First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Jamz 253]

Sorry, i didn't read whole topic, just first 3 pages and last one, maybe my solution is outdated.

But it's very simple - just not render characters and loot if they not in field of view of player character as in first person.

 

 

This is exactly what I mean too. You then have the best of all worlds including the option to go first person if preferred with no disadvantage during player engagements. I think the bottom line is that third person view is the most popular with the playerbase so just removing it altogether might not be such a wise idea.

 

The problem is not the view aspect itself, but what it enables you to see. That's what needs to be addressed IMO but zooming to FP while prone would be an acceptable idea too if done right.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Tbh if the SA instigates the changes proposed (1st for prone and a more up close and restricted 3rd person view in crouch) then it could be a fair compromise.

 

If the looking around the corner exploit is restricted so it only works when standing completely upright then at least there is a fair chance a zombie or two could spot the player (especially since in the SA the zombie numbers will be increased somewhat).

 

That way we can all run to open fields and admire our character in 3rd person without fear, until we get sniped from a treeline.

[SMLE 39]

Choice is a wonderfull thing , let people choose which type of server they wish to play on 1st or 3rd , problem solved .

3rd person is by far the most popular way to play .

People like Frankie and Jackfrags do their Youtubes in 3rd person and the get the big hits .

If you really want to alienate a very large percentage of the player base get rid of 3rd person view .

 

and finally yes I would not buy the game if it does not have 3rd person view and I suspect I am not alone .

 

so as I said Choice is the best option , nobody forcing people to play their way .

 

Choice is good :)

Edited August 25, 2013 by SMLE

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Sorry, i didn't read whole topic, just first 3 pages and last one, maybe my solution is outdated.

But it's very simple - just not render characters and loot if they not in field of view of player character as in first person.

 

So we have this scene:

This is first person view:

This is how it looks from third person for now:

And this is how it must  be:

How it works:

Green is visible from first person, red is not.

 

 

Yeah.  That's not really a solution imo.

 

 

How about something like this.

 

Weapon on your back, full third person. 

Weapon equipped but down, zoomed in third person.

Weapon raised, first person.

 

?

Edited August 25, 2013 by SausageKingofChicago

[Nowai (DayZ) 2]

For a game that prides itself on "realism", I think the fact that they even have third-person as an option is baffling. Not only does it detract from the immersion of playing a game, but It can, and always will, be used to create an advtange over those who do not wish to use it, thus creating unbalance and effectively forcing third-person to be the norm for anyone who wants a fair game.

 

Personally I was truly looking forward to this game, but after seeing all the dev blog videos and screenshots (and realising they're generally all in third person), I have to say I am feeling less excited about this game, even to the point where I don't even know if I want to buy the standalone anymore. I guess that's just how much I dislike the option of third-person.

[ZooBeastman 12]

I was pondering the whole 'path of least resistance' argument and am curious to how much flex there is in it.

 

For me it raises the question

 

"If its easier to use third person perspective and by assumption this means more people use third person perspectives why do people not just play 'less resistive' games?"

 

There must be another factor and I'm stumped that it could be anything other than subjective fun.

[ZooBeastman 12]

Sorry, i didn't read whole topic, just first 3 pages and last one, maybe my solution is outdated.

But it's very simple - just not render characters and loot if they not in field of view of player character as in first person.

 

So we have this scene:

This is first person view:

This is how it looks from third person for now:

And this is how it must  be:

How it works:

Green is visible from first person, red is not.

 

I would be in favour of trying this, but I have a feeling while playing it would feel quite er... shitty and look very strange / glitchy (even if not glitchy)

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

Sorry, i didn't read whole topic, just first 3 pages and last one, maybe my solution is outdated.

But it's very simple - just not render characters and loot if they not in field of view of player character as in first person.

 

So we have this scene:

This is first person view:

This is how it looks from third person for now:

And this is how it must  be:

How it works:

Green is visible from first person, red is not.

OMG is that possible to do in ArmA?

[SmashT 10907]

Personally I'm not a fan of the not rending characters out of your FOV/LOS idea, it would seem really wierd being able to see around/over walls etc but having everyone on the other side invisible to you and would probably give you a false sense of safety. Sounds like it may have an impact on performance too, having to constantly determine if players are visible to each other (which could also vary depending on their FOV settings)

Rocket did however reply to another suggestion (which is quite similar to some made in this topic)

 

I think at the very least you should consider changing the 3rd-person camera so that:

• It's closer to the character and lower, so that you can't suddenly look over a high wall when in 3rd person. See Last of Us for an example. Put it over the shoulder, rather than hovering behind the character like a magical floating camera.
• Limit the ability to look up/down to about 30-40 degrees, so that you cant easily look over objects and see things on the other side (which your character shouldn't be able to see).
• Pull the camera in even closer when prone and crouching, to limit the amount of exploiting. that way you'd have to stand up to check youself for injurires or use the inventory system to check yourself.

edit: he's a couple of screenshot of modded 3rd-person cameras in arma2: http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q295/macmeister92/arma22010-04-1016-17-17-33.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/bla212/in.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/bla212/out2.jpg

and a video of another mod:

Note the awesome transition from 1st to 3rd-person as well, looks much better than going through the characters head.

