Make it harder to kill both zombies and players

[hogscraper 328]

Zombies are a joke. After I find a hatchet, it doesn't matter if every zombie in Cherno comes after me. A bush, a tree or a wall with a hole at the bottom is all I need to survive. Zombies need a massive increase in AI, pathing, health or all of the above if they are ever going to be a threat to anyone but noobs fresh off the coast. This should be step one in making the game more exciting.

Step two is removing every weapon in the game with an effective range over 200-300m. I don't care if it has a scope or not, being able to kill with little to no risk to yourself has ruined this game for most people who aren't assholes and many more who have just given up. Most of the people sniping aren't even the assholes. They're just reacting to a situation that they have no control over. Everything else they could be doing is superseded with find a sniper rifle, kill everyone else on sight or be killed yourself. Survival is a moot point now that the number of people with snipers has gotten out of hand.

The problem here is once it starts, there is ZERO reason to do anything else unless you really want to die and lose what you have found. Lets be honest here, most people coming to these forums aren't just noobs trying to get by so I want to ask, how many of you have snipers or make it a priority to find one when you don't? Every one of us that knows what's good for them, usually. Its a downward spiraling trend that takes every single other fun thing in this game and makes it irrelevant. Most people don't need to go into cities after they gear up and don't even do it when they need to because you rarely die to a foe you can see in this game. I would like to see every weapon in this game with an effective range over a couple hundred meters removed entirely. Besides being a coward or a dick or trying to protect yourself from those types, what purpose do they serve except to make everything else you could be doing less fun?

I was in a fire fight in Electro a long ass time ago that raged on forever. At least long enough that those of us that died respawned, ran back and were going after each other with hatchets. I haven't come close to that level of excitement in a long time. Since then I've watched this game get more and more boring as people do less and less outside of hiding and sniping people. Servers with an over-abundance of sniper rifles get less and less populated over time for the most part except for the few where these types of players congregate. Look at how many people cry on these and other forums because they give players all the guns and cars they could ever want but no one bothers to keep showing up because the game boils down to that one thing.

Do I think I'll ever convince a coward to man up and come get me? Never. A guy who's ever sucker punched someone doesn't magically gain the ability to man up and fight someone unless they are made to. Do I think that if enough people make their complaints known that it might affect a change in this game? Maybe.

[tacticaljim 28]

Read the forums, reddit, etc... Its going to addressed in the SA. :D

[thefirecrack3r 6]

Snipers should just become effected by bullet drop and wind. Making them hard to use. Thats really all that needs to happen since marksman rifles wouldn't be uncommon (especially not hunting rifles).

[Bribase 251]

Snipers should just become effected by bullet drop and wind. Making them hard to use. Thats really all that needs to happen since marksman rifles wouldn't be uncommon (especially not hunting rifles).

Um... Are you aware that they are already subject to bullet drop? That's what the need to zero your rifle is for. Wind effects I'm all for though as long there is an elegant way of measuring it's direction and speed.

[Testwd3r235 2810]

Zombies need a strength boost but players amount of hits is perfect.

[Wep0n 532]

Arent they already affected by bullet drop? or is my understanding of "a bullet which hits lower the further it flies" just completly false? but i'm not so sure about the wind... and yes, i am pretty sure they will make sniper rifles harder to use... it's all in the forums if you check it out.....

[thefirecrack3r 6]

Um... Are you aware that they are already subject to bullet drop? That's what the need to zero your rifle is for. Wind effects I'm all for though as long there is an elegant way of measuring it's direction and speed.

I haven't played the mod, I'm just in love with the idea for this game and I'm waiting for SA. I watch a lot of gameplay of the game and I've never noticed bullet drop. But a more difficult sniping process would keep the asshats who live on top of hills shooting people from being super effective.

[Wep0n 532]

i seriously recommend looking at this thread:

http://dayzmod.com/f...-an-arma-2-mod/

most of the stuff suggested in this topic are already existent there, and much more.

90% of the good suggestions are there. it is a compilation of all epic things i personally wanna see in the future in standalone.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Wep0n

[colekern 1364]

I haven't played the mod, I'm just in love with the idea for this game and I'm waiting for SA. I watch a lot of gameplay of the game and I've never noticed bullet drop. But a more difficult sniping process would keep the asshats who live on top of hills shooting people from being super effective.

