A Way to Introduce a more Work-together environment?

[Talibambi 119]

"skills" should be something you are legitimately good at. Something you learn and you either get better at or you keep failing at. Like lockpicking in Skyrim. ANYONE can lockpick as long as you have the lockpick. But regardless of your skill you can still fail if you dont have any clue at what you are doing.

This is needed in dayz to many things in order to make people want to work together.

Find a car and it wont start? Pop the hood and you have to look at the cables and connections and see whats wrong. "Fixing" the wrong thing will damage the car until eventually its completely inoperable and needs completely new parts. People who do know what they are doing however could have the car up and running in short time by fixing EXACTLY what is wrong in the car.

Need a new wheel but dont have a car jack? You need a buddy or two to hold the car up so someone else can stick on the new wheel. Sticking on the wheel wouldnt involve any little minigame since you are already taking up peoples time by having them hold the darn car up or went out of your way to find a jack in the first place.

These are the kind of things I would enjoy.

[CreepySalad 108]

When i read when someone says that your ingame skill should base entirely on your real life knowladge it make me burst out laughing. So if you want to repair car you should find UAZ manual on the net, next look for the chapter "engine problems" and then try to solve it ingame? Would be great to repair engine like in surgeon simulator 2013 :D. I could gave couple more examples but you get the idea ; ).

In my opinion skills are something that should be strongly considered by Rocket and the team.

You'll only need a basic knowledge about cars.

But if you want to read a UAZ manual, you can.

Whatever.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

A simulator which simulates things? What a joke.

EDIT:

DayZ made a name for itself by doing things in a way that defies expectations.

If Rocket suddenly decided that skills, XP points and level-ups are the way to go, I'd check the back of his neck for an "off" switch, because he's been abducted by aliens and replaced with a robot.

but imagine an utterly different idea of skills and not the stereotypical approach of almost any RP game... every game has its limits in terms of mapping realism into the game world, therefor you have artificial ways to simulate some kind of reality. I think denying a Skill system per se is outright wrong, as there are many different ways to shape something like this also in a very subtle, non-overbearing way.

My main arguments are revaluation of a dayz-life, raising of PVE again and long term motivation

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure I understand the motivation, I just disagree with the idea that it's the best way to represent abilities.

The use of meta-knowledge in DayZ really grabbed my attention, (navigation by shadows during the day and stars at night for example) and to lose it to a generic "character skill" system would be sorely disappointing.

EDIT:

Just read in another topic, FlashHawk4 has learned to read the Cyrillic alphabet after having to deal with it in DayZ.

See? There's a LOT of potential for "skills" learned in game to have real-world applications.

Mechanics has already been mentioned.

Disease diagnosis will be a feature in SA. You never know, learning "skills" from DayZ could save someone's life! (a little dramatic, but you get my point)

Edited February 17, 2013 by Chabowski

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i agree..the best way is a mixture of both, as you can not deal with everything in an authentic manner in the game (like 100 highly sophisticated simulator-games in one) and you also do not want a dull grinding kind of experience. I think as far as it is possible, try to map the real life skills into the game, but you will simply hit the wall at some point. Well with the infection and treating system. At some point this all would end up in mini-games, and when it comes to this i have my doubts quite frankly.

Is it easier/more effectiv/reasonable if you would have a mini-game where you have to hit the vein with your syringe properly or just a slight skill that lets you finish the procedure in 1/3 of the time than normal, because it lets you assume you are better in hitting your vein?

That's where you can draw a line and say: we can implement that 1:1 or we can have something artificial in addition to add depth. At some things the one will be in favor, at other things the other one.

[Steam_Power 42]

A simulator which simulates things? What a joke.

EDIT:

DayZ made a name for itself by doing things in a way that defies expectations.

If Rocket suddenly decided that skills, XP points and level-ups are the way to go, I'd check the back of his neck for an "off" switch, because he's been abducted by aliens and replaced with a robot.

Do not agree with an XP system or levels.

[Clumzy (DayZ) 377]

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure I understand the motivation, I just disagree with the idea that it's the best way to represent abilities.

