Responsibility and shame: A intellectual observation of the hill camper

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Do be honest, I just want some kind of mechanic to make sniping more difficult. Yes, it is not against the rules to snipe people, wherever they may be. The problem is that it's too easy, and that is unusual for a game like ArmA. Yes, there is bullet drop. Most of the sniping points along the coast don't even need the use of bullet drop. Why not add wind so there is an actual use for the mildots for wind correction? Make sway harsher for the sniper rifles? The problem is, we can't give one playstyle a drawback. They all need to have their positives and negatives. But it's not realistic! Sniping is too damn easy, too easy. Anyone can snipe, especially me. I usually avoid snipers. But it's a complete pain in the ass for me to hit someone with a CCO when they're 300-400 meters away. But they deserve that advantage, because you engage targets at a longer range.

 

Snipers are commonly used in warfare as a form of suppression. Me and my group were held down for several minutes by a single guy with a DMR. We shot the wrong guy, but we stayed in those pine trees for 20-30 minutes.  We ran like pussies, but he was 600-700 meters away and only one of us had a sniper. See? Now, I'm not sure if he was sniping the airfield or looting it, but he put up a damn good challenge. We we're armed, and actually stood a chance against him. But a newspawn...why would you suppress a newspawn? Even if they had a Winchester or a Lee, I doubt they'd simply spot you prone, in a ghille hiding under a pine tree from 400 meters away. They must have some damn good eyesight if they do. 

 

Is this a rant? You're damn right it is but this is honestly how I feel, and a lot of people within the community share this opinion. You can't come out and say "hur dur you're wrong gg", because it's an opinion, how you feel. I'm just sharing my opinion and maybe someone on the dev team might do something about it, because regardless of what some might say, it is a problem.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Cap'n

[GoldenPSP 24]

More ranty stuff

 

Lone Warrior, I am sorry I did not connect the dots for you better.  You clearly needed more dots.

 

Your post, to summarize, was "stop blaming the victim"  (see I did read it).

 

My reply was, to summarize "we aren't blaming the victim, we are blaming the player who comes whining about being the victim and wants game mechanics to change because they don't like being the victim."

 

Additionally, the post I was replying to said NOTHING about hackers, combat loggers, and other various cheaters which you claim in your follow post to be talking about.  To that I would reply with the same thing I have told my wife of 20 years.  As much as I have tried I am not a mind reader.

 

And no I'm not one of those players.  I've only been playing so far about 3 weeks.  I've been shot and killed a number of times.  And I have been saved/helped by several wonderful players.

[GoldenPSP 24]

Is this a rant? You're damn right it is but this is honestly how I feel, and a lot of people within the community share this opinion. You can't come out and say "hur dur you're wrong gg", because it's an opinion, how you feel. I'm just sharing my opinion and maybe someone on the dev team might do something about it, because regardless of what some might say, it is a problem.

 

Capn,

 

I can say I believe your opinion is flawed.

 

I don't think at its root the problem is with game mechanics (aka how easy/hard sniping is). But I do believe that the biggest issue is with game bugs.  As I have said multiple times now, IMO the biggest issue is/has been with how easy it is to dupe items.

To use me as an example, as I have also said before, I'm still fairly new (few weeks).  My first luck was in finding an M14 at a fire station.  I was so excited, except it had no ammo.  So I carried it around a bit but ultimately dumped it on the ground as I couldnt find a single DMR clip to use with it.

 

I then got super lucky at the NWA.  I found a M9SD.  I almost never use this however as I only have 3 mags for it.  I also found a M14CCO, which I haven't fired a single shot with yet.  Why?  Because I have only found 2 stanag mags for it.

 

But then I have run across places where I see 5 identical standing corpses, loaded with so much gear it is more than any one player could even use.

 

When a player can dupe more DMR's, with mags, and everything else they need with almost no effort, what else is left to do?  Oh yea go snipe people.  And where should they go?  Probably the most populated cities on the map.

 

IMO they need to figure out how to finally squash the duping problem.  Then every server needs to be wiped clean of all camps/tents/ and gear so everyone starts again from scratch.

[Skat3rat 1633]

Capn,

 

I can say I believe your opinion is flawed.

