen (make sure enough first person only servers are available),

 

or

 

forcing it on them by outlawing obesity (third person view), like some crazy totalitarian government would?

Now, the kid does not know what is best for him, so the parents, not the government, should force him to lose some weight, for his own good. A kid as you know is stupid, he doesn't know what is best for him. The parents part is to show him this path and maybe even force him on that path. If the parents don't do that, they are simply no good parents and don't give a sh*t about the health of their own child.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Wayze

[Jamz 253]

Which of those said possibilities is a 3rd person only thing?

 

Nobody has mentioned third person being the only option, you seem to be confused.

 

 

The first person servers I play on ARE full 24/7.

 

 

Then why are you getting so worked up about this discussion? Isn't this exactly what you're arguing for?

[terrvik 2409]

Then why are you getting so worked up about this discussion? Isn't this exactly what you're arguing for?

 

Because I enjoy discussing game design in general. :)

Edited August 26, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[Jamz 253]

Because I enjoy discussing game design in general. :)

 

Well me too :) this is why I like this forum

Edited August 26, 2013 by Jamz

[Ken Bean 175]

The problem is that the admin has the choice, not the player. I think it developed like followed:

First there was only first person (if I recall right), people played DayZ. Then there were some servers which offered third person, so everyone wants to test it ofcourse. As they test it these servers are more populated, and players go always to the most populated servers.

Nope, I go to a less populated with 3rd person view and without the nameplates being shown.

I do this because I don't like server which doesn't let me switch the person and because nameplates feel a bit like a cheat. (I know that folks just always turns the mousewheel, which makes it impossible to hide things.)

 

So here you are wrong, player don't always go to the full servers where the heat is pvp whise. Some of them, like me, love to play on almost empty servers at night with loads of flares and stuff. You just can't do that on full servers without frequently being killed.

 

 

Edit

So I think people may like those servers which offer the 3rd person view better. If it would be a disadvantage, they'd go back to 1st-p-only.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Ken Bean

[ZooBeastman 12]

Well about an hours play in to first person only server Zombies.NU - SE2.

 

I'm not too fond of the view at the moment, I find stairs and tight corridors irritating, losing any perspective on my characters footing and actually physical presence in the world (I suspect time adjusts this), the graphics look worse being up close to some slightly dodgy textures. Sneaking around wherever I started was fun enough; no really different to third person though (I'm probably not the most careful player though..); I certainly didn't find the experience in anyway more immersive but that is probably quite situational; I've had no fire fights yet.

 

I have found I get a lot more tearing along with the camera feeling a little seasick inducing, mayhaps I'll get use to that and I suppose I could force vertical sync for the tearing. Head bob plus low blood visibility is very disturbing :p . Though I think climbing a ladder was overall the most odd experience so far.

 

Someone earlier asked why the same size of either this forums poll or the reddit poll wouldn't be indicative of the actual distribution of player preferences, assuming the what 1.8mil uniques your going to need what? 2300 responses to hit a 95% confidence level? That's also ignoring any other factors that drive players to reddit or these forums; there's a reason 'we' are more invested then most. 

[tommes 331]

Agreed. But to stick with your analogy, what do you suppose to be the right way to do:

 

Showing these kids how much better their lives would be if they got in shape (introduce your friends to first person, post exciting youtube videos about it)

and provide sport clubs and diet to make it happen (make sure enough first person only servers are available),

 

or

 

forcing it on them by outlawing obesity (third person view), like some crazy totalitarian government would?

I'd kick their lazy asses around the block till they look like chisled out of stone!

They should've brought up right in the first place. So make their parents run double time!

The soft route won't work with inherently lazy spoiled shits.

Btw, disabling TPV is not like outlawing obesity. It is much more like making it impossible to get obese.