The use of meta-knowledge in DayZ really grabbed my attention, (navigation by shadows during the day and stars at night for example) and to lose it to a generic "character skill" system would be sorely disappointing.

EDIT:

Just read in another topic, FlashHawk4 has learned to read the Cyrillic alphabet after having to deal with it in DayZ.

See? There's a LOT of potential for "skills" learned in game to have real-world applications.

Mechanics has already been mentioned.

Disease diagnosis will be a feature in SA. You never know, learning "skills" from DayZ could save someone's life! (a little dramatic, but you get my point)

Haha, I'm my group's sign reader. Requiring a rudimentary knowledge of things would realistically encourage teamwork, because then you will need more people to get a job done.

[dallas 5195]

Since my community stopped playing DayZ, I'm mostly playing as a one man wolfpack, however I often team up with strangers. I believe the team-skill already exists in DayZ mod, at least that's how I explain the difference between those, who constantly complain about PvP/KOS-mentality and that I very rarely get killed by the players I meet in DayZ.

Which skills are important to socialize in Chernarus?

I think it's important to be able to use cover and concealment, to move tactically and to be very comfortable around zombies. To socialize in DayZ you must head for the most dangerous areas in Chernarus, the populated areas. To meet other people, you must find them first. It's also a good idea to distinguish between the different players hubs, which ones are competitive, which ones provides best cover against snipers, have the most access and escape routes.

You also have to train player encounters, how to survive them, escape firefights and learn how to approach a stranger safely, without appearing to be a threat yourself. Whenever you loot a supermarket, you always have to be aware of where you're pointing your weapon yourself and what the stranger is doing. You have to learn to establish communication, use communication to gauge the other person, to become as asset to him, rather than a weight around his ankle or an annoyance. You have to learn to say goodbye and learn not to embrace and smother every friendly player you meet, learn who to trust and to trust your own instincts.

What you're asking for, is already here and it's already some pretty advanced psychological shit.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Dallas

[Target Practice (DayZ) 1335]

On the subject of DayZ requiring and encouraging real-life skills, this is something I'd really like to see encouraged in the game, as it gives people a chance to shine and to contribute to the world in ways that don't just involve shooting other people in the face.

It's already in display in a mild form even in the current game - a player who can read the Cyrillic alphabet is going to be a useful asset to have around, particularly when no-one in the group has a GPS. Talented helicopter pilots are always in demand. Having someone in your group who can read a map and fix positions without a GPS makes things much, much easier in the early-mid part of the game when you're travelling inland from the South coast and all those valleys and forests look very similar to the untrained eye.

There's no reason some semblance of realism couldn't be brought into other aspects of DayZ. You find a car that has no visible signs of damage, but for some reason won't go anywhere. When the player tries to drive it, the car starts up for a second and then stalls out. A mechanically-inclined player might recognise this as a possible faulty clutch (I have no idea if this is true, I know nothing about cars!) and therefore saves the team a lot of hassle finding and replacing parts trial-and-error, as they know that the only thing they need to switch is the clutch.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Here are some classes i thought of and their uses

Medic- Can use epi pens instantly to revive a player, give blood bags and bandages slightly quicker.

Survivalist- gets more meat from gutted animals and more resistant to disease.

Engineer- can repair any part of a car (not glass or tyres) to yellow health using scrap metal.

Scavenger- more inventory slots (not sure how many)

Sniper- steady scopes after sprinting faster

Bodybuilder- does more damage with a crowbar and hatchet and can throw things further

Spotter- has the ability to estimate ranges

soldier- quicker moving from prone to standing or standing to prone.

Free runner- can not break legs or take damage from a low drop.

At best no military backgrounds...you know what happens when you give munchkins a choice.

Imma sniper imma sniper

Edited February 18, 2013 by Enforcer

[shadowleaper 22]

I think the best way to deal with this issue is use what we already have: Humanity.

Hero: The higher up to go the better you get at: "Healing, spotting players, scavenging, repairing vehicles"

Bandit: The higher up you go the more you "Carry more ammo, survive in the wild, steal etc."

