No more 50 cals!

[Xianyu 820]

Meh, I shot someone either two or three times with a CZ550 at 960 meters and he kept running around. Didn't die.

I want something in a larger caliber... the minimum would be .300 Win Mag or thereabouts. 3 round magazine, more recoil, slightly longer reload. I want it.

960 metres.

There's your problem right there.

The 50's were the only rifles viable for such 'extreme' shooting. Try moving closer if you're using a 7.62. Anywhere within 500 metres should be a knock out with a single round.

[Inception. 9443]

Do you even Littlebird?

Sure, it can't take a hit from a 5.56 but it turns on a freaking dime.

Yes. But I still prefer the UH-1H.

[-Gews- 7443]

960 metres.

There's your problem right there.

The 50's were the only rifles viable for such 'extreme' shooting. Try moving closer if you're using a 7.62. Anywhere within 500 metres should be a knock out with a single round.

Meh... I do two kinds of sniping:

1. Serious shit - no fooling around, the goal is to kill them.

2. Fun shit - totally fooling around, the goal is to get the longest kill.

I wasn't interested in the .50s for sniping type #2 because I felt it was far too easy with the 1,000-1,100m view distance (at least on stationary targets). But on the other hand, doing it with a 7.62 is too hard...

Hence why I want a .338 / .300 so bad... this is the perfect opportunity to introduce a new rifle.

7.62 at 1000 m = 146 gr, 960 ft/s, 300 ft-lbs energy

.300 at 1000 m = 190 gr, 1280 ft/s, 690 ft-lbs energy

Not a one-shot kill at any range (perhaps point-blank). More importantly, bolt action, high-powered fixed-magnification scope and with a 3-round magazine. Not OP.

Iwannitiwannitiwannit.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Gews

[leviski 2152]

walk for five minutes and find a helicopter, an as50 and night vision goggles?

YOURE WINNER!

shut up you idiot i didnt even mention anything about buying in game items.

You're

Edited May 22, 2013 by leviski

[leviski 2152]

walk for five minutes and find a helicopter, an as50 and night vision goggles?

YOURE WINNER!

shut up you idiot i didnt even mention anything about buying in game items.

And I was referencing to WarZ how there is no loot on the map because they want you to pay real gold (money) to buy it

Edited May 22, 2013 by leviski

[elf cakes 559]

You're

i dont even know what to say. what are you, ten? forum mods are you reading this? Edited May 22, 2013 by elf cakes

[-Gews- 7443]

I'm not sure I like the MOTIVATION behind the removal though.

I'm not sure I like the MOTIVATION behind the removal though.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Gews

[nL.Jason 8]

This would be nice, no?

We share our love for the lapua brother

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

or we could learn to shoot people in the head. I know that's gonna be my new 'go to' method.

Oh Gawd!

Sorry can't take anything you say seriously after that shite!

[Xianyu 820]

Oh Gawd!

Sorry can't take anything you say seriously after that shite!

Why is this a problem?

I don't aim for the head. Not consciously. I try to hit my targets centre-mass. And when I'm using a sniper rifle that does 39,000 blood damage on a BAD DAY, that's perfectly acceptable.

But with an M24 or a DMR, shooting someone in the head is an instant kill. No alt +F4 when you're instantly dead. At least, I should hope not.

where's the problem? Because if any of this seems too difficult or unrealistic to you in any way, I suggest you spend more time in the shooting range.

[-Gews- 7443]

where's the problem?

The problem is where you don't want to be hit in ArmA:

And this is where you don't want to be hit in real life:

Because if any of this seems too difficult or unrealistic to you in any way, I suggest you spend more time in the shooting range.

The Shooting Range is super - I can kill a soldier in 1 or 2 chest hits at 800 meters. DayZ players aren't ArmA soldiers. They have bloated health... it would take 4 shots no matter what. Come on, that's a bit absurd...

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Oh look another Xianyu post where the poster rants and calls everyone fucking idiots for having a difference of opinion.

