If the bandit skins are still in the standalone I'm going to be pissed.

[Skat3rat 1633]

Fear will keep you healthy

It will keep you alive...

[ZTrainz 21]

Anytime you begin with the phrase "In a real life zombie apocalypse," you invalidate everything that follows. I'm getting really sick of people trying to support their opinions about a video game that purports to simulate a completely fictional event with "But IRL..."

That's the point though I'm not asking to replace the bandit skins with something else, my my topic is centralised around getting rid of the bandit skin! trying to impose a morality system within a simulation of a zombie apocalypse game is ridiculous. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

The games isn't imposing ANY morality system on you. The bandit skin is just that... a skin - nothing more, nothing less. It's the players that assign a meaning to it. If societal values were reversed bandits would be revered instead of reviled.

As it stands, the players are collectively telling you that your past behavior is unacceptable by shooting you (and all the other bandits) on sight.

Judging from your posts here, what you want is to shoot anyone you want without community reprisal. I'm sorry but that just doesn't fit with DayZ. It does, however, fit with a ton of other shooters out there. Maybe you'd be happier playing one of them.

[electroban 102]

Anytime you begin with the phrase "In a real life zombie apocalypse," you invalidate everything that follows. I'm getting really sick of people trying to support their opinions about a video game that purports to simulate a completely fictional event with "But IRL..."

The games isn't imposing ANY morality system on you. The bandit skin is just that... a skin - nothing more, nothing less. It's the players that assign a meaning to it. If societal values were reversed bandits would be revered instead of reviled.

As it stands, the players are collectively telling you that your past behavior is unacceptable by shooting you (and all the other bandits) on sight.

Judging from your posts here, what you want is to shoot anyone you want without community reprisal. I'm sorry but that just doesn't fit with DayZ. It does, however, fit with a ton of other shooters out there. Maybe you'd be happier playing one of them.

My actions shouldn't have any consequence in the game especially not having a magical skin being fitted onto me. It doesn't make any sense and breaks the immersion. And it is an imposition, I'm having an unwanted set of clothes being set on me by some kind of Godhand. The bandit skin is a punishment for killing.

And thanks for that hole "judging from your posts" schpeel it was great. I've killed say 5 to 7 players since i've started playing (which was months and months ago), I don't kill that often if it all. I'm not a bandit and I have no bandit skin on my body currently. I'm not asking for this to be changed for my own personal motive, I'm asking it to be changed for the benefit of the game itself.

Edited November 13, 2012 by electroban

[Grey Warden 90]

I'm running out of blood bro and that guy is now walking away from me. I could spend the remaining of the blood I have left begging him then falling down dead, or I could shoot him and get his beans. And he said "not for you bitch" which means he's being "obtuse".

In your example your character didn't even say that he was armed with a shotgun. In said situation thats about all you would have to say to get someone to shit bricks and do whatever you say. Shooting him first only proves the 'bandit' mentality for the character and IRL the clothes of a person does in fact reflect the personality (chavs wearing sports clothes even in winter, emos wearing black and makeup and gothic stuff would these two think and behave the same way?).

At the end of the day its a game mechanic from stopping it becoming a full blown PvP arena. In the perfect world there would be other 'tells' but it isn't a perfect world so there isn't.

Just wish to ask everyone to calm down, its a problem with these forums which makes me want to leave them for good and thats the constant bickering. If i was an admin this forum would be ran very differently, as at the moment it just feels very immature(talking whole forum not just this topic).

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

Well even though the OP is making it unbelievably hard for anyone to agree with his argument, thing is he does have a point. The fact that bandits are reskinned does not fit at all with the spirit of DayZ. I'd daresay the whole thing was forced in by, you know, people with similar opinions to those you're putting down here.

Don't get me wrong, but people in this thread seem to be rather in the 'survivor' side of things, what means some opinions are not as objective as it would be desirable in a, you know, civilized debate. Not that that the OP is, but still.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

I think when you commit a murder in game, you should be turned into Borat. This will stop killing!

OP if you want to eat me, eat my testicles!

[Jamz 253]

I'm running out of blood bro and that guy is now walking away from me. I could spend the remaining of the blood I have left begging him then falling down dead, or I could shoot him and get his beans. And he said "not for you bitch" which means he's being "obtuse".

Then ultimately its your choice. Truth is though that situations like this are relatively rare and if you got a bandit skin from killing one non bandit survivor then you probably killed others before. Also as I've said its not permenant so as long as you don't go on a killing spree, you'll lose it anyway. That means that if you had to kill an innocent you're not marked for the rest of your life so it allows for bad judgement calls or unavoidable kills.

