Addressing the two biggest complaints regarding First Person

[Positronica 30]

And I'm sure that if third person was removed, after a little while, nobody would be complaining, because I don't see how it improves the game.

By the same token, third person can be left in and everyone will keep on playing the game happily, as evidenced by the fact that virtually everyone repeatedly chooses to play on servers where it's an option, even though they could easily join servers without it. Plus, I think you're underestimating the complaining that it's removal would lead to. Third person view, especially in open world games is kind of a design standard now. Clearly there exists a sizable number of gamers out there who value it as a option, and there's no reason to think that those gamers don't play DayZ.

[Positronica 30]

Well, the problem is that keeping things the way they ae, with the exception of removing first person servers entirely, wouldn't solve anything. It would create even more conflict. Making third person balanced with first person, as I have said many times, looks like the best option to me.

Obviously I was being sarcastic, but the point I've tried to make a few times is that I don't think there really is a conflict. I judge the playerbase more by their actions then by their words, and judging them by the choice of server selection, the availability of third person view is simply something that nearly the entire playerbase doesn't have a problem with.

That being said, the proposed change to third person that gets posted sometimes, and that would probably be acceptable, would be if the camera was dynamic and closed in when you were up against walls and the like. This would only be worth adding if it was programmed well, though, because a lot of games with a similar camera feature end up getting pretty wonky.

[Max Planck 7174]

As long as there are still 1stP only server (the one I play on is almost always full though), there is no problem. We can all get along, we'll just be playing on different servers. All is well and good.

The problem is, Rocket seems to have an ambition to make a sort of 'unified servers setting' that we'll all have to play on in the standalone. If this comes to pass it will not end well for anybody, whether they like 1stP or 3rdP. This is evidenced by the way these threads always evolve, and by how 'balancing' suggestions are alwys shot down with mighty fury as fast as they are made.

I think we should make it clear to Rocket that we want to be kept separate in the SA as well, it seems to me to be the only way forward.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Max Planck

[guyver1 70]

As long as there are still 1stP only server (the one I play on is almost always full though), there is no problem. We can all get along, we'll just be playing on different servers. All is well and good.

The problem is, Rocket seems to have an ambition to make a sort of 'unified servers setting' that we'll all have to play on in the standalone. If this comes to pass it will not end well for anybody, whether they like 1stP or 3rdP. This is evidenced by the way these threads always evolve, and by how 'balancing' suggestions are alwys shot down with mighty fury as fast as they are made.

I think we should make it clear to Rocket that we want to be kept separate in the SA as well, it seems to me to be the only way forward.

This for me.

If Standalone ends up being 'unified' to the point where all servers have to have both 3rd/1st enabled I'll be looking for a different game. (and no-one will miss 1 player out of a million and i'm cool with that)

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Q: What will servers owners be able to do in terms of server settings (Day/Night etc) and will they be connected to the public hive?

A: Initially we would like every server to connect to the public hive as we would like to see if we have solved the problems from the mod, long load times and things like that. So no we don't want servers to connect to their own databases, the level of control over the server is still to be decided, at the moment it's looking like there will be a fairly limited list of settings, view distances, first/third person etc, so they can customise them to some extent but can't do anything crazy and add hundreds of vehicles.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Headbob can be turned off, FOV will be fixed in the SA.

I didn't watch your video, but what your post describes is not what the 1st/3rd person argument is about.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

The real issue is with 3rd person, and it's cause people like having a handicap.

[ImageCtrl 719]

OP nice video.

I am missing two keys in it.

You can change fov ingame by Zooming in and out.

Change key to zoom out. I prefer mouse 5.

[guyver1 70]

See, the zoom feature (right mouse button and the other one, - key?) I think should be removed

Unless your name is Steve Austin, your eyes can't magically zoom in.

Personally I would like to see the zoom feature removed so that you have to find binoculars and use them.

[enforcer1975 1111]

See, the zoom feature (right mouse button and the other one, - key?) I think should be removed

Unless your name is Steve Austin, your eyes can't magically zoom in.

Personally I would like to see the zoom feature removed so that you have to find binoculars and use them.

You should start a thread about that, let's see how many will start to flame...

The zoom is also something like the 3P, it went like "it should replace the missing focus you normally have IRL when you look at something", yeah right, i have an autofocus in my eyes for these cases. It was removed Project Reality, nobody complained so far or at least the devs didn#t care about it because they think it's part of what PR is about.