[Xianyu 820]

Oh look another Xianyu post where the poster rants and calls everyone fucking idiots for having a difference of opinion.

Oh look, someone who mistakes heated arguments as personal attacks and back it up with passive-aggressive douchebaggery :D

The Shooting Range is super - I can kill a soldier in 1 or 2 chest hits at 800 meters. DayZ players aren't ArmA soldiers. They have bloated health... it would take 4 shots no matter what. Come on, that's a bit absurd...

Move. Closer.

Do we really need a weapon that hits beyond 800 metres with an ensured kill/knockout?

The CZ550 and the M24 both have effective ranges of 800 metres. Please, tell me a situation where you would be fired from, at ranges of over 800 metres, where you would need to kill them to be able to move?

With no 50's, the effective range of ANY weapon in the game is a maximum of 800 metres. Bar the SVD Camo, which has an effective range of 1200 metres, and is retardedly rare.

Simple fact is, if you're sniping from beyond 800 metres, you aren't doing it for looting purposes or protection purposes, you're doing it for sport.

When I'm overwatch for my friends, the furthest away I get is 400 metres or so.

In my opinion, the only time you'll even engage an enemy at 800 metres or more is when you want to. Not when you need to.

Within 400-500 metres, which is definitely an acceptable sniper range, the M24, DMR, and CZ550 will put someone on the ground with a round to the chest, and will kill them with a headshot.

And if someone is firing on you from over 1000 metres with anything other than a 50? Point at him and laugh. Because he's doing it wrong.

P.S. I'm pretty sure a shot from a sniper rifle to the head is a OHK regardless of the range.

If I get into a one-in-a-million point of needing to shoot someone beyond 800 metres, I'm STILL going to aim for the face. Closer range just makes it that much easier.

Practise on goats/cows. Or, you know, those pesky zombies.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Xianyu

[Kebab Remover 110]

Oh look, someone who mistakes heated arguments as personal attacks and back it up with passive-aggressive douchebaggery :D

Move. Closer.

Do we really need a weapon that hits beyond 800 metres with an ensured kill/knockout?

The CZ550 and the M24 both have effective ranges of 800 metres. Please, tell me a situation where you would be fired from, at ranges of over 800 metres, where you would need to kill them to be able to move?

With no 50's, the effective range of ANY weapon in the game is a maximum of 800 metres. Bar the SVD Camo, which has an effective range of 1200 metres, and is retardedly rare.

Simple fact is, if you're sniping from beyond 800 metres, you aren't doing it for looting purposes or protection purposes, you're doing it for sport.

When I'm overwatch for my friends, the furthest away I get is 400 metres or so.

In my opinion, the only time you'll even engage an enemy at 800 metres or more is when you want to. Not when you need to.

Within 400-500 metres, which is definitely an acceptable sniper range, the M24, DMR, and CZ550 will put someone on the ground with a round to the chest, and will kill them with a headshot.

And if someone is firing on you from over 1000 metres with anything other than a 50? Point at him and laugh. Because he's doing it wrong.

P.S. I'm pretty sure a shot from a sniper rifle to the head is a OHK regardless of the range.

If I get into a one-in-a-million point of needing to shoot someone beyond 800 metres, I'm STILL going to aim for the face. Closer range just makes it that much easier.

Practise on goats/cows. Or, you know, those pesky zombies.

Not that you had a legitimacy before this, but you've lost it now.

You want me to get closer and endanger myself when I can happily and with finesse make my kills at range?

Please, do you even know how small the human head is at 800+?

[Xianyu 820]

Not that you had a legitimacy before this, but you've lost it now.

You want me to get closer and endanger myself when I can happily and with finesse make my kills at range?

Please, do you even know how small the human head is at 800+?

Which is why you have to practise.

Or move closer.

When the max range of all weapons is 800 metres bar one single rifle, either find that rifle, or move closer. Adapt to changing circumstances. Stop playing like you have this magical zone of death that stretches the entire view distance around you. Learn to use cover when approaching towns so that you can GET within the optimal range of your sniper rifle before you expose yourself to anyone inside the town.