The trick here is to not give any bonus combat abilities to either. Combat should stay the as neutral as possible, but the more 'Hero' you become, the more your character will not tolerate a bandit in his presence and visa versa, maybe an auto combat system that kicks in if you're too close/have line of sight or something. The opposite being true.

Another idea to all this is how each type will influence their own kind:

-Standing around a max level hero will cause your hp to go up faster because your moral gets boosted.

-Standing around a max level bandit will cause you to move faster on foot/use navigatie better etc.

Just throwing these out there, they'd all need to be balanced.

[thesodesa 99]

I don't think having a perk system that resembles CoD's, where people get to pick things beforehand is in any way a good thing. Then again I wouldn't necessarily mind having a skill system similar to The Elder Scrolls, where doing things in game would increase your proficiency at that thing, but not doing things would slowly decrease a proficiency (up/down to a certain point of course). However after reaching a certain level of proficiency it would be easier to increase it back to its highest 'level', had it been lost due to it not being used for some time.

A simple example would be that always travelling on foot would make you more fit and enable you to sprint and jog for longer periods of time. That is, moving would increase a parameter called 'stamina' or something like that. Staying still or travelling in a vehicle would count as not moving and would slowly decrease stamina. If you had reached a stamina level of 50, say, and for some reason had decided to become an SUV-potato, starting to travel on foot again after this long period of inactivity would increase the rate of stamina gain up until lvl 50 was reached. After that the rate of stamina gain would go back to normal.

So basically what I'm saying is, don't include things in the game that wouldn't really make sense in real life. Jogging would make you more fit, not exercising would have the opposite effect, but a person who's been using a sniper rifle should not suddenly gain the ability to use their rifle as a magical rangefinder. Gutting animals should always take a fair amount of time. Screwing a wheel on a broken car takes the same amount of time, every time, no matter how experienced the mechanic is (unless of course they had no idea how to do it).

I would also like Rocket to, as he implied in an interview that I watched a while ago, implement the Take on Helicopters way of starting up and flying a chopper. I don't think you should be able to do things in game you can't do in real life or in a simulator. Make giving blood as difficult as it is in real life. The area of skin to be punctured with the needle should be disinfected. Make people to actually apply a splint to a broken leg in first person view and not just through a press of a button. Implement this type of approach where ever the implementation isn't too cumbersome(don't want the game to be delayed too much ;) ).

I'm only suggesting the simulator approach because Rocket himself has said he wants this to be a survival simulator, because I know it is possible to implement and I want this to be an anti-game myself. I've been waiting for something like this to come out my entire gaming 'career'. :)

Edited February 18, 2013 by TheSodesa

[maui.arupa@gmail.com 16]

Even though the idea is interesting, I don't see a way to fit the meta.

In addition, the main thing that should entice people to work together is their will to do so, otherwise we would have safe zones, group system etc...

[Steam_Power 42]

I think the best way to deal with this issue is use what we already have: Humanity.

Hero: The higher up to go the better you get at: "Healing, spotting players, scavenging, repairing vehicles"

Bandit: The higher up you go the more you "Carry more ammo, survive in the wild, steal etc."

The trick here is to not give any bonus combat abilities to either. Combat should stay the as neutral as possible, but the more 'Hero' you become, the more your character will not tolerate a bandit in his presence and visa versa, maybe an auto combat system that kicks in if you're too close/have line of sight or something. The opposite being true.

Another idea to all this is how each type will influence their own kind:

-Standing around a max level hero will cause your hp to go up faster because your moral gets boosted.

-Standing around a max level bandit will cause you to move faster on foot/use navigatie better etc.

Just throwing these out there, they'd all need to be balanced.

That simply does not work, you can have a "hero" who is just a bandit who doesnt shoot other players and gives blood bags to his buddies all day long..

