Requested Post for SA Damage model Suggestion.

[mick17 93]

I will start off by saying this: I do not know how to code. (although I have with the help of tutorials) I am just taking what I already know about games, engines, variables, triggers, and things of the nature. I have spent some time in the mission editor in ArmA II and have designed a few maps for Portal in the Source engine. Other than that my knowledge has just been from reading and learning from what developers say.

Also I do not know what kind of damage model the VR Engine, or the Dayz version of the VR Engine use. I am assuming it using some form of hit boxes or the like.

So with all that said here is my idea!

I would create a hit box for the entire character and give it a max base damage number that could be done to the character if hit in that box. I would then code in variable damage numbers for different caliber weapons. Such as .22lr does significant less base damage than 30-06 or 7.62x54 or 51mm. Then for each caliber I would code in a steady decrease in damage after the effective range of the caliber in question. The max base damage would be the highest caliber weapon at optimal range for that round. It couldn't do more damage than that number.

I would then go on and create sub-hit boxes.

1. The head. (and within the head I would have two eye socket hit boxes, known as bullet funnels which would have a 100% chance of instant kill.) I would then code this hit box to be 99% chance of instant kill and the 1% is the extremely rare survival of being shot in the head. Although you would be knocked unconscious in that last 1% and be very disoriented for a long time and die if you weren't immediately treated.

2. The neck. Pretty much a 100% instant kill box due to the windpipe and jugular vein.

3. The heart, Another maybe 98% instant kill chance.

4. The lungs/chest cavity. would be like a 30% chance instant kill. If you survive you would have very injured lungs. You would have chances of collapsing lungs, air filling your chest cavity etc... (Not up on what happens when you are shot in the lung.)

5. The stomach/intestine/kidneys/liver area. If not treated very quickly would kill you in say a half hour due to toxins and internal bleeding.

6. The femoral artery. If you hit in this box it has a 93% chance of hitting the actual artery and causing death in about a minute and a half due to massive blood loss. Could be treated with a tourniquet.

Now these sub hit boxes do not cover the whole body, which is what the hit box for the entire character is for. You would have to code in that if any of the sub hit boxes were hit the entire character hit box damage would be null and it would apply the sub hit box damage + variable or variables that you coded in. That way you could be shot in the arm but it doesn't kill you.

You could make boxes for the arms and legs if you wanted to and add variables to those as well. Leaving extremely small areas of the entire character hit box left where there is just skin. Basically leave that for puncture wounds. Kind of like the edge of your side down near your waist? It's pretty much skin there and would end up being a puncture wound.

Obviously you would have to come up with realistic variables for the hit boxes.

Just a rough idea! Hope it gives the developers some ideas.

Edited June 20, 2013 by mick17

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

Yes.

Excellent.

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

A great idea, hoping to see this to get some serious attention on..

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

At first it sounded kinda dull. (Because it was posted prematurely, like you said.)

But.. I am impressed. This would be a fine compliment to the realistic disease/treatment system.

[TacticalN29 89]

I also like this idea as it would provide another layer of realism. After all DayZ is a survival simulator with some zombies thrown in.

[mick17 93]

It would obviously need refined. I kinda just put it down in the roughest form.

[mick17 93]

Btw feel free to comment or suggest improvements!

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Off Topic

haven't made it all the way through the post yet but I just want to mention that .30-06 is my favorite caliber. I just love saying it.

thirty ought six ^_^

alright, continue

[Fuzzy Wolfy 41]

Hit boxes are a tricky thing to correctly code and then animate. Unless you're being chased by the scariest fucking thing alive - a T posed zombie - then someone will need to make sure every separate hit box is moving accordingly with the model.

Not to mention, zombies in DayZ are already spastic as all hell and are a pain to shoot if you're aiming to be as economic as possible. Keyword; shoot.

However, I very much like this idea of ultra realistic damage implementation. I'd love to have some form of added realism to injuries like a collapsed lung or a gouged eye, though it's incredibly doubtful that any of this will be added simply because it's an extremely complicated addition.

I mean. In the apocalypse, where would you seek help for a collapsed lung or non-lethal ballistic head injury? ... Unless, along with this, there's the added possibility of creating field hospitals.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Alright On Topic lets go.

I have been playing War Thunder recently. It is an air combat simulator that tries to recreate accurate WWII air combat.

That game features extremely detailed damage models for each plane. You can hit fuel tanks, oil lines, coolant lines, the engine (which is divided into components further), wings, ailerons, rudders, elevators, gear hydraulics and legs, the fuselage, the canopy/windscreen, and finally the pilot/crew too.

In the game planes' don't really have hit points, but rather components.

The human body doesn't have hit points either.

If Gaijin could make accurate Damage Models for the hundreds of planes in their game, I think DayZ devs/Bohemia could for their characters too.

It is definitely possible.

Humans are actually surprisingly tough and, like vermin, are pretty hard to kill. Unlike like horses and other quadrupeds that are as good as dead with a broken leg, humans can go on with broken parts for long periods of time :)

But bullets are very lethal and one can cause tremendous amounts of damage. I would be very disappointed if a human in DayZ could walk/run away from three chest shots from 9x18mm Makarov without assistance or grievous wounds like you can in the Mod.

Gews and I have had long discussion about this :lol:

So yes I hope that the damage model for humans is very detailed and appropriately lethal. Someone shouldn't die instantly from a rifle bullet to the pinky toe. They also shouldn't die from a bullet the skims through a little skin or hits your ear.

Wouldn't it be amazing to see a one eared player? The stories would be great and highly immersive/authentic. Seeing a player who can hardly walk because a week ago he/she was shot in the leg by 7.62x39mm Soviet.

