Memory hacking in Standalone

[tsandrey 379]

3) Each new version of certain public hack goes undetected for weeks, sometimes months.

4) A certain BE dev lacks vision and motivation to innovate, and prefers to shut his eyes to the problem instead of appropriately scaling the efforts.

Weeks!? BE usually busts public hacks in 24 hours. Do you just randomly make your facts up or what?

Hate? Please. People are making private hacks for money. Quite a lot of money, in some cases. It's just business. Or are you talking about those retarded script kiddies? They'll whine no matter what.

That's exactly why they hate BE. They lose a lot of money ;)

Yeah, "you hack, your point must be invalid". Great way to ignore the problem. Kaspersky-style.

Hackers are stupid and they tend to lie and spread false information. Exactly what the guy in this thread is doing. How is that ignoring the problem?

Edited January 27, 2013 by TSAndrey

[Guest Dwarden]

i don't want to go into negative list so i cut it short, for now... (yet it's still wall of text)

1.

seems like lot of people naively thinks that VAC ban is somehow more effective than BE ban ...

it's false conclusion

global BE GUID ban based of CD-key from GameSpy (or if needed on STEAM account ID)

or

VAC ban of just that one game on STEAM account ID

in result it weights exactly the same (global ban on anti-cheat enabled server)

now let's look at creation of new STEAM account takes minute(s) at max

considering STEAM uses normal captcha for registration (CAPTCHA was broken and can be automated since like 2010)

so even less difference between now and then in terms of deterrent (minutes to get new account either way)

-----

2.

... now about memory read / edit and hooks and injections and so on ...

did anyone asked self question why all the big MP games are using 'another' anti-cheat like PB next to VAC ? :)

the main change in way how cheats looks for DayZ standalone vs DayZ mod is client-server model

yet this has nothing to do with VAC and thus linking this "improvement" to VAC effectiveness is misleading ...

which will enforce majority (if not all) of cheats to aim and target on the client

what gets even more popular are read-only (memory/net-code) like radar-hacks,ESPs, wall-hacks etc.

now some naively thinks that ESP,radar will vanish because of the server-client architecture, that's not true !

it will be limited e.g. within Your visual range where objects are reported to You but it will be enough to provide

unfair advantage in-time to determine outcome of encounter, which is primary problem for survival game with fatal death

+

also memory editing might appear in rare cases - with anything what could be tampered with (aiming? so aim-bots etc.)

...

these cheat types will thrive and appear en-mass (on rate dozen builds / week) and You will need to have very good anti-cheat to fight back

not just in terms of technology 'how to detect' them but also it's update rate (and BE does it well, see the actual state of cheat scene)

...

-----

3.

good news is absence of abusable script commands which were abused for client-server / client-server-client broadcast

that solves the headache for other players as they not anymore targets of script-kiddie prank scripts

and of-course depends on which of the client side scripting was removed from DayZ standalone

yet again this has nothing to do with VAC and thus linking this "improvement" to VAC effectiveness is misleading ...

note:

some naively thinks ESP is based off in-game scripting, then be warned it's wrong,

D3D/OpenGL based ESP overlays (just like FPS counters) exists for decade+ and are just read-only from game's memory

---

... in the end ... look at all the public and private cheats for all popular games and theirs history and guess who has the worst 'score' in detection / prevention ...

PS:

IMHO

for me BE outperforms now even PB in several key areas yet i agree that in some features and optional bonuses PB still excels

for me VAC is no replacement to either of them, it's just good bonus to have next to primary anti-cheat

if you want fight over my opinion then PROVE me wrong and show me in what way is X better than Y, cause i would like to know ;)

* note: you don't need waste Your breath over stuff like GameGuard, HackShield and similar cripple-ware (badly written anti-cheats / anti-macros)...

legend:

BE - BattlEye,

GUID - Globally Unique ID,

PB - PunkBuster,

VAC - Valve Anti-Cheat,

CAPTCHA - Completely Automated Public Turing test to Tell Computers and Humans,

D3D - Direct 3D,

IMHO - In My Honest Opinion

Edited January 27, 2013 by Dwarden

[OrLoK 16188]

Hello there

We all have to remember that once anyone hits the internet then they are suddenly expert on all things and can bring up false facts within a click or two.

