Skill System in DayZ?

[GodOfGrain 191]

Dont give a skill system with perks. But I wouldnt mind a more involved skill system involving you using your actual experience to do stuff. Need to pick a lock on a door? You dont just click "pick lock". You "pick lock" and then have to manually pick the damn lock. You wanna "break down the door"? Then break out the axe or shoot the lock several times. You want to get some wood from a tree? You have to chop the damn tree down yourself.

[...]

In a perfect game it would be like this. But that just won't happen.

It would take too much effort to simulate all these activities.

The solution game industry is taking: mini games.

Aka Deus Ex: Human Revolution; This hacking stuff. Terrible...

What a waste of time and argh no. Noone can argue for minigames and say at the same time

that skill system wouldn't fit to DayZ.

[GodOfGrain 191]

You won't be running back to collect your gear from your rotting corpse in the SA once the full disease mechanic is introduced, especially if it was a disease/infection/virus that killed you. Neither will your friends unless they are tooled up with the correct antibiotics. Being a healthy player with gear will indeed have you rage quitting when you die.

I don't know where people get this thought from, that's not logical.

As you died yourself you have had the best information whether you had an infection or not.

Lets say 90%-95% of the times you did not have one. You go back and get your gear, or your teammates stash them.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

Exactly. It is you as the player that gains the skills needed. It doesn't need a game mechanic that would encourage grinding. If you want to be a good sniper, grab yourself a rifle and go practice. Want to be a medic, go get yourself loads of meds and then set yourself up with whatever you need, it's not easy. No need for a game mechanic, we just need a deeply layered game filled with content that rewards us (not literally) when we take the time to learn a certain aspect of it well, navigation is a good example.

Well in place of some opposing views, i see your point, as you maybe feel your game experience geting "watered-down". And as far as i've seen posts up to now, there's no talking about a heavy influence on the game at all. The basic tenor was much more a subtle effect contributing to a more lasting experience.

To your example beeing the medic: Ok so you get all sorts of medical supplies, but at some point what is your driving point in this direction? As far as i've seen there is not really an interest of people in the community beeing such. So these would be small stimuli to get you going into an other direction.

Sure now you can argue, well you don't need that sort of stimuli, 'cause if you want to you can do whatever you want. But i question, what is the charm in doing so right now, besides in doing so to prove someone wrong. What is driving you besides that.

As a summary:

- "skills" mustn't be a game-changer

- should be subtle embedded

- should set small stimuli

- should enrich the experience for those whose interest is aroused

- should not "handicap" ppl which ignore this game experience

[m00tley 50]

After reading the whole thread i feel like 90% of the guys here didn't even read the OP, which is completely stupid. There was someone talking about PvP on the first page and i found it hilarious the concept of "People who play PvP won't like it". Well, i think that people who play DayZ for PvP, should go play BF3 (I'm not criticizing the game, i really like BF3), since BF3 is a competitive game. If you can't handle playing BF3, deal with it, go play fucking Hello Kitty, cause we don't need a fuckin TDM on DayZ.

ATM DayZ is like Noshahr Canals, with some zombies and Food/Drink system. No one cares about dying, no one cares about progression, no one cares about shit besides being "the most badass motherfucker on ther fucking game".

DayZ is not about PvP! DayZ is a Post-zombie-apocalypse simulator, and is described by rocket himself as a social experience, right? Well, i ask you where is the "social experience" part at the current state of the mod? There's no social experience, because no one cares about life or death. If you die, u aren't losing anything, u can just go back to your corpse and get your gear back. Do you call that player-skill? I call that 30 minutes of reading a guide about how using a compass or map on google. Is that fun? Hell yeah, it is! If you die, will you forget about how to do it? Nope. So, if you aren't losing anything by dying except 15 minutes of your life, why would you be afraid of dying?

I see people talking about how they want the game to be realistic. Well, guess what? In real life, you can't be an awesome doctor, awesome helicopter pilot, awesome driver, awesome shooter, awesome butcher, awesome everything! Then why would you want to be all of that in a game that you said you wanted to be realistic? Because you can't trust other people and you want to be a lone wolf? Well, i'm really sry if i'm not 14 years old and don't like the "lone wolf" concept anymore.

