Memory hacking in Standalone

[gummy52 57]

VAC, Steam and severside alone will make things hell for the hackers.

All MMO's are server side and VAC is not an obstacle. I mean that in literal terms. VAC is not designed to care whether or not a program scans a game's memory. Anti-Virus programs already do just that.

Edited January 17, 2013 by gummy52

[WalBanger 11]

Ok I have silly? Question/thought.....

I think, I THINK world of Warcraft don't have hacks or cheats.... Now i havent played it for around 10 years because there customer services suck arse so i could be wrong, but i didnt remember any cheating in the game... Yes they have bots to farm etc, but that's not the same as an aim bot or always critical damage given or wall hacks etc

Why is this and can't it be implemented in dayz as well?

Wait in fact I'm going to start my own thread...

[WalBanger 11]

Ok I have silly? Question/thought.....

I think, I THINK world of Warcraft don't have hacks or cheats.... Now i havent played it for around 10 years because there customer services suck arse so i could be wrong, but i didnt remember any cheating in the game... Yes they have bots to farm etc, but that's not the same as an aim bot or always critical damage given or wall hacks etc

Why is this and can't it be implemented in dayz as well? As its a MMO with info? Stored server side? Again could be wrong about similarities as I don't know (it just seems the same unlike, say CS)

They even have detections in place that find bots etc and do eventually ban them but they are using free trail accounts etc..... So they make a new free account...... But if you had to buy DayZ every time you got banned as there are no free trials, then people would surly stop hacking?

------------------------Edit------------------------

Sorry didn't make clear that I KNOW stand alone is different to the mod and so scripts won't run... And I know it's going to use VAC which I also know isn't 100% or even 80% fool proof...

Also I know that dieting on CS to a aim to/wall hack is annoying but not the end of the world.... On DayZ it is the end and that've to start all over again after surviving for days so cheats effect you far worse in this game.....

Edited January 17, 2013 by WalBanger

[burritoman259 593]

*sigh* This has been discussed hundreds of times, standalone will be using a more locked down engine to prevent cheating.

also standalone will have VAC.

[‮spacecaps 101]

VAC, Steam and severside alone will make things hell for the hackers.

As I said previously, antihack quality (and VAC is really a joke) doesn't have anything to do with it, having a dedicated anti-hacking team does. I don't know how well the communication between VAC and game devs organized, to be honest. Steam is not going to make anything harder. But yes, serverside is great, at least it means no teleporting, godmode (most likely) and spawning shit. I hope they also fixed duping as well.

I think, I THINK world of Warcraft don't have hacks or cheats.... Now i havent played it for around 10 years because there customer services suck arse so i could be wrong, but i didnt remember any cheating in the game... Yes they have bots to farm etc, but that's not the same as an aim bot or always critical damage given or wall hacks etc

Why is this and can't it be implemented in dayz as well?

Actually there are hackers in WoW/Diablo, but Blizzard are also relatively effective in eliminating them. See my long reply above, I was referring specificially to Blizzard. Basically, they have lots of money and lots of people working on it. Also, their game mechanics are much more robust, and architecture is much more server-side than DayZ will ever be.

Some non-top F2P devs (for example Hi-Rez) also seem to have a solid understanding of the problem, so it can be done when you have everything in place.

Edited January 17, 2013 by KizUrazgubi

[mick17 93]

As stated the Standalone will run VAC. Although it won't have a more locked down engine. It will have a mmo based server architecure where everything is done server side and all your client can do is request to do things and the server decides if its possible.

[WalBanger 11]

*sigh* This has been discussed hundreds of times, standalone will be using a more locked down engine to prevent cheating.

also standalone will have VAC.

THIS hasn't been talked about at all......

Counter Strike runs VAC correct? And has hacks correct? So it doesn't FULLY stop hacks.... So I'm asking what does wow do different?

And I know the SA uses a different engine that will stop "scripts" but not "hacks"

Please keep on my topic, if possible please.... And not making up your own thinking you know what I really "mean"

*sigh*

Edited January 17, 2013 by WalBanger

[Zachstar 59]

You may consider it a joke. But for those who experienced the dark ages of counterstrike hacking it really did have a hell of an effect. VAC was built in an age where hacking was threatening to destablize Valves entire multiplayer lineup. (Much like what is happening with Arma II DayZ) And has been improved ever sence. VAC dosen't have to be perfect to be the best automated anti-cheat solution out there.