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

Now I think about it, being re-skinned when I kill somebody sounds like sucky. This being a pacifist, but what a bummer anyway. way to kill realism :|

Edited November 13, 2012 by Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha

[dallas 5195]

It's not like we tried playing DayZ without bandit skins and KOS escalated out of hand ...twice.

While bandit and hero skins give an indication of the humanity and motivation, nothing is certain. I've seen both hostile heroes and friendly bandits. It's not uncommon that looters and marauders conceal their identity in time of crisis, nor is it uncommon or difficult in post apocalyptic fiction to distinguish between those who shed their humanity completely and those who don't. The stronghold surrounded with decapitated human heads on sticks, might not be the best place to ask for shelter. The group of guys with gimp masks and spikes on their shoulders, might not be a safehaven for female survivors.

It real life you don't respawn and you'd need larger groups or warloads to completely besiege a major cities. Surviving witnesses would soon spread rumors, about dangerous areas and tribes. The problem in DayZ is everyone looks the same and no one is tied to a single location. Anyone at anytime can magically snap their fingers, disconnect and change to a parallel universe, where no one knows that they are mass murderers. Single bandits live a dangerous life in Cherno/Elektro, but these towns are a mere 10 minute run away, so getting killed isn't a great deterrence for bandits. Since gear is the only progression, it promotes players to take greater risks, rather than to survive. I can't come up with an alternative, but I'd like to see days lived affect your progression also. Maybe carrying a heavy backpack for 7 seven days increase your stamina pool.

The humanity system isn't flawless nor is it realistic, but it works as a inhibitor, forcing DayZ players react as people rather than just as gamers. Pulling the trigger on a person in DayZ has consequences for both the aggressor and his victim. So does returning fire in self defense. I think taking a human life no matter the circumstances, changes you. In DayZ, unlike other shooters, you chose pull the trigger after you weighed the consequences.

Anyways both bandits and heroes have the option to conceal their humanity level using ghillie suits and camo clothing.

[Jamz 253]

Well even though the OP is making it unbelievably hard for anyone to agree with his argument, thing is he does have a point. The fact that bandits are reskinned does not fit at all with the spirit of DayZ. I'd daresay the whole thing was forced in by, you know, people with similar opinions to those you're putting down here.

Don't get me wrong, but people in this thread seem to be rather in the 'survivor' side of things, what means some opinions are not as objective as it would be desirable in a, you know, civilized debate. Not that that the OP is, but still.

I must admit I for one am more survivor orientated, but I'm in no way anti PvP, it is neccesary and the mod would fail without it. Its not really a question of punishing PvP, but more finding a way to artificially simulate conscience which is played down due to the whole situation not being real. In many ways I agree with the OP, and I'm enjoying this thread, but its the fundamental issue of humanity we disagree on.

[Grey Warden 90]

Wow now I think about it, being re-skinned when I kill somebody really does suck. This being a pacifist, but what a bummer anyway. way to kill realism :|

In a game where you can respawn, run to tent, regear and go back to whatever you were doing before. Or how about drive a car or even a Helicopter with no training! Or even better be able to repair said cars and helis without training or 'engineering for dummies' manuals. Maybe the fact that Zombies are running around is kinda obvious too as not being realistic. What about healing a broken bone with a small shot of morphine! Or survive multiple shots to the chest and eat a steak and feel much better!

Yeah realism! :lol:

Edited November 13, 2012 by Grey Warden

[ZTrainz 21]

My actions shouldn't have any consequence in the game especially not having a magical skin being fitted onto me. It doesn't make any sense and breaks the immersion. And it is an imposition, I'm having an unwanted set of clothes being set on me by some kind of Godhand. The bandit skin is a punishment for killing.

Why shouldn't your actions have consequence? Who are you to make that call? Like I said, there are plenty of other shooters out there that have no consequences for killing at all. DayZ is evidently trying to be something different.

Immersion breaking? I agree with that. It certainly isn't a perfect system but that doesn't justify it's complete removal.

It's only a punishment because a large segment of the community has deemed it so. If the bandit skin triggered from cow kills instead of player kills it probably wouldn't be KoS. Any guesses on whether it would become a KoS skin for any servers located in India???

And thanks for that hole "judging from your posts" schpeel it was great. I've killed say 5 to 7 players since i've started playing (which was months and months ago), I don't kill that often if it all. I'm not a bandit and I have no bandit skin on my body currently. I'm not asking for this to be changed for my own personal motive, I'm asking it to be changed for the benefit of the game itself.

Your posts are all I have to judge you by. Now that I know you're not a bandit I judge you to be short-sighted,close-minded and wrong.