All of the bullets drop, from any gun. there's a feature called "zeroing" with snipers and certain assault rifles that allows you to adjust your weapons scope for what range you're at.

[Krisz2 0]

I haven't played the mod, I'm just in love with the idea for this game and I'm waiting for SA. I watch a lot of gameplay of the game and I've never noticed bullet drop. But a more difficult sniping process would keep the asshats who live on top of hills shooting people from being super effective.

A more difficult process would only stop sniper returning fire, the guy camping on a hill would not be effected by this.

If Rocket doesn't want snipers i the game he should just remove them, I hate it when game companies assign how people should play the game I like dayz because it allows people to play how they want to play with genuine realism that is what it is. If there was a zombie apocalypse in real life wouldn't a sniper on a hill be able to kill a silly person running in a field fairly easily?

My view on snipers is if your running through fields that are overlooked by hills you are doing it wrong.

[-Gews- 7443]

Step two is removing every weapon in the game with an effective range over 200-300m.

So basically MP5s for everyone?

[hogscraper 328]

'Genuine realism' is that that very few of the best trained people on the planet can effectively shoot a sniper rifle at long ranges.

Total people in the US Army ~1,000,000

Snipers in the US Army ~1,000

Total people in the US Marines ~250,000

Snipers in the Marines ~300

That's not guns, that's people trained and qualified to shoot a sniper rifle at the ranges the guns in Dayz are capable of. The 'genuine realism' you speak of would be 1 out of 1,000 players being able to ever get the chance at picking one up and firing it accurately. The real problem is, with multiple servers spawning them, at some point in the game, you still will reach the end result of everyone who wants a sniper rifle having one unless you hard cap the total number of them by percentage of people playing.

Krisz2 also so wisely says, "I hate it when game companies assign how people should play the game I like dayz because it allows people to play how they want to play with genuine realism that is what it is"

That's what I feel like being forced to play a game where zero of my deaths have come from a firearm that was not a sniper rifle.

'Realism', genuine or not, is not that any average person who picks up a m107 has even so much as a chance in hell at hitting a human sized target even at 250 meters.

A decade ago I trained people at a local range in rifle accuracy for hunting and the average person with no training that came to me still couldn't hit a deer sized target, using an AR15, with any amount of consistency, even at 50 meters. If you've been hunting most of your life you could hit that target at 100-200 meters but not every bullet will hit it every time and personally 250-300 meters is about the max I will bother shooting. I can hit a deer from that far with a 30.06 but not every time in a lethal spot and I've been shooting guns since I was six years old. My rounds also have an estimated effective range of about 1,000 meters.

I get that most people playing this game don't want realism. They throw that around as an excuse to cover up wanting to take the easy way out. Sniping is the easiest way of killing and most people don't want to lose their gear so they flock to it. I've played on a private hive that had zero sniper rifles and the gun battles I had there were epic. So much more fun having a chance to defend yourself and actually having to think instead of shoot everything that moves with little risk to yourself that Dayz has become.

[shadowjack 254]

I haven't played the mod, I'm just in love with the idea for this game and I'm waiting for SA. I watch a lot of gameplay of the game and I've never noticed bullet drop. But a more difficult sniping process would keep the asshats who live on top of hills shooting people from being super effective.

Sniping isn't the problem. The problem is laziness on the part of players not wiling to do what needs to be done to counter snipers. Might I suggest recon and/or evasive maneuvers?

That said, in my oppinon the mod is overrun with high end weapons.

The real problem is, with multiple servers spawning them, at some point in the game, you still will reach the end result of everyone who wants a sniper rifle having one unless you hard cap the total number of them by percentage of people playing.

A cap of some kind or/and i would favor removal of players stash upon death. That would help keep inventory saturation down on all items.

Edited January 25, 2013 by ShadowJack

[aksuduud 64]

'Genuine realism' is that that very few of the best trained people on the planet can effectively shoot a sniper rifle at long ranges.