 

"This sounds like a good idea to me. Ill look at it more tomorrow when back from germany"

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1kzy02/sa_gamescom_gameplay_with_rocket_gamestar_10min/cbuwqc6

Edited August 25, 2013 by SmashT

[DemonGroover 8836]

Choice is a wonderfull thing , let people choose which type of server they wish to play on 1st or 3rd , problem solved .

3rd person is by far the most popular way to play .

People like Frankie and Jackfrags do their Youtubes in 3rd person and the get the big hits .

If you really want to alienate a very large percentage of the player base get rid of 3rd person view .

 

and finally yes I would not buy the game if it does not have 3rd person view and I suspect I am not alone .

 

so as I said Choice is the best option , nobody forcing people to play their way .

 

Choice is good :)

Well if Frankie and JackFrags want 3rd person then that's it. I'm sold!!

 

Discussion over people.

 

Move along.

[SMLE 39]

Well if Frankie and JackFrags want 3rd person then that's it. I'm sold!!

 

Discussion over people.

 

Move along.

I used those guys as an example of people who know what sells are in tune with the communities likes ect

 

so you don't agree with letting people choose for them selves ?

Edited August 25, 2013 by SMLE

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

so basicly "play my way or GTFO, this includes you Rocket"

 

that about sums up your ability to understand that DAYZ SA isnt being designed for 1 group of people.. or 1 play style.

 

but by all means continue to live in that bubble were only your way is correct...

No, what I'm saying is the devs don't have the guts to remove TPV. Not that I blame them. How do you get "play my way or GTFO" from that post, I don't know. I'd be perfectly happy with a compromise that deals with worst offenders, and prone position is just one of them. Sausage mentioned a few good ideas a couple of pages back. We definitely need a set of fixes, not just one for prone. Although better than nothing, prone view restriction alone would be inadequate and a half assed solution for the problem IMO.

 

For a game that prides itself on "realism", I think the fact that they even have third-person as an option is baffling. Not only does it detract from the immersion of playing a game, but It can, and always will, be used to create an advtange over those who do not wish to use it, thus creating unbalance and effectively forcing third-person to be the norm for anyone who wants a fair game.

I think it is a shame we have this wonderful engine where FPV is not just a floating camera with hands attached and we don't just shoot from the center of our screen like in other games. The bullet is actually simulated coming out of the barrel so you can't just shoot at someone while remaining hidden by manipulating the camera. And yet all of that is worthless when TPV changes game mechanics so much that tactically it mostly ends up being down to who can manipulate the camera better.

[fluxley 2228]

 

 

so you don't agree with letting people choose for them selves ?

 

People tend to choose whats best for themselves, not whats best the overall game experience, these decisions should be made by the developers. 

 

Design by committee generally results in mediocrity.

 

So, no i don't agree with letting people choose for themselves just for the sake of it.

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

Choice is a wonderfull thing , let people choose which type of server they wish to play on 1st or 3rd , problem solved .

3rd person is by far the most popular way to play .

People like Frankie and Jackfrags do their Youtubes in 3rd person and the get the big hits .

If you really want to alienate a very large percentage of the player base get rid of 3rd person view .

 

and finally yes I would not buy the game if it does not have 3rd person view and I suspect I am not alone .

 

so as I said Choice is the best option , nobody forcing people to play their way .

 

Choice is good :)

Choice is good? More choice, better? Let's give players the opportunity to zoom off 1000x more, so people who wanna play the game without seeing their character but the area they are playing would be happy. Who would not like to play such a game looking down from the sky at the game-world ?

[Shadow Man 142]

Choice is a wonderfull thing , let people choose which type of server they wish to play on 1st or 3rd , problem solved .

3rd person is by far the most popular way to play .

People like Frankie and Jackfrags do their Youtubes in 3rd person and the get the big hits .

If you really want to alienate a very large percentage of the player base get rid of 3rd person view .

 

and finally yes I would not buy the game if it does not have 3rd person view and I suspect I am not alone .