[ybm 111]

In a game where you can respawn, run to tent, regear and go back to whatever you were doing before. Or how about drive a car or even a Helicopter with no training! Or even better be able to repair said cars and helis without training or 'engineering for dummies' manuals. Maybe the fact that Zombies are running around is kinda obvious too as not being realistic. What about healing a broken bone with a small shot of morphine! Or survive multiple shots to the chest and eat a steak and feel much better!

Yeah realism! :lol:

Don't forget about the choppers doing front and back flips.

[electroban 102]

In your example your character didn't even say that he was armed with a shotgun. In said situation thats about all you would have to say to get someone to shit bricks and do whatever you say.

In accordance to not saying L2Read as much I will say what i was meant to say urrr. Please read the posts thoroughly before making a turd out of yourself. Please refer to post 59.

Edited November 13, 2012 by electroban

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

In a game where you can respawn, run to tent, regear and go back to whatever you were doing before. Or how about drive a car or even a Helicopter with no training! Or even better be able to repair said cars and helis without training or 'engineering for dummies' manuals. Maybe the fact that Zombies are running around is kinda obviouse too as not being realistic. What about healing a broken bone with a small shot of morphine! Or survive multiple shots to the chest and eat a steak and feel much better!

Yeah realism! :lol:

No offend meant, but honestly, I hardly see any of the things you're putting down there sounding like actual immersion breaking events. Branding myself as a somewhat realism demanding kind of player, don't think player-reactive game features can compare to context choices or platform limitations.

[Grey Warden 90]

Don't forget about the choppers doing front and back flips.

Of course! hey what about there being lots of anti armor sniper rifles about even though even in todays standards they are quiet rare! or taking 24 painkillers at once and not even feeling ill for it!

In accordance to not saying L2Read as much I will say what i was meant to say urrr. Please read the posts thoroughly before making a turd out of yourself. Please refer to post 59.

Don't start at me mate, not in the mood for bickering, either respond in a more mature way or fuck off, ok? As for post 59 i am sorry but you seem to have more free time then me so how about you go look for it for me.

No offend meant, but honestly, I hardly see any of the things you're putting down there sounding like actual immersion breaking events. Branding myself as a somewhat realism demanding kind of player, don't think player-reactive game features can compare to context choices or platform limitations.

"player-reactive game features"? what planet are you on? breaking your legs on a ladder or doorway not immersion breaking for you? then WTF is? I'm sorry you claim to want immersion but fail to realise alot of stuff is game mechanics which will ALWAYS break the forth wall. (no offense meant here either mate just i fail to see where your comming from when your the one saying about immsersion, i just wanted to point out a few other flaws that break that but people seem fine with).

Edited November 13, 2012 by Grey Warden

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

I must admit I for one am more survivor orientated, but I'm in no way anti PvP, it is neccesary and the mod would fail without it.

However, this is an argument I'd have to concede to. I feel this makes more sense than any other attempt people are making at justifying the mechanic.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha

[electroban 102]

Yes alot of people are trying to use "actions have consequences" and try and justify morality in a world where humanity is now on the endangered species list. This game is all about keeping it anonymous, the bandit skin doesn't keep someone from killing you. If someone wants to kill you they will kill you. Ironically I'd say I've been killed more by regular skinned people than bandit skins anyway.

This game was supposed to be sandboxy and open; you make your own game. Yet now the game is trying to get me to do something I don't want to do, it's trying to make me wear something I don't want to wear? There has gottah be a better way. I was thinking there could be a karma like system say if you are a bandit maybe drop chances on things are reduced for your character. But that isn't even cool anyway.

To me the bandit skin is just Rocket appealing to the lowest common denominator aka "the cry baby". Which is probably why its currently so God damn easy to survive. Get rid of the bandit skin it just craps on the feeling of the game.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

Ok so I shot that guy in the face cos he looked at me funny, and I shot that other guy in the face cos he was eyeing my backpack with his ironsights. Oh so now I'm a bandit? Sorry don't call this is a realistic iimmersive experience when my clothes are being forceably changed so I stand out to everyone else as a murdering bastard. This games all about being anonymous, hence why there's no chat. I just think it's BS my skin is being changed based on some kind of punishing moral system? That's BS and it needs to stay out. If it was a real zombie apocalypse and i murdered a load of people cos I had to, I wouldn't start wearing their skins as clothing for when I run into more people.

TLDR : We do what we do to survive in the game, it's completely immersion breaking to have skins forced on your character that identify you as a killer, I want to keep that information to myself? So quit it already. Better not be in the SA.

ah, so ur the type that wants to murder and KoS without having to answer for it..

i sure ur above post is correct DayZ would be alot better off without players that feel like murdering and not having to answer is fine..

the door is that way ------>

ps theres NOOOO way the bandit skin is gunna be removed, its prolly one of the single best additions to DayZ since the KoS issue became the plaque it is today.

while it may be changed in how it works in SA, there will most def. be something that does the same thing if it is somehow changed.