Total people in the US Army ~1,000,000

Snipers in the US Army ~1,000

Total people in the US Marines ~250,000

Snipers in the Marines ~300

Implying hard that only US snipers can shoot.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Snipers should just become effected by bullet drop and wind. Making them hard to use. Thats really all that needs to happen since marksman rifles wouldn't be uncommon (especially not hunting rifles).

Um... Are you aware that they are already subject to bullet drop? That's what the need to zero your rifle is for. Wind effects I'm all for though as long there is an elegant way of measuring it's direction and speed.

Not if you use a sniper rifle for purposes it wasn't meant for...cbq action ( i mean under 300m zoom out crosshairs sniping literally ), then you won't really be affected so much that you have to compensate for bullet drop especially if you only use a M107 or AS50. Even 800m is really difficult for a trained sniper... We are still missing quite a few factors for long range shooting which would not be difficult to add but would also reduce the amount of wannabe snipers.

[hogscraper 328]

Implying hard that only US snipers can shoot.

That list is showing just how few people in the US armed forces are capable of shooting sniper rifles effectively enough to earn the name sniper. What are you going on about? If you're going to troll, at least make sense.

And to Enforcer, I would prefer a hard cap based on percentage of total players instead of removal of stashes. If you got rid of stashes you would have to add in instant-removal of corpse and gear as well. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense considering you can get a ride back to your corpse that gets you re-equipped just as fast as heading to a tent somewhere with more gear in it.

[TIC 1050]

Zombies are going to have an advanced pathing over the Standalone which means they would be able to go in their own way of moving instead of following directly behind you at all times.. Along with that, they'll be more intimidating by their sound and looks.. They'll also be able to run indoors :)

Removing weapons that are used to kill survivors/zombies should not be altered. It's suppose to be placed in a realistic setting for a zombie apocalypse; look at the factors of hunger and thirst for those examples.. Taking that away would take the name 'DayZ' off of DayZ.

Here's how it comes down to it as a domino effect.

Removing Weapons(With effective 200-300M shot) >>> No Snipers >>> Possibly a 20-40% chance of less banditry/survival attempts >>> Less navigation

In conclusion; you might have had a bad time with people sniping you around? The way to avoid this is not to attract so much attention like sprinting around the fields and such. I'm not putting you down, I'm telling you from my experience. Another good way is to know where snipers usually gather around and always keep on an alert. Right now the architecture is bad like being able to see people at a further range better than close.

:beans:

Edited January 26, 2013 by TIC321

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Implying hard that only US snipers can shoot.

Very true what about back hill boys last I checked I could wing a human size metal plate @ 1,000 meters with a 7.62x51mm and I'm not sniper qualified hung out on the course in benning learned a few things but never attended the school.

Add to the list worldwide snipers and gun nuts

Edited January 26, 2013 by Steak and Potatoes

[aksuduud 64]

That list is showing just how few people in the US armed forces are capable of shooting sniper rifles effectively enough to earn the name sniper. What are you going on about? If you're going to troll, at least make sense.

And to Enforcer, I would prefer a hard cap based on percentage of total players instead of removal of stashes. If you got rid of stashes you would have to add in instant-removal of corpse and gear as well. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense considering you can get a ride back to your corpse that gets you re-equipped just as fast as heading to a tent somewhere with more gear in it.

Chernarus seems like the kind of place to have conscription, this means virtually every adult male can handle an assault rifle and know the basics of shooting people, i dont think the jump of going from AR to sniper or marksman rifle is that big, and besides keep in mind that this is not a role-play, the skills of the character come from the player.. And keep in mind that the military wouldnt train everyone to be a sniper even if everyone was a crack shot, they have no need for a million snipers.

[enforcer1975 1111]

I don't think anyone who knows how to handle an AK or AR at 200m can just take a scoped rifle without proper training and shoot the same at 500m and more...

+ add excitement...you can be the best shot in any gun or sniper school. When the bullets start flying it's only a matter of having balls or not if you hit or miss. Which is well implemented in the game when the bullets hit your surroundings ( character breathing heavy and shaking )

Edited January 26, 2013 by Enforcer

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The way i see it, the loot tables need to take in account the total amount of equipment in circulation for each weapons and ammo types. A player is NEVER going to pick up a weapon that is inferior to the one they are using, it doesn't matter if snipers spawn only 0.001% of the time because players won't pick a weapon inferior to the one they are using.

