The most elegant solution to playerkilling on SA and possibly dayz mod

[svenbreakfast 231]

Zombies could stand to be tougher. Everything I've seen from the SA indicates that they want zombies to pose a greater threat. I think one of the best ways to do this would be to allow them to grab hold of you, and momentarily detain/slow you until you can kill it or break free. This would make training a whole town to hit the richest loot spots more challenging. Even after so much practice at it, I'll still turn a corner and have a zombie up in my grill while training a town. Usually they will take an ineffevive swing at me as I fly by, As long as effective use of the W key can nullify the threat of zombies entirely, they will continue be more of an annoyance than a real danger.

Shots should draw zombies to the point that staking out a sniping position in an urban area should be suicide once you've fired your weapon. Within 5 minutes your position should be swarmed. The first thing a player should think after killing somebody with a gun in one of these formerly populated areas is, "I better get the fuck out of here".

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

I am a friendly player, but I am not convinced those ideas (good of course) would take PvP out. Making Z more dangerous would mean for example "Let's hunt players to loot their bodies since there are too many Z in Berezino.", so the opposite.

I would not make Z more or less dangerous in general, but instead to have Z reacting to shooting very efficiently: any shoot should attract hordes of investigating Zombies, chasing and loitering around for a while, also having them stay close to dead players (feeding) for a looong time.

That should makes players think twice before pressing the trigger: you risk to be swarmed by Z or not being able to loot your prey.

_Anubis_

Edited March 12, 2013 by _Anubis_

[Fear The Amish 40]

For some reason you all think Scarcity = teamwork.. you do realize every tribal killing, family fued, brushfire conflict, world war. was all over scarcity of resources?!? oh limit ammo? yeah you know what i am just going to shoot every player i see with a gun to get their ammo then. Limit food? same thing, you are doing the exact opposite when you make something scarce. Also the sound issue with gunshots. To be realistic if you are firing on something a half mile away (most sniper shots) the sound would reflect all over and would be very difficult to discern its direction in RL.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Fear The Amish

[RooBurger 285]

Just think about daryl in walking dead, even badass people can save people.

OK, you bring up that show - zombies haven't been an earnest threat to the characters since season one. Once they figured out how to kill zombies, how to avoid and be safe from them, it became all about surviving the "bandits"!

[RooBurger 285]

Make rare loot ACTUALLY rare. Think about it, right now, some player who have military gear keep hogging and hoarding all the loot, while bambi's stand no chance. Ever tried raiding NWAF with a pistol? I did. It didn't end well.

You've got the tail wagging the dog. You think that less loot would solve the "problem" of people hoarding? You don't think they'd do it more? It's not a problem in the first place, it's one of the things that makes the game awesome.

You also expect to raid the NWAF with a pistol and be successful? What? Not unless you get lucky and no one is around for 15 minutes.

[Auslovich 48]

I'm a bandit, and wouldn't kill other players if there was an easy way to just rob them.

Also, the coast sniper bullshit has been blown way out of proportion.

I've played DayZ for ages, and have only been sniped three times, EVER.

(And no, I do not spend the majority of my time in the forest.)

[Hetstaine 10852]

But sadly, with the lack of endgame content, the only real option you have is to gear up, go pvp and bambihunt with snipers, die, repeat.

Wait...what ? No imagination. I nearly stopped reading right there. I mean..really ?

people enjoy being bandits ! i dont get why people dont get this :o

There is no solution to playerkilling. You can enable or disable it, that's the only way to deal with it, if you really want to.

There should be NO influence on what you do via the game. So there should be NO updates aimed only at manipulating players to play a certain playstyle. If there's a general update and that inadvertently ramps up the difficulty for a certain type of player, so be it. But if a player still wants to play like that, then don't stop them. That would just be alienating half of the playerbase.

They need to get the balance right, that's all. Occupy enough of the players time so there's always something to do, but without restricting the option to kill people if so desired.