Furthermore, the CZ and the M24 both have zeroing up to 800 metres. So you know how hard it is to hit a target at 800 metres?

Try this. Push 'page up' until the zeroing reads '800', put the crosshairs DIRECTLY on their head, and pull the trigger. Maybe adjust up and down a little bit if they're not exactly 800 metres away. That's where practise and skill come into play. You know, the two things that aren't required by the wonder-wand 50 cals.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Xianyu

[-Gews- 7443]

Which is why you have to practise.

:lol: this is Kebab you're talking to.

Bar the SVD Camo, which has an effective range of 1200 metres, and is retardedly rare.

Meh, I've used it a lot in Wasteland, I'd say effective range is 700 max. Probably less in DayZ. A 4x zoom doesn't help with sniping.

Anyways I don't see why one would oppose long-range rifles (other than .50s), provided they come with their own (significant) disadvantages, much as in real life.

[Kebab Remover 110]

OOOOH!

I've been sniping wrong for all these months, thanks for enlightening me.

And the SVD camo is barely effective beyond 800, that far out is already insane for it's poor quality of zoom. I would happily let the .50s go if they gave us another one hit kill weapon out to at least 900m, so I don't have to pump 4 rounds into somebody to kill them whilst they have all the time in the world (1 sec TTT x 4 + bolt action) to seek some form of cover or concealment, especially if I'm shooting at a moving target.

(Pro tip, for a .50 at about 800-900 at a sprinting target is upwards of 4 mildot leading depending on elevation changes.

[Xianyu 820]

OOOOH!

I've been sniping wrong for all these months, thanks for enlightening me.

And the SVD camo is barely effective beyond 800, that far out is already insane for it's poor quality of zoom. I would happily let the .50s go if they gave us another one hit kill weapon out to at least 900m, so I don't have to pump 4 rounds into somebody to kill them whilst they have all the time in the world (1 sec TTT x 4 + bolt action) to seek some form of cover or concealment, especially if I'm shooting at a moving target.

(Pro tip, for a .50 at about 800-900 at a sprinting target is upwards of 4 mildot leading depending on elevation changes.

Which is why I'm saying 'adapt and overcome' to the lack of 50 rifles. I'm going to have to do the same thing.

But every disadvantage foisted on you by the loss of the 50's is the same disadvantage foisted on others.

Sometimes, you might spot someone in the distance through your binoculars that are just unfeasible for you to fire at. At which point, take cover so you're not seen, and move closer, until you can fire at them. If you've been sniping as long as you say you have, you should be a decent enough shot by now that 400-600 metre shots aren't an impossibility. And that's still a damn long way away.

I've never had my hands on the SVD, I'll be perfectly honest. I don't go anywhere near the barracks because I feel that it is a stupid, stupid ridiculously stupid map design to have the rarest weapons and equipment appear in two static locations only a few hundred metres from eachother, that are five rooms with a single entry point to the building.

So I've stuck with the AS50 and the M107 because they're the best at super long range work.

But the question still remains.

At what point in DayZ are you going to be firing on someone from more than 900 metres away unless you're trying to set the engagement range at that distance? Even if you're camping, waiting for someone; defending; moving into a town across a superhuge open field (which is fucking stupid in the first place), the argument of move closer still pretty much sums up your options.

And I think it creates an interesting game dynamic. You can spot people further out than you can comfortably kill them. I think that's pretty true to the real world, as well. Just because you can see someone at 900 metres away, doesn't mean you kill them.

Adapt.

[-Gews- 7443]

Even if you're camping, waiting for someone; defending; moving into a town across a superhuge open field (which is fucking stupid in the first place), the argument of move closer still pretty much sums up your options.

Okay... yes, one should ideally move to a range which balances effectiveness with safety.

However...