Or a player who can only wield weapons in his left hand because his right was clawed by several zombies at once.

Or the piece de la resistance, saving a wounded guy who is suffering from a critical hit to the chest by using tourniquets, bandages, maxipads :D , morphine and epinephrine and walking away after successfully saving the guy, covered in your comrades blood :thumbsup:

I hope well will see this kind of attention to detail. Personally wound detail are much more important than vehicles and underground stuff

Edited June 22, 2013 by Vindicator

[mick17 93]

Definitely would be awesome to see that level of detail! It would add immersion plus it would be downright cool to have battle scars like that in-game. 30-06 is fun to say... to me once you get the hitboxes working properly at a base level you ccould just take your time over the course of development and continue to add consequences for being shot. There would always have to be a treatment implemented as well. But like you said I think some should only be able to be done with all the right equipment. Que up SURGERY SIMULATOR!

[mick17 93]

http://www.surgeonsimulator2013.com/m.index.html

[m.w. vindicator 880]

http://www.surgeonsi...om/m.index.html

Heard about that game, haven't tried it though haha

[mick17 93]

Neither have I..

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

even on web there are available flash versions of the game c.c

[TacticalN29 89]

Humans are actually surprisingly tough and, like vermin, are pretty hard to kill. Unlike like horses and other quadrupeds that are as good as dead with a broken leg, humans can go on with broken parts for long periods of time :)

But bullets are very lethal and one can cause tremendous amounts of damage. I would be very disappointed if a human in DayZ could walk/run away from three chest shots from 9x18mm Makarov without assistance or grievous wounds like you can in the Mod.

While I agree that humans are quite tough, you could easily survive three 9x18mm shots to the chest. Don't believe me? Read this: http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

Now if you don't want to read that I'll give you the short version. A cop shot a criminal 14 times with .45ACP. Six of these shots went into the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney. The firefight ended with the cop putting a round through the top of the criminals skull into his brain, along with one on each side of his mouth. While that's where the firefight ended, the criminal survived the wait until the EMT's got there and survived the ride back to the hospital where he then died.

[WBK 176]

A cop shot a criminal 14 times with .45ACP. Six of these shots went into the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney. The firefight ended with the cop putting a round through the top of the criminals skull into his brain, along with one on each side of his mouth. While that's where the firefight ended, the criminal survived the wait until the EMT's got there and survived the ride back to the hospital where he then died.

Admittedly, three shots is alot less than 14, and 9x18mm is smaller than .45. Having said that, even you can surely accept that the story above is the exception and not the rule. And anyway, even with paramedics, the dude practically died instantly. In an apocalypse, the time would be much shorter, if not instant. But that's the beauty of the hitbox system: the % allow for extremely rare survival scenarios. I really hope this gets implemented.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Roy Benavidez

Nearly dead from a total of 37 separate bayonet, bullet and shrapnel wounds received on multiple occasions over the course of the six hour fight between the 13 men and an enemy battalion...

I know over another guy who topped his wound count...read something about a couple of bullet wounds and over 200 penetrations from multiple grenades, losing 60% of his blood etc...

Another guy crawled a couple of miles to a highway after beeing shot in the head 2 or 3 times with a .357 if i remember right.

There are exceptions but most people would really drop when hit in the vitals.

It's difficult to actually impossible to simulate such a komplex system if you don't have a supercomputer even if the game supports it. You could add small hit zones for vitals and execute the effects when they are hit, otherweise you would have to rely on hitpoints or similar stuff.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Enforcer

[TacticalN29 89]

Admittedly, three shots is alot less than 14, and 9x18mm is smaller than .45. Having said that, even you can surely accept that the story above is the exception and not the rule. And anyway, even with paramedics, the dude practically died instantly. In an apocalypse, the time would be much shorter, if not instant. But that's the beauty of the hitbox system: the % allow for extremely rare survival scenarios. I really hope this gets implemented.

This admittedly is the exception to the rule. But as you said the percentages give it a chance of survival.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

This admittedly is the exception to the rule. But as you said the percentages give it a chance of survival.

Yeah. 3 rounds of 9x18mm Makarov to the chest w/o body armor should be fatal about 75% of the time or so. And of the 75% of the time where the shots are fatal, only about half of the time should it be instantly fatal. 25% of the time the person will live with some medical attention.

Someone who is fatally shot could possibly survive for another hour or so, but really no amount of medical attention could save them in the long run if they have severely punctured lungs, heart damage/ major artery damage, of intestinal damage, etc

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I like this idea, especially since you could easily tie it into the "study body" function. I'd really like to see a system similar to America's Army, where you can see all the specific sort of injuries a person has, like arterial hemorrhaging, collapsed lungs, lacerations, ect.

[-Gews- 7443]

Someone who is fatally shot could possibly survive for another hour or so, but really no amount of medical attention could save them in the long run if they have severely punctured lungs, heart damage/ major artery damage, of intestinal damage, etc

This would be amusing, can you imagine the tears and frustration? :lol:

[TacticalN29 89]

This would be amusing, can you imagine the tears and frustration? :lol:

Yep! It would be sweet!

[mick17 93]

I like this idea, especially since you could easily tie it into the "study body" function. I'd really like to see a system similar to America's Army, where you can see all the specific sort of injuries a person has, like arterial hemorrhaging, collapsed lungs, lacerations, ect.

I agree! That was a fairly good system. I would like to see less direction and instructions though... learn by trial and error on test subjects that you kidnapped. Muwahahaha!!

[applejaxc 2500]

Rocket has said several times that he has commented out (in layman's terms, removed) all of ArmA's codes for damage so he can redo it. Wait and see what system he comes up with in the devblogs. Until then, posts like this should pause for a bit.