Standalone and Helicopters.

[ruecanonrails 24]

Seeing as how the standalone from what I can gather is using the modified arma 2 engine that was created for Take On Helicopters along with adopting the flight simulation aspect of it I have a question for everyone.

What would you like to see for how the helicopters flight behaves?

Personally I'd love to see it forced in the games "Expert" difficulty setting with no OSD of your gauges, instead how it should be where you have to look at the dash on the helicopter itself. Along with pre-flight visual inspection for deterioration and general wear and tear.

I'd even do away with the 3rd person view while in a helicopter which isn't enabled on expert to begin with.

The helicopters are rare and hard enough to find/repair them.. Flying should be no different.

[Faceman Peck 93]

Please put this in suggestions section. An why do you think your particular suggestion will impact the game in positive way?

[ruecanonrails 24]

It's not a suggestion. This belongs here in general chat. I'm not trying to suggest anything, I'm looking for a discussion on the general aspect of helicopters in the next rendition of the game. All we know is that dayz will use the flight simulation from TOH but it hasn't been stated how complex the flight will be.

I think it would add more to the game in such a way that if a group has a helicopter it means they require a pilot, not just any random person who jumps in and holds Q. It could open up a whole new "job" for people that play the game you have medics that run around healing people, now clans could recruit skilled pilots, or pilots could outsource their skills in exchange for gear.

[ShazMo09 7]

What about players that dont have a clan, which in turn means harder to loot decent items and find vehicles. They will rarely get to fly a heli lettalone see one. How will they get to enjoy a helicopter the ONE day they finally do stumble across one?

[ImageCtrl 719]

I´m shure Choppers work like this.

Bet Cars work also this way.

I prefer it.

[Erizid 56]

If they port helicopters from TOH, they will also have the extremely complicated start-up procedure.

[walrus2517 27]

I appreciate the point you make but I think flying a heli is difficult enough as it is. I haven't played TOH but I did watch that tutorial video and it shouldn't be that complicated just to take off.

It's true that right now anyone can just jump in a heli, hit the thrust, and get going, but I want to see someone land their first time without crashing. I quickly learned after losing a few characters to crashes to ask if a pilot has flight experience before jumping in with them. With the new maps helis aren't as rare as they were when it was just Chernarus and I've actually found a few recently. I don't think any flight lasted more than a minute before I crashed, usually just trying to land. I ended up pulling my old flight stick out of the closet, plugging it in for the first time in a few years, and loading up the armory to practice. About 5 hours of flight time later I feel like I'm an adequate pilot, good enough to get around and land without killing myself, but I still have plenty of close calls and every landing is still a shaky affair.

I just don't see the need to make it so complicated only a small handful of TOH/Arma expert pilots can actually enjoy helis. I think the vast majority of players still aren't full time clan guys who can have a few pilots readily available whenever they need.

TL;DR - Helis are fun. Don't make them so complex no one can enjoy them.

[DrunkPunk 159]

I appreciate the point you make but I think flying a heli is difficult enough as it is. I haven't played TOH but I did watch that tutorial video and it shouldn't be that complicated just to take off.

It's true that right now anyone can just jump in a heli, hit the thrust, and get going, but I want to see someone land their first time without crashing. I quickly learned after losing a few characters to crashes to ask if a pilot has flight experience before jumping in with them. With the new maps helis aren't as rare as they were when it was just Chernarus and I've actually found a few recently. I don't think any flight lasted more than a minute before I crashed, usually just trying to land. I ended up pulling my old flight stick out of the closet, plugging it in for the first time in a few years, and loading up the armory to practice. About 5 hours of flight time later I feel like I'm an adequate pilot, good enough to get around and land without killing myself, but I still have plenty of close calls and every landing is still a shaky affair.

I just don't see the need to make it so complicated only a small handful of TOH/Arma expert pilots can actually enjoy helis. I think the vast majority of players still aren't full time clan guys who can have a few pilots readily available whenever they need.

TL;DR - Helis are fun. Don't make them so complex no one can enjoy them.

brings up the age-old argument in gaming, that i always answer with one simple expression. it's funny because it applies to almost every single argument about implementing incredibly hardcore realism into a game (note the choice of words there... game, not simulation. because while dayz might be geared towards a more hardcore crowd, it is still very much a game and not a simulator).

Gameplay > Realism

[jk_scowling 44]

I appreciate the point you make but I think flying a heli is difficult enough as it is. I haven't played TOH but I did watch that tutorial video and it shouldn't be that complicated just to take off.

