Modception and DayZ copyright.

[Bribase 251]

I hope it's okay to open up a thread to speculate on this. Plus I hope it's okay to mention the other mods out there.

I was reading the entries in the PC Gamer site today and came across an article about a new spin-off mod of DayZ called DayZ origins. To my surprise it was met with accusations of being another attempt to cash in and piggyback off of DayZ's success in the comment section.

As far as I understand, Rocket has been perfectly happy with mods of DayZ being developed. It could be argued that they have been a source of new ideas for future updates and even the SA.

But I wonder what might happen when the SA is released? Will those mods that have made a genuine departure from DayZ but have continually been developed alongside vanilla Dayz be abandoned? Will some players prefer the free Mod of Dayz to the robust, professionally developed but pay to play version?

It's going to be a serious issue if potential sales are lost because some people feel more alllegiance to the mod of the mod than the finished article. Do you envisage Rocket taking steps, legal or otherwise to prohibit future development of mods like Zombies.nu, DayZ-Origins and DayZ 2017. Perhaps he may even strike a deal by prohibiting future modception but encouraging mods of the standalone?

I can see why the PCgamer crowd feel this way about spinoffs and rival developers at his stage in development. Certain developers (not worth mentioning here) have already done their best to rip-off DayZ's ideas and lots of people feel quite protective of it as part of the commmunity that feel in a small way part of the development process and community as a whole. Stealing ideas from DayZ is one thing but what about people continuing to use chunks of code for free that is now a marketable product?

[DemonGroover 8836]

As far as i am aware, if they are using any of Rocket's code then credit must be given. What this credit is, is another matter and up to Rocket and BI i suppose.

I have tried Origins for an hour or two and haven't really progressed since it turned into a deathmatch. Considering there is now a common enemy (apart from the sporadic zombies) i rather hoped for a combined effort.

It will be interesting to see what happens with these "inspired by DayZ" spinoffs and especially how Rocket feels about them.

[Rage VG 4033]

I personally feel that NO mod for a game should be sold. The player had paid for the game already, why make them pay even more? I'd fully understand asking for donations or, heck, even microtransactions if you think you can implement them properly but for god's sake, I'm never flat-out paying for a random thing someone's tacking onto my game. DLC is different; they are additions to the game the company created to enhance it directly. A mod is not DLC. Not only do I have no reason to pay, but I don't feel the other person should have the authority to do that.

DayZ+, Wasteland, etc, those are all great and they're mods and they're free, and they got a tonne of support and that's simply how it should be. Brilliant mods/addons get tonnes of popularity and influence.

That's how it was with DayZ in the first place, AND THAT'S HOW 'MERICUH DOES IT.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Rage VG

[SmashT 10907]

Rocket is a huge fan of these mods and encourages them, I very much doubt he would suddenly change his stance when the standalone comes out. If that were the case he wouldn't have turned the mod over to the community in the first place.

[Bribase 251]

I personally feel that NO mod for a game should be sold. The player had paid for the game already, why make them pay even more? I'd fully understand asking for donations or, heck, even microtransactions if you think you can implement them properly but for god's sake, I'm never flat-out paying for a random thing someone's tacking onto my game. DLC is different; they are additions to the game the company created to enhance it directly. A mod is not DLC. Not only do I have no reason to pay, but I don't feel the other person should have the authority to do that.

DayZ+, Wasteland, etc, those are all great and they're mods and they're free, and they got a tonne of support and that's simply how it should be. Brilliant mods/addons get tonnes of popularity and influence.

That's how it was with DayZ in the first place, AND THAT'S HOW 'MERICUH DOES IT.

I honestly don't think that SA will qualify as a mod in any way. Although it's pretty subjective i guess.

[theirongiant 200]

I personally feel that NO mod for a game should be sold. The player had paid for the game already, why make them pay even more? I'd fully understand asking for donations or, heck, even microtransactions if you think you can implement them properly but for god's sake, I'm never flat-out paying for a random thing someone's tacking onto my game. DLC is different; they are additions to the game the company created to enhance it directly. A mod is not DLC. Not only do I have no reason to pay, but I don't feel the other person should have the authority to do that.

DayZ+, Wasteland, etc, those are all great and they're mods and they're free, and they got a tonne of support and that's simply how it should be. Brilliant mods/addons get tonnes of popularity and influence.

