Ammunition types

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

Honestly don't most militaries just use one type of ammo

in assault rifles, yes, in MGs they use tracers, and that is already present in ARMA/dayz (M240 and Mk48 have tracers by default every 3rd or 4th round, don't know if they are only tracers or also incendiaries as well)

[enforcer1975 1111]

is it unrealistic to find special military ammo used for special operations?

Edit: SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL!

Special can become very common very fast thanks to modded mission files.

I agree it shouldn't be on top of the dev's list, but if we can find candy like military type weapons it would also be "realistic" to find military type ammo;

to some extent at least; military ammo is nothing special IRL, usually civilian ammo is of better quaity anyways, except for AP and incindiaries.

Military ammo is already existent in the game, that's what you are shooting with..or what did you think... you were shooting plastic bbs?

[indominator 95]

nice proposition, but they should be rare as unused iodine would be, very rare, normal ammunition is the only common especially for civilian armaments and remember that the focus is on civilian stuff so prolly they will have these ammos but stupidly rare

[aksuduud 64]

A simple split to FMJs and HPs would make sense, military stuff is always FMJ and civilian stuff is usually but not always HP.

[radivmoe 47]

nice proposition, but they should be rare as unused iodine would be, very rare, normal ammunition is the only common especially for civilian armaments and remember that the focus is on civilian stuff so prolly they will have these ammos but stupidly rare

Hollow points would be pretty common if people have weapons used for hunting, so... duct tape?

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

Military ammo is already existent in the game, that's what you are shooting with..or what did you think... you were shooting plastic bbs?

lol, bits and bytes actually

Military special type ammo, as in AP ammo, never saw it in dayz yet...

[enforcer1975 1111]

lol, bits and bytes actually

Military special type ammo, as in AP ammo, never saw it in dayz yet...

I meant the regular bullets... AP, tracers and even RAUFOSS for the .50 already exist in ACE. Not that it's really necessary for survival in DayZ though...I'd rather have a can of beans instead of a truckload of AP ammunition in a eat or die situation.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

Like you said, there is already subsonic ammunition for the appropriate weapons. Seems pointless to suggest it.

As for things like HE, and incendiary. I say no, no, and no. That ammunition types are for Sci-fi games, not dayZ.

I do agree that standard bullet types should be able to be found. For the Makarov, it would be nice to be able to find standard jacketed rounds that the military use, along with all lead bullets. I know that there is a special 9x18 called 9x18 +P+ that is more powerful due to increased pressure.

Calibers like 5.45x39 would have less variety, most likely. I am not a fire arms expert ,but most militarys only use FMJ rounds and subsonic rounds. I believe the Geneva conventions banned lead ammunition for the military.

Hollow points seem okay, except I am not sure that they would be available. I suppose if they are extremely rare, it would be okay.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Vindicator

[m.w. vindicator 880]

I am pretty sure "Armour piercing" rounds are the same as FMJ rounds. Standard military bullets are FMJ even if it doesn't say it. Despite what CoD leads you to believe, FMJ is pretty standard. Civilian's probably use jacketed ammo too but some variations would exist.

The whole argument saying they should add military ammunition is null and void. The game is based on Arma for god's sake.

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

FMJ=copper jacket around lead core = will deform on impact with hard surface

AP=steel core with copper jacket = will penetrate

since rocket already confirmed body armor, wouldn't it make sense to have AP ammo as well?

As per subsonic rounds, you will not find any 223., 5.45x39 subsonic ammo, and most subsonic rounds in 7,62x39 will not cycle an AK; so from this perspective a subsonic M4 as seen in arma that can cycle both subsonic and supersonic 5,56 ammo IS Sci-fi, Not to mention subsonic 5,56 ammo would have lower power than the Makarov,so IMO should be removed.

Do we need these ammo types? probably not;

Would they make the game more interesting? probably yes

[radivmoe 47]

Like you said, there is already subsonic ammunition for the appropriate weapons. Seems pointless to suggest it.

As for things like HE, and incendiary. I say no, no, and no. That ammunition types are for Sci-fi games, not dayZ.

i did not suggest subsonic, it was in the poll as a comparison to see if people wanted this implemented more than they wanted to keep subsonic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_ammunition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_incendiary

(i know, wikipedia, not trustworthy and stuff. look at the referances and links.)

[radivmoe 47]

i looked at the poll and thought wow, people really did not like this. then i added all votes for different ammo up, and guess what, people want more types of ammo.

(of course my addition did not include subsonic)

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

I believe the dev's should keep it as "realistik" as possible for the area and the inhabitants. Exotic ammo should be rare if not almost non existent and standard ammo types should be scarce.

I think the mod (being in a milsim) has spoiled our tastes with a little too much militaria.

Heck, if I found an old Martini-Henry and 6 rounds of viable ammo, I'd be a happy camper in that situation.

L

EDIT: no vote from me as I think the WTF selection does not reflect my views.

Edited February 1, 2013 by orlok

[radivmoe 47]

OOPS DOUBLE POST!