It's true that right now anyone can just jump in a heli, hit the thrust, and get going, but I want to see someone land their first time without crashing. I quickly learned after losing a few characters to crashes to ask if a pilot has flight experience before jumping in with them. With the new maps helis aren't as rare as they were when it was just Chernarus and I've actually found a few recently. I don't think any flight lasted more than a minute before I crashed, usually just trying to land. I ended up pulling my old flight stick out of the closet, plugging it in for the first time in a few years, and loading up the armory to practice. About 5 hours of flight time later I feel like I'm an adequate pilot, good enough to get around and land without killing myself, but I still have plenty of close calls and every landing is still a shaky affair.

I just don't see the need to make it so complicated only a small handful of TOH/Arma expert pilots can actually enjoy helis. I think the vast majority of players still aren't full time clan guys who can have a few pilots readily available whenever they need.

TL;DR - Helis are fun. Don't make them so complex no one can enjoy them.

Dunno, might be good if heli's are difficult and take a while to learn. Not everyone is a pilot in real life, it's another way for players to specialise.

[Mr Nasty 1023]

Current flying mechanics are fine. No need to over complicate things.

[ruecanonrails 24]

What about players that dont have a clan, which in turn means harder to loot decent items and find vehicles. They will rarely get to fly a heli lettalone see one. How will they get to enjoy a helicopter the ONE day they finally do stumble across one?

If you are a good pilot, it will highly increase your chances of getting to fly simply because clans and groups will have the need to find a pilot. There could be a whole forum section where people pilots post their flying stats and their conditions on flying for groups. It doesnt mean you have to join or be part of a clan to fly, you just need to have the ability. Of course you are not going to learn how to fly in dayz, you learn to fly through practice in the normal game.

If they port helicopters from TOH, they will also have the extremely complicated start-up procedure.

The start up procedures may look complex at first but they are very easy and take no time at all. Battery > starter > wait a few seconds > increase throttle to idle > wait 15 seconds > release starter > wait several seconds > throttle to full. You are now ready to fly in 5 easy steps which can all be done in a lot less than 1 minute. a sticky note with the order of things to do beside your keyboard is enough to ensure you can take off.

brings up the age-old argument in gaming, that i always answer with one simple expression. it's funny because it applies to almost every single argument about implementing incredibly hardcore realism into a game (note the choice of words there... game, not simulation. because while dayz might be geared towards a more hardcore crowd, it is still very much a game and not a simulator).

Gameplay > Realism

Actually dayz is a survival simulator using the Real virtuality game engine which is designed for simulation and realism. If dayz were an arcade style game then flying and game mechanics should be simple. Look at how you pick up gear and move items in your bag. It's not as easy as running past it and pressing a button to have it magically teleport into your hands. You have to stop, look at it, crouch down then manually select and place them in your inventory.

Once again I'm more interested in finding out which difficulty they decide to go with when implementing the helicopter flight mechanics. If they allow the player to select the difficulty based on their skill then everyone will choose beginner training mode because it requires no skill and the helicopter flies it self without the need to worry about making adjustments to the trim.

As for the argument of finding people you can trust to fly your clan in and out of hostile locations. A sub forum section will most likely get created for known good pilots. For people like myself that spend time enjoying flight simulators there is more to flying a helicopter than going from point A to B.

Edited November 5, 2012 by painfulleap1

[walrus2517 27]

@painfulleap1 - It sounds like you are already an expert pilot so what seems easy for you to remember would still be very difficult to the average, or even above average DayZ player to recall. Plus, if it takes that much just to get in the air, I can only imagine how much more complicated everything else is, particularly landing. Yes DayZ is supposed to be somewhat of a simulator and it is built on a military sim, but it is meant to be accessible to the masses as well. You can argue for realism, but we're still talking about a zombie apocalypse with high grade military weapons all over the place, so you have to remember it's a game too.

There are other places for expert pilots to show off their skills, so I don't think making everything overly complex for the rest of us is the way to go. DayZ is a zombie game, not a flight sim.

[Pvt. Kairis 14]

I still find myself agreeing with the op, even though i cant fly well (I can take off/land and go point a to B) but choppers would be cool if u can adjust the flight controls in 1st person ie that video, although landing in 1stperson might be harder :P

[ruecanonrails 24]

I am far from an expert pilot. but anyone can pick up and learn basic maneuvers in only a couple hours of playing TOH.

as for landing in 1st person, it's not too bad as long as the helicopter is stable you can look down through small windows to ensure your not going to land on anything hazardous, you just ease it down gently watching your descent speed.

being in 1st person forces you to become aware of your surroundings and the chopper and do fly by to see if you can land somewhere before just landing.

anyone who likes flying or wants to try I highly recommend you check out the demo http://takeonthegame.com/take-on-helicopters-demo-download/

I'm not sure if Chernarus is available for the demo but if it is it's a lot of fun flying over your various base locations and trying to land on certain buildings in various types of helicopters.