I don't think that in recent times I have been on a gaming forum that does not blame their own anti cheat systems for all the ills in the world.

BE, to me, seems to do it's job well Not perfectly, but well.

The SA will change things to a degree but if the game is popular, and it most likely will be, then it's going to get hacked. Just not to the level we have seen in the mod.

Personally, it's down to a combination of utilites and admins to make life difficult to the prospective cheat. If you are a lazy admin and put your faith in one bit of proprietry software then you will become unstuck.

Rgds

LoK

[Guest Dwarden]

3) Each new version of certain public hack goes undetected for weeks, sometimes months.

4) A certain BE dev lacks vision and motivation to innovate, and prefers to shut his eyes to the problem instead of appropriately scaling the efforts.

re 3)

the only cheat which went undetected for weeks needed quite major update to BattlEye , in the end it was detected successfully

re 4)

quite big outrageous non-sense .... lack of vision? innovation? shut eye? scaling efforts?

... care to explain ?

Bastian, author of BattlEye works with us for years since ARMA 1,

the anti-cheat is constantly evolving, improving,

adding new features we asked for, community asked for and what was needed to keep up against cheats ...

so before You talk this way again, try back Your words with some proofs ...

Edited January 27, 2013 by Dwarden

[tsandrey 379]

VAC also never provides admins with necessary tools to combat hackers. BE and PB do

Edited July 21, 2013 by TSAndrey

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Dwarden should be highlighted somehow so we can recognize him as one of the BI developer.

Edited January 27, 2013 by St. Jimmy

[tsandrey 379]

Dwarden should be highlighted somehow so we can recognize him as one of the BI developer.

Both of them should. They deserve recognition and people could think they are fake accounts

[gummy52 57]

These people who are rampantly defending Battle Eye, like a bunch of white knights, are absolutely hysterical.

Nothing is wrong guys, everything is fine.

Hackers are stupid and they tend to lie and spread false information. Exactly what the guy in this thread is doing.

Yeah, I'm a dirty no good lying stinking cheater. That's why I made a thread that promotes awareness, and that's why you're trying to obfuscate it. Because I'm a bad guy and you're a good guy. It's like you're covering your ears and screaming "I'm not listening!".

Dwarden should be highlighted somehow so we can recognize him as one of the BI developer.

Okay, well then you can recognize this portion of his post.

now some naively thinks that ESP,radar will vanish because of the server-client architecture, that's not true !

it will be limited e.g. within Your visual range where objects are reported to You but it will be enough to provide

unfair advantage in-time to determine outcome of encounter, which is primary problem for survival game with fatal death

He just stated everything I've been trying to voice. Now would someone please give me one example where Battle Eye has caught and banned programs like this. http://i.imgur.com/lStol.png

Also, can we please stop pretending like the only hackers are those who download them off a website. Are you people seriously naive enough to believe that there are no educated people who like video games?

I wanted to know if Bohemia Interactive was going to do anything about programs that read the game's memory externally. If Dwarden is representative of BI, then that answer is clearly no, and they have lost my purchase. TSAndrey is likely thinking to himself "good riddance, we don't need cheaters like you". The irony is that I have lost interest in the game chiefly because I am not a cheater, I am a programmer, and I know how illegitimate the game play will be. I honestly wish I was still as ignorant as you are, so that I could enjoy this game; but I am not, and I could not.

Edited January 27, 2013 by gummy52

[sk- 25]

You people are freaking pathetic. There are secure applications out there all over the world run on billions of devices which very rarely if ever have their security compromised. The reason this is an issue with video games is very easy to understand at it's most basic level. In the video game industry it does not pay to have a secure game. Security in the gaming industry is directly correlated to the amount of money your game makes.