 

I don't think at its root the problem is with game mechanics (aka how easy/hard sniping is). But I do believe that the biggest issue is with game bugs.  As I have said multiple times now, IMO the biggest issue is/has been with how easy it is to dupe items.

To use me as an example, as I have also said before, I'm still fairly new (few weeks).  My first luck was in finding an M14 at a fire station.  I was so excited, except it had no ammo.  So I carried it around a bit but ultimately dumped it on the ground as I couldnt find a single DMR clip to use with it.

 

I then got super lucky at the NWA.  I found a M9SD.  I almost never use this however as I only have 3 mags for it.  I also found a M14CCO, which I haven't fired a single shot with yet.  Why?  Because I have only found 2 stanag mags for it.

 

But then I have run across places where I see 5 identical standing corpses, loaded with so much gear it is more than any one player could even use.

 

When a player can dupe more DMR's, with mags, and everything else they need with almost no effort, what else is left to do?  Oh yea go snipe people.  And where should they go?  Probably the most populated cities on the map.

 

IMO they need to figure out how to finally squash the duping problem.  Then every server needs to be wiped clean of all camps/tents/ and gear so everyone starts again from scratch.

 

They've fixed a lot of duping glitches but not all of the.  I'm actually surprised you found no ammo for that M14.  Despite loot being more rare in this update I still find ammo fairly easily.

If you really want to avoid dupers, try finding a well admined private hive that has a rule against duping.

 

I have to agree with Cap'n, on how easy it is to snipe though.  You give someone a M24, teach them how to zero the gun, and they shouldn't have a problem hitting non moving targets at all.  Moving targets are kind of hard to hit but still very easy.  I do hope they add wind or something to DayZ SA.  I love sniping and love how mods like ACE, actually make sniping difficult.  If sniping was as hard as it is in ACE, I bet a lot of people would quit sniping.  

Edited August 9, 2013 by Skat3rat

[Claw 26]

I think the problem lies with volumes and location.

They know that there will be a good amout of people in the south citys of electroand cherno. Yes the nwaf and starey will guarantee footfall but its not as contained as the 2 citys and there is no elavated firing positions that are so close and so safe in nwaf and starey as sniper hill. Mix in there targets have lesser weaponry and you have ur answer.

It exists but that is the risk of going into the big coastal citys rather than heading straight to a smaller town up north. If you spawn west just find the edge of the map and head north, then all you have to cover is halfed as the west, south west and north west is dead space.

[FrostDMG 398]

Wow. What's with all those pseudo psychologists on this board?

It's a damn game.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Wow. What's with all those pseudo psychologists on this board?

It's a damn game.

Don't ruin our fun.

[The_Lonely_Bandit 94]

I will almost cetainly receive hate for this..

but I am a proud camper of these various locations discussed above. Although I primarily stick with DayZ Origins I still get my fair share of camping on that mod as well. The original post is almost spot on, I do it for the rush of adrenaline that we all get when in a firefight, the mind games that many snipers must deal with (eg *twig snaps* shit is someone behind me?) and finally I do it for the pleasure I get of knowing that i've ruined someones day after losing literally hours of loot.

I myself have never been sniped when running through elektro myself if anything I have been killed by other snipers on surrounding hills (when I am sniping). I do not see camping as a cowards choice (that so many  now refer to it as) or a "CoD" players move. It can be several things. For example I often think of it as teaching others to be better players. SOOOOOOOOO many times I have witnessed absolute idiots brag about getting geared in Elektro and then they will do the most stupidest thing POSSIBLE!! they will run to the firestation at the base of sniper hill. THIS IS MADDENING I truely do not understand how people can complain about campers when the people being camped are just so stupid. To me camping is a skill that not everyone can master the right position must be taken as well as neccesary food supplies a good weapon and some ammo. These are the basics which most people can handle. But then there is the mind games and split second decisions of taking a shot or waiting to see what else happens, or even after taking a kill and avoiding the temptaion of looting the body. Camping is a mind game that very few people wish to compete with and sure camping does ruin it for some people BUT that is because they make ridiculously stupid decisions, and that is what determines a good DayZ player; their ability to make good decisions.