 

so as I said Choice is the best option , nobody forcing people to play their way .

 

Choice is good :)

 

Sorry but I have to completely disagree. Many great games exist that are full of restrictions which no one minds. Look at the popularity of cod and battlefield. They don't have a 3rd person option, but do people mind? No.

 

The way it should work is, the devs design a game with a concept in mind of what they want the player to experience. THIS is the important part. If the devs decide they want the player to have a thrill ride full of explosions and bullets whistling by everywhere, they design a game that provides that. If they want the player to be paronoid and creeped out by atmosphere and hidden danger, they design the game completely differently. This can only be done by subtly forcing the player into situations, not by giving them options.

 

I always thought Dayz was meant to be this anti-game that didn't play by the rules, didn't make it easy, didn't help you. They took away a lot of typical game elements to try and create a brutal survival sim. Having an option that gives you easy mode just goes against everything that I thought DayZ was meant to be.

 

Also you cant use youtube as a valid argument. Watching other people play a game is totally different to playing it yourself. I agree that 3rd person video's are great to watch, but I never play in 3rd.

 

 

Either way it looks like Rocket is making DayZ something other than what I thought it was. I like the fact that he's trying to find a solution, but I seem to remember a time when Rocket didn't care if no one liked the game. He was going to make Dayz the way he wanted and that was all. Now it seems like he's making sure he doesn't upset the playerbase. If he really wants 3rd person and always had that in mind from the beginning then somehow over the last couple of years I've got the whole thing wrong. But thats fair enough, if thats the game he wants then its all good. Its just not the game for me.

[Andrakann 52]

OMG is that possible to do in ArmA?

Bots wont shoot at you if you behind wall or tree, so calculations for visibility already in arma engine, only need to be adopted for player character.

 

Btw, i have another solution, very simple to implement! ;)

Just add indicators to players in 3-rd person mode, like this:

And advantages of third person becomes well balanced with disadvantage :)

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

I only play 3rd person, have tried to get used to 1st person but it feels wierd to me, im not an old school fps player thats use to 1st person type games, have mostly played 3rd person games all my life.

 

Am hoping we get a choice, so theres 1st person servers or 3rd pesron servers,  The vocal minority shouldnt be allowed to dictate the majoritys gameplay, Unfortunately i think many people wont be interested in Dayz if its only 1st person, me included :(

 

I live in hope that dead is willing to cater to everyone if he can.

 

I really dont know what is wrong with 3rd and 1st person servers being seperated.

 

I dont mind playing against other players who only play 3rd person, i dont expect an advantage.

 

(ps - was palying minecraft today and my friend said "you still got that crappy skin on your character lol"

i said "oh yea, i forgot bout that, but hey it doesnt matter really cos i cant even see my character"

(minecraft is a 1st person game)

 

So whats the point of loads of differnt clothing and being able to customize your character if you cant even see it?

 

:) i expect ill be flamed by the angry minority 1st person peeps :P

Edited August 25, 2013 by jaytmuk

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

Edited August 25, 2013 by jaytmuk

[Shadow Man 142]

One more thing...

 

If 3rd person stays, they need to have equal numbers of 3rd only/1st only servers and not allow private hive EVER. Once private hive servers are allowed it will all go to shit.

 

Thats it. I'm done now.

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

Sorry but I have to completely disagree. Many great games exist that are full of restrictions which no one minds. Look at the popularity of cod and battlefield. They don't have a 3rd person option, but do people mind? No.

 

The way it should work is, the devs design a game with a concept in mind of what they want the player to experience. THIS is the important part. If the devs decide they want the player to have a thrill ride full of explosions and bullets whistling by everywhere, they design a game that provides that. If they want the player to be paronoid and creeped out by atmosphere and hidden danger, they design the game completely differently. This can only be done by subtly forcing the player into situations, not by giving them options.

 

I always thought Dayz was meant to be this anti-game that didn't play by the rules, didn't make it easy, didn't help you. They took away a lot of typical game elements to try and create a brutal survival sim. Having an option that gives you easy mode just goes against everything that I thought DayZ was meant to be.

 

Also you cant use youtube as a valid argument. Watching other people play a game is totally different to playing it yourself. I agree that 3rd person video's are great to watch, but I never play in 3rd.

 

 

Either way it looks like Rocket is making DayZ something other than what I thought it was. I like the fact that he's trying to find a solution, but I seem to remember a time when Rocket didn't care if no one liked the game. He was going to make Dayz the way he wanted and that was all. Now it seems like he's making sure he doesn't upset the playerbase. If he really wants 3rd person and always had that in mind from the beginning then somehow over the last couple of years I've got the whole thing wrong. But thats fair enough, if thats the game he wants then its all good. Its just not the game for me.

