DayZ Alpha won't launch until launched !

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I like the being able to buy into a game during development. Recently I've purchased Don't Starve, Kerbal Space Programme, Star Forge, Arma 3 and a few others. Already they've given me many hours of fun and I like seeing how they progress. I read about them first and was well aware what I was buying. It's hard to miss that you're buying a game in development as they have Alpha plastered all over them and you have to purchase them from an early access area.

I've been reading some of the Steam forums regarding these games and most people seem to understand the process and what it is they're buying, although annoyingly there's others who complain about bugs because they just clicked "purchase now" but that's their fault, not the devs and hopefully they learn from it.

[gummy52 57]

I like the being able to buy into a game during development.

That's understandable; consumers are hungry for anything at this point. There haven't been many good games in the past several years either.

they just clicked "purchase now" but that's their fault

In my opinion developers should be held accountable for what they're selling. Yeah, it's unfinished, and the buyer can figure that out if he does his research; but is it really wrong to expect that you get what you pay for?

Edited April 5, 2013 by gummy52

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

They did get what they paid for. They don't have to do any research, all the info is right there on one page complete with a vid. Let's not forget that the games are usually heavily discounted too (as DayZ SA will be) and you won't be paying any more once the game is completed.

IMO if you can't be arsed to read 1 short paragraph or watch a vid and then fail to miss that you had to click on "early access area" (which has it's own warnings about what that area is for) before splashing your cash then you're in no position to have claimed to have been ripped off.

Let's use Arma 3 as an example as that was recently released on Steam, is also made by BIS and is still in alpha:

Firstly, it's called "Arma3 Alpha" and it's in the early access area on Steam. If you just search Arma 3 so are not aware that you are in the early access part of Steam the biggest and brightest part of the page right at the front in the middle under the vid highlighted in blue is text explaining what early access means complete with a link to a page with even more detail if required. The vid also explains the concept and shows what it is you're buying and explains vary clearly what they have planned for the future.

There is then some short easy to read bullet points listing clearly what it is you're buying.

I fail to see what part of this is deceitful? Systems can't be designed around the lowest common demoninator, when they are we end up with cups of coffee being sold with big red letters on the cup saying "Warning, contents may be hot!" and bags of nut's with warnings on them saying "May contain nuts!".

Some people are just stupid, the rest of us shouldn't be punished because of this.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Fraggle

[gummy52 57]

IMO if you can't be arsed to read 1 short paragraph or watch a vid and then fail to miss that you had to click on "early access area"

Some people are just stupid, the rest of us shouldn't be punished because of this.

There are a few people out there who buy an Alpha without realizing what that meant. A few. Putting those few insignificant aside, the other several million are willing to buy into it despite what they know. I very much so wish that the rest of us wouldn't be punished for their foolish behavior. Most people are able to understand what it means when a company labels something as "Alpha", but few understand the unlikeliness that such a product would actually be finished. Even fewer understand the insignificance of an unfinished product being patched and updated. Every online game needs to be patched and maintained. The weaker the start, the weaker the finish. A company can only sustain working full time on something before it becomes unprofitable. You, the consumer, expects that if that happens then the company can declare it ready for release and gain momentum. It doesn't work that way in practice; everyone that was going to buy it already has. The company benefits in the end because they are financially in control the entire time. The money starts coming in the moment they need it, and they stop investing time once the sales slow down. The only thing you as a consumer got out of buying into this nonsense was a sloppier starting point and a weaker product. The words I've quoted are a fitting comment.

Edited April 5, 2013 by gummy52

[Zarniwoop 1193]

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here:

The weaker the start, the weaker the finish.

No. Cannot agree less here. You cannot say that about all.

I will just say this cos I have no time to elaborate: Empire Total War. Terrible at the start (nearly unplayable) still selling quite well.

Even if a game didnt do well at sales at the start also doesnt mean it was a bad game.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Zarniwoop

[gummy52 57]

No. Cannot agree less here. You cannot say that about all.

I will just say this cos I have no time to elaborate: Empire Total War. Terrible at the start (nearly unplayable) still selling quite well.

From what I read Empire Total War wasn't sold as an Alpha. It was developed, tested internally, released, and maintained.

The land combat was demonstrated at the later 2008 Leipzig Game Convention in August 2008. At the convention, The Creative Assembly announced that the game was out of the alpha development phase, and that they were aiming for a release date of 6 February 2009. On 28 October 2008, it was announced that the game would be released on Valve Corporation's content delivery system Steam on the official release date of 6 February

Edited April 5, 2013 by gummy52

[Zarniwoop 1193]

From what I read Empire Total War wasn't sold as an Alpha. It was developed, tested internally, released, and maintained.

My point isn't that though is it? You cannot generalize saying that if a game (alpha or not) starts off bad it will end bad as well.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Zarniwoop

[gummy52 57]

My point isn't that though is it? You cannot generalize saying that if a game (alpha or not) starts off bad it will end bad as well.

Clearly you completely failed to understand my point.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Clearly you completely failed to understand my point.

Again, you haven't made a point.

You have a different opinion on the "morality" of the sales structure (which is supported and understood by most of the folks here, in case you hadn't noticed) and are hypocritically accusing everyone else of disregarding your views.

No point made.

This banter is REALLY getting old.

Just drop it.

You can't "suffer" at the hands of BI if you choose not to take part in the proposed scheme. So just don't.

Until your Nostradamus banter comes to fruition, try to avoid making assumptions or jumping to conclusions.

You already proved your ego outweighs your knowledge on the subject when you based your entire initial argument on one flawed article.