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

Looking at it with a bit of perspective, I think WarZ's community inability to just accept that sh*t happens is strong around here too.

I mean I picture myself in, you know, some long surviving session in which I was looting my righteous way to the top of the chain, only to get headshot by some of those half-assed, moral relativism preachers that thrive just so well around here.

So what? Are you gonna blame the guy for acting the way he is? I rather pity those guys, really. They're some of the loneliest, most bitter, psychologically butthurt individuals IRL. I mean even if one just killed me. The thing is, I'm convinced, they're suffering, much more than you by behaving that way, regardless of you know, getting to loot whatever you had in the moment. And that's pretty much why I don't blame them, 'cause even though next thing they'll be doing is bragging 'bout the kill all over the forums and ventilate the supremacy of their morals, the real thing is, they've lost the battle in life already.

[electroban 102]

ah, so ur the type that wants to murder and KoS without having to answer for it..

i sure ur above post is correct DayZ would be alot better off without players that feel like murdering and not having to answer is fine..

the door is that way ------>

ps theres NOOOO way the bandit skin is gunna be removed, its prolly one of the single best additions to DayZ since the KoS issue became the plaque it is today.

while it may be changed in how it works in SA, there will most def. be something that does the same thing if it is somehow changed.

Please check post 78 before making yourself look like a turd. Which clearly says i do not KOS habitually. THanks for the input.

[Grey Warden 90]

Agreed that

Yes alot of people are trying to use "actions have consequences" and try and justify morality in a world where humanity is now on the endangered species list. This game is all about keeping it anonymous, the bandit skin doesn't keep someone from killing you. If someone wants to kill you they will kill you. Ironically I'd say I've been killed more by regular skinned people than bandit skins anyway.

Maybe because theres more survivor skins out there? But i can also say that i have been killed more by survivor skins than bandit skins but thats more to the point that i rarely find people with bandit skins.

This game was supposed to be sandboxy and open; you make your own game. Yet now the game is trying to get me to do something I don't want to do, it's trying to make me wear something I don't want to wear? There has gottah be a better way. I was thinking there could be a karma like system say if you are a bandit maybe drop chances on things are reduced for your character. But that isn't even cool anyway.

It is a sandbox and i see where your coming from (always have since your first post). Like the idea of karma and in a single player game it would work (well wouldn;t as there would be no players to murder but still). But its multiplayer so having less gear spawns because theres a bandit nearby would be annoying for those trying to gear up when a bandit is camping a roof nearby (punishing the wrong player with said karma). Personally i think all weapons bar some sidearms should be rare and military ones should be very rare. More improvised weapons like hammers etc.

The Zeds need to be more threatening so a loud shot from a bandit's rifle would do more then alert players nearby but also bring a horde of Zs to his location and maybe they can grab and stuff too.

Maybe instead of skins there should be 'twitches' made by the murderer that are subtle but are still there. So someone watching another player would have to watch closely and for a longer time to find out whether bandit or not and not just see it straight away (skin). Twitches could be stuff like head jerking or character scratching his arm, or walking with a slight limp, or making strange sounds (breathing heavily all the time for instance to show a slight mental breakdown of murdering someone) anything.

As i said before, what we have isn't perfect but its something. Did you play at the time they were testing without the skins? It was basically a warzone (or an average COD game) and not the DayZ experience everyone wanted. Maybe i was just unlucky during that time but that was my experience.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Grey Warden

[Itsnotcrazyuntilchachacha 13]

Ok everybody look at me now: I'm the guy who wants to be KoS, betrayed, sniped and robbed by people, 'cause in real life -> my perfect zombie apocalypse videogame, the uncertainty is one of the things that make this game feel alive. Not knowing what to expect from the person you're aiming at, or the one you found scavenging the same house.

[electroban 102]

I know it's not perfect and I get it is "something". But it's a band aid on an issue that is caused by other things in the game. (e.g the cherno elektro death match meta). I'm saying its great for now, it just better not be in the standalone.

It's not only just the removal of the bandit skin that should be in the standalone they need to change a lot of other things at which point the justification of even needing a bandit skin won't even be there (hopefully)

[electroban 102]

Ya it's like meeting people in real life, sometimes you can meet ass holes sometimes you will meet good people that will be your pal. It's just taking out the suspense and thrill of not knowing, and giving a player a sign on his head that says "asshole" basically. The chance needs to be there it's scarier that way.

Edited November 13, 2012 by electroban