If the bandit skins are still in the standalone I'm going to be pissed.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

I'll keep this post short, since this topic is moving too fast for long posts.

Actually it's the very essence of any post apocalytic tale.

These stories are not just about the struggle to survive, it's about how you survive.

There is no difference if it's current times or post apocalyptic future. There is no reason to highlight "humanity". I'm a good person, I don't run around killing people. Who knows, my neighbor might be luring little boys into his house to molest? He doesn't look any different on the outside, same as you and me...

I think people want that Gomer Pyle (Full Metal Jacket) or Shane Walsh (Walking dead) "I've gone crazy" mentality to be visible... Where that is just hollywood adding drama to the story.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Dreygar

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

You just don't get it do you? I am trying to brainstorm for ideas here! How the fuck does that not get through your head?! I don't see you giving ideas to the thread!

If all you want to do is bicker and sling around insults then i have nothing to say to you, goodbye!

Fucking trolls.

What are you not getting? I don't think there should be any indicators. Stop whining.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Dreygar

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

It's funny how you say theres many more options yet don't list any lol.

I was hoping that would have encouraged you into at least thinking about it for all of 10 seconds. If you did, I'm sorry. If you didn't, I'm even more sorry. You pretty much proved my point either way.

[Grey Warden 90]

What are you not getting? I don't think there should be any indicators. Stop whining.

Not whining trying to add something to the discussion...

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: a thousand times :facepalm:

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

guys you just killed the thread

[dallas 5195]

Well it's moving too fast for any real arguments. :)

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Not whining trying to add something to the discussion...

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: a thousand times :facepalm:

You're only trying to defend your need to have some visual indicator that someone is bad. Sorry, no sympathy.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

What are you not getting? I don't think there should be any indicators. Stop whining.

well then im glad your not developing DayZ SA then..

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Slow down there mate! I am merely putting ideas out there. I know they aren't great but i am trying to brainstorm and get people thinking about improving the mechanic and not just bickering. At no point have i whined about being killed alot your making alot of assumptions there mate.

What about telling you what ammo was used? (digging out the bullet/shrapnel?), it will be very inconclusive evidence but also not very accurate as many guns can use the same ammo type (5.56 for example).

Edit: fuck it, sorry for double post.

Bullet casings would tell pretty much the entire story but they're a bitch to find in real life even in short grass. :) I imagine a wound from an AS50 would look slightly different from wounds made by an AK at close range. Maybe studying the body could reveal the general type of gun and how many wounds but not get into too much detail.

Edited November 13, 2012 by SausageKingofChicago

[electroban 102]

I was hoping that would have encouraged you into at least thinking about it for all of 10 seconds. If you did, I'm sorry. If you didn't, I'm even more sorry. You pretty much proved my point either way.

and your still not offering up any options lol.

[Grey Warden 90]

Bullet casings would tell pretty much the entire story but they're a bitch to find in real life even short grass. :) I imagine a wound from an AS50 would look slightly different from wounds made by an AK at close range. Maybe studying the body could reveal the general type of gun and how many wounds but not get into too much detail.

Thank you! Someone who actually can talk about the topic and not just troll it! have some beans! BTW good idea!

See we are making progress! As for you Dreygar. I am not looking for sympathy (if anything the OP is). All i am trying to do is add to the thread he started. If your not going to add anything then i kindly ask you to get the fuck out (better spelled out i find). What are your reasons for not having any indicators whatsoever? Did you play any extensive amount during the one of times DayZ didn't have this mechanic? what was your experience (not opinion) on the amount of KOS.

[ZTrainz 21]

What is working about the system? You don't think the first introduction of bandit skins, where if obtained gave you a better advantage (camo) wasn't incentive to kill? Oh... then people realized how fun it was to kill one another so they kept doing it and now it is an uncontrolled downward spiral?

You don't think the lack of things to do in the game enabled people to resort to killing one another?

You don't think some newbie just wants to get his first weapon and run around killing anything they see?

This is a game, you cannot predict what someone is going to do; just like in the game you shouldn't be able to predict what the person is going to do. THAT is what brings the intense moments. Skins/indicators are not a solution to this, because there is no solution. People are going to do what they want in their sandbox, and having humanity is just silly.