A skill system like the one the OP described would be great and it would force people to interact. Do you need a medic on your group? Well, maybe the guy you just killed 5 minutes ago was a doctor, you didn't take your time to ask him, so now your friend is gonna die. Karma is a bitch, both IRL and In game. Do you need a lock picker? A butcher? A mechanic? why don't you ask the guy crossing the street instead of just killing him? That would create a real mechanic on the game.

i.e.: I need someone to fix my car, and i noticed that the guy that was crossing the street had some tools with him, therefore making me assume he is a mechanic. Should i kill him and not be able to fix my car, should i try to talk to him, expose myself and get shot or should i try to make him drop his weapon and make him a hostage till he fix my car? I decide to make him a hostage, and while we are walking back to my car, he is planning some way to get the hell out of there, because he thinks that after he fix my car, i'm gonna kill him. He is interested on the car, so he let me walk him all the way to the car and start fixing it, waiting for the right moment to strike me with his crowbar. I get distracted, he kills me, fix the car and get the hell out of there.

Now, that is some social experience.

I think the skill system could contribute to the gameplay, and the ideas of the OP need some improvement, but the concept is great.

PS: There's another way to make things like that, which are mini-games. Using things like mini-games to fix a car, cut an animal, open a door, treat someone who is injured would give players the freedom to only master the things they think are necessary for them, so in my group someone would be awesome at car fixing minigames, another person would specialize at the lock-pick minigames and another one could learn the Medical minigames, so if you are really terrible at fixing a car, you should find someone who can do it, and maybe become friends with this person (Or just kill the poor bastard after your car is fixed).

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

Skills in DayZ should be the ones which you use in game and learn in game (Unless you know how to read maps already etc) No complex method will be needed or required.

You are surviving in a hostile environment, use what you already have, that is the challenge.

[GodOfGrain 191]

Thank you all for your replies so far.

I want to invite you to have a 2nd look at my first post.

It was just edited quite a bit to further elaborate my idea.

(and perhaps I managed to shorten it by a couple of lines, not sure ^^)

[dallas 5195]

My main point is that this is partly an attempt to change DayZ, because you dislike that other people can affect your well being and set your progression back by hours, but this is exactly what makes DayZ is a great experiment. The combination of coop and competitive players, the reckless and the cautious in the same game mode, who shares or competes for the resources of the game, either for basic survival or dominance.

I think it's goes against DayZ's unforgiiving and hostile nature, It also goes against ArmA's concept of applying actual personal skills instead of relying of artificial bonuses. This lack of traditional leveling, means that people selected their own end goal. For some it is watching the world burn, others just want to make due and others again attempt to restore a little hope in a desperate and cruel world.

While I'm looking forward to the environment becoming a real antagonist to force people to really put an effort into simply surviving, I really don't want to discourage those who prefer greater risk and rewards over their own security. DayZ simply isn't that kind of RPG.

[m00tley 50]

I doubt u even read something... You say that we don't want people affecting our well being and set our progression back? I don't care if i get killed on this game, all i need to do is run 15 minutes... I would love to have something REALLY affecting my progression (And other people progressions aswell.). Did you ever play Diablo 3 on Hardcore? Gotta tell you is WAAAY harder than DayZ. Why? Because you really put some effort in your character, and if he dies, that's it, you are done, there's no 15 minutes running back, no friend watching over your body, you just lost EVERYTHING.

You can tell me that Diablo 3 is a different game, but the concept of Hardcore Diablo and DayZ is the same, except the fact that if you die on DayZ, is just a minor annoyance, and if you die o Diablo 3 hardcore, you won't be playing it for like 2 days at least (Untill you calm down). I remember i used to have a monk on normal, and i used to die really often (Inferno), then i made a Barbarian on hardcore and when i got to lvl 45 i guess, i had more adrenaline than i ever had playing my Monk.

The skill system would add some real loss to the table, it would make you shit your pants everytime u heard a gun firing, it would make you fight for survival more than ever, cause you wouldn't want to lose the character that you invested so much time playing. You guys want some realism? There it is.

As i said before, at this moment, dayz is a giant TDM, and there's no hardcore feeling involved in the game, everything is just 15 minutes away from death.

PS: You guys really should read more than 2 sentences before making comments.

Edited January 17, 2013 by m00tley

[victusmortuus 1074]

I'm thankful the mods and devs don't agree with these casual ideas.

[dallas 5195]

I got the gist of it. Half you post was about DayZ not being PvP, forcing people to interact, about people can go play BF3 instead. Kitty killy la la land, Diablo 3 for IRL badasses. I think get it, you want to make it Skyrim, where people are making 10.000 horseshoes to become master blacksmith or logging in 17 hours a day building stamina by closing and opening a door and think this awesome 5% stamina bonus will prevent some player from killing you and stealing your car.