Removing a weapon that arguably more than half of all players use to get an unfair advantage at every range. There is no better definition of a 'game changer'. The assault rifles are viable again! \o/

....what is the problem you seem to see with adding a longer ranged bolt action rifle in a magnum cartridge?

[Kebab Remover 110]

Sorry, but anything shorter than 500m is not considered sniping.

You seem to be telling everyone who counter argues you that they should play differently which is stupidity, the reason we all love DayZ is that you can play any way you god damn please.

Answer the points people making instead of re-iterating yourself after you have been disproven.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese (DayZ) 71]

Sorry, but anything shorter than 500m is not considered sniping.

Are you trying to tell me that I should be using an AR for ranges between 300-500 meters? Good luck hitting anything like that. Not even the AKM/SA-58 can hit accurately at that distance, even with zeroing. Gews can point you to his threads explaining that.

I also like that you are avoiding their questions by telling them that you can do whatever you want. Sure, you can, but that isn't going to last without a .50.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Dreams_Of_Cheese

[Xianyu 820]

Sorry, but anything shorter than 500m is not considered sniping.

You seem to be telling everyone who counter argues you that they should play differently which is stupidity, the reason we all love DayZ is that you can play any way you god damn please.

Answer the points people making instead of re-iterating yourself after you have been disproven.

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. You should play differently. This is not a matter of different taste or different playstyles, this is a matter of the weapon that facilitated long-range engagement beyond 600 metres being removed from the game completely.

It's like saying 'oh look, all the melee weapons have been removed' and you sitting there going 'well I'm still going to run at people and melee them ANYWAY' and me saying '... are you fucking stupid?'

With no .50 cals, you are either going to have to A) change your gamestyle, or B) waste your ammunition hitting targets 4 times in the chest and watching them retreat to cover because you're deliberately engaging targets outside of the optimal range of the weapon.

Yes, you can play any goddamn way you please. You can run around with a makarov. You can be a badass with a crowbar. You can kill zombies. You can kill players. You can use your fucking sniper rifle as a snorkel for all I care.

But without 50 cals in the game, you cannot then sit there and say 'well I don't have a one-hit wonder wand any more, these guns suck at anything above 800 metres away' and then, when someone tells you, repeatedly, that your only option is to move closer, refute that by saying 'oh but that's not sniping'.

When they remove the 50 cals you will have to play the game differently.

Put a teaspoon of cement in a glass of water and harden the fuck up.

The days of easy sniping beyond 800 metres are numbered. At least for now.

Okay... yes, one should ideally move to a range which balances effectiveness with safety.

However...

....what is the problem you seem to see with adding a longer ranged bolt action rifle in a magnum cartridge?

I have no problem with long-range sniper rifles. So long as they're not game-breaking. The AS50 was the definition of game breaking. Super accurate at super ranges, a super long range scope, instant OHK no matter where it hits you, negligible recoil allowing follow-up shots from a semi-automatic platform, ability to accept two different types of ammunition, destroys vehicles, doubles as a close-range semi-auto assault rifle... and even though it's 'rare' over half of all people have one and at least 90% of the user base wants one because it's so ridiculously better than every other weapon.

Yeah, and people wonder why I have a problem with the AS50.

The problem I have with long-range, 'wonder wands' in Arma is that there's no skill to their use.

Find the range.

Push some keys.

Put the crosshairs on them.

Click your mouse.

???

Profit!

And this problem was massively, massively compounded by the AS50, because it's a semi-auto OHK. And the Chernarus map itself is pretty much an open field with some tree cover every now and again. I've seen more vegetations in the arid countryside of Australia, AFTER scrub pulling for cattle grazing.

A bolt-action lupua with an effective range of 1000M or so would be pretty nice. But it would still be abused.

Skill + ability + practise >>>>>>>>>> game mechanics.

And right now, game mechanics count at least five times as much as personal skill, ability, or practise.

I just think that if you want to kill someone at 1000 metres, then you should be fucking good at the game. Not fucking good at combing loot spots until you find a rifle that does it all for you.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Xianyu

[-Gews- 7443]

I have no problem with long-range sniper rifles. So long as they're not game-breaking.