^

Also, I really like what TheBambiAvenger said: rewarding kind gameplay somehow - some perks or something.

but like I said, give me a candy big enough, and I just might consider shooting the zed next to the bambi, instead of him.

Besides, that's in some ways even more epic, killing a zed chasing a bambi from 800. Like a guardian angel.

Perks ? You need perks or some sort of rewardy trinkety thing in DayZ so you can help someone out in game ? To me it sound like you are limiting yourself, not the game limiting you. Fair enough there is not a complete shit ton of things to do on so far as what we would like to be in and what we hope will be brought to us in SA , but i fail to see that no matter what is added will change peoples playstyles...for long if at all.

Even at the very beginning when there was not such a big playerbase you would see bodies on the beach. I can bet a lot of the players back then had never even accomplished getting a working vehicle or flying a heli, but they sure had the art of knocking of new spawns down pat.

[Inception. 9443]

I completely agree with Hetstaine. Imagination is the key.

[joona.kujanen@suomi24.fi 62]

Some people just are jerks who enjoy killing others with no reason at all, and that's it. No matter how hard the environment is, there's always someone asking "hey whre are every1, Cherno looks empty? Wher's ACTION!?1!".

My opinion is that player killers should endure karma system where, with shitty karma, you would earn Justin Bieber's Best Tracks Vol.1-1000 which you can't turn off.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Kuikka

[herbster 34]

How about looking at it slightly differently and introduce and incentive to live longer. A lot of the PvPers don't actually care if they die as long as they get to kill some people, so by introducing an incentive to stay alive, it might reduce the number of suicide killers,

Incentives might include a getting better accuracy over time - i.e. a new player always has the shakes to a certain extent making sniping very very hard, but over time these shakes will diminish and after being 20 days old will have the shakes reduced to what is standard now.

[Jamz 253]

How about looking at it slightly differently and introduce and incentive to live longer. A lot of the PvPers don't actually care if they die as long as they get to kill some people, so by introducing an incentive to stay alive, it might reduce the number of suicide killers,

Incentives might include a getting better accuracy over time - i.e. a new player always has the shakes to a certain extent making sniping very very hard, but over time these shakes will diminish and after being 20 days old will have the shakes reduced to what is standard now.

I quite like that. But maybe to reflect how a person might toughen up when forced to live of the land, intervals needed between drinking and eating could lengthen over the days survived so that scavenging becomes required less frequently. Essentially resistance to the elements could increase slightly over time. It's something that's not really necessary or overpowering to players in PvP but introduces a reason to survive, and only very small time increases for the intervals.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Jamz

[Oath3 38]

I agree with a lot of people here. I do not feel that I'm ever going to stop playing this game because of a bandit killing me. Them killing me makes me better. I learn from my mistakes. I don't walk in open fields anymore. I don't announce where I am. I don't do a lot of stupid stuff I used to. Bandits have taught me how to play this game.

But I do believe Zeds should be more of a threat. Because if I had to deal with better Zeds and Bandits at the same time I feel like I could learn a lot from both and become an even better player. Make the Zeds tougher. The Bandits will adapt. They will find ways to kill us, no matter what you do to the game. Even if you turned PvP off they'd find a way to get Zed hoards to kill you.

[liquidmind 320]

I agree, but at the same time I believe it will only encourage more killing, as more people will waste ammo on zeds, consequently needing more supplies. I believe there should be some more perks to being a hero and maybe one perk for survivor (you don't want to give bandits perks, that just encourages more killing, but you don't want to give disadvantages. If you give hero and survivor more benefits then people will be more drawn to those playstyles). Also I believe that the humanity system should account for self defense, as when you have a lot of humanity you don't want to wait for a bandit to hit you before you shoot back.

The only realistic perk would be, if NPC traders gave better prices and sell more rare stuff to heroes, as they admire them, while they might refuse to sell to bandits or charge a lot more.

But this would require NPCs.