There is a general perception that the periods where bandit skins were active had less KoS behavior. There are no publicly available numbers to prove one way or the other so this perception is the best we've got.

Anonymity and lack of consequence breeds antisocial behavior. Spend 10 minutes on the internet and this will become self-evident.

Without obvious visual indicators of 'good' or 'evil' players, the safest course of action for an individual rapidly devolves to KoS. We've seen it and not just in this game. Sandboxes without consequence just don't end with a fun environment.

The problem is that without the visual indicators, people WON'T do what the want. They'll KoS because they feel like they have to and every encounter becomes a foregone conclusion. I support bandit skins because I see it as a decent way to preserve the uncertainty and tension of player interactions. See player, shoot player is old and tired.

You could theoretically move player behavior away from KoS by imposing severe gameplay penalties for rampant killing but that would actually put the bandit playstyle at a measurable and concrete disadvantage. While I do want something more that just KoS, I don't support such penalties for a particular playstyle. If you have any ideas for moderating player behavior that don't involve visual indicators, please present them.

[electroban 102]

I'm not trying to say i'm in favor of KOSing i'm just saying there's better ways to combat that than being forced to put a towel on your head.

I'm saying it's stupid that if i'm killing someone to survive (like that example i made earlier) i shouldn't be made to look like a terrorist for it against my will.

I think there's a general accordance of agreement on this and I hope this bandit skin BS gets dropped in the SA

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

What is working about the system? You don't think the first introduction of bandit skins, where if obtained gave you a better advantage (camo) wasn't incentive to kill? Oh... then people realized how fun it was to kill one another so they kept doing it and now it is an uncontrolled downward spiral?

You don't think the lack of things to do in the game enabled people to resort to killing one another?

You don't think some newbie just wants to get his first weapon and run around killing anything they see?

This is a game, you cannot predict what someone is going to do; just like in the game you shouldn't be able to predict what the person is going to do. THAT is what brings the intense moments. Skins/indicators are not a solution to this, because there is no solution. People are going to do what they want in their sandbox, and having humanity is just silly.

The current system has put the bandits on equal footing with everyone else. The current skin/bandit head as it is now is a bit ridiculous but its purpose is being served. And the first skin definitely offered a slight advantage and the players didn't need someone to show them it was fun to kill in game. The KoS problem did spiral out of control to the point where the game was nothing but a persistent deathmatch of combat logging, server hopping, douchebags looking to call out friendly and fire the first chance they had. At least now you can somewhat trust a guy long enough to trade blood bags and maybe team up with other survivors and *cough* "heroes" that don't want to shoot on sight, which is something bandits that thrive on cheap kills don't want to see happen.

The hacker problem that was plaguing this game caused the worst of the coastal deathmatching as no one wanted to run north if they were just going to get squashed by some kid with a script. The lack of things to do wasn't as instrumental in the KoS as the hackers were.

A newbie is going to have a hard to killing anything so he needs to learn the ropes first. If he knows gunning down people leads to becoming a bandit and still does it then that's his fault.

I for one am glad this game isn't 100% deathmatching anymore so I'm happy with the skin, even when I earn it. It isn't permanent so if I don't want it, I don't have to have it.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I'm not trying to say i'm in favor of KOSing i'm just saying there's better ways to combat that than being forced to put a towel on your head.

I'm saying it's stupid that if i'm killing someone to survive (like that example i made earlier) i shouldn't be made to look like a terrorist for it against my will.

I think there's a general accordance of agreement on this and I hope this bandit skin BS gets dropped in the SA

"and your still not offering up any options lol."

[Grey Warden 90]

His not trying to offer different options his putting out his opinion about the skins. Not sure if he likes or dislikes the 'humanity meter' but things shouldn't be forced on the player. Which is why i suggested things that do not deal with the player like the 'study body' and stuff.

In my opinion its just a game mechanic and like any other game there will always be things you don't like and things that you like. For me i don't like the way Zeds spawn (should always be around so not to alert snipers) but i see that if all zeds were around all the time it could cause some serious lag issues for some so i weigh up which is more important. Alerting snipers or lag. For me the more pressing problem is lag so i accept the Zed spawn mechanic.