The way I see it campers have it far too easy to get kills by camping points of interests because the wider community is for the most part just lazy and oblivious to the unforgiving environment they are in. STOP complaining about campers and actually focus on trying to be better players then them instead of wining about it people, to cry about a players play style simply because they keep owning you is just unsportsmanlike and embarrasing. Avoiding campers is simple and taking them on is even easier the DayZ community needs to improve its performance otherwise campers will continue to own servers on all mods.

and if anyone is wondering; yes I do kill people who do not have weapons just because I want my kill tally to go higher. If anyone is stupid enough to run into a hotspot and then immature enough to complain about it later they deserve to be killed regradless of their gear.


SPOT ON original post btw big up!  

[Diggydug (DayZ) 331]

Punisher, it sounds like you're trying to justify your own playstyle when you say you see it as teaching people how to play. 

 

You're glorifying a laughably easy thing to do.

I'll simplify the process.

 

What you need:

• DMR/M24
• Respective ammo
• Can of beans
• Coke (never bring a Mt. Dew)
• Patience or another monitor to watch youtube on

 

If you have a DMR (preferable for most) then you keep shooting, correcting your shots as you fire, until you hit the guy that you're not going to loot that didn't know you were there.

If you have an m24 you judge the distance of various objects for future reference, use rangefinders or a map marker, and zero in and shoot.

 

By far the easiest way to "survive" is camping, hunkering down, and just murdering anyone you see fit.

 

Don't make it up to be something it's not.

Camping is a skill anyone can master, if they want, and from my experience, most campers aren't even good shots.  It's also extremely boring, if you ask me, which is why many just don't do it.

_________

 

 

I'm not against campers, it's part of DayZ, but the people who do it are typically awful at anything but camping and full of themselves, as seen above.

[beavis_5000 111]

They are snipers, thats what they do is snipe. They are no different from any other KoS player.

[Capo 323]

as has been said in every motherfuckin' whinge thread related to KoS: if you're sick of getting shot, stop going to electro and cherno. 

 

cherno/electro wouldn't even be fun without the possibility of snipers, and with the introduction of spawn choice i've found players are spreading out more, especially if you're not playing on a "PVP" server. go for one of the inland supermarkets, hitting farms and big residential buildings along the way, I know OP knows this, so it's either stubbornness or stupidity that leads him to continually end up getting shot from a electro/cherno camper. 

 

OP, it's your responsibility to make sure you don't get shot, and your shame when you die like a noob and bitch about it here. 

 

secondly, why would strangers you run into hesitate to shoot you? it's fun, you might have some gear they need and you're likely to open fire from their point of view, so why not get the first shot in? Don't be so naive and then claim intellectual ability, when it's quite clear your thought process is either clouded by a false honor system that you've taken from someone's youtube video, or non-existent. 

Edited October 1, 2013 by Capo

[broguenz 333]

Wow. What's with all those pseudo psychologists on this board?

It's a damn game.

 

He said Intellectual so all the intellectual's, thinking they are intellectuals, decided to see how much of an intellectual he really is. And to show how intellectual they consider themselves to be be, either suggested this wasn't an intelligent conversation at all or to decided to add something they considered to be intelligent in the hope of being considered an intellectual by the intellectuals.

[Jex 1104]

Rather long winded way of calling someone a cock but yeah! :)

[97ADU Doug 103]

You can't really be surprised that their is an increasingly high amount of hill snipers these days. Iv been playing dayz since april 2012. Iv done it all, and I can honestly say that the part I enjoy the most is exploring and the thrill of looting military hotspots for those juicy weapons. I like nothing more than setting out from cherno with my enfield/winnie, setting out for an adventure. But really, that aspect of the game is pointless today.

