Will Snipers Be Removed Or At Least Tweaked In S.A?

[dulix11 731]

Soldiers carry an equipment of 23kg (even more sometimes) and they do run for 10 km straight. Get out of your chairs people and see some of the real world from time to time...

Its a game. You aren't playing as soldiers either, you are a civilian. Last time I checked, most people aren't familiar with killing other people and flesh-hungry zombies. Soldiers go through training to get where they are, these guys have woken up one day to find their home country is taken over by monstrous zombies. Get back IN your chair and play some DayZ from time to time....

Edited April 21, 2013 by dulix11

[p4triot 207]

Its a game. You aren't playing as soldiers either, you are a civilian. Last time I checked, most people aren't familiar with killing other people and flesh-hungry zombies. Soldiers go through training to get where they are, these guys have woken up one day to find their home country is taken over by monstrous zombies. Get back IN your chair and play some DayZ from time to time....

oh, so because there's a lot of lazy people out there I have to stand with a character that can't do shit just because most people can't?

And what about height, hair, fat? shouldn't my char and most of them be bald, shortish and fatty??

No sir, we already have enough of this IRL. Don't put this limitations ingame, ingame you're a bastard with high genetics/training. And the rest depends on your skill using it. As Rocket said, what a character can do ingame it is because his owner can, but as you can't run 10km for him, you char must be able to do that by himself.

If you want to add realism to this, you could just say those who aren't capable of running 10km are already zombified. Which I find quite logic actually with those Usain Bolt zombies we have here.

[dulix11 731]

oh, so because there's a lot of lazy people out there I have to stand with a character that can't do shit just because most people can't?

And what about height, hair, fat? shouldn't my char and most of them be bald, shortish and fatty??

I don't get what you mean. The characters in DayZ are civilians. They don't have military experience, they aren't in top physical condition. They aren't battle-ready. They are just everyday people. It shouldn't be so complicated as to incorporate height and hair and fat. Its just a waste of time.

No sir, we already have enough of this IRL. Don't put this limitations ingame, ingame you're a bastard with high genetics/training. And the rest depends on your skill using it. As Rocket said, what a character can do ingame it is because his owner can, but as you can't run 10km for him, you char must be able to do that by himself.

Again, I don't understand. Are you saying that ingame you already are ready to use weapons like a soldier and be so fit as to run 10km with 20kg of gear? Go and find 10 people, attach 20kg of gear to them, get them to run 10km and tell me how that goes.

If you want to add realism to this, you could just say those who aren't capable of running 10km are already zombified. Which I find quite logic actually with those Usain Bolt zombies we have here.

Which they are nerfing. There won't be superman zombies in the SA. Its still an alpha, I'll have you know. The zombies are basically humans with different skins.

[p4triot 207]

Im a civilian. I can run 8km with 15kg of extra weight. Maybe I could run 10km also, didn't try. I don't think I could do it with 25kg but hell, Im sure I would be able if I train enough.

However, I am not able to snipe as a professional. This why my char shouldn't be able to do that as it is now in the mod, it is upon the player to learn to counter against bullet drop, wind, ammunition type and so on. Player must be able to do that, if you are the average person, you won't, if you're above the average, have fun :)

But regarding endurance, how can you add a mechanic for the player to be capable of translate endurace to their chars? Most likely you can't, an as you can't, why I have to stick up with a lazy char that can't do shit just because most civilians can't? Aren't those who do can the most suitable for survive in this scenario? But we negate his existence and remove them from the game completely because... what reason?

We shouldn't stick to the average person just because they're the average. Average are dead, average are zombies. You survived until today because you're above the average. And then, the game starts. You have all you need to survive, would you know how to use it?

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

I agree that most, if not all, of the scoped rifles should be rarer. Much rarer. Like the helicopters of firearms. Or maybe include a thing where you could find a weapon, but it has no bolt? Or maybe 55% of weapons will be in bad shape and will require servicing to get working properly. You can't run with a 12kg rifle on your back for 10km straight. You should be fatigued much, much quicker.

Fatigue should not be more of a factor in this game then what is already in the game currently. If you were to run a short ways and then suddenly not be able to run, then you'd have the zombies on you in a heart beat, making you bleed with one swipe, and breaking your leg on the second swipe, and then eating you to death while you try to crawl away, because you couldn't run very far. Let's just shoot the zombies you're trying to run away from you say? Bam! Great! Now I have 10 more zombies coming after me. Better shoot those to! Great another 10 zombies! Better shoot those! Boom! You've been shot in the head by someone near by who heard all those shots you just took!

People need to get off this high horse crap of realism in the game. Realism is all well and good, but not at the expense of the playability of the game. If you want the game to be realistic, and us not be able to run for very long, or far, with a big honkin sniper gun, or LMG, then you need to take a look at all the other UNREALISTIC things we do in the game. Because all you're doing is complaining about SNIPERs because you don't want to learn the tactics to counter them.