Same with the skins. I don't like it much like the OP doesn't (forced character model change). But without it (in my opiniion at least) it lead to more or less complete KOS action which was boring so i weighed up the pros and cons and found that i didn't mind the skins as i hated the KOS mentality more (and as others have stated there are many ways to get rid of the skins: ghille, camo clothing, waiting for humanity to raise enough for instance did you know that killed zeds apparantly raises humanity, not confirmed though not sure?, transfusion).

Edited November 13, 2012 by Grey Warden

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Bullet casings would tell pretty much the entire story but they're a bitch to find in real life even in short grass. :) I imagine a wound from an AS50 would look slightly different from wounds made by an AK at close range. Maybe studying the body could reveal the general type of gun and how many wounds but not get into too much detail.

This is turning into CSI Day Z. I would like to see dead bodies being riddled with bullets, missing limbs, etc. I just don't think that is going to happen with this game. I never said I disagreed with the "Study Body> Person appears to have died from a bullet wound/laceration/etc." I still don't know how that will benefit in any way to the game however.

I think you guys just have a sour taste in your mouth from being killed so many times. I've run into lots of people and survived without anyone being shot. You are only encouraging a team deathmatch environment when you segregate.

I think what is always overlooked is the lack of things to do in the game in its current stage. People have looted all over the map, people have flown/driven every vehicle. Shot/collected every weapon. Killed hundreds of zombies. It's leaving them only one thing left to do. The mentality is rubbing off on new people, who join and think that is the purpose of the game. They either get frustrated or join in.

As far as "contributing" to the thread, I think holding my stand beside the Op in agreeing no skins is my contribution. I'm sorry, maybe you should make the thread "Why bandit skins are needed? "

[electroban 102]

"and your still not offering up any options lol."

Total fucking spazztard troll bro, like i havent seen you ooze your shit on that other thread enough already you have to ooze it on this.

KoSing is there because theres nothing to fucking do in game once you have all your gear. KoSing is the Joe Casual players way of getting isntant gratification. Everyone knows the game spawns you on the coast and you run to cherno/elektro to get your stuff. The action on public servers is always centralised around that area, I would be willing to bet that cherno/elektro has the most frequent amount of KoSing in correlation to anywhere else on the map.

As to suggestions like i said, read the fucking thread, i suggested maybe a karma system that makes your characters chance of finding better drops fewer. I also suggested the spawn points on cherno should be all over the map as opposed to the coast so people can't just fester in cherno/ekeltro. All of these are options in other posts i made in this thread.

So now your options to the scenario i displayed? Or you going to continue talking shit, or back to oooze more shit onto that other thread your in?

I want the game so it's no longer Kill to have fun, it's kill to survive the environment.

Edited November 13, 2012 by electroban

[waffen-79 32]

LOL Brah! there shouldn't be any "SKINS" to begin with

Hell I love ArmA II and I know is running on a heavyly modified 2001 RV engine but they need to rework the "units" parts engine so no fixed model or "SKIN" lawl for soldiers is defined

Or at least in the stand alone so we are presented with a custom character engine like Saints Row 3, Skyrim, Fallout NV, APB, etc. with customizable clothes and face and body morphs, but I know you guys are lazy and seeing theWarZ has a joke for characters customization you won't do anything

[ybm 111]

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

I think Rocket spoiled you guys with his little bandit/hero skin experiment, because now you guys can't let them go. As mentioned, from everything I have read/seen by Rocket he wants to make a hardcore game. Things that dumb down the game to make it more accessible (again something he has mentioned he's against) only take away from the vision of the game. I'm sure if he put in an option to turn off permadeath, and then took it away... we'd have another thread of people "please keep it as an option", Just like he said he's removing the indicators for food and such, replaced with more visual cues and sounds like a gurgling stomach... I'll be waiting for the threads about "Please bring back the indicators!" ... Do you see the trend here or is it just me?

What attracted you to this game? Ask yourself that. Was it the hardcore survival aspects or just the Zombies?