What need to happen is that the spawn rate need to take in account how many sniper rifle rounds (for example) are in circulation.

If the number is higher than the expected percentage, stop spawning sniper rifle rounds, at all, until the number drop back down, which will eventually happen once some players run out of ammunitions.

If you leave it all solely to the random number generator it doesn't change anything because, as i said players do not settle for second best.

[machineabuse 31]

The problem is not so much the long range capability than it is the disparity between the cost/benefit of spending those bullets on players vs spending them on infected.

The player behavior you see in DayZ is the result of the fact at any one time the average player will elect to carry the best weapon they can find with as much ammunition as they can carry. More often than not OAL rarity of the ammunition is what is going to drive them to use those rounds on other players, because other players are the greater (potential) threat, tend to have loot to take and there is really no reason not to. I know I've never seen a guy shoot infected with a 50.

That and the fact that there are no systems in DayZ that makes taking a player's virtual life any more than a trivial decision.

[Rekli 995]

remove every gun with a range of over 200 meters...THATS EVERY GUN YOU ASS! you can shoot a pistol that far

[Snilex 40]

Jesus christ, people who get owned by Snipers and think they should be removed are people that needs to be removed. Yeah sure, I hate snipers too but that doesn't make it legit that the devs should remove Snipers because I get owned by them.

I got killed by a Zombie ones, REMOVE THEM!!

The sniper issue will be better in SA since snipers wont be able to know if there is a person in a town by looking for Zombies so that issue is corrected. I think they should keep sniper rifles, they are excellent for dropping a friend of at some place and have that person be a look out futher away. I don't know how many Zombies my friend have cleared for me while I loot around, but many. And other people use them to kill other players, yeah that's one of the aspect in this game, why should they remove it just because you think they you should walk around without risking anything?

Snipers, Bandits, Zombies, they are a great thing in the game that gives this game abit of a thrill.

Me and my friend have most weapons in our camp, everythink from AK's to Snipers. But we are also scavangers, we mostly run around looting things, killing zombies. So an M240, FN FAL, Shotgun, or a Sniper is not ideal. they either make to much noise or they are worthless in close encounters. My friend tend to be dumb enough to take a Sniper with him most of them time, but rarly uses it. I always use an M4 assault rifles with or without silencer depending on or stock of mags. It's a great gun, 2 shots and Zombies are down, they don't make alot of sound which keeps the zombie aggro minimal. If we are going to interact with other players we don't know, I mostly pick the MK 48 or a FN FAL depending on the mood I'm in, MK 48 mod 0 is awesome to make another player afraid, the FN FAL is I'd say the best rifle to take care of another player in a close combat.

But that's just me, I don't kill anyone on sight, there is no pleasure in it. Unless it is a bandit, that's a pleasure to kill. :)

Edited January 26, 2013 by Snilex

[Jars (DayZ) 63]

The problem is not so much the long range capability than it is the disparity between the cost/benefit of spending those bullets on players vs spending them on infected.

The player behavior you see in DayZ is the result of the fact at any one time the average player will elect to carry the best weapon they can find with as much ammunition as they can carry. More often than not OAL rarity of the ammunition is what is going to drive them to use those rounds on other players, because other players are the greater (potential) threat, tend to have loot to take and there is really no reason not to. I know I've never seen a guy shoot infected with a 50.

That and the fact that there are no systems in DayZ that makes taking a player's virtual life any more than a trivial decision.

This guy is right .

There is no good reason not to shoot people .

But it isn't the guns that are the problem , it's the games other "problems" which make sniping easy . These being , third person mode ( pretty , but ridiculous ) , peripheral dots ( just plain ridiculous ) crosshairs ( make the sniper rifles more powerful at close range ) and the unfortunately necessary mechanic of zombies only spawning within 200 meters of players .

If these "problems" are solved , and it becomes a matter of actually getting eyes on a target before you know they are there , then sniping will be much harder than it is now .