Can't we all just survive?

[FilthyHobbit 3]

Playing DayZ for about 2 weeks now, i've noticed the mentality you create for yourself when your feet come up off the sand and begin to trek their way across the countryside. STAY in the woods, Stay AWAY from towns, they're no good. RUN from everything. Shoot first, ask questions later. Now, believe me, I have no problems with bandits and their cause, it's part of the experience to run from gunfire, but why the no love for just surviving with others? Why can't we just band together on a populated server, and live together, looting, running, shooting at bandits, surviving. Instead of most servers I've been joining recently where it's spawn, go to the nearest town, shoot everything you see, die, respawn, repeat. A little rash, close to Call of Duty. I just don't want to have to be terrified of every moving thing out there, seeming as though it's impossible to make friends.

[-Gews- 7443]

At first I was afraid, I was petrified

Kept thinking I could never live with someone by my side

And I spent so many nights killing all the fresh new spawns

And I grew strong, and I learned how to get along

And so you're back, from Chernogorsk

I just walked in to find you here with that AK in my face

I should have changed that stupid plan, I should have not shot those friendlies

If I had known for just one second you'd be back to bother me

Meh, I'm bored.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Gews

[Welch (DayZ) 756]

There's stages most people go through when playing DayZ:

1) Start playing, freak the fuck out at everything there is to do, etc.

2) Learn to fire a gun and then realize (with the new patch), that you'll get fucked.

3) See a person, freak the fuck out a second time, and regardless of the consequences, you shoot the bitch because you're freaking the fuck out.

4) Post about it on the forums saying you're guilty.

5) Get back on the game and kill more people, even though you feel "guilty".

6) Realize that being a bandit is fun and so you just stick with that.

The end.

And some people take the legendary 7th step by getting bored of killing unarmed kids and do something else.

[ActionManZlt 160]

There's stages most people go through when playing DayZ:

1) Start playing, freak the fuck out at everything there is to do, etc.

2) Learn to fire a gun and then realize (with the new patch), that you'll get fucked.

3) See a person, freak the fuck out a second time, and regardless of the consequences, you shoot the bitch because you're freaking the fuck out.

4) Post about it on the forums saying you're guilty.

5) Get back on the game and kill more people, even though you feel "guilty".

6) Realize that being a bandit is fun and so you just stick with that.

The end.

And some people take the legendary 7th step by getting bored of killing unarmed kids and do something else.

Don't know what other people do, but when I got to (3), I'd either run, or hide, or take cover and use voice-chat. I've never shot on sight simply because I bumped into someone, simply because if I walk around a corner into a shotgun barrel, I'd also like to not have my intestines moved to the pavement.

The only times I've killed people are when I've been shot/swung at, or guys that are totally geared up with high-powered rifles camping on hills shooting other people in towns (probably using the duplication hacks to play deathmatch)...

The most interesting part of this game is trying to interact with other people. Why would you ruin that by instantly shooting everyone you see before they have a chance to do anything?

I've been shot a lot of times while un-armed on the coast, right after spawning, and I just don't get it. What is fun about that? I don't lose anything really, I just respawn... and they've proved that they can play Arma against someone without a gun (woo, real test of skill there!). Why not just play Arma coop mission if you want to shoot people that are no match for your gear?

Edited February 14, 2013 by ActionMan

[gamerman001 182]

Don't know what other people do, but when I got to (3), I'd either run, or hide, or take cover and use voice-chat. I've never shot on sight simply because I bumped into someone, simply because if I walk around a corner into a shotgun barrel, I'd also like to not have my intestines moved to the pavement.

The only times I've killed people are when I've been shot/swung at, or guys that are totally geared up with high-powered rifles camping on hills shooting other people in towns (probably using the duplication hacks to play deathmatch)...

The most interesting part of this game is trying to interact with other people. Why would you ruin that by instantly shooting everyone you see before they have a chance to do anything?

I've been shot a lot of times while un-armed on the coast, right after spawning, and I just don't get it. What is fun about that? I don't lose anything really, I just respawn... and they've proved that they can play Arma against someone without a gun (woo, real test of skill there!). Why not just play Arma coop mission if you want to shoot people that are no match for your gear?

I noticed the study increase in bandits when dayz started to become popular and these little xbox CoD playing fag bags started begging their mommys and daddys for gaming computers.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Be prepared.. you have two options: change game + enjoy the "classic" fps style game play... because the stand-alone will be even worse, due to the fact that it's packed to be sold to the "mass market" (mass market = mosly casual players = aka cod kids). You can't blame the developers, this is what 90% of players (if not more) wants due to the increase of the casual players because of the consoles market, they cannot please that 10% of "true hardcore experience" players, it wouldn't make sense money wise. Forget about this forum, most ppl here are much far from the millions outside there.. most of them are interested only into running the game and start shooting to get fun for some time, the surviving aspect is only an annoying interval between the pvp: why in the hell i should eat, drink, setup a base, or whatever.. when i know perfectly that i'll be engaged into a pvp (with half chance of dying) every 10 minutes? :)

[Inception. 9443]

The only thing that is like Call of Duty is the "kill on sight" aspect, nothing else. Other than that they're completely different.