[Steam_Power 42]

I don't think having a perk system that resembles CoD's, where people get to pick things beforehand is in any way a good thing. Then again I wouldn't necessarily mind having a skill system similar to The Elder Scrolls, where doing things in game would increase your proficiency at that thing, but not doing things would slowly decrease a proficiency (up/down to a certain point of course). However after reaching a certain level of proficiency it would be easier to increase it back to its highest 'level', had it been lost due to it not being used for some time.

A simple example would be that always travelling on foot would make you more fit and enable you to sprint and jog for longer periods of time. That is, moving would increase a parameter called 'stamina' or something like that. Staying still or travelling in a vehicle would count as not moving and would slowly decrease stamina. If you had reached a stamina level of 50, say, and for some reason had decided to become an SUV-potato, starting to travel on foot again after this long period of inactivity would increase the rate of stamina gain up until lvl 50 was reached. After that the rate of stamina gain would go back to normal.

So basically what I'm saying is, don't include things in the game that wouldn't really make sense in real life. Jogging would make you more fit, not exercising would have the opposite effect, but a person who's been using a sniper rifle should not suddenly gain the ability to use their rifle as a magical rangefinder. Gutting animals should always take a fair amount of time. Screwing a wheel on a broken car takes the same amount of time, every time, no matter how experienced the mechanic is (unless of course they had no idea how to do it).

I would also like Rocket to, as he implied in an interview that I watched a while ago, implement the Take on Helicopters way of starting up and flying a chopper. I don't think you should be able to do things in game you can't do in real life or in a simulator. Make giving blood as difficult as it is in real life. The area of skin to be punctured with the needle should be disinfected. Make people to actually apply a splint to a broken leg in first person view and not just through a press of a button. Implement this type of approach where ever the implementation isn't too cumbersome(don't want the game to be delayed too much ;) ).

I'm only suggesting the simulator approach because Rocket himself has said he wants this to be a survival simulator, because I know it is possible to implement and I want this to be an anti-game myself. I've been waiting for something like this to come out my entire gaming 'career'. :)

I think we are getting away from the OP, I did not really state a "perk" system, more or less a skills system comparable to that of Sims 3. No two survivors are alike...

Edited February 21, 2013 by Steam_Power

[ICESPUR 1]

i posted this on reddit

dayz past life experience (self.dayz)

submitted 1 monthago by ICESPUR

i work in a hospital,i could if needed give myself a blood transfusion...but on the other hand i wouldnt have a clue how to change a tire on a car.

i thought maybe if players where given life experience it might prevent all servers downgrading into a p v p shoot on sight fight....

at the moment you need the players gear you dont need the player so you shoot him and take the gear..easy...what if you needed the player?

medic - to heal wounds broken legs or arms(broken arm would prevent any use of a sniper rifle

mech- to fix up cars electrican- power up them bases provide search lights builder -building bases armouer/gun smith - for modding guns hunter-for food

this way your less likely to shoot 1st incase you need help base building or getting the car moving again,just a thought.could this be implemented into the standalone?

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[–]kamizthemanI'm your plaid wearing savior 2 points 1 monthago

Rocket did say that he thought giving players somewhat of "professions" that they did before the outbreak or a skill tree that you could move up the longer your player was alive (representing you gaining useful skills the longer you were alive and had to fend for yourself) would be a cool idea.

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<a class="expand" href="http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/16sj10/dayz_past_life_experience/#">[–]ICESPUR[S] 1 point 1 monthago

i dont think gaining skills as you progress would work, my idea is to lessen p v p not promote it.gaining skills as you progress would make new spawns even more likely to be shot on sight because they have nothing to offer.having one skill based on the new spawns past life,e.g medic mech ect...would promote co-op. a bandit would think hmmm if only i could fix this car but i cant coz my player is skilled in guns.hey i woulder if that guy over there can fix cars ? better not shoot him before i find out what he can do for me 1st. it would increase a new spawns chance of survival slightly,even if it was only long enough for him to try and get away. it would make players think before they go wildly hacking away with a hatchet.. and hopefully bring back the game to what it was suppose to be intended to be a survival game in a zombie world....not as it is begining to become a death match,shoot on sight contest...yeah youll still get players who live to snipe...but im betting they will loads of players who want bases built,cars fixed, guns modded.and those are the players who would try to commuicate 1st then shoot later.