There will never be an full on anti-hack team for a game that costs a one time fee of 15USD. So I wonder why you keep bringing it up. DayZ will never be free of cheats. But some here just don't see the huge effect the changes will have. Today you can run into cheats on an average day of DayZ. After 6 months of SA I wonder if it will even be a monthly showing.

[Ovation 52]

The architectural changes to the engine mean all request run through a domain server, if the server accepts the requests it will send the required information back, if it denies, the program closes or lags determining the VACs process check

There are possible hacks yes, like aim bots witch will be the worse

Speed hacks

bots in general

little things like that.

But bear in mind these people will be easily banned

and "hopefully" little kiddies wont watch youtube videos telling them "free AS50 bot" thus giving free keys away to real hackers..

because of risk of there steam accounts.

god i love rocket for using steam also <3

Edited January 17, 2013 by Ovation

[‮spacecaps 101]

Well, actually I experienced those "dark ages" of CS myself since the very start (late 90's).

VAC dosen't have to be perfect to be the best automated anti-cheat solution out there.

That's exactly the point I was making. But before talking about what's best... go ask any CoD player what they think about VAC.

There will never be an full on anti-hack team for a game that costs a one time fee of 15USD.

And this is too.

I have only one thing to add, I predict that ESP will destroy the game in months again, and this will be pretty much unexpected.

Time will show, of course.

Edited January 17, 2013 by KizUrazgubi

[Zachstar 59]

Sorry didn't make clear that I KNOW stand alone is different to the mod and so scripts won't run... And I know it's going to use VAC which I also know isn't 100% or even 80% fool proof...

VAC dosen't have to be perfect (Which is impossible even for corperate anti-hacking systems as evidenced by high profile hacks over the years) to be the absolute best in automated anti-cheating for games. Many peoples claims of it not stopping cheating are missing the fact that it does not instant ban. There is a completely random time after detection and the ban itself so that hackers can't easilly find out what hack tripped it.

Even with the best. You will still likely run into atleast one cheat in the future. And yes that could mean you lose all your ingame stuff you worked so hard to get. The key is that hacking will be VASTLY reduced. Which is the victory the game needs to thrive in the future.

[Zachstar 59]

You mean the average CoD player that has absolutely ZERO idea how VAC works and only notices that it does not instant ban hackers? And what would they rather have? Battleeye? LOLzors!

VAC is the best. Otherwise rocket would not face the controversy that normally happenens when becoming a steam exclusive. The easy updates and statistics are handy but nowhere near as game changing as VAC.

[WalBanger 11]

VAC dosen't have to be perfect (Which is impossible even for corperate anti-hacking systems as evidenced by high profile hacks over the years) to be the absolute best in automated anti-cheating for games. Many peoples claims of it not stopping cheating are missing the fact that it does not instant ban. There is a completely random time after detection and the ban itself so that hackers can't easilly find out what hack tripped it.

Even with the best. You will still likely run into atleast one cheat in the future. And yes that could mean you lose all your ingame stuff you worked so hard to get. The key is that hacking will be VASTLY reduced. Which is the victory the game needs to thrive in the future.

Yes that's awesome.... But no one is saying wow isn't 100% cheat free, so I'm guessing I'm right on this..... So why can't we do same in dayz? 100% has to be better than 99% (being genourous)

[Ovation 52]

VAC + server-side + a game where when you die you have to re-gear up slowly?

hacking sounds like it will be more annoying then gratifying in the standalone

if they can't insta kill/teleport/spawn gear

then whats the point?

i don't think many of the average 13yr old hackers will even bother.

Oh and they have already said View distance will be server-side locked

so they can only smell infront of there noise

Edited January 17, 2013 by Ovation

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Did you even research this at all? Go to youtube and type in "World of warcraft hacks" and you'll see some videos of them. I would link the videos I found but linking to cheats is not allowed on these forums.

[Zachstar 59]

There are those that find gratification in using any unfair cheat to ruin the game for another. That sadly will likely never change. So we can only hope that changes to server side, VAC, Steam, and other measures make it so expensive for them that there is less incentive to try again.