Also I think the Availability of Ammo is something very important. Deathmatchers rarely use bolt action rifles or handguns, they always go for the military grade weapon, just because ammo is avaliable everywhere. I think I found 2000 DMR mags so far, without having found a single DMR for at least 3 month.

[dystopeon 46]

here's the most elegant solution - REMOVE ALL 3DP OPTION - this way 90% of players would not even be ABLE to make a kill.

[Auslovich 48]

here's the most elegant solution - REMOVE ALL 3DP OPTION - this way 90% of players would not even be ABLE to make a kill.

Urm, what?

I use 3rd person when I am running around, but whenever I get into combat it is 1st person.

I don't see how anyone could find it easier to kill someone in 3rd person, except for when looking over walls, etc.

[GodOfGrain 191]

ANY update that exists ONLY to cause:

...Is a terrible one.

There should be NO influence on what you do via the game. So there should be NO updates aimed only at manipulating players to play a certain playstyle. If there's a general update and that inadvertently ramps up the difficulty for a certain type of player, so be it. But if a player still wants to play like that, then don't stop them. That would just be alienating half of the playerbase.

That's so not true ;)

The key point for DayZ is: No judgement, no arbitrary rules or punishment.

But:

Game design influences player behavior.

And there is a design aim, which could be in this case to move away from the abundance of PvP more to a survival setting.

In a game without strict rules the devs have to think even more about subtle ways to influence player behavior.

Rocket is well aware of that as I recollect from early interviews.

Game Structure of current DayZ mod facilitates PvP, the main reasons:

- lack of stuff to do

- the only "tools" players get are weapons

- zombies are no threat, survival is easy

- death is a mere sidenote in organized group play

So I'd say the contrary. For a sandbox game like DayZ the

devs have to think alot about how certain changes could influence player behavior.

See also:

On game design, progression through equipment and a system of micro skills

Edited March 14, 2013 by GodOfGrain

[Rage VG 4033]

That's so not true ;)

The key point for DayZ is: No judgement, no arbitrary rules or punishment.

But:

Game design influences player behavior.

And there is a design aim, which could be in this case to move away from the abundance of PvP more to a survival setting.

In a game without strict rules the devs have to think even more about subtle ways to influence player behavior.

Rocket is well aware of that as I recollect from early interviews.

Game Structure of current DayZ mod facilitates PvP, the main reasons:

- lack of stuff to do

- the only "tools" players get are weapons

- zombies are no threat, survival is easy

- death is a mere sidenote in organized group play

So I'd say the contrary. For a sandbox game like DayZ the

devs have to think alot about how certain changes could influence player behavior.

See also:

On game design, progression through equipment and a system of micro skills

Changes that indirectly influence game behavior (such as item implementation, bug fixes, graphical updates, balancing, etc) are a completely different matter. I said changes aimed soley at controlling/manipulating/encouraging or discouraging a certain playstyle over another (such as safe zones, debuffs to bandits, group spawning, or clan costumes) are terrible.

Secondly, this is all acting as though PvP is an issue that requires fixing. Which, it really doesn't. There might be weapons that need better balancing which may cause a decrease of bandits with that weapon and thus less bandits overall, but a gameplay change that only exists to moderate players goes against the very definition of "Sandbox". Sure, even Sandboxes usually have limits. The reason DayZ is so big is because it simply doesn't.

P.S: For far too long have I been getting "lol stfu mang ur just a bandit" as opposed to a coherent argument such as your last post. It makes a change.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Rage VG

[DanielTy88 133]

So, we all know that banditism is rampant in DayZ and that the nm.1 cause for death is death by sniper and other players.

Really? I thought it was radio active bunnies and Schwarzenegger cows killing everyone...

[p4triot 207]

So, we all know that banditism is rampant in DayZ and that the nm.1 cause for death is death by sniper and other players.

Now, this severely limits the survivalism aspect of the game, because the only viable thing is to hide and hope not to get shot down by military gear.

Here's the thing though, I am willing to bed you whatever that when rocket envisioned dayz, PVP was not even closely on the top10 of things he wanted for dayz to be. But sadly, with the lack of endgame content, the only real option you have is to gear up, go pvp and bambihunt with snipers, die, repeat.