[IHombreI 16]

Thats why they have to come up with something in the standalone (for example that you can repair the electro power plant with alot of teamwork and doing so all the streetlights and the train will work). It has to be something everyone profits from that everyone has to lay down their weapons and help.

[hogscraper 328]

You need to find a private hive that caters to you. Public servers are so full of hackers, most people play to kill right away, (at least that's my experience from the public hives I have joined). There's still killing on private servers but you seem to find people more organized and less willing to be douche bags if they have a community they care about.

[xtchero 0]

What i think would have been amazing is if the servers got a "Karma" system. Like, if you shoot a survivor, you lose karma. If you kill for example 5 peoples, you will get banned for 24 hours. If you kill a hero, that counts as 2 karma. Which means that you can only kill 3 more survivors. If you kill a bandit, you will get back karma, up to 5 karma. The server owners are gonna be able to choose the karma system if they want to have it. It's not default, but you can enable it from a list.

[DazTroyer 227]

I love nothing more than finding a high pop server, spawning in Cherno and finding my way through town. Kitting up with a map, food, meds and gun. The more people the better, maybe I will get shot, killed or rob a couple players but then that's the fun of it. :)

[Mr Nasty 1023]

Playing DayZ for about 2 weeks now, i've noticed the mentality you create for yourself when your feet come up off the sand and begin to trek their way across the countryside. STAY in the woods, Stay AWAY from towns, they're no good. RUN from everything. Shoot first, ask questions later. Now, believe me, I have no problems with bandits and their cause, it's part of the experience to run from gunfire, but why the no love for just surviving with others? Why can't we just band together on a populated server, and live together, looting, running, shooting at bandits, surviving. Instead of most servers I've been joining recently where it's spawn, go to the nearest town, shoot everything you see, die, respawn, repeat. A little rash, close to Call of Duty. I just don't want to have to be terrified of every moving thing out there, seeming as though it's impossible to make friends.

You're a little late to the party thats all. A lot of players have been around for months so surviving is as easy as pie thats why people resort to PvP. It will change in the SA when zombies are a much larger threat.

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

Short answer is: No, unless you find a low-pop private server where you can know (and maybe meet) people as time goes by.

In dayz resources (loot) are limited, especially after 1.7.5.1 so players must compete for food, beverages, tools and weapons and everyone is afraid of loosing his M4A1 CCO SD.

Weapons is really what you need less due to the new aggro system. If you have an hatchet, a L-E and a clip you are good to go. You will not shoot around towns and for the occasional PvP who sees first shoots first, so it ends quickly.

Zombies are fine if you have the hatchet and can find a building nearby.

Food and beverages,meat, tools... Those you have either to find around, or in the backpack of dead players.

Find stuff around requires patience and time. Kill others is quick and some people have fun with it, must have had a difficult childhood but to each his own.

_Anubis_

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

What i think would have been amazing is if the servers got a "Karma" system. Like, if you shoot a survivor, you lose karma. If you kill for example 5 peoples, you will get banned for 24 hours. If you kill a hero, that counts as 2 karma. Which means that you can only kill 3 more survivors. If you kill a bandit, you will get back karma, up to 5 karma. The server owners are gonna be able to choose the karma system if they want to have it. It's not default, but you can enable it from a list.

It is not so black and white. Most of the times the situation is grey and you must decide whether to shoot [first] or most likely get killed.

_Anubis_

p.s. also you do not remain bandit forever if you kill another player

Edited February 14, 2013 by _Anubis_

[herrjon 478]

The issue is, most of us experienced players have a group we play with or can hold our own and can't be bothered to look after a bambie. The newer players are anxious and traumatized from being killed on sight and so desperate to not die from hunger, they will shoot anything that moves. There still are people out there who are friendly and will help you out, but you can just go running at them screaming "FRIENDLY". You just have to go about it the right way.

What i think would have been amazing is if the servers got a "Karma" system. Like, if you shoot a survivor, you lose karma. If you kill for example 5 peoples, you will get banned for 24 hours. If you kill a hero, that counts as 2 karma. Which means that you can only kill 3 more survivors. If you kill a bandit, you will get back karma, up to 5 karma. The server owners are gonna be able to choose the karma system if they want to have it. It's not default, but you can enable it from a list.