Sadly this means they will focus on those that are streaming. So it will be nessessary for steamers to again hide what server and names they are using which of course means far fewer runs with the fans.

However VAC dosent have to be perfect to be the best. There will be a reduction in my opinion and a big one.

[Zachstar 59]

NO game NO system is 100 percent hack free. What you want is the best solution for a game that can't have an epic anti-cheat staff.

VAC + Steam + Serverside is one of the best automated systems out there for preventing hacks. No it will not be on the level of WoW or EVE or any other super large MMO yet it will be FAR FAR FAR better than what is happeneing today.

[nuclear (DayZ) 7]

One non-programming way to help limit hackers is to ban their method of payment. This won't stop it entirely but it might give alot of these script kiddies pause when they realize that it will be more difficult to buy another copy of the game. If you get caught hacking, the account you used to buy the game gets blacklisted. Eventually, these idiots will either learn their lesson or stop because they will run out of cards/accounts to pay with. This would also let the community know that the developers are serious about combatting hackers and not just milking them for the multiple accounts that they purchase.

[WalBanger 11]

Did you even research this at all? Go to youtube and type in "World of warcraft hacks" and you'll see some videos of them. I would link the videos I found but linking to cheats is not allowed on these forums.

Good question and the answer is yes..... The videos you are talking about could be a few things:-

1) private run servers that has no monitoring because they aren't connected to blizzard and rely on admin/server owners to ban

2) are fake videos that make you download a program that gets you account details and passes them to a farmer who then hacks you account and abuses it till it gets banned.

3) they are later caught like I said, so ya great video but 3 week later no more account....

I watched a video of a very well known gold farmer and he talks about this stuff and says blizzards security is by far the best in any game and is impossible to hack.... He then goes onto say he buys 1000's of stolen keys/account details that have been stolen from other websites with no or low security (people use same email and password for wow and other websites) or from the people who download these "fake hacks" and it steals it from their PC.....

[nuclear (DayZ) 7]

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/118329-hacking-and-stopping-it/#entry1123409

I believe one of the ways to help slow down hacking is to make these actions have more lasting consequences. Hackers should know that they risk being permanently blacklisted from playing via their payment method. While there are ways around this, the more times you are caught the harder it will be to get another copy of the game. How many cards, accounts etc. can one person get? Advertising this feature would also limit other people buying copies for the hacker on their accounts. Its not perfect but every obstacle that can be placed in the cheater's path can only help.

[gummy52 57]

Assume the absolute best case scenario, and modifying the client in any way becomes impossible. That's a perfect result for VAC. So we assume that to be true, but there exists another problem. The screenshot below is an example of what at least a third of all players would have and use instead of using wall hacks.

http://i.imgur.com/T7YUq.png

The topic is not "Is VAC good enough to do what it's designed to do". The topic is "What about other vulnerabilities that VAC is not designed to protect?". VAC is not designed to (it does not attempt to) prevent memory reading. There are implementations that do. That is the issue that needs to be addressed.

Edited January 17, 2013 by gummy52

[WalBanger 11]

Another thing I would probably do (if I made the game) is buy the hacks, find out how they work and implement a way of tracking the people using the hack and then every week ban their account/game... And watch them cry.....

In fact that is probably the easiest and cheapest way of doing this :-)

Edited January 17, 2013 by WalBanger

[beastoverlord 574]

The creators of World of Warcraft, Blizzard is a company of hundreds, if not thousands of individuals. Although no hacks would be awesome, I don't think a very small company such as BIS has the time or manpower to completely foolproof their systems.

[gummy52 57]

<post from another thread>

How bad do you think the hacking will be in the standalone?

As it stands, when the standalone arrives, you should expect after the first week that 1 out of every 3 players is cheating by using an undetectable program that reads the game's memory for object locations. In addition to that, there will still be advanced users completely bypassing VAC and using wall hacks (or something to that effect).

Edited January 17, 2013 by gummy52

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

3 weeks or 3 years. Point is WOW isn't hack free like you claim. They just have lots of money to throw at the problem.

Let's wait until DayZ standalone is actually released before we lose faith in it's hack prevention.