That's how it was with DayZ in the first place, AND THAT'S HOW 'MERICUH DOES IT.

Surely if a developer wants to ask for remuneration then that's their decision. If someone puts a lot of time into making a brilliant mod then I'm sure they'll appreciate popularity and influence but it won't be putting food on their table. You're draw a fairly arbitrary line between DLC and mods, maybe if people were more prepared to dip into their pocket a little then we'd have even more great mods like DayZ.

[OrLoK 16182]

mods are great even if they are "over inspired"

paying for a mod.....no....not at all.

I could justify the 12 quid or so I paid for Iron Front as that had first class models and changes to the engine in several important places but would balk at paying a higher price.

Any other mod though...

[Rage VG 4033]

Surely if a developer wants to ask for remuneration then that's their decision. If someone puts a lot of time into making a brilliant mod then I'm sure they'll appreciate popularity and influence but it won't be putting food on their table.

I think you would have to be nuts if you were relying solely on income from a mod of a game. If they gain popularity through the mod, then that would of course mean that any projects they create afterwards will have a higher likelihood of succeeding, which they can (In my opinion) rightfully charge for and profit from.

In other words, just like DayZ.

You're draw a fairly arbitrary line between DLC and mods, maybe if people were more prepared to dip into their pocket a little then we'd have even more great mods like DayZ.

That's because I rarely, if ever, buy DLC for games, because even whilst I can justify its existence, I still dislike paying for parts of my game after the initial purchase.

And yes, if people were more happy to give away their money, we might see a few more good mods, but of course we'd also see A LOT more crappy ones trying to cash in on it, more than what currently exists.

I honestly don't think that SA will qualify as a mod in any way. Although it's pretty subjective i guess.

I wasn't referring to the standalone. The standalone is for all intents and purposes a full-on game, and I'm more than willing to agree that it's worth paying for. The only reason we know of such a game and obviously the only reason the game exists is because it became popular and beloved from being a free mod. Read the above, you'll see what I mean.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Rage VG

[Frankenstein's Monster 11]

Rocket is a huge fan of these mods and encourages them, I very much doubt he would suddenly change his stance when the standalone comes out. If that were the case he wouldn't have turned the mod over to the community in the first place.

Mods that subsequently makes him look bad? Sorry, but the guy who does that to me would've gotten a fist full of bricks to the face and groin.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Frankenstein's Monster

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Rocket is a huge fan of these mods and encourages them, I very much doubt he would suddenly change his stance when the standalone comes out. If that were the case he wouldn't have turned the mod over to the community in the first place.

What Smash said, I doubt Rocket is going to get heavy handed with mods unless someone is using them for direct financial gain using his coding. Modding is something that happens quite a bit in Arma circles, knee capping this awesome feature just to maintain tight control over the DayZ mod experience would be a huge departure for both Rocket and BI.

Even if a mod "makes him look bad" I would say you take the good with the bad. Why lock down a project that was built from modding, would seem somewhat arrogant to do this to the mod (standalone is his choice, even there I would love to see modding eventually even if it has to wait awhile).

[Bribase 251]

I wasn't referring to the standalone. The standalone is for all intents and purposes a full-on game, and I'm more than willing to agree that it's worth paying for. The only reason we know of such a game and obviously the only reason the game exists is because it became popular and beloved from being a free mod. Read the above, you'll see what I mean.

Then I'm not sure how your post is relevant. What DayZ spinoffs are charging for anything?

[theirongiant 200]

I think you would have to be nuts if you were relying solely on income from a mod of a game. If they gain popularity through the mod, then that would of course mean that any projects they create afterwards will have a higher likelihood of succeeding, which they can (In my opinion) rightfully charge for and profit from.

In other words, just like DayZ.

I'm sure I read that BIS were happy for Rocket to develop the mod while he was on the payroll, imagine if it had taken another year or two to get where it is today because he had a regular 9-5 to deal with as well. I'd rather see a small bit of money going to loads of independent developers taking risks rather than a handful of established corporations churning out cookie cutter remakes.

[Rage VG 4033]

Then I'm not sure how your post is relevant. What DayZ spinoffs are charging for anything?

Gee, I don't know.