Unrealistic things in game that allow the game to be playable with the design of the game:

1. Average Joe being able to fix all helicopters they see. And in a record amount of time.

2. Average Joe being able to stuff up to two Main Rotor's in a large backpack, and one on their main inventory. You don't think that should prevent a player from even walking? Or the many other large items that can be put into your inventory and then run around without any impact? I'm sure Main Rotor's weigh hundreds of pounds. Engine's can way a couple hundred pounds, yet we're able to tote those around with no problems. Yet you want to complain about sniper rifles? Brilliant!

3. Average Joe being able to shoot Morphine into their system to fix a broken leg. How the fuck does Morphine fix a broken leg? It's a game design to allow you to have a fix for the broken leg, so that you don't always have to die and respawn just for a broken leg. You want realistic? Lets make it so that you have to splint your leg, and then you can only move at 10% of your original speed for 1 hour before it heals. Think that will go over well with the community? Why not? It's realistic!

4. Average Joe being able to give a blood transfusion to a buddy. How is this realistic when you can go to a hospital and find a bag of blood that has been sitting on the ground for.... how long? And not even in a fridge no less to keep it cool. No idea of the blood type and if it even matches the blood type of your buddy.

5. How about the fact that this is a zombie apocolypse! The game isn't even based on a realistic scenario.

6. How about the fact that if you die, you get to respawn! That's not realistic. If you die you shouldn't be allowed to respawn, because after all, you're dead. You should only get 1 life per game purchase. Make it count!

Fact is, there are so many unrealistic things in this game that allow you to play the game in a way that makes it playable, and enjoyable.

Fixing a helicopter would take a specialist, a specialized shop, and hours upon hours to fix, if not days. Yet we can get them working in the field, by just driving up with a car full of parts and less then 5 minutes of your time repairing. Then you're airborn. Did your character even know how to fly??? How the fuck?? He should of crashed!

If you're going to complain about snipers, sniper guns and their weight, then lets complain about you toting around that engine that's supposed to weigh 100x heavier than that sniper gun I got on my back.

And for the record, I can run a long ass ways with my hunting rifle and backpack full of gear. I've done it before where I had to run over a mile non-stop to get into a shooting position on a deer before sunlight ran out. And I was still able to take to calm myself enough to make the shot count. If I can do it in real life, shouldn't I be able to do it in this video game? After all, you're preaching about realism!

[mushroom911 14]

OI, OI! when did this thread derail and become realism general, this is getting out of hand.

all I meant when I said I like features like the fatigue one is that I found surreal that I could have 4 engines in my inventory and run from elektro to lopatino in 30 minutes.

AND BY THAT I MEANT: weight should slow you down more.

[rn_max 202]

I've rarely encountered any self-labelled "snipers" in game, in fact only one and he was a daft kid ... which is not unusual. Sniper rifle equals large magical penis to adolescents, who fuel pretty much all of these discussions. The affliction may be related to acne, bedroom dwelling and shouty metal music. Then perhaps I was afflicted with similar traits briefly in my youth.

In game I've been missed by a handful of what I presume were premature long range shots and only ever been hit twice, by DMR's and then from not much more than 200m. Once I was killed when ambushed by an NVG wearing camper, who used all his ammo to finish me (the empty DMR was found on my corpse) and once I rode away on an ATV with a wound and minor vehicle damage at NEAF.

Too much noise over too small a subject.

[Pokerguy12 218]

I've rarely encountered any self-labelled "snipers" in game, in fact only one and he was a daft kid ... which is not unusual. Sniper rifle equals large magical penis to adolescents, who fuel pretty much all of these discussions. The affliction may be related to acne, bedroom dwelling and shouty metal music. Then perhaps I was afflicted with similar traits briefly in my youth.

In game I've been missed by a handful of what I presume were premature long range shots and only ever been hit twice, by DMR's and then from not much more than 200m. Once I was killed when ambushed by an NVG wearing camper, who used all his ammo to finish me (the empty DMR was found on my corpse) and once I rode away on an ATV with a wound and minor vehicle damage at NEAF.

Too much noise over too small a subject.

Let them fuel it all they want, increases the chance of this issue getting noticed by devs.

[mushroom911 14]

I have only been " Sniped " once, someone before me mentioned some rules and protocol to follow to not get sniped, follow that.

I recommend to all the bambis who keep baawing about snipers to read themselves some modern infantry tactics, fireteam tactics and such.

Also get a friend to team with.

that is all.

[Pokerguy12 218]

I have only been " Sniped " once, someone before me mentioned some rules and protocol to follow to not get sniped, follow that.

I recommend to all the bambis who keep baawing about snipers to read themselves some modern infantry tactics, fireteam tactics and such.