And if you feel you HAVE to respond, remember : "He who laughs last, probably didn't understand the joke."

[gummy52 57]

Again, you haven't made a point.

No point made.

You can't "suffer" at the hands of BI if you choose not to take part in the proposed scheme. So just don't.

I believe I have made a point. I called the suppose "kickstarter model" a scam only to have you and a few others defend it. Then once others started to also speak out against it the mods backpedal and decide to post that it was a misquote. Every several posts you chime in repeating the exact same line, that I haven't made a point and that I shouldn't buy it if I don't like it. You're shitposting.

Edited April 5, 2013 by gummy52

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

OK. How about you clearly state your point.

Avoid your pompous verbosity and dead-language idioms and just explain to the rest of the class what you see as the issue at hand.

No subjective forcefulness, no perception of victimisation. Just plain and simple explanation.

Go.

[gummy52 57]

Hall is looking at a possible Kickstarter-inspired distribution model, where players would pay certain amounts to opt into the alpha and snag other goodies, in tiers.

Those aren't donations, those are micro-transactions. So micro-transactions during an Alpha. Pay for Alpha ARMA3, pay for Alpha DayZ. You greedy jerks are just barely less cancerous than WarZ.

Alpha access allows you to play the game throughout development AND on release. How does that make BI "greedy cunts"?

If anything they're taking less money!

Bohemia Interactive is misrepresenting what an Alpha is.

Again, you haven't made a point. No point made.

I believe I have made a point. I called the suppose "kickstarter model" a scam only to have you and a few others defend it. Then once others started to also speak out against it the mods backpedal and decide to post that it was a misquote. Every several posts you chime in repeating the exact same line, that I haven't made a point and that I shouldn't buy it if I don't like it. You're shitposting.

OK. How about you clearly state your point. Go.

personal incredulity

Edited April 5, 2013 by gummy52

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

A logical fallacy from your perspective, which to everyone else just so happens to be a perfectly well evidenced conclusion, based on tangible evidence and reputation, is arguing from ignorance?

That's the best you could come up with?

Pathetic.

And you have still failed to make a point.

Now, the simple fact that I don't share your views doesn't mean I can't follow your reasoning. But to put it bluntly, I feel your skepticism is misplaced.

[gummy52 57]

Epic troll. You sure showed me buddy. Yeah man I think I'm definitely done posting here.

[Private Evans 1303]

Those two will not become the couple of the month....I guess :P

[OrLoK 16185]

So, how's our scam to rinse the unsuspecting public from their cash? I shall communicate with our lizard lords that the global take over is almost complete.

Damn, did I post that publicly?

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Thank you Kra.

I typed up 2 different responses to gummy's post, but both ended up just unable to express how ridiculous it is.

Alpha access allows you to play the game throughout development AND on release. How does that make BI "greedy cunts"?

If anything they're taking less money!

I'm holding judgement on the sales model until the minute Rocket takes my card details.

Jumping to conclusions based on gaming journo articles as opposed to official anouncements is usually a bad move.

This is the first post I made regarding this "Kickstarter" model, in its entirety.

Note, my disregard for statements made in the article, owing to the fact that I investigate and reach my own conclusions instead of going Chicken Little like you.

The sky is, in fact, NOT falling.

A little note to you, for future reference. Going back to edit posts to which someone has already replied is bad practice.

EDIT: @Evans

With an arse as wide as a wizard's sleeve, gummy would've been a perfect companion.

I was just finishing up our little cabin in the woods when the ugly truth bore its head.

No trust for Rocket?! :o *Spanish soap-opera slap*

You broke my heart gummy. You broke my heart.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Chabowski

[Private Evans 1303]

So, how's our scam to rinse the unsuspecting public from their cash? I shall communicate with our lizard lords that the global take over is almost complete.

Damn, did I post that publicly?

the master should proceed with phase two.. selling the unplayable broken alpha for the full prize....

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I'm confused as to where " the mods have backpeddled". I saw people talking about "kickstarter" stuff and "goodies" which didn't sound right to me so I got clarification from a dev to fix the issue. That's all really.

As has already been said, if you don't like the early release being for sale and are sceptical (there's nothing wrong with good healthy scepticism about big companies, although BI really aren't that big) then just wait until it's complete, read the reviews or feedback from players and then decide if it's the game for you or not, if not, no harm done.

I've been playing BIS games for many years now and so far they have only acted responsibly as a company which is why they have so much respect from fans of the Arma series. Until they act in a way that would cause me to doubt them I shall continue to trust them as a company.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Fraggle

[Inception. 9443]

What are you guys on about? Of course it's a scam! Didn't you hear that Rocket hired EA and Activision?

[hoik 415]

So, how's our scam to rinse the unsuspecting public from their cash? I shall communicate with our lizard lords that the global take over is almost complete.

Lizard Lords?? I thought it was crab people, what a scam...

[Zeppa 562]

Also heard that treyarch and hammerpoint is involved too.

This is gonna be awesome, elite of the game world working together!! take my money!!

Edited April 6, 2013 by Zeppa

[codeakira 0]

We demand Blood! Blood calls for Blood!

[RiggsUK 69]

Funny how people are upset by thinking its over delayed. Video games usually have an 18 month production schedule and this has been about half a year in the making. "oh but they had the arma2 engine already" yeah and so does everyone who made a game with the unreal engine, and they still take 18 months about it. Just be lucky they dont have some braggart producer pulling dean in endless meetings to tell him about his jetski antics at the weekend.

[WalBanger 11]

xD

I have seen this for years and I still haven't got a clue what he is REALLY saying :-(