Temp ban for killing a bit is completely against the purpose of the game. Players are supposed to be free to do what they want with what they have. If someone wants to go on a killing spree and have the skills and supplies to do it, then they can very well go ahead. I feel the bandit skin is plenty for "karma" of killing, maybe just having a simple way of identifying a bandit in gillie or camo. Rocket had said for the standalone he doesn't want to punish people for PvP, but make the world more harsh on people so those KoS people will have a rough time surviving unless they have a full squad helping them out.

I know people have posted here and there they want PvE servers on the main hive and standalone, but I don't think they realize how that would be. I played on a Nalask server that banned anyone who even shot another player, and honestly, it was the move boring DayZ experience of my life. I would just nonchalantly clear out a town of zeds with my M1014 without a care, no worry, no adrenaline, just some a mindless shooter where I'd have to find some food and ammo every now and then. If I had teamed up with someone, it would've been even worse. It the rush of meeting someone and trying talk to them and help them not knowing if they're going to shoot my face off the next chance they get, or they have a sniper buddy, that what I enjoy about the game.

Edited February 14, 2013 by (TMW)HerrJon

[Bribase 251]

You need to find a private hive that caters to you. Public servers are so full of hackers, most people play to kill right away, (at least that's my experience from the public hives I have joined). There's still killing on private servers but you seem to find people more organized and less willing to be douche bags if they have a community they care about.

I was going to recommend the same thing. Whitelisted, private servers, or at least the one that I play on exclusively has close-knit bandit death squads, two man teams that sometimes integrate with others, lone wolf pacificist survivors, one man armies, groups of moderate players that will kill if threatened (but not always) and at least two resident medics that never harm other players. The server runs the gamut of different playstyles.

Private servers have a way of forcing players to consider their reputation before pulling the trigger. A TS3 server is opened for us with multiple channels and it is compulsory to use it while playing on the server, even if you just keep a channel to yourself. That way people can keep abrest of the goings on, on the map without someone screaming it over the side channel. The gameplay extends much further than KOS and loot. People have protected medics and fixed up helis to give to them, rival squads have joined up to take down a common foe, previously trusted squad members have gone rogue...

Join a whitelisted server. You'll never bother with public ones again.

[Sula 1205]

I agree with HerrJon, banning someone, even temporarily, would defeat the purpose of the game - for people to play the game freely.

However, I agree with Brisbase too. Find a whitelisting community and you won't want to play anywhere else ever again. We have bandits and we love them. They're an essential part of our community. I'm sure all whitelisting servers feel the same way. Everyone is responsible for what they do, so they don't do stupid things very often. They want to come back again the next day, so they remember that before they act. It's a good way to play DayZ.

If bandits and survivors are in a fightout, they generally congratulate whoever wins and praise the fight in the forums. :thumbsup:

I used to think I loathed bandits but it was PvP kids that drove me nuts with their killing anyone they could, their squealing, shouting in the mic, and generally just being noisy regular kids. Ugh! Not for me.

[Bribase 251]

If bandits and survivors are in a fightout, they generally congratulate whoever wins and praise the fight in the forums. :thumbsup:

Absolutely. It's customary now to scan the TS3 channels to find out who killed you if you didn't know already, talk about the experience and even share tactics on how they got the upper hand. It's often nice to realise that even the most bloodthirsty, remorseless arsehole on the server really isn't one IRL. They just like to play a certain way.

[herrjon 478]

Absolutely. It's customary now to scan the TS3 channels to find out who killed you if you didn't know already, talk about the experience and even share tactics on how they got the upper hand. It's often nice to realise that even the most bloodthirsty, remorseless arsehole on the server really isn't one IRL. They just like to play a certain way.

I second this. I can appreciate a good bandit who knows their stuff and doesn't resort to just scripting to get the job done. I recall a time on Taviana where I was looting the ATC tower of the East Airfield, found a DMR on the top floor, and just as I pick it up, I see a flash down at the other end. I hit the deck and hear the bullet wiz by my head. He takes a few shot at me, but could do anything as I was laying down. Get down on the ground, fall back to the forest and attempt to find him. I did spot him briefly, but he was changing positions and moving quickly, and I had no idea on the range, so I was only able to hit around him. At this point zeds were getting a bit crazy (I already kinda had a horde riled up before going into the ATC tower), so I had to leave the area.

After I got somewhere safe, I exchanged pleasantries with him over side chat, asked him what gun he was using (M24) and how far away he was (~600). He even told me he saw me before I went into the building with my Lee Enfield, but didn't shoot until he saw me pick up the DMR (dunno if he planted it or what, but w/e). I congratulated him on his fine shooting and left the server. He asked me to come back and "play" but I had to go anyways.