 

Lets set aside the 1.8 update adding high tier mill grade weapons in fire stations (which hopefully will be fixed soon). Lets look instead at the servers people play on these days. Im sure as you scroll through dayz commander you will see a bunch of empty servers, then you come across the server with 20-40 people on it, if you took time to read the description this is what they all say:

Dayz Chernarus 2 million+ vehicles and choppers+extra barracks in every town+24/7 day, spawn with makarov. Now does that sound like a survival experience to you? No. Because its not. Dayz has changed, the majority of the community enjoy these servers. These servers where there is no reason to leave the coast. All the gear can be found right there in cherno. So what do people do when they reach endgame in 5 minutes? Camp the nearest building/hill. A few months ago, these servers were around. However the classic survival vanilla servers still had people on them too. Such as AvA gaming and the balota buddies whitelist (those servers <3 in my heart forever haha). However the majority consisted of these modded 24/7 day extra barracks servers. Now, whenever i wanted to get some sniping practice, or just wanted a quick death match, id join these modded servers (such as BHR clans server). And yes id camp the hill/building with a DMR i found in the first 5 minutes. Because why the hell would I do anything else on a server like that? Clearly when the admins set 6 barracks per town, and made it day all the time with vehicles under every street lamp and so many choppers it was difficult to see any sky, they didn't expect people do venture up north, make a camp and have a night time barbie after a successful loot of nwaf. Why would you go to nwaf, when there's more loot in cherno?

 

Im straying of point here, what Im trying to say, is the hill sniper is everyone. Because there are no classic servers left anymore. These as i liked to call them back in the day "feral" servers are all thats left. So, players like me just sit back and wait for the SA. Occasionally when there's nothing to do, ill jump onto one of these servers and have a death match in cherno/elektro, whether I'm sniping people from a hill, or cutting them down with my axe. Just to keep my skills sharp

 

And thats why I camp the hill, not because i like seeing people rage, or I'm new and don't want to risk my gear, but because thats all there is to do now. I don't have to work for my gear, so I have no fear of losing it. The survival servers are gone. if you log onto a dayz server today with the intention of not death matching I'm afraid the sad truth is your kidding yourself.

 

PS: if anyone can find me a complete vanilla server with a player base of at least 20, I would love you.

 

TL;DR

All servers are edited, 24/7 day, spawn with gun, 2 million vehicles and choppers 6 barracks per town= no classic dayz gameplay. Camping hill/death matching is the only thing left. 

Edited October 1, 2013 by 97ADU Doug

[mercules 1290]

I do it for the pleasure I get of knowing that i've ruined someones day after losing literally hours of loot.

 

So you're a douche then? Got it. 

 

Lets set aside the 1.8 update adding high tier mill grade weapons in fire stations (which hopefully will be fixed soon). 

 

There was always a chance for High Tier Military Grade weapons to spawn there. I got my first DMR with 2 whole clips from a Firehall when I first started playing many updates ago. Then later I got an M4A1 CCO, AKs 74 Kobra, and such from firehalls. 

[Guest]

I killed a ghillie-suited sniper on Sniper Hill in Elektro with a crossbow once. I felt so fucking powerful. Took all his shit and made sure to tell him he was a scumbag before finally driving an arrow into his skull.

 

 

That's my job..............

[Gwraspe 318]

hillcampers are typically the same people that camp spawns and spawn kill repeatedly in games like counter-strike. they're retarded, have no skill or imagination and don't have anything better to do - they don't usually have many friends in game or out. by the way, i've never personally died to one of these douchers - i don't bother with elektro or cherno but rather run north the moment i spawn and gear up in places more discreet before heading to staryj or the likes

[Cormyr 39]

hillcampers are typically the same people that camp spawns and spawn kill repeatedly in games like counter-strike. they're retarded, have no skill or imagination and don't have anything better to do - they don't usually have many friends in game or out. by the way, i've never personally died to one of these douchers - i don't bother with elektro or cherno but rather run north the moment i spawn and gear up in places more discreet before heading to staryj or the likes

 

I just want to mention something I have noticed throughout this thread. People head north to avoid this kind of hill camper etc..

 

In SA, I should hope the loot is  #1 more rare and #2 more evenly dispersed across the map. Thus there will be no sticking to the north of the map and avoiding certain places. Players should have reasons to visit every location on the map, not just once, but  repeatedly. This will make being a hill camper very difficult. Everyone heading north is just making it easier for the camper..

 

This does not deal with all kos, but at least part of it.

 

ps - guilt is not the way to go to fix such an issue... it will never work.