Edited February 1, 2013 by radivmoe

[radivmoe 47]

Hello there

I believe the dev's should keep it as "realistik" as possible for the area and the inhabitants. Exotic ammo should be rare if not almost non existent and standard ammo types should be scarce.

I think the mod (being in a milsim) has spoiled our tastes with a little too much militaria.

Heck, if I found an old Martini-Henry and 6 rounds of viable ammo, I'd be a happy camper in that situation.

L

EDIT: no vote from me as I think the WTF selection does not reflect my views.

i think i already covered that military special ammo would be very rare, hollow points though...

Edit: YAY, FORUM STAFF IN MY TOPIC! WOOO! YAY!

Edited February 1, 2013 by radivmoe

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I couldn't bring myself to make a choice in the poll, but I'm of the opinion that ALL ammo should be rare as fuck, so what do I know?

Hunting rifles strike me as a rural thing, and the villages in Chernarus aren't exactly huge.

For example, in Prigorodky (SP?) I'd imagine maybe a half-dozen rifles stashed about. But I can't seriously picture there being a massive stockpile of ammunition.

IF body-armour is in SA it would make sense to have ammo to counter its protection, but steel/copper or steel/nylon rounds would have to be the Mountain Dew of bullets.

Less emphasis on firearms in general would be more in keeping with the setting IMO.

Guns + ammo should be SERIOUSLY rare + valuable. The greatest commodity in the post-apocalyptic world.

World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Chabowski

[radivmoe 47]

I couldn't bring myself to make a choice in the poll, but I'm of the opinion that ALL ammo should be rare as fuck, so what do I know?

Hunting rifles strike me as a rural thing, and the villages in Chernarus aren't exactly huge.

For example, in Prigorodky (SP?) I'd imagine maybe a half-dozen rifles stashed about. But I can't seriously picture there being a massive stockpile of ammunition.

IF body-armour is in SA it would make sense to have ammo to counter its protection, but steel/copper or steel/nylon rounds would have to be the Mountain Dew of bullets.

Less emphasis on firearms in general would be more in keeping with the setting IMO.

Guns + ammo should be SERIOUSLY rare + valuable. The greatest commodity in the post-apocalyptic world.

World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.

agreed, but then the ammo could be rarer than NVGs at barracks. the standalone rarity that is.

Edit: since "find at home" guns will be a bigger part of the arsenal in the SA, i think that "find at home" (hollow point, soft point AND FMJ) ammunition would be a bigger part of the arsenal as well.

Edited February 6, 2013 by radivmoe

[m.w. vindicator 880]

i did not suggest subsonic, it was in the poll as a comparison to see if people wanted this implemented more than they wanted to keep subsonic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_ammunition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_incendiary

(i know, wikipedia, not trustworthy and stuff. look at the referances and links.)

I know HE and incendiary is real. I just don't think it should be in dayZ

[terminal_boy 860]

IF body-armour is in SA it would make sense to have ammo to counter its protection, but steel/copper or steel/nylon rounds would have to be the Mountain Dew of bullets.

Every 5.56 NATO (M855 in the US) round made since the early 1980s features a bullet made to defeat combat body armour at 300 metres. These are referred to as STANAG rounds in DayZ as the introduction of this round across NATO was done through the adoption of STANAG 4172.

Please note that just about any modern military round will penetrate the Level 3 soft armour commonly issued by most 1st and 2nd world armed forces as this is only rated to protect against pistol calibre and fragmentation threats. It's the hard plate inserts that are designed to defeat rifle rounds.

[enforcer1975 1111]

If they add body armor they should also simulate the pain you have when you get hit. You might be able to stand up again but i bet you will feel very lousy after that. There was a soldier who got hit in the plate and still broke a rib or two.

[Draco122 412]

Here's my thoughts on this:

* HE and Incendiary are somewhat one and the same, both have an explosive element but are largely restricted to Heavy Machine Guns and Anti-Material Rifles. Incendiary rounds are often confused with Machine Gun tracers which are already in-game as it is. HE/Incendiary rounds Should only be used for Anti-Material rifles like the AS-50 and Barrett .50 Cal for the purpose of taking down vehicles and/or equipment from extreme range. If the poll went for ALL weapons, I'd say restrict the use of HE rounds to Explosive Grenades and Rockets used in various Launchers like the M79, M203 and any man-portable Rocket Launcher like the RPG-7 for example.

* Some ammo is already subsonic, a standard .45 ACP load for example is inherently subsonic when fired from a handgun or sub-machine gun, which is why they are popular for Special Forces, no need to swap magazines for specialised sub-sonic ammunition. However the most common kinds of sub-sonic ammunition are .22, .9mm and .45 with rifle calibers in .30 caliber range capable of being sub-sonic. .223/5,56 and 5,45 sub-sonic ammo like many have said is inherently rare to being non-existent, whats more is that most 5,56 sub-sonic ammo often does not cycle the action of most fully-automatic rifles like the M4, M16 or AK-74. If SD or Subsonic ammo is to exist, it should remain in the use of Handguns, Sub-Machine guns and very select rifles. In my opinion, Suppressors on weapons like the M4 should only muffle the shot from long range, reduce the chances of detection by players and elimanate muzzle flash. Forget rounds like STANAG SD and stick with just standard SD pistol rounds.