Besides, I'm not accusing any DayZ mods of charging, I'm saying that I don't care who makes what kinda mod for DayZ as long as it's free.

[Frankenstein's Monster 11]

Even if a mod "makes him look bad" I would say you take the good with the bad. Why lock down a project that was built from modding, would seem somewhat arrogant to do this to the mod (standalone is his choice, even there I would love to see modding eventually even if it has to wait awhile).

Yeah, because Warz apparently had no effect at all...Wait!

A factor in the delay is to distance their game from a competitor's recently released game.

Again this is a factor, and not the entire reason...but just another "pro" to delay release. There are other factors you can probably make an intelligent guess about. So, in the big picture, it is a good business decision to delay...remembering that a vast majority of potential SA players dont follow DayZ news, and aren't walking in circles waiting for release.

Oh dear.

I don't mind shitty mods but when it's a really really bad ripping-off, it's low. If Warz was considered as bad PR then this is no different and arguably worse.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Frankenstein's Monster

[Rage VG 4033]

I'm sure I read that BIS were happy for Rocket to develop the mod while he was on the payroll, imagine if it had taken another year or two to get where it is today because he had a regular 9-5 to deal with as well. I'd rather see a small bit of money going to loads of independent developers taking risks rather than a handful of established corporations churning out cookie cutter remakes.

That means that rocket wasn't relying solely on this mod for income. He already was working for BIS.

And yes, I do agree that the independent devs deserve the money and attention. However, I still do not feel it's right to charge players to play a mod of the game they already paid for. If they had a free mod of it for a game and then charged for a full-out game based on it (Again, just like DayZ), I think it's significantly more justifiable, as I'm actually paying for a product, not for the ability to play a part of a product I already own. If it's imperative that the dev requires money to continue working on the mod, they could just as easily ask for donations. Plenty of mods do that, and essentially it's the best of both worlds; I don't feel as though I'm being forced to pay to play on my own game, as I'm choosing to give to a developer because I like their work, and the dev still gets the same support he deserves.

Obviously this isn't going to apply to absolutely everyone and everything but that's just how I feel.

[Bribase 251]

Gee, I don't know.

Besides, I'm not accusing any DayZ mods of charging, I'm saying that I don't care who makes what kinda mod for DayZ as long as it's free.

You're confusing mods and spinoffs with ripoffs.

[-Gews- 7443]

It seems kinda "cheap" to me! Using the DayZ name while saying "nothing to do with Rocket's DayZ" and making people pay for it.

It's just not cricket.

[Rage VG 4033]

You're confusing mods and spinoffs with ripoffs.

It was just an example; in the end, it's just a modification of DayZ and I don't feel I should pay any more money than I already have. You are right though, WarZ isn't "officially" affiliated with DayZ.

My other point still stands, however.

[Maxgor 2314]

It was just an example; in the end, it's just a modification of DayZ and I don't feel I should pay any more money than I already have. You are right though, WarZ isn't "officially" affiliated with DayZ.

My other point still stands, however.

*EDIT*

Read that abit wrong as I thought you were claiming connection to WarZ and claiming it was a mod.

I do agree that a mod should never cost money. Especially when the groundwork isn't based on anything they made. People doing their own takes on DayZ is really cool, but there's only one way to profit off DayZ and that is what Rocket is doing now, professionally making the standalone release under the BIS name.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Maxgor

[SmashT 10907]

Here is another article from PC gamer btw - What Dean Hall thinks about DayZ Origins.

http://www.eurogamer...d-he-didnt-make

Also a post on Reddit;

Really love some of the ideas in the mod, and the execution is great.

But the naming is perhaps quite unfortunate. I actually had plans to use DayZ Origins in a project coming soon, can't do that now no matter how many lawyers were thrown at it :)

EDIT: Although I must confirm, I have not played the mod at all. I just looked at the website.

http://www.reddit.co...517fd?context=3 Edited January 29, 2013 by smasht_AU

[shinkicker 59]

I suppose I can comment here as I am the author of 2017.

I got started first off by being a HUGE fan.