You are delusioned. Hah - Java is a perfect example of software that runs on Billions of devices and is totally fucked. We've had two 0days in less than 2 months that have been used in the wild for a LONG time. Or look at Android OS - totally fucked from a security perspective.

Name any website, server or client technology or application - anyone, and I'll point you to NUMEROUS exploits that can be leveraged to run code remotely. If you know anything about security, there is no silver bullet - it's about layers of defense and balancing useability VS security.

For example, want to protect your PC from network attacks, don't connect it to the internet. ........... but that's not REASONABLE. So you have to understand the risk of getting "on-line".

Anyways, hacking will always be a problem, but there are NUMEROUS things the SA can do to combat this.

A great example of hackers going "all the way" is the 2010 (IIRC) Blackhat talk about beating the Warden in WoW. These hackers basically built a hypervisor to hook *everything* in the OS. Pretty insane amount of work, but somebody will do it.

Securing anything is an arms race.

[nik21 287]

These people who are rampantly defending Battle Eye, like a bunch of white knights, are absolutely hysterical.

Nothing is wrong guys, everything is fine.

BE is doing it's best and I highly doubt anyone could do any better. But in fact, the circumstances for BE in Arma 2 could hardly be worse (Engine Architecture, CD-Key Theft...).

He just stated everything I've been trying to voice. Now would someone please give me one example where Battle Eye has caught and banned programs like this. http://i.imgur.com/lStol.png

Yeah. Navi. 'Nuff said.

I wanted to know if Bohemia Interactive was going to do anything about programs that read the game's memory externally.

Um... do you know any game or Anti-Cheat that prevents that? I don't.

Also the fact that you call yourself an "educated programmer" and say that you've been "hacking" for months tells pretty much. You are not hacking anything, you are simply reading the game's memory, that's cheating, nothing more.

Also, you can't expect BE or any other Anti-Cheat Software to catch something that is not available in public/ self-made. Private Hacks = Paid stuff, ! = self-made stuff...

Edited January 27, 2013 by Nik21

[gummy52 57]

Um... do you know any game or Anti-Cheat that prevents that? I don't.

Hackshield is one example.

Also, you can't expect BE or any other Anti-Cheat Software to catch something that is not available in public/ self-made.

Even VAC can do that.

that you've been "hacking" for months tells pretty much. You are not hacking anything

First of all, I've only been playing DayZ for months. Second of all, you're the one who turned this into a pissing contest. You've made it clear that you don't understand the topic you're trying to discuss and all you've done is uselessly make personal attacks against me. What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Also the fact that you call yourself an "educated programmer"

I don't believe I've said anything like that. What I have said, and the point I've been trying to make, is that there are people out there who don't simply download a hack off of a website. Banning public hacks is a bare minimum, not a testament to the strength of Battle Eye.

Edited January 27, 2013 by gummy52

[tsandrey 379]

Now would someone please give me one example where Battle Eye has caught and banned programs like this. http://i.imgur.com/lStol.png

AA (one of the most notorius cheating sites in general) discounted their DayZ ESP hack until standalone, cause of detections.

Even VAC can do that.

No, it can't. VAC is shit

I don't believe I've said anything like that. What I have said, and the point I've been trying to make, is that there are people out there who don't simply download a hack off of a website. Banning public hacks is a bare minimum, not a testament to the strength of Battle Eye.

Banning private/public hacks is more than enough. Anti-cheats are designed to detect cheats available to the mass, not to go hunt individuals using hacks. Servers admins can take care of him or someone can report him and the cheater will get banned.

Can you please stop lying and denying facts?

Edited January 27, 2013 by TSAndrey

[gummy52 57]

Can you please stop lying and denying facts?

Anti-cheats are designed to detect cheats available to the mass, not to go hunt individuals using hacks.

This is not a fact.

No, it can't. VAC is shit

It CAN detect changes to memory. Do you even understand why VAC is shit?

Edited January 27, 2013 by gummy52

[tsandrey 379]

This is not a fact.

Yes, it is.

It CAN detect changes to memory. Do you even understand why VAC is shit?