Basically, not all bandits are dicks. They just want to play the game as Arma with zombies around, which is fine, it's a sandbox after all. I chose to play as the idiot who runs into danger to save a stranger, but that's just me, I don't expect that of anyone. You just have to figure out what you want to do with the game and find those with a similar mindset, and watch out for those who don't. The only unacceptable way to play is scripting, which should be handled in SA.

[Positronica 30]

A lot of people like to blame the PvP/KOS mentality on Call of Duty console gamers and what not, but I think that's a pretty minor reason. I think the real reason is more complex, though, and probably comes down to a lot of factors being added together...

1. DayZ is built upon a first person shooter engine, and the only things there are to shoot at is zombies (which for the most part is pointless) and other players. All of the most polished mechanics in the game are based around combat, so it's only natural for players to spend their time making use of those mechanics.

2. Almost all the high end loot in the game is a wide selection of various firearms. Once players get that loot, their only options for using that loot are again to shoot at zombies (which mostly pointless) or shoot at other players. Players aren't going to want to collect fancy guns just for the same of looking at them. They want to use them on something, an using them on other players is one of the few things they're good for.

3. There's no real consequence to being a murdering psychopath. The humanity system, due both to game engine limitations and lack of development, doesn't really mean much to most players. The consequences for being a KOS, bambi-hunting bandit are minimal, while at the same time the rewards for being a friendly, non-murdering hero are also just as minimal.

4. The consequences of losing at PvP, i.e., death, for a late-game player are minimal. After you've got the early game figured out, and once you've got a camp or two set up and stocked with gear, all that dying in PvP means is that you gotta jog to the nearest stash of supplies, rearm yourself, and then you're right back in the PvP endgame.

5. The hardcore nature of DayZ, along with it's open PvP element, maximizes the amount of grief and hardship you can inflict on newb players while minimizing the effort you have to put in. Every multiplayer game has a percentage of it's playerbase that derives fun by inducing rage and grief in other players. DayZ, by it's very nature is more accommodating to such players than a lot of other games.

6. DayZ does not have a lot of in-game tools to allow players to convey a non-hostile attitude or position. Our characters all look pretty much the same, which makes it impossible to identify a friend unless one of you speaks first, and by default everyone is running around with a weapon cocked and loaded in a combat stance with their finger on the trigger. There's no reason in the game to ever not walk around with your weapon ready for an immediate snap shot

7. The tactics new players have to use in cities in town to avoid the zombies, i.e., crawling, moving slow, keeping your axe out instead of a gun, and standing still often to examine your surroundings are the same tactics that make a player very easy prey for another player. Until you've played the game for a while and learned just how much you can run and gun around zombies without getting into too much trouble, you end up being cautious around the zombies, and ultimately making yourself easy bandit bait.

8. Bambies and advanced players repeatedly get thrown or pushed towards the same regions of the game. Sure Chernarus is a pretty large game world, but a lot of it is pretty much void of really interesting stuff. Unless you're looking for higher end military spawns, there's really no reason you have to leave the bambi filled coastal areas, unless you want to. There's no special loot beyond the military spawns that can't be found in Cherno or Elektro.

That all being said, here's some ideas on how the KOS mentality in the game could be helped somewhat...

A. Add additional game mechanics that aren't first person shooter related. A crafting system and new loot associated with it would give advanced players other activities besides PvP. A more advanced base/camp-building system would provide more non-PvP endgame content as well.

B. Add more PvE elements that required firepower to overcome, and give players meaningful rewards for overcoming these PvE obstacles. This would give players something useful to do with all their guns besides killing other players.

C. Improve the humanity system drastically. Killing other players solely for sport should have meaningful consequences next time you respawn. The system should also be able to gauge just how egregious your player-killing was. For example, killing an unarmed player at range using a sniper rifle should give you a massive hit to your humanity, whereas panic shooting an armed player the moment after you stumble into him at close range shouldn't penalize you as much. The penalties for having low humanity need to be more severe as well, such as being relegated to poorer, more out of the way spawn points, or spawning in already hungry or thirsty, or already low on blood. The rewards for high humanity need to be better, too, such as respawning closer to your corpse, or getting a character that can run faster and has higher starting blood, or perhaps spawning in with some food and drink already in your inventory so that your recovery time from death is reduced.

D. More clothing options and other ways for players to make their identity more distinct, so that players on the same server might eventually be able to start recognizing those who are regulars, removing some of the anonymity from PvP.

E. Change some of the loot spawns so that things are spread out more over Chernarus. Remove most of the mid-tier loot from the coast and make better use in the inland cities. This would push players who are playing the PvE game into spreading out more across Chernarus, and would make it harder for bandits to camp the few high traffic locations.