Also get a friend to team with.

that is all.

I will make it a point to snipe you until you qq from getting killed by my DMR over and over again.

[exomonkeyman 103]

I don't see sniper as game breaking.

If you think there's a sniper. Be clever and get behind buildings. Go up and flank him if you know where he is. Or just keep away from him for a bit.

I have never been 1 shot killed by a sniper No ok i have, But only cause i was standing still. Weave in and out of buildings & trees. A lot of snipers in this game actually suck. Unless your stupid and stand still.

I do agree people get angry with them. But snipers should be tweaked. NOT Removed. That's like a BIG part of gameplay gone. I would not want to survive in a world where snipers don't exist.

I think bandits should get lower stamina + Lower body Armour. Cause i mean the loot you get from the players you kill is really damm good. Hero's get nothing.

Edited April 23, 2013 by exomonkeyman

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

Abundance of snipers is not a problem that should be solved with technical solutions, like making rifles ultra-rare or requiring a PhD to use one. It's a game design problem and the two questions we should be asking in a game that was designed from the ground up to give a realistic survival experience are: 1) In a "real" Z apocalypse would there be a significant number of people willing to waste precious ammo on low value targets 2) What is wrong with current game balance that make such people present in the game?

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

I think bandits should get lower stamina + Lower body Armour. Cause i mean the loot you get from the players you kill is really damm good. Hero's get nothing.

I think this is horrible idea. Leave Bandits as they are. But if you want to give people incentive for people to go Hero then give them something to strive for. How about a halo around their head that shines really pretty? And some wings on their back so that they think they can fly and jump from roof top to roof top.

In all seriousness, what makes this game so great is that there are NO LEVEL SYSTEMS. There is no L10 being able to beat a L1 just because he's 9 ranks higher. How you play as a player, your decisions, your reaction, your ability to assess situations, your ability to survive, that is what makes this game great. A guy with a hatchet can take out a guy with an LMG if the hatchet guy is highly skilled and the LMG guy is careless. That is how this game is supposed to be.

The fact that someone gets sniped does not mean the problem is with the sniping guns. The problem lies with the player that got sniped and then complaining because they got sniped. That is the problem. This game gives no entitlements. Those who learn, adapt, evolve, and become better, are the ones that are going to survive the majority of their encounters (whether they shoot or not). If someone got sniped, heck just shot by anything, should try to figure out how and why they got shot and then learn from it. Stopping in the door way of a house facing a likely sniping spot is a good way to spawn on the beach.

It is that lack of COMMON SENSE that has led us down these utterly pointless threads.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Tek

[p4triot 207]

Abundance of snipers is not a problem that should be solved with technical solutions, like making rifles ultra-rare or requiring a PhD to use one. It's a game design problem and the two questions we should be asking in a game that was designed from the ground up to give a realistic survival experience are: 1) In a "real" Z apocalypse would there be a significant number of people willing to waste precious ammo on low value targets 2) What is wrong with current game balance that make such people present in the game?

You're late, those are the initial questions, and now we're discussing the solution, in btw, you gave none...

[Bubbajones 238]

With the new pathing of the AI, all you need to do is have a 1000m agro radius if a sniper rifle is shot.

You won't have elektro snipers as it will be like ringing a dinner bell that they wont escape from.

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

You're late, those are the initial questions, and now we're discussing the solution, in btw, you gave none...

The outline of possible solutions is present in my reply, just read between the lines, this is not first grade. The design problems are many - survival aspect is weak, predictable loot spawns, predictable player and Z spawns. I believe SA will be fixing many of these, if you are forced to think about basic survival and necessities every minute of your playing time and danger and disease can come unexpectedly from anywhere then we will have much less people setting up on top of a hill for a session of leisurely mid-afternoon sniping.

[p4triot 207]

The outline of possible solutions is present in my reply, just read between the lines, this is not first grade. The design problems are many - survival aspect is weak, predictable loot spawns, predictable player and Z spawns. I believe SA will be fixing many of these, if you are forced to think about basic survival and necessities every minute of your playing time and danger and disease can come unexpectedly from anywhere then we will have much less people setting up on top of a hill for a session of leisurely mid-afternoon sniping.

This iss much better. And I must tend to agree with you. Plus, the countersniper measures will come also from a psychologycal way, because if we decided not to force them to not do it, then all we can do is 'help' them to not want to do it.

As I said a few times on some other topics, Day Z screwed balance since day one and this ending in a deatmatch was inevitable. Hope they don't screw up again with the Standalone.

Edited April 23, 2013 by p4triot

[Heiduk 265]

If you were to run a short ways and then suddenly not be able to run, then you'd have the zombies on you in a heart beat, making you bleed with one swipe, and breaking your leg on the second swipe, and then eating you to death while you try to crawl away, because you couldn't run very far. Let's just shoot the zombies you're trying to run away from you say? Bam! Great! Now I have 10 more zombies coming after me. Better shoot those to! Great another 10 zombies! Better shoot those!