[ImageCtrl 719]

See, the zoom feature (right mouse button and the other one, - key?) I think should be removed

Unless your name is Steve Austin, your eyes can't magically zoom in.

Personally I would like to see the zoom feature removed so that you have to find binoculars and use them.

I use binoculars. The zoom in feature is for me not something like "eyes magically" for me it is concentration on some view points. :D

This is sooooo realistic that you can concetrait on something. :P

[DemonGroover 8836]

For me the best thing about 3rd person is you can see your outfit. Especially with all the new clothing items coming in SA.

[entspeak 374]

Here's my thought on this:

I've played both and, yes, 1st person is more intense - as real life would be if you were forced to wear blinders that limited your view. When I played on a 1st person only server, a guy ran right by me without seeing me. The thing is, in real life, he would've seen me. So, in fact, 1st person is MORE artificial and LESS immersive in terms of awareness of your surroundings - which is why, as I understand it, BI has 3rd person in Arma.

3rd Person is not a cheat in and of itself; it's a legitimate feature of the game that people exploit to, in essence, cheat. The most comparable thing in the game is brightness/gamma... also a legitimate feature that people exploit in order to cheat.

In terms of compensating, I think that 3rd person = weapon down is a good middle ground. Zooming in, however, defeats the purpose of 3rd Person. And, so long as it exists, there will always be people who exploit it.

If 3rd person was removed, then they would really need to bring back peripheral dots to compensate for the limited FOV. Ones that fade out and disappear when the object is behind cover and fade out as the object approaches 90 degrees on either side. And different colors for different things... Because in real life, you'd see the thing and recognize it as a vehicle, an animal or a person.

Edited February 28, 2013 by entspeak

[Max Planck 7174]

For me the best thing about 3rd person is you can see your outfit. Especially with all the new clothing items coming in SA.

Even better would be working full-size mirrors. Imagine finding one in an empty house, only to get shot in the back of the head while you are busy prancing around and trying on different hats.

"Does this one make me look fa-" *Boom!!*

Edited February 28, 2013 by Max Planck

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I could argue that we can see ourselve in first person too, and always have, pretty much the same way i see myself everyday without the use of a mirror.

The oldest mirror in the world exist in the game. It's called water.

I could also argue that the FOV put your own awareness of what is going on in your own hands. If someone sneak up on you it's your own damn fault because you didn't look. And with the free look you have no excuses not to take a peak around every now and then.

It also ENABLE players to be sneaky, which the 3rd person view completely neuter.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Lady Kyrah

[Max Planck 7174]

We don't really need to argue it though. As it is, we can all have it our preferred way.

Let's hope SA will be the same.

[Bat (DayZ) 230]

I could argue that we can see ourselve in first person too, and always have, pretty much the same way i see myself everyday without the use of a mirror.

The oldest mirror in the world exist in the game. It's called water.

I could also argue that the FOV put your own awareness of what is going on in your own hands. If someone sneak up on you it's your own damn fault because you didn't look. And with the free look you have no excuses not to take a peak around every now and then.

It also ENABLE players to be sneaky, which the 3rd person view completely neuter.

I totally agree and couln't say it better, given my terrible english.

But yeah I suppose people are not ready to give up their 3rd person view, even if it's for a better experience overall.

I guess they're just too accustomed to it now.

It's a shame because the game is supposed to be an experiment, and I guess if things are changed/removed in the standalone, there will be massive community reaction that might hinder the whole development process.

I really hope Rocket has what it takes to make whatever changes he wants, because I don't want to play a game that tries to be to everyone's tastes, I want my survival simulator with pooing and diseases and the slightest mistake should result in death.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Bat

[entspeak 374]

I could also argue that the FOV put your own awareness of what is going on in your own hands. If someone sneak up on you it's your own damn fault because you didn't look. And with the free look you have no excuses not to take a peak around every now and then.

It also ENABLE players to be sneaky, which the 3rd person view completely neuter.

You could argue that, but it's a specious argument. Yes, I could look around more, but all that head motion might as well be head bobbing if you're going to even get close to the more accurate awareness that 3rd person affords when it's not being exploited.

And, it doesn't completely neuter sneaking around when it's not being exploited.

I'd be down for 1st person if they had peripheral dots as I've described them.