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[joe_mcentire 2074]

hej some news on this topic: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/125025-dayzmod-dayz-wins-pcpowerplay-goty-2012-and-interview-with-rocket/#entry1197704

follow the link in the link ;) a nice interview and insight of dev's idea of a possible skill system..

[joe_mcentire 2074]

go along nothing to see here...

Edited February 22, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[BwobBwub 660]

I don't like the idea of implementing classes. I prefer it would be better to have an edge over experience than an ingame class system.

[thesodesa 99]

This is the fourth time I'm posting this, but I feel justified in doing this because it relates to the subject at hand:

Just enabling players to do something other than just scavenging, fighting or driving around the map in a vehicle should drastically reduce PvP. For example once/if player bases are implemented, just managing the construction and security of the things should keep people busy enough so that the amount of PvP should drop.

I'm also still not convinced that having some sort of key control points on the map, for example the radio tower on Green Mountain, that players would need to maintain to keep radio transmissions working would be a bad idea. Having essential facilities that need to be maintained by players in order for something like radio transmissions or transportation by train to be possible on a server would also keep players busy and give them something else to do, other than fighting. Players would be encouraged to band together to form factions, since these things would of course require more than 3 people to maintain and guard against sabotage by bandits/rival player factions or rampaging zombies.

It would be a win-win for bandits and survivors alike to have more things to do and manage.

EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot. Get rid of the humanity system. All it does is enable a change of skin, that is going to become obsolete anyway after SA is released because of the ability to change clothes, and gives heroes magic sprinting capabilities.

Edited February 23, 2013 by TheSodesa

[Uuni 74]

I tried to think how skills would work, could think of any way to fit the game thematically

I tried to think how classes/traits would work, could not think of any way to fit the game atmosphere

IMO the best thing we can do is to encourage teamwork via lack of tool slots. If hatchet took up like 6 inventory slots and a toolbox would take 8, it would force people to work together to carry all of their fancy items with them

[joe_mcentire 2074]

I tried to think how skills would work, could think of any way to fit the game thematically

I tried to think how classes/traits would work, could not think of any way to fit the game atmosphere

IMO the best thing we can do is to encourage teamwork via lack of tool slots. If hatchet took up like 6 inventory slots and a toolbox would take 8, it would force people to work together to carry all of their fancy items with them

so you don't want to force ppl into a skill mechanic..but you want to force them into team-work...

[Uuni 74]

so you don't want to force ppl into a skill mechanic..but you want to force them into team-work...

Not necessarily forcing them into teamwork but rather encouraging it. By making some of the tools harder to carry players would have to make the decision between the ah-so-useful axe and a toolbox. Skills in a game like this dont feel very good approach as the game tries to make it's UI and hud as minimalist as possible. They could add a simple hunger meter but instead they chose to not do it and come up with something more immersive, we are yet to see what it is though. From what I've seen they really want to emphasize the authenticity of the survival experience, to really make you feel that you are a survivor in the zombie apocalypse. I know I wouldn't feel too immersed if I had to worry about skill developement or traits

I noticed that I have learned a great deal of things in dayZ without really thinking about it. I have learned to the mildots of the m24 rifle, I have learned to read the points of the compass from wristwatch & shadows of trees, I have learned how to move quietly in the urban areas. If there were a skill system that would allow you to see meter markers on the mildots after landing enough shots with a gun or a trait system that would let you see where is north from wristwatch & shadows or a skill system that would let you move more silently in urban areas I would feel much less immersed. There are lot of things to learn in the dayZ mod as it is without any skills or traits. Sure the things I listed aren't lost wen you die but that's not the point

What I think makes me worry about dying more in the SA than dying in the current iteration of the mod is the clothing system. When I finally manage to gather an outfit with all the parts I want it's gonna be a heartbreaking moment to lose all of that nice stuff if I die. The game with more danger elements like infections make it far more deadly world even without the player vs player interaction that makes death feel mundane