[victusmortuus 1074]

You won't be running back to collect your gear from your rotting corpse in the SA once the full disease mechanic is introduced, especially if it was a disease/infection/virus that killed you. Neither will your friends unless they are tooled up with the correct antibiotics. Being a healthy player with gear will indeed have you rage quitting when you die.

Is this legit information? I hope so it sounds sick!.

[attorney1977 311]

... will indeed have you rage quitting when you die.

Hey! That's my standard MO.

[dragonkatol 135]

I've read it over and over again and i honestly think that it is a good Skill system that is both hardcore and authentic at the same time. But what i am pointing out is that it doesn't belong to DayZ. It's gamey and i don't like the whole idea of adding minuscule integers that will make your character a tiny bit stronger than a bambi. if it's not that game-changing and it doesn't effect you that much then why would you be attached to it? That's why when you see the recent developments and Q&A's by rocket, The devs are focusing alot of their time on the Inventory, Items and Equipment. So, you would be devastated when you lost an awesome parka and that AK you've recently fixed by being careless bambi.

[GodOfGrain 191]

I've read it over and over again and i honestly think that it is a good Skill system that is both hardcore and authentic at the same time. But what i am pointing out is that it doesn't belong to DayZ. It's gamey and i don't like the whole idea of adding minuscule integers that will make your character a tiny bit stronger than a bambi. if it's not that game-changing and it doesn't effect you that much then why would you be attached to it? That's why when you see the recent developments and Q&A's by rocket, The devs are focusing alot of their time on the Inventory, Items and Equipment. So, you would be devastated when you lost an awesome parka and that AK you've recently fixed by being careless bambi.

There is some truth in it that such a system has something of the word "gamey".

Although this can be limited to a large degree, as joe_mcentire has put it:

As a summary:

- "skills" mustn't be a game-changer

- should be subtle embedded

- should set small stimuli

- should enrich the experience for those whose interest is aroused

- should not "handicap" ppl which ignore this game experience

My belief is, we don't need a skill system for the sake of it, but so solve a serious problem:

No value of one's own life. (Which is central for immersion in my pov and has distinct implications

for the amount of PvP which is going on)

In the example you have put up: Bambi kills me, one of my 4 colleagues kills the bambi and collect my stuff.

Underground bases will introduce even better possibilities to hoard weapons, which will increase this problem.

Edited January 19, 2013 by GodOfGrain

[m00tley 50]

I'm thankful the mods and devs don't agree with these casual ideas.

Not even gonna waste my time answering that shit. You didn't read anything, so don't comment, OK? The idea of the skill system is getting rid o casual players, so read that shit or shut up.

I got the gist of it. Half you post was about DayZ not being PvP, forcing people to interact, about people can go play BF3 instead. Kitty killy la la land, Diablo 3 for IRL badasses. I think get it, you want to make it Skyrim, where people are making 10.000 horseshoes to become master blacksmith or logging in 17 hours a day building stamina by closing and opening a door and think this awesome 5% stamina bonus will prevent some player from killing you and stealing your car.

If u really had read that shit, you would get the idea, unfortunately, looks like your laziness doesn't let you read anything longer than 1 sentence. BTW, this "make 10.000" horse shoes is called Grind, in case you don't know. If you had any acknowledge about online gaming you would be able to understand the difference between a level based game (WoW) and skill based games (Ultima), and understand the difference between a grindfest and the idea that the OP is purposing.

[GodOfGrain 191]

I got the gist of it. Half you post was about DayZ not being PvP, forcing people to interact, about people can go play BF3 instead. Kitty killy la la land, Diablo 3 for IRL badasses. I think get it, you want to make it Skyrim, where people are making 10.000 horseshoes to become master blacksmith or logging in 17 hours a day building stamina by closing and opening a door and think this awesome 5% stamina bonus will prevent some player from killing you and stealing your car.

I have no fucking problem if someone wants to jog around Green mountain the whole evening.

Let him get his points for that :) It doesn't affect me... I can kill him as easily as before.

Furthermore, in the proper framework it could be made hard to "train" skills.

If running and other actions like chopping wood require more food / water in a scarce world,

it would be unwise to do it. Quite sure most parts could be covered in this or other ways.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Is this legit information? I hope so it sounds sick!.

Yup, it's based on the pretty in depth disease mechanic being developed by Rockets brother (a virologist) that will hopefully be introduced into the SA at some point in development. Should shake things up a bit :).