This all could be solved incredibly easily: make survival much harder.

Right now zombies probably cause about 10% of deaths if not less. Why is that? Did humanity go extinct because they were so bored of the zombies? I dont think so, so why are the zombies on easy mode?!

If the zombies were to pose a very real threat, and food would be scarce, than a couple of things would happen:

1.) people would be forced go group up just to survive

2.) bandits would have a much harder time, because only looting the survivors would probably not yield enough food/drink to survive.

3.) players would suddently focus on surviving and not killing each other

And with the new server side zombies that wouldn't even be hard to do.

And than another improvement I'd recommend: add a zombie spawn filter which says that whenever a zombie cannot access an area it cannot spawn in it. So for example fortifying an area would actually keep the area clear of zombies. This would further encourage group play.

And with the new bigger chernarus map there could be space for many more bases, like prisons or castles, which people could encamp in, because of the harder zombies

EDIT:

Another thing: reward people for helping others. Maybe something like Finding a way for the game to determine when a player is stuck (swarmed by zombies and stuck in a house, maybe add a checkpoint on entry, exit to house and determine whether the player can get to that point or whatever) and than if someone helps the stranded player he gets rewarded.

I hope the devs hear you and make the zombies a lot more harder, so you and those who think the same way than you will finally see how 'well' it works with KoS and people teaming up :D

Get over it, this is the human nature multiplied by the gamer nature. Teaming up and non-killing doesn't come from the hard difficulty. You put a unincredible unbeateble level of difficulty to the game, and all you will get is a bunch of betrayers. Because ingame players are splited between friends (and I mean real friends) and tools, valuable only as they serve you a purpose (and you serve them).

I spend 7 years in a MMORPG, trust me, I been in every situation possible playing online. Those that team-up with you, will raid a town with you, get 2 cans of beans total (remember, hard mode right?) and after you both left the city and are safe again he will fucking kill you and steal your well-deserved food. Because now you are more valuable dead than alive. Pure capitalism. But, if you make food more abundant, then you also will not serve any purpose to him, besides the fun, the fun he gets from killing you.

After 7 years of Lineage II, making alliances, fighting another alliances and neutrals, and randoms, and cheaters and so on I can assure one thing. This is the gamer nature, and it is impossible to change. If you are one of the nice guys smiling and helping everyone, then good for you, you are 1 in a million. In L2 we had clans, and clans never we’re made out of the “Lets have some fun together people!!”, they we’re made out of the “lets join our forces and fucking kill those motherfuckers!!” (another group of KoS players we could say). And as I said, half the time you had to face those new “friends” trying to kill you after you both killed your mutual enemies and no longer need each other.

And why is that? well, simple, you cannot behave the same with an unknown player than with your friends. With my friends I play laughing all the way, screaming, joking, laughing a bit more and with an unbelievable compenetration level you can only get after years of playing with the same group. How can an unknown player compete with that?? isn't the same. When I'm with an unknown player It feels more like Im working, I just wanna finish whatever I need to do, help him (only if he helps me also) and then get lost and go on with my way (at least I won’t kill him… unless I need what he has, which would happen if stuff we’re a lot harder to get)

However, once in a while, here and in every game, you find a good person, and after meeting 100 guys you had known 90 bastards and 10 good guys, but those 10 good guys are now your clan, and there’s always 1 or 2 online so you play together and don’t need to risk your life playing with potential bastards again. Then is when you can achieve the highest achievements of the game w/o the fear of being betrayed once they’re done. After some time, those ‘tools’ have become your friends, real friends.

Sadly, Day Z doesn’t support groups, so here after meeting a good guy sooner or later you will be alone again. This is why in here the 9/1 proportion of bastards weights a lot more than in any other game, because the good guy doesn’t stay for another day.

My advice? Get real friends to play this game with you.

Edited March 14, 2013 by p4triot