Because it has horrible detection rates and doesn't give server admins any options

[gummy52 57]

Because it has horrible detection rates and doesn't give server admins any options

You said it couldn't, though. Now you admit that it can, just that it doesn't do it very well.

Which is it?

Yes, it is.

Rather than engage in "no, you're wrong!", I'll refute your point. You claim that anti-cheats are designed only to catch cheats available to the mass. One of the things Warden does is relay information about a piece of memory. The server will log that response from the client, or lack there of. Please explain to me how that is "designed to detect cheats available to the mass", because to me that sounds like a generic way to catch when someone changes their XYZ, movement rate, etc.

Edited January 27, 2013 by gummy52

[chris90 54]

Hacking in Counter-Strike destroy the game

Hacking in Call of Duty in Hardcore Modus totally destroy the game

Hacking in DayZ annihilate the game.

DayZ have so much potential. Its just a fantastic game.

If you can not fight the Hacker i would say: just do it like Blizzard.

Create Official Server and let the ppl pay 10 Dollar in a month.

in 5 Years WoW i never saw a cheater. Why is that ? Do they have a better software ?

Another example Riot - League of Legends.

So you get enough money for big support for this game.

A Server System like in Age of Conan would be great for this.

if there are to many player in one area use more dimension.

i know some guys who cheated on counterstrike for years and never get banned, VAC is useless.

Edited January 27, 2013 by chris90

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Combination of VAC, BattlEye and good admin isn't enough? How much more do you want? I just want to know.

[nik21 287]

Hackshield is one example.

May be, hovever the detection rates of HackShield in comparison to BE are bad.

Even VAC can do that.

Of course BE has heuristic and certain checksums (more than VAC has), I was reffering to the picture you linked. You can't expect BE or anything else to detect some random external application which is read only. Furthermore, VAC is client-side only and has no server component, which means it can be cirmcurved easily.

Combination of VAC, BattlEye and good admin isn't enough? How much more do you want? I just want to know.

Wait what? Only VAC has been confirmed for the standalone, also you can cut out the "good admin" part since VAC does not offer any kind of admin features.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Nik21

[Guest Dwarden]

Hackshield is one example.

HackShield is not capable prevent memory reads ...

would broke on first AV/HIPS encounter

nor is all-mighty or w/e ...

it probably evolved since i last checked it

but at that time it was more capable to cripple the OS than cheat

falls into same category as GameGuard

...

same goes for games self,

they can't dynamically encrypt theirs own memory due to performance loss and usage overhead

@chris sorry, there is plenty of working cheats for LoL ... sadly

Edited January 27, 2013 by Dwarden

[gummy52 57]

You can't expect BE or anything else to detect some random external application which is read only.

That depends if the program is using a known API to read memory, which is why I mentioned HackShield.

Dwarden's post

Dwarden, who ever you are, I honestly can not understand your Enlgish.

HackShield is not capable prevent memory reads

No one will claim that GameGuard or HackShield magically "prevents memory reads", but unless I'm completely mistaken, it prevents ReadProcessMemory from being called under normal circumstances.

[Guest Dwarden]

so cheat will not use ReadProcessMemory under normal circumstances, your point ?

why use ReadProcessMemory at all,

let's read physical memory as whole (yep kernel driver and use native kernel calls) ...

or hook some OS's APIs ...

[gummy52 57]

Why do anything, right? What the fuck is your point?

[Guest Dwarden]

my point is that Your claims are quite strange,

why You mention already defeated method of detection as example when it's proven as 'not working' ?

BE is evolving and will sooner or later detect more RPM alike methods, but will do it differently than e.g. HackShield ...

Edited January 27, 2013 by Dwarden

[gummy52 57]

BE is evolving and will sooner or later detect more RPM alike methods

detect more RPM alike methods

why You mention already defeated method of detection

I really hope you aren't employed. I think I'm done posting here.

Edited January 27, 2013 by gummy52

[OrLoK 16188]

Why do anything, right? What the fuck is your point?

Calm it down please. Your'e having a chance to talk to Dwarden. Not many of us get the opportunity.

Rgds

L