Mmmm you sure seem to have one. I agree with the AS50 comment.

Whatever. When 1.7.7 hits I'm gonna try to kill someone at 1,000 meters with a 7.62 and see how it goes. Screw moving closer. :ph34r:

I shall bring offerings to Jehovah in the hope R4Z0R will see fit to add a .300 / .338 Magnum.

[colekern 1364]

If they added ACE-mod levels of sniping realism to this game, I'd be the first to ask for the 50's to be added back in, OHK and all.

I would also be the first person to dance in place when I get fired on from over 500 metres by some twelve year old. Because they wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

I'm sorry, but what? Have you ever watched me play BF3? Were you there when I was trolling a guy using the Mavevator by headshotting him WHILE he was ascending on top of his stupid little machine? I was recon/sniper because that's what I love to do. I'm the guy with the laser designator copping shit from enemy helicopters because I'm an asshole. And I played as part of a squad where my role was accepted AND useful. If they needed a target down that was causing them shit, I was the guy that did it.

But hey, you know heaps of other BF3 players.

Furthermore, your arguments are pure bullshit.

'made yourself an easy target'? Uh... huh.

So let me get this straight. Because I crawled/walk/ran into a town where some sniper is sitting watching, from 500+ metres away, I made myself an 'easy target'? I'm afraid that EVERYONE is an easy target when you have a 50 cal sniper rifle. I should know, I've been the one watching more often than not.

I think you'll find that a stationary sniper, laying down on his stomach, in the grass, is pretty much fucking impossible to spot from beyond 300 metres. Unless he's moving. And only stupid people turn their entire character's body instead of just moving their head with the ctrl key. And that's if the sniper is just laying down. If he's in a tree, it's even worse.

So I'm supposed to have 'situational awareness' over the entire map at all times? Uh... huh.

Tell you what. Pick a server. Get a friend (or make one, somehow), give this friend an AS50 and a ghillie suit, and have him camp SOMEWHERE on the map. Now try find him.

Good fucking luck.

By your logic, he should show up with a giant red bullseye the moment we get within 500 metres of him.

I KNOW where snipers camp and a lot of times I have trouble finding them.

No amount of 'tactics and brains' will beat a sniper laying in the grass with an AS50. Not in this mod. And if you think it does, then you are an incredibly, incredibly stupid person. Why? Because snipers can be on any hill, anywhere. Sure, there are some favorite spots. But they're not the be-all, end-all of sniping points. On top of buildings. On top of hills. The smart ones don't lay on the crests. The smart ones lay in the fields where they aren't silhouetted against the backdrop of the horizon or the sky.

The smart snipers are what we should be worried about.

The smart players should be the ones that beat us.

You should be thinking 'There's a guy out with there a .50 cal and he knows how to use it! I'm gonna DIE!'

Not 'there's a guy out there with a 50 cal, I'm gonna die!'

It's a subtle difference, and one I don't expect you to get through your skull any time soon, or even ever.

But it makes all the difference in the world to the people who play the game as it's meant to be, and not as a dumbed-down sniping simulation.

And you're right, playing a videogame for X amount of hours doesn't entitle me to shit. But it sure as fuck will make me better at it than someone who didn't play it that often. But you seem to think that that's an 'unfair advantage'. You talk about the slippery slope of 'weapon removal' like 'OMFG THEY'RE GONNA REMOVE EVERYTHING AND WE WON'T HAVE ANY MORE GUNS ANY MORE WAAAAH'

But to be perfectly honest, I'm not bothered with that argument. Because it's fucking stupid.

I'm far more frightened of people like you that think that all game mechanics should be dumbed down so that people who practise and hone their abilities are on the same footing as someone who only played for an hour.

That is fucking frightening.

Do us all a favor and calm down, like, a lot.

Edited May 23, 2013 by colekern

[Inception. 9443]

Keep this civil please. Play nice.