Just being a decent medic will be a skill in itself, and what's more, we won't need the game to tell us we're good medics by giving us points or makng us able to administer drugs 0.057% quicker for every patient we heal ;)

Check here for info: http://dayzmod.com/f...seases-in-dayz/

Edited January 17, 2013 by Fraggle

[dragonkatol 135]

I have no fucking problem if someone wants to jog around Green mountain the whole evening.

Let him get his points for that :) It doesn't affect me... I can kill him as easily as before.

Furthermore, in the proper framework it could be made hard to "train" skills.

If running and other actions like chopping wood require more food / water in a scarce world,

it would be unwise to do it. Quite sure most parts could be covered in this or other ways.

That's what i am saying. If that's not going to be a factor in the gameplay why would you get more attached to it?

Why would i get more attached to my character when i will never noticed the 5% more stamina or 0.5 more faster to pick locks when i could be doing the same things even without paying attention to it?

[GodOfGrain 191]

That's what i am saying. If that's not going to be a factor in the gameplay why would you get more attached to it?

Why would i get more attached to my character when i will never noticed the 5% more stamina or 0.5 more faster to pick locks when i could be doing the same things even without paying attention to it?

Some examples, most of em mentioned already in the first post:

- Speed of chopping wood reduced from 3 mins to 1.5

- Applying blood bag: 15% chance of infection for patient vs 3%

- Reparing a car engine: 60 % success probability, otherwise engine destroyed. 10% chance that car gets further damaged

--> 95 % success probability, otherwise engine destroyed. 2% chance that car gets further damaged

- Reparing a heli engine: 30% success probability, otherwise engine destroyed. 40% chance that heli gets further damaged

--> 85 % success probability, otherwise engine destroyed. 5% chance that heli gets further damaged

- Stamina: Runs 5% faster. Not noticable indeed.

- Sprinting: Can sprint 13 secs insteed of 10. Could sprint 20% faster

- Carrying: Could carry 20% more weight

- Better chance to light a fire

- Better chances to light a fire while raining

and sooo on

The skills are effective as you see.

But as I said I wouldn't care if someone chops wood for hours,

because those skills don't make him harder to see, more difficult to hit or anything.

So when I encounter someone on the map it is the same situation as today.

Edited January 19, 2013 by GodOfGrain

[joe_mcentire 2073]

and that's the exact point, ppl who simply do not care shall live in peace and harmony, but if you do care, and i can imagine they are quite a lot, could gain so much more form the game. to me all "no no no" with hardly any counterarguments is kind of frustrating.

So unless you do not stalk someone for hours, who embraces these ideas and watch and study his/her behaviour you would not notice these mechanics, because it will not have an impact on your style of gaming. so what's the point?

I think GodofGrain makes quite some points which could someone lead to a rethinking process

"everyone should be the same" for example is an almost non-argument for me. go kill'em then they are back at the same level, no not even, you still got your ammo, weapons etc.

I myself think these topics "skills" and "how to value a dayz-live / death in dayz" are closely linked together

Edited January 17, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

@ m00tley - from your posts it seems you are mainly concerned with the 15minutes it takes to get back to your body, but there are a lot better solutions for that (eg, if you try to loot your own body, body disappears (hide) )

as per skills, although I understand why you would have them introduced, its simply not dayz, (do what you want when you want if only you can find the gear) - and it will also give some additional extra advantage to clans and groups

[Dayz Steve 26]

Oh Well I know a skill system can only enhance Dayz. Imagine to be able fix a heli you need to fix a bike, then a car, truck a plane first. Would make people work together to survive!

[joe_mcentire 2073]

well let's place a strategic link to this:

http://dayzmod.com/f...tem-revolution/

[bofs@bredband.net 0]

Deleted

Edited January 1, 2017 by bofs@bredband.net

[joe_mcentire 2073]

but would it be unfair?

everyone has the chance to gain skills. everyone! it's just a matter of game playing. you want to interpret it as shooter? go and kill as many and get shot yourself each and every time. so you start at zero, nothing wrong with that. It's almost like, play as i play it otherwise it's unfair.

besides, if one would read some of the suggestions made in this thread, you would see, it's not about becoming undying or kill with one shot, there were quite some interesting ideas to motivate interacting more with the environment and even, let's not say PVP but rather PwithP.

Dayz has one big advantage: You don't need virtual skills to achieve something and get excited about it. BUT "soft skills" could add a slightly different and special experience as they would motivate to do some things and acts.

Everyone plays by the same rules, it's just a matter of what you want to be.

Edited January 19, 2013 by joe_mcentire