[electroban 102]

Yeah I think another idea would be to introduce some kind of "weathered" skin model. So say if you start out day 1 after maybe X amount of zombie kills, player kills, or days alive your clothes and face begin deteriorate, should look more dirty, get some stubble in there, and maybe some ripped clothes.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

This is turning into CSI Day Z. I would like to see dead bodies being riddled with bullets, missing limbs, etc. I just don't think that is going to happen with this game. I never said I disagreed with the "Study Body> Person appears to have died from a bullet wound/laceration/etc." I still don't know how that will benefit in any way to the game however.

I think you guys just have a sour taste in your mouth from being killed so many times. I've run into lots of people and survived without anyone being shot. You are only encouraging a team deathmatch environment when you segregate.

I think what is always overlooked is the lack of things to do in the game in its current stage. People have looted all over the map, people have flown/driven every vehicle. Shot/collected every weapon. Killed hundreds of zombies. It's leaving them only one thing left to do. The mentality is rubbing off on new people, who join and think that is the purpose of the game. They either get frustrated or join in.

As far as "contributing" to the thread, I think holding my stand beside the Op in agreeing no skins is my contribution. I'm sorry, maybe you should make the thread "Why bandit skins are needed? "

I was just brainstorming with him. A bullet casing will pretty much tell you what type of round was used. You don't need to be an expert at firearms to read the casing. I don't think this should be added to the game. I was throwing out a bit of basic knowledge I've gained. Granted, it does seem like a topic for another thread.

Knowing if a player was eaten or shot can tell you a lot about your current situation. It'll also tell you a lot about the person that shot them if the body hasn't been looted or wasn't looted fully. Both bits of info would easily fit into this game and give players more tools to understand their environments.

As for making another thread about bandit skins, why? This thread isn't even needed. There are plenty of other threads OP could have bumped with his contribution to the discussion. Nothing anyone said here was new or original. If OP had fired up the search feature instead of telling people to Learn2Read (registered trademark by Hooked On Phonics) he would have known this.

Yup, there's a lack of new things to do but the game is what you make of it.

[electroban 102]

Sausage King, you still arn't putting out any options onto that scenario I made, I mean you did SAY there were loads remember? You just didn't say anything yet. have you forgotten, or do you just ignore things you can't directly troll, and go around spouting lukewarm garbage without any substance or content to what you say.

"OK Consider this as a hypothetical situation, say the game is rebalanced A LOT.

You're in the woods, there's no food ANYWHERE. Your food is blinking and you're bleeding out from the starvation. You see another player, whose just say got an axe where as you have a shotgun. You be the nice guy, you ask over Direct "Hey man you got any food?" The other player replies "Not for you bitch". I want my character to survive, so i shoot the player in the face and I prize his beans out of his cold dead hands. Oh no but what's this? a skin has been forced on your character, how the hell did that get there.

let's hear the options plz

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Total fucking spazztard troll bro, like i havent seen you ooze your shit on that other thread enough already you have to ooze it on this.

KoSing is there because theres nothing to fucking do in game once you have all your gear. KoSing is the Joe Casual players way of getting isntant gratification. Everyone knows the game spawns you on the coast and you run to cherno/elektro to get your stuff. The action on public servers is always centralised around that area, I would be willing to bet that cherno/elektro has the most frequent amount of KoSing in correlation to anywhere else on the map.

As to suggestions like i said, read the fucking thread, i suggested maybe a karma system that makes your characters chance of finding better drops fewer. I also suggested the spawn points on cherno should be all over the map as opposed to the coast so people can't just fester in cherno/ekeltro. All of these are options in other posts i made in this thread.

So now your options to the scenario i displayed? Or you going to continue talking shit, or back to oooze more shit onto that other thread your in?

I want the game so it's no longer Kill to have fun, it's kill to survive the environment.

I read the thread. Your posts are the fun ones.

A karma system that punishes bandits. Yeah, that's going to go over real well. Oh, and that wouldn't work anyway as not all the loot you find was spawned by you.

Just to be clear, you want to punish bandits but you don't want to be identified as a bandit so you can steal non-bandits loot by shooting them or by server hopping? Yup, KOS solved!