If you decide to give it a try I recommend you do a single free flight on the easy difficulty to make sure your controls are set up in a way that works then crank it right up to expert and dive in with both feet. once you figure out how to gain control by adjusting the trim everything is pretty straight forward

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

As with everything else, I want the helicopter to be much harder to fly. I hope they use the system in TOH as it'll add that much more depth and challenge to the game. Right now, the flight system is way too easy.

Btw, if you haven't already, learn to fly in first person. It's much easier once you get used to it and a lot more fun. Also, anyone having trouble flying or anyone who wants to learn should fire up the ArmA 2 mission editor, plop in some choppers, and have at it. It's a good way to practice and you can quickly learn how each chopper handles.

[Lordsarito 42]

I appreciate the point you make but I think flying a heli is difficult enough as it is. I haven't played TOH but I did watch that tutorial video and it shouldn't be that complicated just to take off.

It's true that right now anyone can just jump in a heli, hit the thrust, and get going, but I want to see someone land their first time without crashing. I quickly learned after losing a few characters to crashes to ask if a pilot has flight experience before jumping in with them. With the new maps helis aren't as rare as they were when it was just Chernarus and I've actually found a few recently. I don't think any flight lasted more than a minute before I crashed, usually just trying to land. I ended up pulling my old flight stick out of the closet, plugging it in for the first time in a few years, and loading up the armory to practice. About 5 hours of flight time later I feel like I'm an adequate pilot, good enough to get around and land without killing myself, but I still have plenty of close calls and every landing is still a shaky affair.

I just don't see the need to make it so complicated only a small handful of TOH/Arma expert pilots can actually enjoy helis. I think the vast majority of players still aren't full time clan guys who can have a few pilots readily available whenever they need.

TL;DR - Helis are fun. Don't make them so complex no one can enjoy them.

Actually, helicopters are very to easy fly, it's just that you won't know how the first time.

Also, they are way too easy to fix up aswell.

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

Adding to this I think you should have to troubleshoot and identify any mechanical damage to vehicles and click on the parts to be repaired. When cleaning and maintaining the weapons there should be a exploded view and you need to click each part to clean and attach.

Yup realism yeah! Can you imagine the joys of skinning / butchering, doing medical procedures, digging the holes for your new base! Woo hoo that there is what i call fun!

[jdz (DayZ) 238]

Helicopters have no place in DayZ, they are far to powerful of a tool

[morgan32 403]

Me and my friend took a chopper once, I´ve never flied before, and he knew how to, but his buttons didn´t work so I was FORCED to fly. It took me 5 minutes of reading what he wrote on how to fly, and I just took off, flew to point and landed without ANY problems.

In my opinion, make flying advanced, very advanced. I´m not talking flying simulator 2013 here, but I would like to actually have to worry about surroundings, landing in slopes, buttons and levels in the helicopter that would adjust how it works. Just, basic stuff that wouldn´t just make it find a helicopter and fly away.

[ImageCtrl 719]

... About 5 hours of flight time later I feel like I'm an adequate pilot, good enough to get around and land without killing myself, ...

I just don't see the need to make it so complicated only a small handful of TOH/Arma expert pilots can actually enjoy helis.

About 5 hours of flight time later you will feel like an adequate pilot again. :) And PLUS, you fell like one of a small handful of TOH/Arma expert pilots. :lol:

[walrus2517 27]

The one control that makes choppers too easy is auto-hover, so I wouldn't mind that being taken out. Being able to switch on auto-hover does make landing far too simple.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is there needs to be a happy middle ground. You don't want a kid playing DayZ for the first time to be able to fly a heli with just his arrow keys, but I still disagree it should be something someone has to be an expert at just to do. I feel like a lot of the folks replying are clan or group players who know at least one good pilot, or the type of player who doesn't mind scouring the forums for a pilot, but the majority of players don't have the time to access all of these options. They just want to play the game, and, whether you agree with it or not, helicopters are part of the game.

The obvious solution, and hopefully one they can implement, is for the servers to be able to choose the flight mechanics. I imagine most would stick to the standard Arma mechanics but if some expert servers want to use the TOH mechanics go ahead.

[morgan32 403]

The one control that makes choppers too easy is auto-hover, so I wouldn't mind that being taken out. Being able to switch on auto-hover does make landing far too simple.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is there needs to be a happy middle ground. You don't want a kid playing DayZ for the first time to be able to fly a heli with just his arrow keys, but I still disagree it should be something someone has to be an expert at just to do. I feel like a lot of the folks replying are clan or group players who know at least one good pilot, or the type of player who doesn't mind scouring the forums for a pilot, but the majority of players don't have the time to access all of these options. They just want to play the game, and, whether you agree with it or not, helicopters are part of the game.