 

 

You cant use youtube as a valid argument?

Without youtube, Dayz wouldnt be where it is today!

And if Dayz was 1st person only from the start i very much doubt Dayz would have been a hit on youtube.

So alienating youtubers and the vast majority of Dayz players by taking away 3rd person would be suicide for Dayz.

 

Most games players dont play Cod or Battlefield tho.

[Andrakann 52]

I would be in favour of trying this, but I have a feeling while playing it would feel quite er... shitty and look very strange / glitchy (even if not glitchy)

Of course it's looks strange, but not strangest than out of body viewing.

And you can be surprised by zombie from your back, just like in first person :)

Btw, you always can switch to first person if you bored of flashing players and zombies...

Edited August 25, 2013 by Andrakann

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

One more thing...

 

If 3rd person stays, they need to have equal numbers of 3rd only/1st only servers and not allow private hive EVER. Once private hive servers are allowed it will all go to shit.

 

Thats it. I'm done now.

 

 

Equal 1st & 3rd person servers would mean there will be many 1st person empty servers while the 3rd person servers full to the brim cos the vast majority of players want to play 3rd person.

[amradude 289]

I'm really glad Rocket isn't letting the hardcore 1st person only crowd push him into taking out 3rd person view.

 

For the people who want a 1st person only experience, they will always have 1st person only servers.And for people who want the regular Day-Z 1st & 3rd person experience, they will have their servers.Problem solved,everyone is happy without being forced into a play style they don't like.

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

Sorry but I have to completely disagree. Many great games exist that are full of restrictions which no one minds. Look at the popularity of cod and battlefield. They don't have a 3rd person option, but do people mind? No.

 

The way it should work is, the devs design a game with a concept in mind of what they want the player to experience. THIS is the important part. If the devs decide they want the player to have a thrill ride full of explosions and bullets whistling by everywhere, they design a game that provides that. If they want the player to be paronoid and creeped out by atmosphere and hidden danger, they design the game completely differently. This can only be done by subtly forcing the player into situations, not by giving them options.

 

I always thought Dayz was meant to be this anti-game that didn't play by the rules, didn't make it easy, didn't help you. They took away a lot of typical game elements to try and create a brutal survival sim. Having an option that gives you easy mode just goes against everything that I thought DayZ was meant to be.

 

Also you cant use youtube as a valid argument. Watching other people play a game is totally different to playing it yourself. I agree that 3rd person video's are great to watch, but I never play in 3rd.

 

 

Either way it looks like Rocket is making DayZ something other than what I thought it was. I like the fact that he's trying to find a solution, but I seem to remember a time when Rocket didn't care if no one liked the game. He was going to make Dayz the way he wanted and that was all. Now it seems like he's making sure he doesn't upset the playerbase. If he really wants 3rd person and always had that in mind from the beginning then somehow over the last couple of years I've got the whole thing wrong. But thats fair enough, if thats the game he wants then its all good. Its just not the game for me.

Over the last couple years? "A year" you mean?

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

My computer isnt up to scratch like alot of other Dayz players (so im at a disadvantage)

My mouse is a bit knackered unlike alot of Dayz players (so im at a disadvantage)

My internet connection is only 1mb unlike alot of other Dayz players (so im at a disadvantage)

My monitor is not all that big and i dont have widescreen (so im at a disadvantage)

 

I think Dayz graphics should be dropped substantially so my computer & Internet connection and others like me who's computers & Internet connections arent all that can have a fair chance against the players with high end computers and 10mb+ connections!

 

Scale Dayz down to suit the low end computer and internet connection too and then keep first person as well and then everyone is on a level playing field :)

 

Communism ftw :P

I did say "literally" nothing about being at advantage nor disadvantage. Are you high?

 

In order for a game to be fair for all, it should apply the same opportunities to everyone. Even with 3rd person it applies the same possibilities for everyone, which sometimes occurs unfair situations, but which does not mean that the possibilities of any player using 3rd person to exploit is not equal.

 

Which said, you having poor stuff to play is not a disadvantage for the game-play. It is your own fault if you would decide to play a game as owning a poor rig not to be able to play it well. You should then not have "decided" to do that if there is not enough facility for you to do that. This simple logic is called "thinking before attempting to take action about something".

 

I am btw pretty much offended by the communism saying of yours. Due to the fact that what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote (you being off-topic) and that you flamed me with something there is no way I could appreciate accepting, I'll be now filling a report about you.

 

 

Have a nice day.