Self Defense = Banditry Fix

[TIC 1050]

Hey everyone.. I have been thinking about how most times in situations you come upon an attack from another fellow survivor who is out to get you and you happen to kill that person upon your own defense but become a bandit as a result..

I was thinking of something along the lines of if you happen to get hit by a survivor(injured from them), it'll grant you an ability such as a timer or perhaps it'd be recorded somehow from that person who injured you directly. This would be able to let you fight back without becoming a bandit. It'll then tally up as to something called "Self Defense"

Example would be in this text format

DEBUG MONITOR

Blood: 12000

Humanity: 2500

Temperature:

Murders: 0

[ADDED]Self Defence: 0

Headshots: 0

Bandit Kills: 0

Zombie Kills: 0

Why?

The reason I had suggested this is because there are differences within bandits are misconstrued as just strictly murderers when they had their own story of fending themselves off from hostile survivors along with settling differences to make bandits more connected with being known as a survivor murderer

If you want to modify my idea or have your own opinion, please share and keep it mature :)

(This topic will be editted for grammar mistakes and adding/removing ideas on this suggestion for improvements)

Edited January 15, 2013 by TIC321

[Quartermaine 34]

Murder isn't self defence, at least in Australia.

[TIC 1050]

Murder isn't self defence, at least in Australia.

It's about survival. Fighting back against people trying to kill you should be self defense. Especially if it's in a zombie apocalypse :)

[Quartermaine 34]

If it's about survival, killing someone for their beans should not make you a bandit too then?

[colekern 1364]

If it's about survival, killing someone for their beans should not make you a bandit too then?

You're killing someone for their beans, you're killing them to defend yourself. As of now, unless you take a bullet from a hostile player, you lose humanity. Even if the guy shoots and misses.

[colekern 1364]

The game already does this. How about, if the shot lands near you, it counts as self defense?

[WiFiN 55]

The whole humanity mechanic is clumsy and stupid. That's why bandit skins had been disabled at some point. I find it really stupid that you aquire a huge glowing "shoot me, I'm a bad guy" sign above your head even if you were defending yourself or shot someone accidentaly.

If humanity system has to stay, then it should be as subtle as possible.

Like a sped up heartbeat you hear when a player with low humanity approaches you (though it shoud fool you sometimes),

or blood-soaked sleeves\hands if you looted player recently and haven't washed them.

Any automagical sytem that bluntly divides the goodies from baddies is wrong for this game. Especially some halloween costumes that appear on you out of the blue and you can't take them off no matter what.

[tombom 28]

Hey everyone.. I have been thinking about how most times in situations you come upon an attack from another fellow survivor who is out to get you and you happen to kill that person upon your own defense but become a bandit as a result..

I was thinking of something along the lines of if you happen to get hit by a survivor(injured from them), it'll grant you an ability such as a timer or perhaps it'd be recorded somehow from that person who injured you directly. This would be able to let you fight back without becoming a bandit. It'll then tally up as to something called "Self Defense"

Example would be in this text format

DEBUG MONITOR

Blood: 12000

Humanity: 2500

Temperature:

Murders: 0

[ADDED]Self Defence: 0

Headshots: 0

Bandit Kills: 0

Zombie Kills: 0

Why?

The reason I had suggested this is because there are differences within bandits are misconstrued as just strictly murderers when they had their own story of fending themselves off from hostile survivors along with settling differences to make bandits more connected with being known as a survivor murderer

If you want to modify my idea or have your own opinion, please share and keep it mature :)

(This topic will be editted for grammar mistakes and adding/removing ideas on this suggestion for improvements)

Obviously you just shoot then ask questions. The system does read self defense but it has to be self defense. Someone has to attack you first for you to get it. So I think you basically shoot people in the face because you get nervous. Plus most bandit are obvious and you get morality for killing them. Stop shooting noobs.

[jayman9696 14]

I like to think as humanity as how human you are (obviously). i also tie This in with posttraumatic stress disorder. Soldiors get PTSD from war. This changes them and makes them a little crazy and less human (sorta off, I'm trying to not offend people). Even though the terrorists were shooting at them too. Dayz humanity should work the same way. You lose it even if they are trying to kill you.

[tombom 28]

I like to think as humanity as how human you are (obviously). i also tie This in with posttraumatic stress disorder. Soldiors get PTSD from war. This changes them and makes them a little crazy and less human (sorta off, I'm trying to not offend people). Even though the terrorists were shooting at them too. Dayz humanity should work the same way. You lose it even if they are trying to kill you.

I get what you're trying to say here and your right. IN THEORY, humanity is what makes us humans and not soul less beast. Killing chips away at the soul and stress can drive someone nuts. Low humanity would mean that you couldn't even reason with someone anymore because they are dangerous. Killing them is the solution which is why you gain humanity for killing bandits, basically you're stopping evil

[guisho 258]

There are no more laws or rights in the apocalypse, your life depends on your own actions and only God can judge you.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Guisho

[Talibambi 119]

You're killing someone for their beans, you're killing them to defend yourself.

Um... Im fairly sure thats not how things are in the real world...

[SmashT 10907]

Isn't this how it already works in the mod? Bait someone to shoot you first and you won't lose humanity killing them.

[jayman9696 14]

Isn't this how it already works in the mod? Bait someone to shoot you first and you won't lose humanity killing them.