Welcome to the apocalypse my friend.

[-Gews- 7443]

With the new pathing of the AI, all you need to do is have a 1000m agro radius if a sniper rifle is shot.

You won't have elektro snipers as it will be like ringing a dinner bell that they wont escape from.

Any sniper rifle? Why would a 7.62 M24 be magically louder than a 7.62 M14 AIM or M240? :|

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Welcome to the apocalypse my friend.

In real life there might be some truth to this. However, this is a game, and there has to be some balance to the game to allow for measured game play. If a player is fatigued to the point of not being able to move fast, would it not stand to reason that if zombies run that same distance, they might get fatigued as well for burning up what ever energy reserves they have left? They may be undead, but they would still be at the mercy of their body being able subject to movement, metabolism, energy, etc.

Crying about realistic fatigue would affect zombies as well.

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

Any sniper rifle? Why would a 7.62 M24 be magically louder than a 7.62 M14 AIM or M240? :|

Depends on the barrel configuration. Does it have a muzzle break? Etc etc etc....

[-Gews- 7443]

Depends on the barrel configuration. Does it have a muzzle break? Etc etc etc....

None of them (the 7.62s) have muzzle brakes, and I don't think the flash hider on the M14 and DMRs would make any discernible difference, so I don't want to see sniper rifles being treated "differently", same as how many games have them dealing more damage "just because".

The only thing sound-wise a muzzle-brake can do is redirect more of the sound energy to the side, instead of out the front. It obviously won't increase the total sound energy coming out the front of the barrel. That's why sticking a brake on makes the rifle seem louder to the shooter and those near to the gun. Hmmm, I'm just thinking here, following that logic, that could technically mean slightly less sound energy being directed at those being shot at... never been shot at so I can't speak to that. :lol:

Edited April 23, 2013 by Gews

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

None of them (the 7.62s) have muzzle brakes, and I don't think the flash hider on the M14 and DMRs would make any discernible difference, so I don't want to see sniper rifles being treated "differently", same as how many games have them dealing more damage "just because".

7.62's sniper guns can have muzzle breaks put on if they want to. For the purpose of the game though, no, these sniper guns do not have the muzzle break.

And I agree, I don't like the difference in damage done. If a bullet is the same then it should do the same damage.

The only thing sound-wise a muzzle-brake can do is redirect more of the sound energy to the side, instead of out the front. It obviously won't increase the total sound energy coming out the front of the barrel. That's why sticking a brake on makes the rifle seem louder to the shooter and those near to the gun. Hmmm, I'm just thinking here, following that logic, that could technically mean slightly less sound energy being directed at those being shot at... never been shot at so I can't speak to that. :lol:

From a sound perspective yes, that redirection of energy is going to make the sound different at different area's. To the shooter it sounds like a cannon went off next to you. But to someone a ridge over, doesn't matter which direction, the sound is going to be different then if the gun did not have a break on it. It's kind of like when hunting someone may not even hear the sound of a rifle shot one canyon over, based on the terrain and how the sound moves through the canyon. The sound waves are affected.

In game the FN Fal has this affect. People have noticed when standing behind me in game when I shoot a Fal that they don't hear much noise. But they get down range from me and the thing becomes a BOOM to them.

[Bubbajones 238]

Any sniper rifle? Why would a 7.62 M24 be magically louder than a 7.62 M14 AIM or M240? :|

i meant any large caliber rifle, shotgun . There should be no difference in a zombies reaction if you fire an enfield in a barn or a DMR from 800m on a hill. every zombie within 1 km should be boogieing to the sound of breakfast ringing the dinner bell. THAT would make most people think twice before sniping or engaging survivors. At the least it would require snipers relocate a significant distance after every shot.

[-Gews- 7443]

i meant any large caliber rifle, shotgun . There should be no difference in a zombies reaction if you fire an enfield in a barn or a DMR from 800m on a hill. every zombie within 1 km should be boogieing to the sound of breakfast ringing the dinner bell. THAT would make most people think twice before sniping or engaging survivors. At the least it would require snipers relocate a significant distance after every shot.

Hmmm, it definitely would, however I think it would be unrealistic to have zombies know exactly where someone is when that person is a kilometre away.

I've been unable to hear gunshots on the road near the local range, and I know for a fact the range is only 500 meters away. Of course that's not typical, the road is very loud (major highway) and the range is in dense forest... but I doubt a zombie hearing a gunshot at 1000 meters would instantly start running in that direction.

The old Lee-Enfield with the "dinner bell" reputation drew zombies at 234 meters and that was considered far...

Right now though zombies have almost no senses, they seem to be half-blind and unable to hear, so audible range does need to be increased. :lol: