First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Jamz 253]

I believe the reason why people who like PvP want 1st person and the rather non-PvP'ers tend to need 3rd person is the main reason why there's this kind of quarrel since the beginning of (DayZ) time: the non-PvP'ers come from a non-PvP background, playing games like Minecraft or whatever while PvP'ers love 1st person shooters and therefore are used to move in 1st person only...while others complain about getting sick by it and stuff like that.

 

This is not true, all the other games I play online are pvp (WOT, Eve, Planetside 2 etc), I came up from Quake 3 on FPS's  and I love the pvp aspect of them and do quite well at it. To me though DayZ is a unique thing with many more possibilities. I expect I am not alone.

 

As it is currently 3rd person is quite literally easy mode, I believe it greatly undermines the whole concept of DayZ being a hardcore survival simulator.

 

If they can come up with a system that allows 3rd person to be used without people being able to simply see things that their character shouldn't be able to see then great, everyones happy right?

 

If your answer to that is "No, i want to use 3rd person because there's less risk." then frankly i have no sympathy.

 

I don't agree with your first statement, but I completely agree with your second. The way I see it there are two options, split servers into 1st or 3rd person only or as you say fix 3rd person to eliminate the problem. Removing it entirely is not the way.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Jamz

[Chukov 1]

Even on CoD is no 3rd person :(  why on a hardcore survival simulator? If they want to create a hardcore survival simulator there should be FOR ME no 3rd person, crosshair, million cars, million weapons.... and if it is not a survival simulator then do what you want... <_<

Edited August 26, 2013 by Chukov

[ZooBeastman 12]

Might be a little OT but...

 

Can someone point me in the direction of a good first person only server? I know 'good' is pretty damn subjective but given the passion of some of the 'remove the third person cam completely crowd' which I genuinely believe think it to be better for the game, I'm going to try and get a couple of weeks in just first person under my belt.

 

I will say though, even if by some unexpected change in how I enjoy the game in third versus first, I think it highly unlikely I would rather everyone joined me.

 

I find it slightly unfortunate how many first person only advocates play on third person servers and thus create the chicken and egg, not enough players thus not enough player scenario. I've always in life felt that the "be the change you want to see in the world" is the way to live.

 

Quite frankly if the numbers of first person advocates is in anyway reflective of how people feel at large, its for you guys to make those servers successful enough to attract others. I don't think torpedoing the people who don't agree is the most productive way,

 

-edit 

 

especially those with any kind of following, be them streamers or youtubers or whatever

Edited August 26, 2013 by ZooBeastman

[terrvik 2409]

I would recommend http://bmrf.me/ or http://zombies.nu/ depending on where you are located. DayZero, sure, but it's close to Vanilla and the first person servers are always full (60-65 players).

 

I play on SE2. Come murder me! :)

Edited August 26, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[Vicco 123]

Can someone point me in the direction of a good first person only server? I know 'good' is pretty damn subjective but given the passion of some of the 'remove the third person cam completely crowd' which I genuinely believe think it to be better for the game, I'm going to try and get a couple of weeks in just first person under my belt.

 

Don't know how "good' it is, but I've spent some time on US 3279.  No issues when I played it. 

It gets fairly good pop at certain times of the day.  I've seen 20-30 if memory serves.

Understand I was server hopping looking for anti-biotics.  Not to "play." 

I don't like DayZ 1P.

In DayZ 1P is tunnel vision claustrophobic, with no body awareness, and plain clumsy.

I consider it cheating really.  It cheats me by stealing my enjoyment of the game.

You should try it yourself though.  If you actually go a couple weeks, it'll be because you've been converted.

Of course, that also means you're insane.

Report your findings, and we'll weigh that in.

[tommes 331]

It really does baffle me as well. And yes,some of these FPV only people are very selfish

 

I'm sitting here reading all the FPV only comments and even though they know they will have FPV only servers, they just can't get over the fact that other people will be playing third person view on totally different servers and will be happy and having fun.Some FPV only players want it their way or the highway, that's crazy to me.Even Rocket himself had to tell FPV only people on reddit that he doesn't want to get rid of 3rd person totally.

 

If i was one of the super hardcore FPV only players, instead of arguing for complete removal of TPV i would argue for the same amount of FPV servers as there will be TPV servers.For example if there are 10 FPV servers and there are 10 TPV/FPV servers everyone is happy, except the people that want to force a play style on others.

 

 

It really is that simple, it's not complex or hard to solve at all.It's about server choice guys,we all should have a choice.

Choice is not always good. Many people, given the choice, will pick what is bad for them, the people around them and their environment, especially if that choice is somewhat more comfortable than the alternatives.

The effects of choice can be seen in this discussion. You split the community and the majority draws in the others to some extent. There's sort of a gravity. That's why (we) FPV promoters tend to speak up more intensly. We believe our's is the right way. The superior way. And it damn is! At least as long as TPV isn't fixed.

The choice others make, influences my experience as well, because it makes it much harder to find a decent server. I don't have much choice there. That is, as someone mentioned, partly a hen/egg problem, but the big hen chooses where to shit it's egg and not the other way round.

Don't get me wrong! Usually I'm all for personal freedom, free anything, but in some cases it's better to do the right thing instead of the wishes of the majority. That's what I have to witness all over the place. I can hardly find any game any more that is not shit imo. I was completely off gaming for over a year and only got drawn back in by DayZ because it's a no bullshit game with somewhat realistic weapons. (At least I thought so a year back. At this point it's obviously not...)

We are all sitting in the same boat. Our choices affect others too. That's why you gotta be responsible about it. I strongly believe that the overall best choice, given the current circumstances, is to disable TPV completely. If they have it fixed so it can't be exploited anymore, OK. But til then SA should be FPV only. The mod I don't really care about because it's screwd anyway.

[tommes 331]

In DayZ 1P is tunnel vision claustrophobic, with no body awareness, and plain clumsy.

You have a point in that. But that's mostly a performance issue. With high enough FPS things get much smoother. ST_movement added in and it's fairly decent. Try DayZero!

[tommes 331]

There are many ways to play Dayz without pvp you sell the game very short if you think that , I play pvp sure but I also play non pvp and also I play sometimes without guns at all just straight survival , this game is and will be so much more than just a first person shooter I hope .

You don't get my point. You are never in non-pvp except you are alone with your friends on the server. The choice is not PVP vs non-PVP. It's being the hunter or the hunted.

Apart from that the non-PVP part bores the hell out of me. PvP vs. non-PvP is like a great action movie vs. a soap opera for chicks.

[terrvik 2409]

 

I have to ask how we first person people are "trying to force our ways on others" when it looks like we are the ones getting third forced onto us. :)

 

EDIT: Looks to me like when the standalone hits a third (kinda fitting, right?) of the servers should allow TPV and the rest should be FPV only.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[tommes 331]

To me though DayZ is a unique thing with many more possibilities. I expect I am not alone.

Which of those said possibilities is a 3rd person only thing?

[amradude 289]

Choice is not always good. Many people, given the choice, will pick what is bad for them

 

 

That's the beauty of being free to choose, you can choose what you want, not what someone else wants for you. Not what Tommes wants for you.This is a game we are talking about Tommes......

 

 

That's why (we) FPV promoters tend to speak up more intensly. We believe our's is the right way. The superior way. And it damn is! At least as long as TPV isn't fixed.

 

 

Just because you think your way is the right way doesn't mean it's the right way for others.Your right way is the wrong way to me,my right way is the wrong way to you.

 

But i would never think my way is the absolute right way, but I do feel strongly that 1st/3rd person should be a server issue. But if a FPV only player came to me with an excellent point, my mind could change easily as I'm not close minded.

 

 

The choice others make, influences my experience as well, because it makes it much harder to find a decent server. I don't have much choice there. That is, as someone mentioned, partly a hen/egg problem, but the big hen chooses where to shit it's egg and not the other way round.

 

 

Well see that's the thing when the Day-Z community has a choice, they won't go the way Tommes thinks everything should go.They go the way they want to go.So if people like playing on TPV/FPV servers more, then that's what they like. Everyone doesn't want to play Day-Z the way Tommes likes to play.That's why i keep saying to people like you, you shouldn't be arguing about taking away TPV, you should be arguing for more FPV servers so you can always have a server to play on the way you want, since it's your choice to play on a FPV only server.

 

It really is as simple as that.It's a server issue, not a TPV issue imo.It's not our problem if you can't find a "decent server", that's why you should be speaking up for more FPV only servers in DAY-Z SA.

 

 

 

Usually I'm all for personal freedom, free anything, but in some cases it's better to do the right thing instead of the wishes of the majority.

 

 

I loled at this, you really need to understand that what you think is right might not be right.It might be right to you, but wrong for someone else. You really don't get that do you ?

 

We are all sitting in the same boat. Our choices affect others too. That's why you gotta be responsible about it. I strongly believe that the overall best choice, given the current circumstances, is to disable TPV completely.

 

 

No, we are all not in the same boat.If i have TPV/FPV servers and you have FPV only servers then  everyone is happy. I strongly believe that you and others are gonna have to learn to live with people being able to use TPV on their servers and get over yourself.You'll have plenty of FPV servers (hopefully), and if that doesn't make you happy then to bad. Rocket and the majority of people want TPV, and for now it's not going anywhere.

Edited August 26, 2013 by SuperJesusDude

[RooBurger 285]

With 3rdP you can't choose whether or not other players decide to watch you with an invisible camera. So you're forced to use it yourself.

[SMLE 39]

With 3rdP you can't choose whether or not other players decide to watch you with an invisible camera. So you're forced to use it yourself.

Not if you play on a 1st person only server and let others play on the server of their choice .

[amradude 289]

With 3rdP you can't choose whether or not other players decide to watch you with an invisible camera. So you're forced to use it yourself.

 

If you are in a 1st person only server, how can someone use a TPV camera ? I don't understand....

[Private Evans 1303]

A lot of gameplay will take place inside of buildings and structures,... the new loot spawn system will place loot under beds and tables or behind car seats etc... there will be no hud and no crosshair...comunicating and interacting with other players and the gameworld will be more important.......

 

= fighting in 3rd person will be completely pointless

 

=looting will be more difficult in 3rd persoon...in some cases even pointless as well 

 

=interior gameplay in 3rd person sucks ...camera has to be tweaked anyway to avoid bugs like seeing through rooftops and walls ( as shown in some of the early devblogs)

 

=talking, trading, crafting and any kind of interaction work better in 1st person view ( no secret that is)

 

in other words people will play a lot more in 1.person anyway

 

Remove zooming, freelook and the possibility to change to 1st person on the fly and force players into 1st person under certain conditions anyway ( during combat when sneaking or crouching , inside or on top of buildings etc) and we are good to go....everybody would still be able to admire his new pink heels and stockings in 3.person  :P

[amradude 289]

 

I have to ask how we first person people are "trying to force our ways on others" when it looks like we are the ones getting third forced onto us. :)

 

EDIT: Looks to me like when the standalone hits a third (kinda fitting, right?) of the servers should allow TPV and the rest should be FPV only.

 

 

First off, That poll in no way represents the community at large...i think you know that.The real poll will come when the Day-Z SA FPV servers & TPV/FPV servers are up and running, then we will see which one has more people.That's the poll that really matters.

 

Now think about this, if i tell you i want all players to play in TPV only and i want 1st person view completely out of Day-Z, would you say that i was forcing TPV on you and others ? Or would you call that being fair and balanced ?

Edited August 26, 2013 by SuperJesusDude

[RooBurger 285]

If you are in a 1st person only server, how can someone use a TPV camera ? I don't understand....

 

I'd play on those alone if I could. I can't find one to play on with a ping less than about 400. And even those aren't populated, so I don't have any options.

Edited August 26, 2013 by RooBurger

[amradude 289]

I can't find one to play on with a ping less than about 400. And even those aren't populated.

 

That's why instead of you arguing to ban TPV in Day-Z-SA, you should be arguing for more FPV only servers with good ping in Day-Z SA.That way you would be happy and i would be happy, and the whole Day-Z community would be happy.We would all have huge smiles on are faces, don't you want that ?

[terrvik 2409]

First off, That poll in no way represents the community at large...i think you know that.The real poll will come when the Day-Z SA FPV servers & TPV/FPV servers are up and running, then we will see which one has more people.That's the poll that really matters.

 

Now think about this, if i tell you i want all players to play in TPV only and i want 1st person view completely out of Day-Z, would you say that i was forcing TPV on you and others ? Or would you call that being fair and balanced ?

 

I wouldn't accuse you of forcing it on me, no.* But I would lose all interest in the game if that was to become the case. Fair and balanced, sure, but boring as hell.

To be fair I don't think the population on servers is a good way to gauge what the community thinks or what is good for DayZ either, since a majority of servers still have side chat and 24/7 daylight on and I don't think there even is a discussion that these should be removed (in the SA, I totally get why this still exists in the mod).

 

Both sides have good points and valid arguments, I simply don't like it when people get so defensive and hostile.

 

A question though; why is it that these polls can't be considered valid? I have looked through every discussion thread there is (here, reddit, even youtube comments) and there seems to be a much larger support for FPV than the available servers tell. Why is this?

 

EDIT: By the way: a large portion of the "community at large" entered the scene when there was already plenty of available sub-mods of DayZ, many of which didn't even resemble what DayZ originally was. Since the SA will be an expanded "back to the roots" kinda thing, is it really necessary to cater to everyone?

 

*EDIT: Actually, I don't see how that is forcing anything. If that's your opinion then that's your opinion. Me preferring first person isn't forcing either, I am just stating and trying to argue why I think it works best for DayZ.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

That's why I think players should be forced in 1st person only. If they have to deal with it, whey will...or go.

 

 

so, play my way or GTFO.

 

all you guys are the same..

 

you'll notice no one who plays 3rd person is saying take FPS out.. you know why that is?

 

cuz we can respect that everyone likes different options. shame you cant..

 

but its pretty typical for PVP people tbh.

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Give people a "choice" and watch DayZ SA turn into a joke that the mod currently is. Give people a choice and see any unique idea turn into as generic experience as possible. I see many people are failing to realize this is not at all about playing it "our way because we like it better". It's for the good of the game as a whole. FPV might not even be the best choice for that either, some valid concerns have been raised about it, but that is what all this really is about - what is the best for the game in the long term. People who want to dick around for half an hour of so will of course prefer TPV, 10000 cars and choppers, 24/7 daylight and so on. Even if that might be the most fun way of playing for them and they make up the majority of the player base, it doesn't mean the standalone should be like that or offer such option.

[RooBurger 285]

That's why instead of you arguing to ban TPV in Day-Z-SA, you should be arguing for more FPV only servers with good ping in Day-Z SA.That way you would be happy and i would be happy, and the whole Day-Z community would be happy.We would all have huge smiles on are faces, don't you want that ?

 

If I had any choice to play how I want, I wouldn't be here trying to explain why 1stP sucks in the first place. I'd just be playing the game. And I think that's why most other people who prefer 1stP are here. If there were more servers to play on which were set up how we liked, there wouldn't be any debate. But that isn't the reality, we have little choice but to play on 3rdP.

 

So we've spoken up to bring more people around to the fact that 3rdP is a ridiculous game mechanic for a game like DayZ. Hopefully this leads to more 1stP servers so that there won't be any future debate about whether to ban it or not.

[Ken Bean 175]

want to reduce KOS?

 

remove 3rd person.

Nah! Just remove all the weapons. <;-)

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Give people a "choice" and watch DayZ SA turn into a joke that the mod currently is. Give people a choice and see any unique idea turn into as generic experience as possible. I see many people are failing to realize this is not at all about playing it "our way because we like it better". It's for the good of the game as a whole. FPV might not even be the best choice for that either, some valid concerns have been raised about it, but that is what all this really is about - what is the best for the game in the long term. People who want to dick around for half an hour of so will of course prefer TPV, 10000 cars and choppers, 24/7 daylight and so on. Even if that might be the most fun way of playing for them and they make up the majority of the player base, it doesn't mean the standalone should be like that or offer such option.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.  Choice isn't always a good thing, you only need to go and look at how fat some kids are these days to know that.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

 

A question though; why is it that these polls can't be considered valid? I have looked through every discussion thread there is (here, reddit, even youtube comments) and there seems to be a much larger support for FPV than the available servers tell. Why is this?

 

 

 

if what u say was true, the FPS servers would be full 24/7.

 

the reason why 3rd person servers are so plentiful is because MORE people prefer it. plain n simple.

 

i cal bull when someone tries to tell me ALL the FPV people say " i cant find a decent ping".. come on..

 

FPV servers are rare becuase so is the mindset of that type of player. rare. excpet here on the boards were 5-6 people try to sound like the entire game community.

 

meanwhile like 1 million players are happily off in 3rd person server land playing it up.. hahah