* Hollow Points are frequently used for Hunting rifles, they also used in a number of Handguns in Civilian and Police use. I think they deserve a place with there being Hollow Points which offer the greatest damage to unarmored targets and soft points which offer mild penetration with mild tissue damage, also with the advent of a crafting system in SA, the ability to craft "Dum-Dums" or improvised Hollow points should be considered from easily aquired ammo such as .45 ACP.

I've also got a few of mine own I'd like to share:

1. Match Grade - Refers to ammo which is used for Accuracy and finely tuned for that purpose, commonly used in Sniper Rifles, used by Military and Police Sharpshooters as well as Civilians for Shooting Sports such as Target Shooting and Hunting. Often tagged alongside other types of bullet, like Match Grade Hollow Point for example.
   
2. FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) - Only really available for the majority of Military Rifles and rarely appearing for Military Handguns (such as the M9). Increases chance of penetrating Soft Body Armor (Armor without a ballistic plate). Only found on Military grade weapons.
   
3. AP (Armor Peircing) - Used for high powered Military Sniper Rifles and Battle Rifles, can penetrate Vehicle Armor, Hard Body Armor and light cover (such as sheet metal) with a decrease in tissue damage. Doesn't expand as much on contact, leaving a less severe wound. Found at significantly rarer chance in Military Loot Spawns.
   
4. Handloaded - Like Match grade, appears alongside an additional ammo type like "Handloaded Hollow Point". Increases chance of a weapon jamming and/or a catastrohpic failure of the weapon (the gun blowing up). Could also be available as a crafting option with the right materials.
   
5. Corrosive Ammo - Like Match Grade and Handloaded, it appears next to a regular type of round, like Corrosive Hollow Point. Refers to very old ageing ammo that is often dangerous to use in a firearm. Increases chance of a weapon jamming and actually damages the gun the more you use it without cleaning it (presuming you can actually clean your guns in SA). Fairly common ammo drop, but care should be taken.
   
6. Overpressure Ammo - Only used for Handguns and Sub-machine Guns, increases range, speed velocity and damage of each round. Available in .9x18mm, 9x19mm and .45 ACP. Often signified with a +P or +P+ next to the ammo type to signify the difference.
   

Edited February 1, 2013 by Draco122

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

Match grade - should be very rare, other types should be less accurate

Given the setting, Corrosive steel cased ammo would/should be the most common for AKs and Dragunovs (surplus USSR ammo in and ex USSR state)...

Handloaded and Overpressure ammo is a bit much IMO (handload only if crafting is introduced, if they are meant as handloads before the outbreak it is pointless - with current modern hand-loading machines reliability is not an issue)

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

While the gunologists factize the topic, I'd like to make the point -

Whenever anybody attempts to kill another player, they use their most lethal toys.

I'd only consider "body armour" worth the time if it is going to stop rifle rounds.

Don't DayZmod "Hero" skins supposedly have armour?

If that's true I've never noticed any ballistic protection in all my heroing days. And that's my point.

My knowledge of the ins-and-outs of weave vs. plate (or whatever) isn't exactly spectacular.

I have occasion to "geek-out" about many things, but NATO aggreements isn't one of them.

@Enforcer, I'd also like to see impact-pain simulated in some way.

There's a good chance you'd be on your ass for a whiley, and when you get up you'd move at reduced pace.

Maybe a "Resident Evil" injured animation (hand over your abdomen, with a slight limp) would work.

Just a thought, Players already shrug off gunfire without batting an eye. "Injury" needs to be expanded on. IMO

EDIT: spelling

Edited February 1, 2013 by Chabowski

[Sutinen 635]

While the gunologists factize the topic, I'd like to make the point -

Whenever anybody attempts to kill another player, they use their most lethal toys.

I'd only consider "body armour" worth the time if it is going to stop rifle rounds.

Don't DayZmod "Hero" skins supposedly have armour?

If that's true I've never noticed any ballistic protection in all my heroing days. And that's my point.

My knowledge of the ins-and-outs of weave vs. plate (or whatever) isn't exactly spectacular.

I have occasion to "geek-out" about many things, but NATO aggreements isn't one of them.

@Enforcer, I'd also like to see impact-pain simulated in some way.

There's a good chance you'd be on your ass for a whiley, and when you get up you'd move at reduced pace.

Maybe a "Resident Evil" injured animation (hand over your abdomen, with a slight limp) would work.

Just a thought, Players already shrug off gunfire without batting an eye. "Injury" needs to be expanded on. IMO

EDIT: spelling

Well, most bandits wont try to kill anyone with a 9mm weapon.. Any bigger caliber will punch trough it.

[enforcer1975 1111]

If you are close enough anything will hurt. You are not superman, there is still flesh and bones behind that armor that has to absorb a lot of left over energy. That's physics in action.

While we're at it...there was a bandit who tried to shoot me with a M9 at spitting distance, my first kill in DayZ. Unfortunately for him i had a M14 and a buddy with a FN Fal...