I believe they have to hit you and put you into combat. But you can't let then shoot you first. You'd die

[p4nnus 42]

I have a solution for this: remove the bandit skin. The whole humanity system is fighting against what Dean wants. I think he even said that he doesnt want to punish certain kinds of players. Putting a stupid scarf on your face and making your backbag invisible is punishing. IMO there should be no way to tell, except for trying to figure out from the behaviour, weapon of choice, location etc.

I hope that in SA, where you can adjust different pieces of clothing, the humanity will be just an painful echo far,far away. A distant memory.

Um... Im fairly sure thats not how things are in the real world...

Now lets be rational.. sure, thats not how things are in the real world. Are we playing Real WorldZ? Nope. Would this kind of behavior happen in a place like Chernarus, if an event like zombie infectioncalypse happened? We dont know, but possibly atleast.

[Snilex 40]

I like to think as humanity as how human you are (obviously). i also tie This in with posttraumatic stress disorder. Soldiors get PTSD from war. This changes them and makes them a little crazy and less human (sorta off, I'm trying to not offend people). Even though the terrorists were shooting at them too. Dayz humanity should work the same way. You lose it even if they are trying to kill you.

Actually it makes them less civilized not less human. I like to look at it like this. Kids can act evil, some say cruel, they hit other kids and don't understand why people get angry. This is because they are closer to beeing human than an adult who grow up and learn to be civilized. That's because humans are predators, we are ment to kill. most kids grow out of it, they become less human and more civilized.

That's why I use to call people in jail more human than us not in jail(Or us who have not done something to deserve jail time).

just saying :D

[dallas 5195]

I like humanity, because it helps people to decide whether they want to play DayZ as a game or live it as an experience. I think humanity works as an indicator of your general behavior, a cross server reputation, where you can't just switch to a parallel Chernarus universe after you killed ten people and then be completely anonymous.

When you start playing the game, you're quickly introduced to bandits, either by rumor from friendly survivors or from getting killed. With humanity/reputation indicators, each player will have to make a conscious decision to whether they will become a bandit, survivor or actively help other players.

As a hero I have no problem losing humanity for killing someone in self defense. I wont shoot first, but if you miss me or threaten my safety, I'll rather take the humanity penalty, than let you murder me freely. In self defense or retaliation for someone killing my team members, I've felt the psychological humanity loss, when even you justifiably kill someone. The rush of it makes you ready and willing to continue the killing and it you don't allow yourself to cool down, your inhibition to murder will automatically decrease. Even in self defense killing people changes you.

If you're a survivor and don't want to be known as a bandit, you need to get away from populated areas after you've been forced to kill someone. If you continue to stay in areas where you're constantly placed in situations, where you have to kill others in self defense, you're doing the whole staring into the abyss and the abyss stares back at you. If you're at 2500 humanity and you kill someone, you'll have to venture into the wilderness or at least avoid killing someone else for 70-80 minutes to regain your survivor skin. If you make a living by the gun, killing people, you are by my definition a bandit.

[colekern 1364]

Um... Im fairly sure thats not how things are in the real world...

I hate typos. Waht I meant is that, when someone attacks you in the real world, and you kill them to safe yourself, it's not murder, it's self defense.

[TIC 1050]

I just want to clarify this definition that I am trying to describe here..

• The opposing player would receive a 'murder' if they achieve in killing a player from striking a player first.
  

• The defending player would receive a 'self defense' if they successfully defend themselves UNLESS they strike upon new players first
  

Also, DayZ and real-life don't add up so please don't use those as a comparison.. Especially with murders. Not very thoughtful.

This idea is meant to balance/improve​ the humanity system.

And a response for TomBom, I happen to not be a bandit. I can take my chances with a mod as when you can die, you will always spawn again and retry. There is never a loss in easy achievable items.

Some people may say that this feature is already implemented and it's not. I have encountered survivors trying to murder me as a player and it'd be counted towards a murder unfortunately but as time goes, I can really see this feature being one of the necessities for the humanity system.

Edited January 17, 2013 by TIC321

[Quartermaine 34]

There are no more laws or rights in the apocalypse, your life depends on your own actions and only God can judge you.

5 Star post man.

I agree with P4nnus's post though, I dont understand the need to differentiate.

OP if you want to balance/improve the humanity system, I think the best option would be to remove it; why is it even present?

[TIC 1050]

5 Star post man.

I agree with P4nnus's post though, I dont understand the need to differentiate.

OP if you want to balance/improve the humanity system, I think the best option would be to remove it; why is it even present?

The humanity system is what makes a difference on your play-style and represents yourself as a character within DayZ. The developers believe the humanity system is necessary.

[CreepySalad 108]

There should be no humanity system.

This gives a disadvantage to players,

What they should do is make it harder to murder.

Make sniping way harder to prevent too many snipers.

Get rid of the skins, and the advantages that they bring, and just make murder have consequences.

[Buttery Toast 0]

There should be no humanity system.

This gives a disadvantage to players,

What they should do is make it harder to murder.

Make sniping way harder to prevent too many snipers.

Get rid of the skins, and the advantages that they bring, and just make murder have consequences.

If that were to happen then why not remove the PvP system instead? That what it seems like you are saying, but I agree with you about the sniping being harder.

[CreepySalad 108]

I'm not saying remove PvP, I'm saying make it harder to want kill someone.

You'll still need to kill to get good resources, just make it have consequences.

I don't know what they would be, though.

The item damage would be a good idea.

But I have no idea what other realistic consequences that could be added in a virtual world.

[TIC 1050]

I believe there should be consequences of taking away someone's life over a can of beans, which is called a murder. But a way to combat this is to have the player an ability to defend themselves to keep their goods and survive a couple more days without becoming a bandit.