The obvious solution, and hopefully one they can implement, is for the servers to be able to choose the flight mechanics. I imagine most would stick to the standard Arma mechanics but if some expert servers want to use the TOH mechanics go ahead.

FYI, I'm a lonewolf and have always been, flying is just too simple.

[walrus2517 27]

About 5 hours of flight time later you will feel like an adequate pilot again. :) And PLUS, you fell like one of a small handful of TOH/Arma expert pilots. :lol:

Nah, the first two hours was just frustration trying to fly with a mouse. I finally gave up and dusted off my flight stick. I will add that my initial influence to learn flying was watching some of the large Arma battles on youtube, where they are limited to first person, so I learned to fly without using 3rd person. I also tried to learn to land without using auto-hover, but in DayZ the risk of crash is too great so I still use it in the mod.

As for "expert" status, I flew the other day with an expert pilot in Namalsk, riding as he dipped between treelines and landed quickly and smoothly without auto-hover. I've seen them fly on youtube. After 5 hours of training and 30-45 minutes of actually flying in the mod, I"m giving myself "mediocre" status at best. :)

Edited November 6, 2012 by walrus2517

[ruecanonrails 24]

Adding to this I think you should have to troubleshoot and identify any mechanical damage to vehicles and click on the parts to be repaired. When cleaning and maintaining the weapons there should be a exploded view and you need to click each part to clean and attach.

Yup realism yeah! Can you imagine the joys of skinning / butchering, doing medical procedures, digging the holes for your new base! Woo hoo that there is what i call fun!

That would make for an amazing game if you ask me, you need to repair a broken leg and a trauma center mini game starts haha I would play the hell out of that game

Digging holes for my new base would mean I can hide it a lot better than it is now. A rate of failure could be applied to everything with a mini game associated with each action you want to gut an animal for meat run your mouse through a maze if you hit the side you get less meat or no meat.

It was also talked about a long time ago about adding in durability for weapons and having them jam if not taken care of.

The one control that makes choppers too easy is auto-hover, so I wouldn't mind that being taken out. Being able to switch on auto-hover does make landing far too simple.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is there needs to be a happy middle ground. You don't want a kid playing DayZ for the first time to be able to fly a heli with just his arrow keys, but I still disagree it should be something someone has to be an expert at just to do. I feel like a lot of the folks replying are clan or group players who know at least one good pilot, or the type of player who doesn't mind scouring the forums for a pilot, but the majority of players don't have the time to access all of these options. They just want to play the game, and, whether you agree with it or not, helicopters are part of the game.

The obvious solution, and hopefully one they can implement, is for the servers to be able to choose the flight mechanics. I imagine most would stick to the standard Arma mechanics but if some expert servers want to use the TOH mechanics go ahead.

I think your missing the point between choosing arma 2 flight mechanics and the ones in take on helicopters. It has been stated by the dev team that the dayz standalone will use the flight mechanics from take on helicopters. it wont be an option to use the old one. What hasn't been said is what difficulty they will use, maybe the difficulty will be selected by the server.

as for auto hover... That I can see staying in the game, it's available even on expert in take on helicopters. Sure it makes it easy to land and take off, but it is realistic to an extent. Most if not all military helicopters have an auto pilot/hover ability as a feature. Now there is more limitation to them than is portrayed in the game the big on is that it can only be initiated when your moving very slow and have come to a hover already unlike currently where you can enable it anytime and it will bring you to a halt.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Helicopters have no place in DayZ, they are far to powerful of a tool

Which is one reason why they should be much harder to repair and fly. They have a place but they shouldn't be easy.

Nah, the first two hours was just frustration trying to fly with a mouse. I finally gave up and dusted off my flight stick. I will add that my initial influence to learn flying was watching some of the large Arma battles on youtube, where they are limited to first person, so I learned to fly without using 3rd person. I also tried to learn to land without using auto-hover, but in DayZ the risk of crash is too great so I still use it in the mod.

As for "expert" status, I flew the other day with an expert pilot in Namalsk, riding as he dipped between treelines and landed quickly and smoothly without auto-hover. I've seen them fly on youtube. After 5 hours of training and 30-45 minutes of actually flying in the mod, I"m giving myself "mediocre" status at best. :)

There's your problem there. All the controls are on the keyboard. It's extremely easy. I imagine a flight stick would be nice if calibrated correctly with tons of hours of experience but anyone can easily fly using a keyboard without much experience at all. Too easy in fact.

Edited November 6, 2012 by SausageKingofChicago