DayZ was the game that I had been waiting for years to come along. Ever since I was a kid I would get up inside my head and imagine how I would fair when the dead walk and society goes to shit. I never forget the effect it had on me when I first played (as I am sure it did for everyone). I sucked at first of course and died 30 times, until I managed to crawl on my belly all the way into the supermarket at Electro and then sprinted back out to the forest again with some sodas, beans and a compass (which I had no clue how to use being a typical city boy). I had a humungous adrenaline dump when reaching safety and had to get up and pace around the room saying ‘f**k’ over and over again. You all know, we’ve all been there.

After playing for a few weeks I got curious about Arma’s scripting language and the nuts and bolts that held the mod together. I needed to have surgery on my nose which meant two weeks off work. So I decided to do a map port. I got in touch with the guy who developed Celle (mondkalb) and asked if I could go for it and he said yes. My plan was never to release and maybe just run a server or two, but the German DayZ clans (16k of them) went nuts when they saw the youtube videos and so it was released.

After this I noted that there was a lot happening now with all the private server builds, mods, scripts tweaks etc and no real home for everyone outside of here which was for the offical mod. I set up opendayz with pwnoz0r and beowolfschaefer. The idea here was that rather than have a private hosting company be the central place for maps, mods and so forth, we make a non-profit thing where it’s open to anyone to use and learn about how to mod / code / model / run a server etc. It just seemed wrong that something which rocket developed freely might be overtaken by commercial entities (this was before SA was announced). That site is now pretty big with 50k of unique hits a month.

From there I felt like trying one more project before standalone came out. So I started 2017. The thing with 2017 was I wanted to do a back to basics hardcore survival port (whether or not that was achieved is up for debate of course). I felt that other mods / servers seemed to becoming more like Arma 2 then what the mod was originally about. This is obviously always an area of contention as there are the two schools now it seems. You have the PvP players and Survivalists, but the survivalists seemed to be missing out. I always loved the scarcity factor of DayZ and the different dynamics of play that brought out in people. I also wanted to revamp the way things looked which is where the five years (now four) later came about.

One thing about 2017 is people call it a mod of a mod (modception), or a different mod. I don’t really look at it like that, for me it’s more of a remix or my own take on things. Its still largely Rockets mod in there.

As to where I will go when SA comes out, I am really not too sure. I am happy to align with the wants and needs of the main devs and BI whose baby this is. Me and Matt have had a good few chats on skype where I have said that if there are any concepts or ideas that come from 2017 and would be of use to SA, then they should take them without hesitation. It really is the least of token gestures I could make for them allowing me to tweak it and express myself.

I know for sure if I ever stop enjoying myself I will call it day. The DayZ community as it is now is really full of some gems, but it’s also full of such nonsense as well (the ongoing tavianna dramas and pay to play merchants). It can feel like a thankless task, especially when someone slags off what you do online. Players can also get quite demanding too as if you do this as a paid service.

I have no horse in this race for when it comes to cash or recognition. I am just a regular bloke. I come home from work, play with my 3 year old, talk to my wife about whatever is going on and then at 8pm when the nipper is in bed and my wife is watching soaps, I boot up my gaming PC and work on coding and modeling (currently a fallout type inventory weight system and mad max style tractors). I have never made a penny from this (in fact I am likely down by about 800 dollars), but that is fine.

This for me is a hobby and nothing more and I am grateful to have been a part of it.

- shinkicker

Edited January 29, 2013 by shinshady

[Frankenstein's Monster 11]

EDIT: Although I must confirm, I have not played the mod at all. I just looked at the website.

:facepalm:

Sometimes it's better to lie or even better, just don't say it.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Frankenstein's Monster

[SmashT 10907]

Sometimes it's better to lie or even better, just don't say it.

LOL, he only added it because someone pushed him on it.

My words at the start are a poor choice, I should have said "appears" in there somewhere. I just haven't had the time to play DayzMod or any derivatives lately - so I can only go based on what I've read/seen. It's not the direction I'd go, but that's fine because I have my own project going in the direction I want :)

Edited January 29, 2013 by smasht_AU

[Frankenstein's Monster 11]

LOL, he only added it because someone pushed him on it.

Great, the guy leading the development team is indecisive and insecure about his own decisions/words .

I just don't know how he became a solider or something. I may not be solider but I've experienced the recruitment process first hand and if you don't have balls or girth, you wouldn't be trusted.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Frankenstein's Monster

[aussiestig 681]

Dean suggested this mod to one of his twitter followers on his twitter account, so he's obviously for it.